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Another patch gone by, another week of 32 bit Launcher

Carmina
Carmina
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As the title said... Game was patched today, but we still have a 32 bit Launcher. Sad.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    Why is it sad? The launcher is only needed for patches and news. Most of us never use it to launch the game.

    I would go so far as to say, using the launcher to.launch the game is sad. Or at least a waste of time.
    Edited by Nestor on August 12, 2019 2:02PM
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • SantieClaws
    SantieClaws
    Community Ambassador
    Indeed. A shortcut directly to the Eeksey thing is where it is at yes.

    Yours with paws
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  • nathan_bri
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    To top it off, my launcher had some type of manifest error when starting up. I followed the advice to repair the client, after which the launcher decided to re-download the entire game, causing my ZoS folder to eat up 151 gigs of hard drive for the time being and causing TechTool Protection to throw all sorts of low disk storage warnings. So, thanks for that, ZoS.

    3gvx40aiqv4c.png
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    Edited by nathan_bri on August 12, 2019 2:18PM
  • nathan_bri
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    I brain-farted and closed the launcher for some reason and thought, “Doh!” and reopened it. No errors this time and it happily applied the patch that it probably downloaded two hours ago without continuing to re-download the entire game. Now the ZoS folder is at 84.39 gigs. I really hope they replace this outdated and buggy launcher soon. Then fix all the Mac issues with ESO, although I am not holding my breath. It’s fine. I have many other games to play if ZoS doesn’t want me to subscribe.
    Edited by nathan_bri on August 12, 2019 2:28PM
  • nathan_bri
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    Except that clicking Play in the launcher gives me this new fun hell. This Mac client and launcher are hot garbage. Time to do another repair and see if the game wants to again re-download from scratch.
    9c9gohpx5wxc.png
    Edited by nathan_bri on August 12, 2019 2:26PM
  • nathan_bri
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    And... repair complete and... time to re-download the whole game. Ha ha ha ha ha. This is ridiculous. I think it’s time to take a break from ESO indefinitely. Screw the daily “gift” incentive to log in for one minute even. It’s just not worth it.

    EDIT: I just deleted the ZoS folder from Applications. That feels so much better.

    f6v5qtjhe02f.png
    Edited by nathan_bri on August 12, 2019 2:43PM
  • vamp_emily
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    If your installer gets stuck during the install, the best thing to do is just reboot your computer and it should start installing again. Don't repair/install until you have tried that.

    One issue I had a while back is the "out of storage warning". This message is sooooo annoying. The game requires ( i'm guessing ) 60 to 80 gigs of space. I had at least 100 gigs available when I tried doing a fresh install. I kept getting the "not enough storage" error after the game was almost finished downloading. I tried repairing but that didn't work.. i tried re-installing a few times and that didn't work.

    I ended up putting ESO on my d drive which had 250 gigs of free space and then moving the files to my c drive ( solid-state drive ).

    Edited by vamp_emily on August 12, 2019 3:01PM

    If you want a friend, get a dog.

  • nathan_bri
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    vamp_emily wrote: »
    If your installer gets stuck during the install, the best thing to do is just reboot your computer and it should start installing again. Don't repair/install until you have tried that.

    One issue I had a while back is the "out of storage warning". This message is sooooo annoying. The game requires ( i'm guessing ) 60 to 80 gigs of space. I had at least 100 gigs available when I tried doing a fresh install. I kept getting the "not enough storage" error after the game was almost finished downloading. I tried repairing but that didn't work.. i tried re-installing a few times and that didn't work.

    I ended up putting ESO on my d drive which had 250 gigs of free space and then moving the files to my c drive ( solid-state drive ).

    Yeah... none of that matters to me now because I tossed the game off my drive. I’ll circle back if and when they figure out how to develop for the Mac again.
  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
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    Nestor wrote: »
    Why is it sad? The launcher is only needed for patches and news. Most of us never use it to launch the game.

    I would go so far as to say, using the launcher to.launch the game is sad. Or at least a waste of time.
    Sad as with Catalina each time new patch is released you need to install whole game one more time. Oh, wait... in order to install it you need a working launcher...
  • Carmina
    Carmina
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    Hm. It seems there seriously was the question why you need the launcher, and why it is sad that it has not been updated.

