Toxic Behaviour in ESO

Derbforgaill

I think anyone that has played ESO for long enough has experienced toxic behaviour: from tea-bagging to slurs on chat. (I would include bots in that category, but that's a different talk.)

So far, I have obtained very negative experiences from reporting toxic behaviours from ZOS. No feedback, no follow-through... I get the reason they provide to not informing about the results of complaints (aka: maintain the privacy of the other player(s)) but there have been actual cases where ZOS should have gotten back to me and didn't. For example, I recorded cheating in a BG (a video), but you can't upload it to a complaint in-game. So I just mentioned that I had recorded everything and that I'd be happy to send the video via whatever format they needed. Of course, I never got a response aside from the usual "we received your complaint".

Listening to an episode of the Psychology of Video Games Podcast on this very issue and how some game companies of online games deal with it was rather enraging to see what other companies do when compared to ZOS. A full team dedicated to investigating toxic behaviour, coming up with new ways of regulating this behaviour and creating a more friendly environment...

How do you think toxic behaviour could be dealt with in ESO?

VaranisArano

ZOS isn't going to give you the follow up you want. The privacy of the other players is a lot more important than your need to feel vindicated or whatever.


Now, when it comes to things like "I have video!", go ahead and reply to the message they send you with the video attached. When I've had to report people for their user name or racist comments in chat, I attach the screenshots to that initial message as a follow-up, that way I've made a full report. I do not expect ZOS to tell me the results.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

it is hard for Zos, iam not defending them, but what do you define as toxic, some say its verbal others say not, some saying having certain add ons like loot looker is other say its not, tell peeps what to wear or skills to use, some say is toxic, while others say is not, what zos has to do, is define what is toxic but it won't, as it has a fear that if it does players will leave, so defining what toxic behaviour is, is a hard thing

Suddwrath

A step in the right direction would be bringing back GMs in-game. Zone chat can be an absolute cesspool of racism, sexism, etc, and having GMs around could potentially help to deter that behavior.

Edaphon

At least 90% of the 'toxic behaviour' isn't toxic at all. It's just people being overly sensitive.

BigBragg

If somebody does something truly offensive, or something that I perceive to be in the area of a cheat or exploit, I report them. Then I move on with me down. Don't give it another thought. By no means do they deserve to be granted that sort of power of my free time.

There are people who get paid to handle it. Let them. If they do their job properly, then they maintain a healthy community.

Liam12548

Maybe try not getting offended by anonymous people on the internet. That works pretty well for me.

Derbforgaill

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS isn't going to give you the follow up you want. The privacy of the other players is a lot more important than your need to feel vindicated or whatever.


Now, when it comes to things like "I have video!", go ahead and reply to the message they send you with the video attached. When I've had to report people for their user name or racist comments in chat, I attach the screenshots to that initial message as a follow-up, that way I've made a full report. I do not expect ZOS to tell me the results.

In the link I used in my original post you can listen to how this was done in Riot for LoL. They had the other players themselves figure out whether a behaviour was acceptable or not (removing names & details, just asking "is saying this ok or not ok in the game"). So it can be done and said episode is a great example of how other companies are doing it.

I had no idea of all the things that can be done to curb toxicity, but it turns out there is a bunch, and it doesn't feel like ZOS does any of them (they may, I just have never noticed them doing anything).

@SaltySudd I'm sorry, I'm not aware of what GMs are or what their functions are supposed to be. Game masters?

Derbforgaill

BigBragg wrote: »

If somebody does something truly offensive, or something that I perceive to be in the area of a cheat or exploit, I report them. Then I move on with me down. Don't give it another thought. By no means do they deserve to be granted that sort of power of my free time.

There are people who get paid to handle it. Let them. If they do their job properly, then they maintain a healthy community.

That's what I do as well.

But the issue here is that if they are indeed paying people to handle it, they are either not doing a great job or not being given the right tools to address the issues, because I have not noticed the community getting any better in the years I've been playing (this is not to mean like the community as a whole is terrible, but the toxic elements are simply not being dealt with).

