It feels like the new team has no clue what they are doing?

GallantGuardian · August 2019

Kova wrote: »

Oh they're extremely aware of what they're doing, and they're doing it extremely well.

Those cash shop upgrades are going to look mighty tasty next patch when people hop on a new class.

Wait what ?? Class respec?

Masel · August 2019

Shantu wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

This is exactly the kind of condescending, elitist, snobbery that I'm sure mirrors the attitude of ZOS. Do us all a favor and roll your eyes and read something else because you certainly don't represent anything of value.

I was just being honest. And just for your insight, we passed the main pain points from the playerbase to the devs again just yesterday, with detailed explanations why many changes weren't liked.

I was just pointing out that the devs have a very clear demand how feedback should look like, and if it doesn't do that, it is likely to be discarded. So the only reason to post feedback that doesnt fulfill those requirements is to vent, and that makes it harder to filter out the feedback that does for us.
If you dont like that and think I'm a bad class rep because i voiced it, fine, but that's how it is.

Taloros · August 2019

Threads like this make me wonder who had the genius idea of "volunteer" programs to outsource work to unpaid people who a.) take the flak from the community and b.) can easily be dropped once they start becoming unpopular due to insulting their fellow customers, uhm, being honest, I mean.

Nemesis7884 · August 2019

Sennecca wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

How about this as a reply.
The players are upset because healers are being made to be irrelevant in the game. The entire role of healer is being made to be irrelevant.
The class skill are being nerfed to the point of being useless while generic skills are being buffed to being op such that players will hop on one class and have the same skills and rotation as hopping on another class. Lets all play soul splitting trap, degeneration
Totally gutting a class that has nothing to offer in a large group such mag sorcerors. Cutting their pet damage by almost 70%. Not 40%, not 45% but 69%. Then, at the last minute changing power surge used by every non pet sorceror for heals to heal themselves when they crit strike to a complete aoe heal that heals when u crit heal without at the same time not changing crit surge for stam sorc into a morph that mag users can use.
Things like this are what throws the forums into a frenzy. Removing class identity, role viability and entire classes being made irrelevant are what make people just "take breaks" from the game. Many of the people who post with these posts love this game and believe these changes are destroying what they love. All in the name of pvp balance.

this a hundred times over

maboleth · August 2019

It feels like there's some kind of huge bureaucracy in their dev method. Many opinions and thoughts but you have to fill large forms to *just* get the attention...

Further, their own team seems torn on 2 sides, fighting with each other who's idea is going to win...

Minnesinger · August 2019

The end of the world has been predicted so many times it is getting old news. Remember this?

Priyasekarssk · August 2019

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

The game is worst for 1.5 years ago.

Other games like BDO, even Guild wars went way ahead. Because class representatives, streamers and balance teams themselves are acting selfishly on their own behalf and destroyed the game. I would say a corrupt cancerous tumor. How about people left when shield changes came in? That's the starting point of ESO failure. Just wait for 1 more year noobs. No one will play this game, and ESO will fall behind even Guild Wars and no one watches your ESO stream except view botters. This a fact. No garbage opinion from some garbage. All information on the website and credible sources to verify.

Lie whatever want. Can I ask you only one question? Are you lying intentionally or corrupt or incompetent as so class representative to know this happened?

No feedback lopsided for corrupt people. Everyone knows how much corrupt class representative program and noob streamers dictating game balance with selfish motives. When ESO died you guys no place for the lack of skill and only relying on cheap cheese builds.

snarkomatic · August 2019

Masel wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

This is exactly the kind of condescending, elitist, snobbery that I'm sure mirrors the attitude of ZOS. Do us all a favor and roll your eyes and read something else because you certainly don't represent anything of value.

I was just being honest. And just for your insight, we passed the main pain points from the playerbase to the devs again just yesterday, with detailed explanations why many changes weren't liked.