    Actually, I am not even going to go there anymore. It has been said and explained so many times why, that I wonder how people can even not know why the Launcher is so important.

    *sigh*

    C.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    Nestor wrote: »
    Why is it sad? The launcher is only needed for patches and news. Most of us never use it to launch the game.

    I would go so far as to say, using the launcher to.launch the game is sad. Or at least a waste of time.
    Sad as with Catalina each time new patch is released you need to install whole game one more time. Oh, wait... in order to install it you need a working launcher...

    I never have to do that. Nor does anyone else. Been playing since Beta.

    Just reboot your.machine. it will resolve this.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • SirAndy
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    Carmina wrote: »
    Actually, I am not even going to go there anymore. It has been said and explained so many times why, that I wonder how people can even not know why the Launcher is so important.

    There is absolutely no benefit what-so-ever to have the launcher in 64-bit. None ...
    shades.gif

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  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
    alterfenixeb17_ESO
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    Nestor wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    Why is it sad? The launcher is only needed for patches and news. Most of us never use it to launch the game.

    I would go so far as to say, using the launcher to.launch the game is sad. Or at least a waste of time.
    Sad as with Catalina each time new patch is released you need to install whole game one more time. Oh, wait... in order to install it you need a working launcher...

    I never have to do that. Nor does anyone else. Been playing since Beta.

    Just reboot your.machine. it will resolve this.
    So rebooting will restore support for 32 bit apps?:-)

  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    Nestor wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    Why is it sad? The launcher is only needed for patches and news. Most of us never use it to launch the game.

    I would go so far as to say, using the launcher to.launch the game is sad. Or at least a waste of time.
    Sad as with Catalina each time new patch is released you need to install whole game one more time. Oh, wait... in order to install it you need a working launcher...

    I never have to do that. Nor does anyone else. Been playing since Beta.

    Just reboot your.machine. it will resolve this.
    So rebooting will restore support for 32 bit apps?:-)

    You don't really know how programs work...
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • smacx250
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    Carmina wrote: »
    Actually, I am not even going to go there anymore. It has been said and explained so many times why, that I wonder how people can even not know why the Launcher is so important.

    There is absolutely no benefit what-so-ever to have the launcher in 64-bit. None ...
    shades.gif

    The benefit of a 64 bit launcher is that it will run on macOS 10.15, which is being released this fall (public beta now). No 64 bit, no go.

    Edit: Fix OS version for Catalina
    Edited by smacx250 on August 13, 2019 12:21AM
  • SirAndy
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    smacx250 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Carmina wrote: »
    Actually, I am not even going to go there anymore. It has been said and explained so many times why, that I wonder how people can even not know why the Launcher is so important.
    There is absolutely no benefit what-so-ever to have the launcher in 64-bit. None ...
    shades.gif
    The benefit of a 64 bit launcher is that it will run on macOS 13, which is being released this fall (public beta now). No 64 bit, no go.
    That makes no damn sense. MAC OS is Linux under the hood and any 64-bit Linux OS can run 32-bit apps.

    There's a gazillion 32-bit apps and libraries for the Mac, why in the world would they try to prevent them from running?
    confused24.gif
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  • smacx250
    smacx250
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    smacx250 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Carmina wrote: »
    Actually, I am not even going to go there anymore. It has been said and explained so many times why, that I wonder how people can even not know why the Launcher is so important.
    There is absolutely no benefit what-so-ever to have the launcher in 64-bit. None ...
    shades.gif
    The benefit of a 64 bit launcher is that it will run on macOS 13, which is being released this fall (public beta now). No 64 bit, no go.
    That makes no damn sense. MAC OS is Linux under the hood and any 64-bit Linux OS can run 32-bit apps.

    There's a gazillion 32-bit apps and libraries for the Mac, why in the world would they try to prevent them from running?
    confused24.gif
    In short, so they don't have to continue to develop, validate, and support the 32 bit OS libraries, frameworks, and tools that 32 bit apps require. It costs them $$$. They already killed 32 bit on iOS, and they've decided that the time for macOS has come (and have warned about it for years now). And no, macOS isn't Linux, so the OS isn't being developed "for free" by the open source community.
  • SirAndy
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    smacx250 wrote: »
    And no, macOS isn't Linux, so the OS isn't being developed "for free" by the open source community.

