Toxic Behaviour in ESO

buttaface · August 2019

Let's replace the hackneyed, overused term "toxic" with "offensive" as pertains to this topic. Others have pointed out accurately that "toxic" behavior goes beyond mere offensiveness, which is entirely subjective, to objectively bad play with the specific intent to harass or disrupt the game experience of others.

Then the question becomes, if one finds certain things offensive to the point of complaining about it in a place like this, how can that kind of delicate sensibility enjoy playing games based on mass slaughter? Therein lies a stark inconsistency, an unworkable one IMO.

Choosing to play games based on mass slaughter and then complaining about emotes or even offensive text chat is obvious hypocrisy.

Rave the Histborn · August 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Fortnite community is still better than this cesspool of a thread when it comes to doing something about toxicity, literally. Haven’t seen one article about the eso community trying to stop it, in fact it seems like the majority on the forums are glad to let it continue.

I think a lot of us are adults with more important thing to do than worry about what people say in an online video game.

Uh huh and whoopdido I’m an adult too.

It’s not that special.

Well I mean, I think once you hit adulthood you should be over bad words on the internet

Derbforgaill · August 2019

Woeler wrote: »

You seemed to have missed your own

Again, the point is that you are missing the other sentences.

Derbforgaill · August 2019

SocialAssassin wrote: »

Game companies want this toxicity in this game to be completely honest. I read this article years ago. And it stated if your game doesn't go "toxic" your basically doing something wrong. But toxicity means people are playing the game. And that's all game companies really care about at the end of the day. Because if they got rid of the toxic players? There would be barely anyone let to play their game. To toxic players is a necessity.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-06-27-toxic-players-are-necessary-says-orcs-must-die-dev

Well, that was a weird take/read

But I guess some people in the industry do think that, seeing how the behaviour is not addressed.

Radiance · August 2019

I have experienced some of the toxic behaviors you've mentioned and may have perpetrated a few myself on occasion aside from the slurs, I detest a racist. I don't harass or bully although I do tend to pick fights with those types and have finally begun to utilize the Ignore Feature for Trolls but on the other hand... some people are just Whiners and if they see that someone is continuously makin multiple complaints, perhaps they have concluded the problem is You and ignoring you IS their response...

Rave the Histborn · August 2019

Derbforgaill wrote: »

SocialAssassin wrote: »

Game companies want this toxicity in this game to be completely honest. I read this article years ago. And it stated if your game doesn't go "toxic" your basically doing something wrong. But toxicity means people are playing the game. And that's all game companies really care about at the end of the day. Because if they got rid of the toxic players? There would be barely anyone let to play their game. To toxic players is a necessity.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-06-27-toxic-players-are-necessary-says-orcs-must-die-dev

Well, that was a weird take/read But I guess some people in the industry do think that, seeing how the behaviour is not addressed.

It's because "toxicitiy" as it's labeled is really just normal competitive nature of most males. That's why you see games like LoL losing players as they implement more restrictions on it. As it becomes more inclusive (chat restrictions, nerfing skills/playstyles, artificially producing problems to artificially fix) the competitive nature is lost and it leads to the "toxic" players leaving to seek more competitive games instead.

HalvarIronfist · August 2019

Edaphon wrote: »

At least 90% of the 'toxic behaviour' isn't toxic at all. It's just people being overly sensitive.

This game is not conceivably toxic IMO. Sure, there's a few rude people here and there, but have you ever played Rust? If you want to complain about a toxic game, start there.

Liam12548 wrote: »

Maybe try not getting offended by anonymous people on the internet. That works pretty well for me.

But that doesn't cater to people without common sense.

VaranisArano · August 2019

Two things ZOS could actually do:

1. Make Ignore go both ways. If you have soneone ignored, you don't get to message them hate tells anyway.

2. Make Ignore work for groupfinder. If someone is toxic, you don't have to group with them in future BGs or dungeons. If someone is toxic enough, they can sit in queue waiting for teammates.

The rest of it is ZOS' decision on how to enforce their own TOS. Players can Report it, Ignore it, and move on.

mongoLC · August 2019

Stop being snowflakes and press ignore. Not everyone in life is nice and nothing is fair. Sooner you realize that the better.

Thannazzar · August 2019

As long as someone isn't threatening or advocating real world violence then It's just the Internet. If you take offence then be offended. Nothing happens, no-one in history has successfully argued "last night I was on the Internet and someone made a comment and I was offended and when I woke up the next morning I had leprosy!"

The easiest way to deal with toxic chat is to turn off general chat in game.