I was just pointing out that the devs have a very clear demand how feedback should look like, and if it doesn't do that, it is likely to be discarded. So the only reason to post feedback that doesnt fulfill those requirements is to vent, and that makes it harder to filter out the feedback that does for us.
If you dont like that and think I'm a bad class rep because i voiced it, fine, but that's how it is.

I'm sure you get exhausted in this role, and that's valid, but maybe you should have followed your own advice on giving "worthwhile feedback" so to speak ...

If you think we, who care, do a poor job of expressing our concerns, maybe tell us exactly what you guys look for and what you want to see from us. There are a lot of threads that have come up in the last 4 weeks full of reasoned, calm explanations of player feedback, especially where the healing changes are concerned -- and yet your initial response was incredibly dismissive of the brunt of feedback given on this forum.

Coming into this thread to condescend and insult and say "all it does ... is make my eyes roll" I just have to ask -- what reaction did you expect from posters? No one is going to rush to thank you for all your legitimate hard work if you don't take the time to express yourself effectively and professionally when you interact with the community you are meant to represent.

Priyasekarssk · August 2019

Minnesinger wrote: »

The end of the world has been predicted so many times it is getting old news. Remember this?

The end of the world is already there. ESO fell behind in twitch views and players base. BDO already passed 1 billion revenue and 18 million players base. Noobs who cannot play balanced fair game play getting even more cheese with your corrupt class representatives, streamers and balancing team. After one year it will even fall behind Guild wars. All started with shield changes.

Enjoy your cheese builds noobs with potatoes before the game dies out.

xMovingTarget · August 2019

Necro skills not being working properly since the class first iteration on 5.0 pts.
Multiple threads explaining and showing the issue, no acknowledgments from ZoS what so ever, no fixes. Class still is not working. It's key mechanic and skills don't work.
Nothing was done to fix it.
Ye, I am pretty sure at this point they do not know what they are doing. Can't even fix bugs as crucial as that.

Aurie · August 2019

Sennecca wrote: »

How about this as a reply.
The players are upset because healers are being made to be irrelevant in the game. The entire role of healer is being made to be irrelevant.
The class skill are being nerfed to the point of being useless while generic skills are being buffed to being op such that players will hop on one class and have the same skills and rotation as hopping on another class. Lets all play soul splitting trap, degeneration
Totally gutting a class that has nothing to offer in a large group such mag sorcerors. Cutting their pet damage by almost 70%. Not 40%, not 45% but 69%. Then, at the last minute changing power surge used by every non pet sorceror for heals to heal themselves when they crit strike to a complete aoe heal that heals when u crit heal without at the same time not changing crit surge for stam sorc into a morph that mag users can use.
Things like this are what throws the forums into a frenzy. Removing class identity, role viability and entire classes being made irrelevant are what make people just "take breaks" from the game. Many of the people who post with these posts love this game and believe these changes are destroying what they love. All in the name of pvp balance.

Great reply Sennecca, you couldn't have put it better.

I really hope @ZOS_GinaBruno or any of the other forum staff pass this on to the dev dept.

Priyasekarssk · August 2019

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Sennecca wrote: »

How about this as a reply.
The players are upset because healers are being made to be irrelevant in the game. The entire role of healer is being made to be irrelevant.
The class skill are being nerfed to the point of being useless while generic skills are being buffed to being op such that players will hop on one class and have the same skills and rotation as hopping on another class. Lets all play soul splitting trap, degeneration
Totally gutting a class that has nothing to offer in a large group such mag sorcerors. Cutting their pet damage by almost 70%. Not 40%, not 45% but 69%. Then, at the last minute changing power surge used by every non pet sorceror for heals to heal themselves when they crit strike to a complete aoe heal that heals when u crit heal without at the same time not changing crit surge for stam sorc into a morph that mag users can use.
Things like this are what throws the forums into a frenzy. Removing class identity, role viability and entire classes being made irrelevant are what make people just "take breaks" from the game. Many of the people who post with these posts love this game and believe these changes are destroying what they love. All in the name of pvp balance.

Great reply Sennecca, you couldn't have put it better.

I really hope @ZOS_GinaBruno or any of the other forum staff pass this on to the dev dept.