    I work with MACs on a daily basis as a developer. Yes, the MAC OS is based on Linux, looks like Linux, walks like Linux and talks like Linux.

    Kicking 32-bit from the OS is going to hurt them badly, at least as far as the developer community is concerned. We have several hundred developers at my company and most of them have MAC laptops. We build, compile, debug apps of all sorts on a daily basis, many of which are 32-bit. We do a lot of work for the automotive industry, TV industry and the music industry where 32-bit ARM processors are the current standard for a lot of hardware.
    shades.gif
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  • smacx250
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    smacx250 wrote: »
    And no, macOS isn't Linux, so the OS isn't being developed "for free" by the open source community.

    Yes, the MAC OS is based on Linux, looks like Linux, walks like Linux and talks like Linux.
    macOS is based on NEXTSTEP (which predates Linux), which was based on BSD. Linux is its own thing - written "from scratch" as open source.

    Unix_history-simple.png

    SirAndy wrote: »
    Kicking 32-bit from the OS is going to hurt them badly, at least as far as the developer community is concerned. We have several hundred developers at my company and most of them have MAC laptops. We build, compile, debug apps of all sorts on a daily basis, many of which are 32-bit. We do a lot of work for the automotive industry, TV industry and the music industry where 32-bit ARM processors are the current standard for a lot of hardware.
    Yes - for now, use Linux in a VM, and if you don't like that, then don't buy a Mac next time. And no, I am not happy about this at all.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    @smacx250

    It looks like there is a lot of Unix DNA in the OS, so Inbred might be the better term... B)
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • SirAndy
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    smacx250 wrote: »
    Yes - for now, use Linux in a VM, and if you don't like that, then don't buy a Mac next time. And no, I am not happy about this at all.
    Linux VM on a Linux based system, sounds like a great solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
    wacko.gif

    As for not buying a Mac, tell that to our IT department.
    1500 employees in offices all around the world, 50000 if you count the parent company.

    Sadly not much choice for the laptops, but i did get to build my own desktop (Windows 10) from a bunch of leftover server parts.

    Oh well, i guess i won't be upgrading that laptop for a while.
    dry.gif

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  • jluchau
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    Carmina wrote: »
    As the title said... Game was patched today, but we still have a 32 bit Launcher. Sad.

    I'm not sure why this is a surprise to anyone or worth making a new thread about. The very last thing they said was pretty clear on the subject.
    Hi everyone, just letting you know we are working on making sure the 64-bit launcher is functional for when Catalina officially launches.

    OFFICIALLY LAUNCHES... till that happens I wouldn't expect any update on the launcher. But, I know you already knew this because this quote comes from your previous thread on the same subject.

    I want the update too, I wasn't thinking and updated my rig to catalina and haven't been able to play the game for weeks. I could get the game to launch without the actual launcher for a while but that started failing too... so I'm just stuck till it gets fixed, but thats my fault. They have been pretty clear when they will update.
  • Carmina
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    All nice and good, @jluchau. But.

    As I said before (and yes, this thread is just to show to ZOS people are here waiting for it, so call me a primitive jerk, I assure you I can live with that):

    1. The Launcher in 64 bit will be a new app. I expect it to not work from the get go. So, throwing that new Launcher out there the day Catalina is released is not a good idea.

    2. I doubt the Launcher will be out there at all on release day.

    As stated before, the information was out there for more than a year, ZOS did not give a ***.

    C.
  • Carmina
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    Also, one more thing regarding that previous discussion as to the underlying operating system.

    Linux is a Unix OS. Unix is the term we are looking for here, not BSD, not NeXTStep, not Linux.

    It is Windows (or, if you want to be truthful, DOS) vs. Unix. Easiest way to see the difference: Look at the way drives (hard drives, USB Sticks, DVD, whatever) are integrated in Windows, and how in Unix.