Anyone who expects to live in a free and open society but expects never to be offended is clearly of limited intelligence.

Hallothiel · August 2019

Tbagging in pvp is done for a variety of reasons. My pvp guild will take time out to tbag each other if you died due to being rubbish.It’s just an amusing thing - but most of us are British & so live for the sarky banter without taking offence. Members have chased down or messaged other players if they WEREN’T considered ‘bag-worthy’!

But they would not put up with genuine offensive behaviour. Thats why i love them.

jircris11 · August 2019

Derbforgaill wrote: »

I think anyone that has played ESO for long enough has experienced toxic behaviour: from tea-bagging to slurs on chat. (I would include bots in that category, but that's a different talk.)

So far, I have obtained very negative experiences from reporting toxic behaviours from ZOS. No feedback, no follow-through... I get the reason they provide to not informing about the results of complaints (aka: maintain the privacy of the other player(s)) but there have been actual cases where ZOS should have gotten back to me and didn't. For example, I recorded cheating in a BG (a video), but you can't upload it to a complaint in-game. So I just mentioned that I had recorded everything and that I'd be happy to send the video via whatever format they needed. Of course, I never got a response aside from the usual "we received your complaint".

Listening to an episode of the Psychology of Video Games Podcast on this very issue and how some game companies of online games deal with it was rather enraging to see what other companies do when compared to ZOS. A full team dedicated to investigating toxic behaviour, coming up with new ways of regulating this behaviour and creating a more friendly environment...

How do you think toxic behaviour could be dealt with in ESO?

Sadly welcome to multiplayer games in general. Just shows how crappy we are as a species.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · August 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Derbforgaill wrote: »

I think anyone that has played ESO for long enough has experienced toxic behaviour: from tea-bagging to slurs on chat. (I would include bots in that category, but that's a different talk.)

So far, I have obtained very negative experiences from reporting toxic behaviours from ZOS. No feedback, no follow-through... I get the reason they provide to not informing about the results of complaints (aka: maintain the privacy of the other player(s)) but there have been actual cases where ZOS should have gotten back to me and didn't. For example, I recorded cheating in a BG (a video), but you can't upload it to a complaint in-game. So I just mentioned that I had recorded everything and that I'd be happy to send the video via whatever format they needed. Of course, I never got a response aside from the usual "we received your complaint".

Listening to an episode of the Psychology of Video Games Podcast on this very issue and how some game companies of online games deal with it was rather enraging to see what other companies do when compared to ZOS. A full team dedicated to investigating toxic behaviour, coming up with new ways of regulating this behaviour and creating a more friendly environment...

How do you think toxic behaviour could be dealt with in ESO?

Sadly welcome to multiplayer games in general. Just shows how crappy we are as a species.

I’d make a “no wonder other life forms don’t visit this planet’” joke but

Playnice · August 2019

Derbforgaill wrote: »

I think anyone that has played ESO for long enough has experienced toxic behaviour: from tea-bagging to slurs on chat. (I would include bots in that category, but that's a different talk.)

So far, I have obtained very negative experiences from reporting toxic behaviours from ZOS. No feedback, no follow-through... I get the reason they provide to not informing about the results of complaints (aka: maintain the privacy of the other player(s)) but there have been actual cases where ZOS should have gotten back to me and didn't. For example, I recorded cheating in a BG (a video), but you can't upload it to a complaint in-game. So I just mentioned that I had recorded everything and that I'd be happy to send the video via whatever format they needed. Of course, I never got a response aside from the usual "we received your complaint".

Listening to an episode of the Psychology of Video Games Podcast on this very issue and how some game companies of online games deal with it was rather enraging to see what other companies do when compared to ZOS. A full team dedicated to investigating toxic behaviour, coming up with new ways of regulating this behaviour and creating a more friendly environment...

How do you think toxic behaviour could be dealt with in ESO?

Sounds like you complain too much. You are playing an MMORPG; lots of different people and personalities. What else did you expect, honestly?

Dragonnord · August 2019

mongoLC wrote: »

Stop being snowflakes and press ignore. Not everyone in life is nice and nothing is fair. Sooner you realize that the better.

The only thing you get from pressing Ignore is giving the other guy freedom to talk sh$%&it about you in zone chat, etc. without you knowing about it (because you then can't see what he/she says). Happens all the time in PvP.

It's like me telling everyone bad things about you in public chat and you have no clue I'm doing it.

