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It feels like the new team has no clue what they are doing?
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Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »The main problem is imho that they use rocket-propelled sledge hammer to balance the game, instead of some precice surgical tool. Balance will be never achived that way, as huge changes will always cause huge disproportions making one thing totally useless and the other ultra OP.
WW & Onslaught are good examples. Both are powerfull on live (but not OP), yet becuse one recived huge nerf (WW) and the other huge buff (Onslaught) one will be useless, and the other OP next patch. That would not have happened if the nerfs / buffs were small.
Hrm. I really don't think the game can be balanced the way people expect. I've been playing this game since 2014.
There are reasons why people play the Elder Scrolls Online and it's definitely not the balance; but the versatility. If you wanted anything close to balance in a theme park why don't you play a MMORPG where you wear a specific armor type, can only use your class skills, have a certain weapon type, equipment designed for your class, and vertical character progression with a ceiling. Even the games I just describe have their issue, but in most cases they have a easier time tuning things.
When people talk about the shield nerfs, ultimates having cast times, healing changes, and DoT damage I don't understand what they expect out ESO.
To be honest I like when they do stuff like this. Nobody is leaving since the game oddly enough continues to grow. I'm just waiting for those Magdens to finally be on the top with replies to patch notes that say, "this is BS".
but thats the thing - they are currently killing off versatility and variety in the pursuit of balance and i think it might destroy a lot of peoples reason to play the game...
stamina classes all feel so samey that i stopped playing them and now magicka is just heading the same way5 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hrm. I really don't think the game can be balanced the way people expect.
It could at least come close if they did smaller more careful changes, rather than huge nerfs/buffs as mentioned.
Onslaught is a perfect example. It was already a good skill, and just turning it into an aoe would have been a huge buff, but instead they overbuff it into insane levels (even with the nerf it's still overperforming imo) they give it an aoe and make the user basically ignore everyones resistances for 16 seconds ? How can anyone think that is balanced, and the fact that it was even changed that way really shows the lack of knowledge from whoever even thought of it.
Same with medium. They wanted to stop the heavy meta and the first patch was good, medium was finally strong. Then every patch after made it less and less viable. They gutted stam healing, nerfed survivability and increased dot damage by a lot. My survivability in heavy will suck, I wouldn't even want to see what it's like in medium.
They make massive changes instead of small ones. They usually change their mind on things that seem to make no sense, and then make changes before things have even been properly tested. This leads to issues and imbalance.Edited by Crixus8000 on August 7, 2019 5:19AM3 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »The main problem is imho that they use rocket-propelled sledge hammer to balance the game, instead of some precice surgical tool. Balance will be never achived that way, as huge changes will always cause huge disproportions making one thing totally useless and the other ultra OP.
WW & Onslaught are good examples. Both are powerfull on live (but not OP), yet becuse one recived huge nerf (WW) and the other huge buff (Onslaught) one will be useless, and the other OP next patch. That would not have happened if the nerfs / buffs were small.
Hrm. I really don't think the game can be balanced the way people expect. I've been playing this game since 2014.
There are reasons why people play the Elder Scrolls Online and it's definitely not the balance; but the versatility. If you wanted anything close to balance in a theme park why don't you play a MMORPG where you wear a specific armor type, can only use your class skills, have a certain weapon type, equipment designed for your class, and vertical character progression with a ceiling. Even the games I just describe have their issue, but in most cases they have a easier time tuning things.
When people talk about the shield nerfs, ultimates having cast times, healing changes, and DoT damage I don't understand what they expect out ESO.
To be honest I like when they do stuff like this. Nobody is leaving since the game oddly enough continues to grow. I'm just waiting for those Magdens to finally be on the top with replies to patch notes that say, "this is BS".
but thats the thing - they are currently killing off versatility and variety in the pursuit of balance and i think it might destroy a lot of peoples reason to play the game...
stamina classes all feel so samey that i stopped playing them and now magicka is just heading the same way
It certainly kills the desire to play some classes.Assing acast time incap reall puts the nail in the coffon for making nb funa ny more.0 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have no idea why they do what they do over and over again.
Only fools keep making the same mistakes over and over though.
Its not about performance or fix problems, you cant fix problems by changing everything at once.
Only thing i feel like is that they just change skills so we are forced to use other once, no idea why.
Need remorph blockade of elements now, entrophy instead of power surge, my beloved magsorc will be dead on the ground.
It’s real annoying to have somethimg you love so much and do to relax bit and have fun after work change so excessively all the time.