    If you start a Mac Terminal, it will tell you it is FreeBSD, which is a Unix derivate, like all the other stuff you know (Ubuntu, Redhat, you name it).

    The reason Apple is dropping 64 bit support (which is nothing more than a setting somewhere telling the OS that this app is not supported, as it is technically correct that Unix does not have any problems running 32 bit apps)* is as was stated before. It is a lot easier to stick to one system, support it and develop for it. Also, Apple has a history of pushing for new technologies and throwing away old stuff. There are tons of examples for that.

    Hardware:
    USB on the first iMac
    No DVD-drives in laptops
    USB-C on the first Macbook 12"

    Software:
    MacOS (which was completely thrown overboard in favour of OSX (now MacOS)).
    Final Cut Pro (which was the industry leader and being thrown away at the height of its usage, to be replaced by something completely new)

    In the end, it is how it is, there will be no 32 bit apps supported in Catalina, and if you look at the list of Mac apps running on your Mac right now, you will notice that 100% of them are 64 bit (unless you run ESO, because the Launcher will be the one app being 32 bit).

    Finally, one word about virtualisation: Yes, there are tools like VMWare or VirtualBox on the Mac. But these tools will never work for games, since hardware acceleration of 3D Video will never satisfactorily work through virtualisation. So, you can use Bootcamp and run Windows 10 on a Mac natively. But who would want that? People use a Mac to get away from the Windows/DOs catastrophe.

    (Apologies foire this long post)

    C.

    * I just read about this, and it seems I was wrong. It has been stated by Apple that 64 bit apps use a different way to address memory space, which is true. It has also been stated that all overhead regarding addressing 32 bit memory space is being removed from macOS. So, it is not a simple switch, but actually a part/problem of the OS.
    Edited by Carmina on August 13, 2019 9:17AM
  • nathan_bri
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    smacx250 wrote: »
    And no, macOS isn't Linux, so the OS isn't being developed "for free" by the open source community.

    I work with MACs on a daily basis as a developer. Yes, the MAC OS is based on Linux, looks like Linux, walks like Linux and talks like Linux.

    You work with Macs on a daily basis as a developer, yet you still refer to them as MACs, with all capitals, and think they are based on Linux? You either are not a very good developer or you a spinning a false tale here.
    Edited by nathan_bri on August 13, 2019 12:13PM
  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
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    Nestor wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    Why is it sad? The launcher is only needed for patches and news. Most of us never use it to launch the game.

    I would go so far as to say, using the launcher to.launch the game is sad. Or at least a waste of time.
    Sad as with Catalina each time new patch is released you need to install whole game one more time. Oh, wait... in order to install it you need a working launcher...

    I never have to do that. Nor does anyone else. Been playing since Beta.

    Just reboot your.machine. it will resolve this.
    So rebooting will restore support for 32 bit apps?:-)

    You don't really know how programs work...

    Happened that I do know and it seems that I know better than you do. Now let me state a 2 facts:

    - 64 bit system can run by default only 64 bit apps unless running other architecture is explicitly supported by kernel - with Catalina that support is dropped.
    - 32 bit apps require 32 bit environment (mostly libraries - both static at compilation time as well as dynamic at runtime) - with Catalina all 32 bit libraries by Apple are dropped. No need for those since system cannot properly open those anymore.

    With those above 32 bit launcher will NOT start EVER if user uses Catalina. It will not patch the game, it will not allow to install the game. If you claim that doing a simple reboot will resolve anything and suddenly will allow starting 32 bit apps in Catalina then you obviously do not know what you are trying to talk about.
  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
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    Carmina wrote: »
    Hardware:
    USB on the first iMac
    No DVD-drives in laptops
    USB-C on the first Macbook 12"

    You have forgotten here the most important change for Macs so far: PowerPC to x86. x86 was introduced with Leopard in 2007 while support for PowerPC dropped in 2011 with Lion (but effectively it happened earlier with Snow Leopard so 2009). This was at most 4 years to make even bigger adaptation as PPC was completely different architecture than x86 and x64/AMD64 which is just derived from x86 by comparison. Did it kill Macs? No.