Berserkerkitten · August 2019

Dragonnord wrote: »

mongoLC wrote: »

Stop being snowflakes and press ignore. Not everyone in life is nice and nothing is fair. Sooner you realize that the better.

The only thing you get from pressing Ignore is giving the other guy freedom to talk sh$%&it about you in zone chat, etc. without you knowing about it (because you then can't see what he/she says). Happens all the time in PvP.

It's like me telling everyone bad things about you in public chat and you have no clue I'm doing it.

And how insecure do you have to be to care? Seriously. NOBODY even reads that garbage people spout about other people in pvp zone chat, because we're too busy PvPing.

Dragonnord · August 2019

Berserkerkitten wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

mongoLC wrote: »

Stop being snowflakes and press ignore. Not everyone in life is nice and nothing is fair. Sooner you realize that the better.

The only thing you get from pressing Ignore is giving the other guy freedom to talk sh$%&it about you in zone chat, etc. without you knowing about it (because you then can't see what he/she says). Happens all the time in PvP.

It's like me telling everyone bad things about you in public chat and you have no clue I'm doing it.

And how insecure do you have to be to care? Seriously. NOBODY even reads that garbage people spout about other people in pvp zone chat, because we're too busy PvPing.

Clearly you don't PvP. In PvP people talk more in chat than what they PvP. Half players are jumping around shrines or idle in bases reading and talking in chat.

And I wasn't talking about PvP only anyways.

Besides, situation is that the other person CAN STILL CONTINUE to tell, say, do whatever against you, only that now you don't know about it.

You don't care people talking sh$%$it about you? Good for you then.

SocialAssassin · August 2019

Derbforgaill wrote: »

I think anyone that has played ESO for long enough has experienced toxic behaviour: from tea-bagging to slurs on chat. (I would include bots in that category, but that's a different talk.)

So far, I have obtained very negative experiences from reporting toxic behaviours from ZOS. No feedback, no follow-through... I get the reason they provide to not informing about the results of complaints (aka: maintain the privacy of the other player(s)) but there have been actual cases where ZOS should have gotten back to me and didn't. For example, I recorded cheating in a BG (a video), but you can't upload it to a complaint in-game. So I just mentioned that I had recorded everything and that I'd be happy to send the video via whatever format they needed. Of course, I never got a response aside from the usual "we received your complaint".

Listening to an episode of the Psychology of Video Games Podcast on this very issue and how some game companies of online games deal with it was rather enraging to see what other companies do when compared to ZOS. A full team dedicated to investigating toxic behaviour, coming up with new ways of regulating this behaviour and creating a more friendly environment...

How do you think toxic behavior
could be dealt with in ESO?

If you really want to talk about "toxicity" in ESO why don't you start with these very forums?
And how could you deal with it? Just simply don't allow the behavior in the first place. And also consider adopting a "zero-tolerance" policy would help too. But then you would enforce it.

idk · August 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS isn't going to give you the follow up you want. The privacy of the other players is a lot more important than your need to feel vindicated or whatever.

Now, when it comes to things like "I have video!", go ahead and reply to the message they send you with the video attached. When I've had to report people for their user name or racist comments in chat, I attach the screenshots to that initial message as a follow-up, that way I've made a full report. I do not expect ZOS to tell me the results.

Pretty much this. When reporting behavior like cheating in other games the reply I get is that they are looking into it but will not respond. In many areas they could be in violation of privacy laws if they did tell you the punished XYZ in a certain manner.

As the podcast you mention, you just provide some generic information that is insufficient for us to comment on.

I ignore those who make toxic comments in game. I do not put them on my ignore list. but I do not reply. I find that by just moving on they tend to move on themselves. Basically, I do not feed the trolls.

geonsocal · August 2019

read in one of the comments that pvp play is the cause of toxic behavior...

when i was a kid zelda used to get me in a rage...tetris had me breaking *** all over the place...

it's not the "competition", it's the ability to communicate...

some folks have trouble communicating with others in general...throw some bad feelings on top of that, and yeah, things can get dicey...

Minyassa · August 2019

I would give up on expecting anything of ZOS. They seem to actively promote conflict between players. The very design of a lot of things in PvE that should not be competitive or provide an easy method of griefing points to actually encouraging social discord. You'd be better off spending your time trying to develop psychic powers that would allow you to explode people's heads remotely. Even the fantasy there is more satisfying than anything ZOS will do about people being raging butt holes for no reason.