Corruption. No use to put any ZOs employees. Either they may be corrupt or powerless to do anything. It seems its fully organized corruption. Leech shareholder's money until the company becomes bankrupt. Even in PVP mage sorcs are not powerful except few battleground matches. These balance changes are meaningless only to appease certain noobs.

According to ZOs, Pet sorc is top in all PVE leaderboards, Battlegrounds, all PVP leaderboards, All trials. So, it requires nerf. ZOs doesn't have any data. This entire balance is based on noob garbage opinions who are afraid of competitive gameplay.

Almost always play streamer race and class you would be fine.

xylena_lazarow · August 2019

A lot of the frustration comes from ZOS "fixing" things that weren't "broken" in the first place, and knee-jerking from nerf to buff to nerf each week of the PTS cycle, see: Incap Strike last patch, Momentum and Vigor this patch.

HowlKimchi · August 2019

Not a fan of changes for the sake of balance that makes a class lose its identity.

Remember when classes had cool CC's that work differently per class? Like Sorc's frags having a CC, and Magplar's Blazing Spear CCing 1 target in the aoe? That was pretty cool. Now everyone uses flame reach/shock reach.

Dracane · August 2019

The main thing that brought us as a race this far, is the ability to see mistakes and learn from them, especially after multiple times.

If we loose the ability to learn from mistakes, we fail for good. Unfortunately, the combat team does not seem to learn. So many chances were given, so many times their false

ways and behaviors were pointed out to them. But they happen again, again and again.

Which is why ESO will fall, until only a few, blind cash giving cows remain. But that is not an issue, for it must only survive until Elder Scrolls 6 comes, right ? I feel like this is their intention. Holding on until ESO is not needed anymore.
ESO currently follows all the signs of downfall that has happened to other MMOs before. It is just, that they happen shockingly quickly in succession.

Ragnaroek93 · August 2019

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

What I like in this patch: The time to kill is now lower than it is on live which is a good thing in PvP.
What I don't like: Pretty much everything else and how that low time to kill is achieved (overbuffed dots instead of just adjusting battle spirit for example).

I don't think that you (or the others) are bad class reps nor do I blame for any of the mess which ZOS is doing but I think that this whole class rep program is just a PR show at this point and not worth bothering. As an EU PvP player I don't feel that my feedback (or the one from other EU PvP players) gets taken into account, they rather listen to some biased clowns who cheese some tooltips to push their agenda instead of listening to people who try to test the changes in a bigger context and actually put effort into it.

LiquidPony · August 2019

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

The end of the world has been predicted so many times it is getting old news. Remember this?

The end of the world is already there. ESO fell behind in twitch views and players base. BDO already passed 1 billion revenue and 18 million players base. Noobs who cannot play balanced fair game play getting even more cheese with your corrupt class representatives, streamers and balancing team. After one year it will even fall behind Guild wars. All started with shield changes.

Enjoy your cheese builds noobs with potatoes before the game dies out.

Christ on a stick. Take your gibberish BDO copypasta elsewhere.

PhoenixGrey · August 2019

Masel wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

This is exactly the kind of condescending, elitist, snobbery that I'm sure mirrors the attitude of ZOS. Do us all a favor and roll your eyes and read something else because you certainly don't represent anything of value.

I was just being honest. And just for your insight, we passed the main pain points from the playerbase to the devs again just yesterday, with detailed explanations why many changes weren't liked.

I was just pointing out that the devs have a very clear demand how feedback should look like, and if it doesn't do that, it is likely to be discarded. So the only reason to post feedback that doesnt fulfill those requirements is to vent, and that makes it harder to filter out the feedback that does for us.
If you dont like that and think I'm a bad class rep because i voiced it, fine, but that's how it is.

I always hoped ZOS would take feedback just from the class reps and disregard the feedback from potatoes in multiple threads

But that's not what's happening. Looks like ZOS still listens to potatoes from 30 page nerf sorc thread and nerfs skills on PTS based on inflated PVE tooltips.