    Now with upcoming change also just a reminder: x64 was introduced in parallel with x86. Just 64 bit kernel was by default disabled. With Lion or ML (do not recall it now which in which one) Apple disabled by default 32 bit kernel and enabled 64 bit environment - actual grace period for developers started. So 7 - 8 years later (yes, this is how much ZOS had for adaptation btw) it is expected that Apple may want to drop finally obsolete platform support and company is not really here guilty that some 3rd party developers / companies slack on doing their job.
    Edited by alterfenixeb17_ESO on August 13, 2019 5:23PM
  • SirAndy
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    nathan_bri wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    smacx250 wrote: »
    And no, macOS isn't Linux, so the OS isn't being developed "for free" by the open source community.
    I work with MACs on a daily basis as a developer. Yes, the MAC OS is based on Linux, looks like Linux, walks like Linux and talks like Linux.
    You work with Macs on a daily basis as a developer, yet you still refer to them as MACs, with all capitals, and think they are based on Linux? You either are not a very good developer or you a spinning a false tale here.

    No spinning needed. Been doing this since before you were born. In fact been doing this since long before there was a LINUX. Been working with UNIX since the '70s. Been working with MACs since they were new. Owned one of the first SPARC workstations ever built.

    FreeBSD "copied" a lot of stuff from Linux (which came a good 2 years earlier). I know, i was there ...
    type.gif

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  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    - 64 bit system can run by default only 64 bit apps unless running other architecture is explicitly supported by kernel - with Catalina that support is dropped.
    - 32 bit apps require 32 bit environment (mostly libraries - both static at compilation time as well as dynamic at runtime) - with Catalina all 32 bit libraries by Apple are dropped. No need for those since system cannot properly open those anymore.

    With those above 32 bit launcher will NOT start EVER if user uses Catalina. It will not patch the game, it will not allow to install the game. If you claim that doing a simple reboot will resolve anything and suddenly will allow starting 32 bit apps in Catalina then you obviously do not know what you are trying to talk about.

    Oh, your talking about Apples and a brand new OS that was just introduced a couple of months ago. I was talking about all those other computers. It would be nice if they do create support for the Catalina, but the OS has only been out a couple of months. And, given the limitation of no 32 Bit, I don't see this as being a huge OS for Apple right away.

    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
    alterfenixeb17_ESO
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    Nestor wrote: »
    - 64 bit system can run by default only 64 bit apps unless running other architecture is explicitly supported by kernel - with Catalina that support is dropped.
    - 32 bit apps require 32 bit environment (mostly libraries - both static at compilation time as well as dynamic at runtime) - with Catalina all 32 bit libraries by Apple are dropped. No need for those since system cannot properly open those anymore.

    With those above 32 bit launcher will NOT start EVER if user uses Catalina. It will not patch the game, it will not allow to install the game. If you claim that doing a simple reboot will resolve anything and suddenly will allow starting 32 bit apps in Catalina then you obviously do not know what you are trying to talk about.

    Oh, your talking about Apples and a brand new OS that was just introduced a couple of months ago. I was talking about all those other computers. It would be nice if they do create support for the Catalina, but the OS has only been out a couple of months. And, given the limitation of no 32 Bit, I don't see this as being a huge OS for Apple right away.
    Actually you may be surprised. I have just look on my apps and it seems that the only ones not ready for Catalina are The Elder Scrolls Online (that's the case we are talking about) and Steam. So why should I really not go for it especially that system introduced a few nice things and even more such as Apple TV+ (which on Macs will require Catalina, make no mistake about that). I just don't see much of the reason.

    Just take switch from PowerPC as an example - people complained and yet Lion was not a failure at all. In fact the opposite as due to change in Lion pricing most actually gave up on Snow Leopard. And then there was a barrier of no App Store in Snow Leopard + still cost of upgrade (19 USD if I remember correctly). Now there is App Store + no costs at all. And system that outside of dropping 32 bit apps people seem to be curious about in general and eager to try it. More than Lion back in a day.

    Also needless to say that lack of support for Catalina just 1 month before launch puts ZOS in a very bad light especially that competition did that already years ago. Simple as that.
    Edited by alterfenixeb17_ESO on August 15, 2019 9:01AM
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