Wolfpaw

GW1 handled cheaters the best, a god was summoned that publicly one-shot killed your toon.

Rave the Histborn

"In the link I used in my original post you can listen to how this was done in Riot for LoL. They had the other players themselves figure out whether a behaviour was acceptable or not (removing names & details, just asking "is saying this ok or not ok in the game"). So it can be done and said episode is a great example of how other companies are doing it.

It's a poor example of censorship that ultimately doesn't ever work. This is why a lot of people have abandoned games like Overwatch and LoL. The overly sensitive get too much say in their games and it ends up becoming where the game itself takes a backseat in order to appease a very small minority that will never be appeased.

"I had no idea of all the things that can be done to curb toxicity, but it turns out there is a bunch, and it doesn't feel like ZOS does any of them (they may, I just have never noticed them doing anything)."

So you're saying they probably do, you just don't know, but you'd like to know so you can feel morally vindicated. It sounds like the real toxic player is you. Learn to block people and get a backbone.

Suddwrath

Wolfpaw wrote: »

GW1 handled cheaters the best, a god was summoned that publicly one-shot killed your toon.

I can't remember which game it was that I used to play, but the GMs would appear in game with giant Banhammers (as in actual hammers) and they would go around smiting the gold spammers, cheaters, etc. It was amazing.

UnseenCat

Part of the problem is defining what's toxic. It varies for different people, even when there are baselines for acceptable/unacceptable behavior. People are individuals, so I'm not saying this is bad or good -- just difficult to define and enforce for all. So there will always be debates on the topic.

The other part -- and probably the larger issue -- is that there's no single place to examine and enforce the rules upon. Zone chat is one place to monitor. But then there's in-game voice chat on consoles, console-platform voice chat on the consoles, and myriad guild-based Discord/TeamSpeak/whatever out-of-band text and voice channels. It would take a LOT of GM's to monitor them all, likely more than is practical. Some form or monitoring in-game is a good idea, but it's not likely to be as effective as any of us would wish.

Hopefully, any sort of reports by players are handled seriously, promptly, and fairly. Since naming and shaming isn't permitted (and rightly so), then we won't hear much about resolutions and we just have to hope and trust that the system works.

Guilds themselves can do good by promoting positive behavior and values, and ZOS in turn can use their periodic spotlights to call attention to them and their efforts -- but PR and shaping public behavior takes time.

Like a lot of players, I just mute zone chat and only pay attention to my guild chat, and try to be a decent human being in-game. On the whole, that's what I see from a lot of players in PC-NA where I play. I've encountered much worse, on average, in other online games. I'll just try to continue being decent to fellow players, and if the majority of us continue to do that and don't sink to the level of toxic individuals, then on the whole, ESO will be OK.

yodased

Putting a u in the word behavior is toxic and there is a way for us to fix that.

ESO toxic behavior is tame in comparison to the general internet and games rit-large.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Liam12548 wrote: »

Maybe try not getting offended by anonymous people on the internet. That works pretty well for me.

Edaphon wrote: »

At least 90% of the 'toxic behaviour' isn't toxic at all. It's just people being overly sensitive.

^^ Glad to know some people still support racism, harassment and the like in gaming culture, instead of actually doing something about it

ChunkyCat

Welcome to the real world, where people are scum bags.

Edaphon

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Maybe try not getting offended by anonymous people on the internet. That works pretty well for me.

Edaphon wrote: »

At least 90% of the 'toxic behaviour' isn't toxic at all. It's just people being overly sensitive.

^^ Glad to know some people still support racism, harassment and the like in gaming culture, instead of actually doing something about it

Oh noes, better report me for being toxic.

ATomiX69

How the *** is ZOS meant to work through serious reports when 90% of the reports are from salty people abusing the report functionality.
They should start banning people that misuse the report system and then go from there.