The_Lex · August 2019

Dracane wrote: »

The main thing that brought us as a race this far, is the ability to see mistakes and learn from them, especially after multiple times.

If we loose the ability to learn from mistakes, we fail for good. Unfortunately, the combat team does not seem to learn. So many chances were given, so many times their false

ways and behaviors were pointed out to them. But they happen again, again and again.

Which is why ESO will fall, until only a few, blind cash giving cows remain. But that is not an issue, for it must only survive until Elder Scrolls 6 comes, right ? I feel like this is their intention. Holding on until ESO is not needed anymore.
ESO currently follows all the signs of downfall that has happened to other MMOs before. It is just, that they happen shockingly quickly in succession.

Vahrokh · August 2019

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Every single change this PTS makes sense and is well connected to the grand plan of what direction Zenimax tries to push forward to.

What's the grand plan for PvE magsorcs? Their extinction?

Nemesis7884 · August 2019

gw2 always had the better balance...

honestly i am thinking more and more that zos purposefully over-or under nerfs/buffs certain skills / sets etc. due to monetization incentives - it fits perfectly the MO that behesda has displayed in recent years!

Suddenly non specific class skills get a huge buff shortly before you can buy them in the crown store...aha

Kalle_Demos · August 2019

Masel wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

This is exactly the kind of condescending, elitist, snobbery that I'm sure mirrors the attitude of ZOS. Do us all a favor and roll your eyes and read something else because you certainly don't represent anything of value.

I was just being honest. And just for your insight, we passed the main pain points from the playerbase to the devs again just yesterday, with detailed explanations why many changes weren't liked.

I was just pointing out that the devs have a very clear demand how feedback should look like, and if it doesn't do that, it is likely to be discarded. So the only reason to post feedback that doesnt fulfill those requirements is to vent, and that makes it harder to filter out the feedback that does for us.
If you dont like that and think I'm a bad class rep because i voiced it, fine, but that's how it is.

*Bosmer Players waiting on that #Stealth Update after #89Pages of very well written and thoughtful feedback feedback*

Rex-Umbra · August 2019

They fine

BlueRaven · August 2019

Kalle_Demos wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.

I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.

Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.

This is exactly the kind of condescending, elitist, snobbery that I'm sure mirrors the attitude of ZOS. Do us all a favor and roll your eyes and read something else because you certainly don't represent anything of value.

I was just being honest. And just for your insight, we passed the main pain points from the playerbase to the devs again just yesterday, with detailed explanations why many changes weren't liked.

I was just pointing out that the devs have a very clear demand how feedback should look like, and if it doesn't do that, it is likely to be discarded. So the only reason to post feedback that doesnt fulfill those requirements is to vent, and that makes it harder to filter out the feedback that does for us.
If you dont like that and think I'm a bad class rep because i voiced it, fine, but that's how it is.

*Bosmer Players waiting on that #Stealth Update after #89Pages of very well written and thoughtful feedback feedback*

Hey, remember when the one class rep who was sympathetic in that thread was not only pushed out of the class rep system, but was also banned from the forums in general?

Boy giving thoughtful feedback was really the way to go there. That made ALL the difference. /s

I wonder if those issues about the race changes are even brought up by the class reps anymore? Would anyone be surprised if the answer was no?

All this patch is doing is a symbolic replay of what happened in the race changes. Glaring problems, with feedback addressing those problems, that is once again ignored. And will most likely continue to be ignored going onward because the time to have said something about it was before it went live.

It’s like a weird Catch-22; They say what the changes are, we tell them the problems, they ignore what we say and do it anyway. And when we continue to complain they say we should have told them before the changes actually happened.

So what is the point of feedback?

idk · August 2019

There is no new team. It is still Team Matt Firor. There are just some new team members working to fulfil Matt's ever changing "vision".

Jaraal · August 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

And when we continue to complain they say we should have told them before the changes actually happened.

They've said that? That's a new one on me.

I thought it was just silence and 'Have you gotten used to our vision of the month yet?'