FlipFlopFrog · August 2019

This is why there's a code of conduct, If someone breaks the code of conduct then action can be taken and that person will be punished for breaking the rules. If they haven't though, I'm sorry to say but it really is just a case of growing a thicker skin.

msalvia · August 2019

Actually, the TOS kinda spells out what "toxic behavior" is, and by that definition, there is plenty is ESO. I know people like to treat the internet as a "safe space" for trolling--see everyone talking about being "oversensitive" or saying "just ignore them," or whatever "everything is fine" response @$$holes use to defend @$$holery-- but any honest person has seen a zone chat bursting with TOS-violating hate-speech. And plenty of these turds get banned, even if they don't receive the kind of public shaming I'd like to see.

The t-bagging thing likely doesn't violate the TOS, so all we can really do is take solace in the fact that the boys/man-children who do it are such chuds that this baby $@&* gives them pleasure. Edgelords gotta edge, after all.

BloodMagicLord · August 2019

Oh, cry me a river. You know how you beat toxic people in a game?
By being better than them, turning the tables and then giving them a taste of their own medicine with a good teabagging. Soon shuts them up. That's what teabagging is about, not "sexual abuse" or whatever other insanity has been claimed in this thread... it's either used as a joke between friends, or to provoke a reaction, or to rub the salt in the wounds of someone who deserves it.

And if you can't git gud for whatever reason, then there is a nice little "Ignore" button you can use, and boom, you don't have to listen to "toxic" people anymore

Banana · August 2019

So many snowflakes

BloodMagicLord · August 2019

msalvia wrote: »

Actually, the TOS kinda spells out what "toxic behavior" is, and by that definition, there is plenty is ESO. I know people like to treat the internet as a "safe space" for trolling--see everyone talking about being "oversensitive" or saying "just ignore them," or whatever "everything is fine" response @$$holes use to defend @$$holery-- but any honest person has seen a zone chat bursting with TOS-violating hate-speech. And plenty of these turds get banned, even if they don't receive the kind of public shaming I'd like to see.

The t-bagging thing likely doesn't violate the TOS, so all we can really do is take solace in the fact that the boys/man-children who do it are such chuds that this baby $@&* gives them pleasure. Edgelords gotta edge, after all.

People are making those suggestions because it's a practical solution that any adult can quite easily employ. Personally I'd rather people used the tools already in the game to filter out trolls if that's what they want, then ZOS employees can spend their time doing something more useful than sifting through endless reports of teabagging and people who got triggered by something so inconsequential as an edgy joke in a zone chat.

BloodMagicLord · August 2019

Minyassa wrote: »

I would give up on expecting anything of ZOS. They seem to actively promote conflict between players. The very design of a lot of things in PvE that should not be competitive or provide an easy method of griefing points to actually encouraging social discord. You'd be better off spending your time trying to develop psychic powers that would allow you to explode people's heads remotely. Even the fantasy there is more satisfying than anything ZOS will do about people being raging butt holes for no reason.

If you don't want competition then why did you decide to purchase an MMORPG?

Suddwrath · August 2019

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

If you don't want competition then why did you decide to purchase an MMORPG?

For cooperation?

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Reistr_the_Unbroken · August 2019

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I would give up on expecting anything of ZOS. They seem to actively promote conflict between players. The very design of a lot of things in PvE that should not be competitive or provide an easy method of griefing points to actually encouraging social discord. You'd be better off spending your time trying to develop psychic powers that would allow you to explode people's heads remotely. Even the fantasy there is more satisfying than anything ZOS will do about people being raging butt holes for no reason.

If you don't want competition then why did you decide to purchase an MMORPG?

Because some people don’t give a rat’s behind about it being an MMO, and more that it’s an Elder Scrolls Title first

Minyassa · August 2019

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

I would give up on expecting anything of ZOS. They seem to actively promote conflict between players. The very design of a lot of things in PvE that should not be competitive or provide an easy method of griefing points to actually encouraging social discord. You'd be better off spending your time trying to develop psychic powers that would allow you to explode people's heads remotely. Even the fantasy there is more satisfying than anything ZOS will do about people being raging butt holes for no reason.

If you don't want competition then why did you decide to purchase an MMORPG?

Who says I don't want competition? I just don't want it in PvE. PvE = Player vs Environment. We have Cyrodiil for competition. Pitting players against each other for quest resources, such as happens in the Wrothgar dailies currently needed for the event, is just aggravating and pointless. And as for other conflict points, such as griefing tools, there is no competition involved in mudballs, they are just there to allow people to interrupt each other's activities and potentially delay them on the way to a resource node, thus converting PvE into PvP again. For a game that wasn't designed for open-world PvP they certainly like to set people at each other's throats.