Derbforgaill

UnseenCat wrote: »

Like a lot of players, I just mute zone chat and only pay attention to my guild chat, and try to be a decent human being in-game. On the whole, that's what I see from a lot of players in PC-NA where I play.

And it mostly works. But then we are missing out on a lot of stuff (and some of it may be important, like when you are in PvP).

Wouldn't it be nice to have a chat that doesn't turn away many players?

ChunkyCat

Edaphon wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Maybe try not getting offended by anonymous people on the internet. That works pretty well for me.

Edaphon wrote: »

At least 90% of the 'toxic behaviour' isn't toxic at all. It's just people being overly sensitive.

^^ Glad to know some people still support racism, harassment and the like in gaming culture, instead of actually doing something about it

Oh noes, better report me for being toxic.

Yasss. Let the hate flow through you.

Gaggin

If you think teabagging is a reportable offense, then thats probably why they havent got back to you.

Nemesis7884

you want to immediately reduce one source of toxic behavior? dont force pvp players to do pve content and vice-verca

in fact keep these aspects of the game separate - they dont work together they dont want to play together

Nevasca

> toxic behaviour
> tea bagging

You know ESO is doing fine when players complain about teabagging, and not actual destructive behaviour.

Toxic behaviour would be sitting AFK in a battleground because your teammate is playing a class you judge being weak and calling them trash and all sort of names, or sitting AFK because your healer/tank is putting guard on you saying how your should kys for using that skill. (Yes, both happened).

Learn to take a loss and be sportive about teabags man, geez.

ChunkyCat

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

... be sportive about teabags man, geez.

Yaassss. Place those *** on your opponents face.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Glad to know the Fortnite community is aware and trying to do something about toxicity, unlike this community:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/2/20751540/fortnite-world-cup-women-esports-gen-g-faze-clan-ewok

Derbforgaill

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

> toxic behaviour
> tea bagging

You know ESO is doing fine when players complain about teabagging, and not actual destructive behaviour.

Toxic behaviour would be sitting AFK in a battleground because your teammate is playing a class you judge being weak and calling them trash and all sort of names, or sitting AFK because your healer/tank is putting guard on you saying how your should kys for using that skill. (Yes, both happened).

Learn to take a loss and be sportive about teabags man, geez.

From tea-bagging to slurs. That implies everything in between. I agree with the other examples you bring forward, but tea-bagging is representative of sexual abuse. A show of power. Disrespectful regardless of how you look at it. So yeah, I consider it toxic behaviour. And allowing some toxic behaviours because they are not deemed really harmful does not help in dealing with the other issues.

Gaggin

Teabagging isnt sexual abuse. If your toon is female I'd say its sexual empowerment(especially if its taco tuesday).
But fir reals though i am just tryung to get back into stealth...

ArchMikem

Anonymity of the Internet gives people the freedom to act without consequence. That freedom usually, most of the time, brings out the worst in people, because they believe they'll get away with it.

Nevasca

Derbforgaill wrote: »

but tea-bagging is representative of sexual abuse. .

Well that's just taking it out of context. I don't think anyone who tea-bags thinks "imma sexual abuse this character's heehheheh".
Just no. People do it because it's funny and for good laughs. When I 1v1 my friends and they win, they usually teabag me and we usually just laugh. WE don't freak out "omg my friend is sexually abusing me!1!!"

It's not deemed really harmful because it isn't. Stop being oversensitive, enjoy the game.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

... be sportive about teabags man, geez.

Yaassss. Place those *** on your opponents face.

hell yeah lmao

Coopersnow

How is t-bagging toxic behavior

Sanctum74

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Maybe try not getting offended by anonymous people on the internet. That works pretty well for me.

Edaphon wrote: »

At least 90% of the 'toxic behaviour' isn't toxic at all. It's just people being overly sensitive.

^^ Glad to know some people still support racism, harassment and the like in gaming culture, instead of actually doing something about it

Wow, so now people are racist because they don't agree with you or don't get offended by strangers on the Internet. Talk about being toxic? Practice what you preach.