I know what you mean. And the thing that really bugs me are these idiots that keep telling me to “adapt”. I’ve been with the game since the beginning, and I’m getting tired of adapting over, and over, and over again. Really, I just want to play the game and have a bit of fun, but not needing to redo my build after every freaking patch. @ZOS_BrianWheeler , @ZOS_Gilliam.
Edited by Ashtaris on August 7, 2019 6:03AM23 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They obviously listened to feedback from @DelparisEdited by Ragnaroek93 on August 7, 2019 3:34PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.12 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »They obviously listened to feedback from @Delparis
yeah this will make the game balanced1 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hey quit griping, at least the items in the crown store and crown crates are lag and bug free, that's all that matters.3 -
Muzzick✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »They obviously listened to feedback from @Delparis
@Delparis is too OP a nerf is needed2 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »They obviously listened to feedback from @Delparis
They always listen to the most irrational posts.6 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sometimes im wondering if constantly overhauling things hepls them somehow with monetization and thats why they do it...1 -
MaselClass RepresentativeThere's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.Edited by Masel on August 8, 2019 6:45AMPC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
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Kova✭✭✭✭✭Oh they're extremely aware of what they're doing, and they're doing it extremely well.
Those cash shop upgrades are going to look mighty tasty next patch when people hop on a new class.EP Sorc: Aydinn
AD Stamplar: Verdant`Knight
DC Stamblade: Apple`Punch
EP Stam Sorc: Kós
AD DragonKnight: Transmigrant
EP NIghtblade: Aydinn3 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.
Let me ask you this - How would you word feedback to gain attention from ZOS without bias or negitive reactions from the community ?8 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All I know is that these changes have made at least 2 of the classes I play no longer fun or enjoyable and the whole point of playing video games is meant to be to have fun so they’re failing in that aspect in my opinion.14 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.
sorry but this is deflection...there is a difference between adjusting some values slightly and just completly overhauling and scrapping things constatly without a clear communication of your vision...
the same with the new set nerfing before they even release - i am sorry but if after 5 years you cant estimate the proper values of new sets and need to nerf them 50% you are simply *** at your job.
Stop finding constantly excuses for this bad company NONE of us would get away with this poor work performance.
But i guess we dont have to wonder with that parent company thst is currently challenging EA for the spot of the worst publisher23 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.
What’s the point of making a detailed thread if it’s just going to be ignored?
Remember the wood elf and argonian racial changes? Remember the multiple detailed threads over the problems of these changes? Remember them not changing anything or even acknowledging those threads? Remember them purposely avoiding responding to the many questions in their Reddit ama about the changes?
Why should I/We give out detailed responses? What’s the point? All we are doing here is talking to other players and they don’t need detailed reasons why something is bad (for the most part) they understand it at face value.17 -
Taloros✭✭✭✭There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain.
That took you a year? o.O
Well, to speed up the thought process of the next years a bit:
- People always complain.
- That's not a bad thing. Discontent with the current state of affairs is what drives progress.
- It's not relevant if there are complaints at all (there always will be), but how amount and quality of complaints develops.
- PvP and endgame focussed players tend to be more vocal. Thus, the rarer voices on the forums can represent the majority opinion.
- The players that still play the game tend to agree with the development of the last years. Those that don't agree tend to have left.
- The majority feels discontent not before a change is implemented, but after, as most people do not read announcements or PTS patch notes. When these players start to complain, it's usually too late to change direction, which a.) makes their complaints futile, but more important b.) increases the chance of them just leaving.10 -
MaselClass RepresentativeShokasegambit1 wrote: »There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.
Let me ask you this - How would you word feedback to gain attention from ZOS without bias or negitive reactions from the community ?
Bias isnt avoidable per se, but it helps if people make themselves aware of their bias. I am also biased by the goal I have ingame, which is a better pve balance across the board, and to make all specs and classes a relevant choice for any role. That affects how I digest feedback, and no matter how hard I try to avoid it, i will probably affect how i pass feedback on to the devs.
I am a person that tries to think analytically and with a marginal benefit in mind. Does what I do do any good for me and other parties involved in discussions? If not, I might as well refrain from doing it.
It's totally fine to be angry and discontent, because as someone else mentioned above, it encourages improvement and progress. But flooding these forums with a nonsense thread like this doesnt help anyone especially given that there are multiple threads like this existing already. It just makes it harder for us and the devs themselves to filter out quality feedback.
1. What do you have a problem with?
2. Why do you have a problem with it?
3. Which rational, ideally unbiased argument does exist that might make your feedback valid?
4. If it is ignored or discarded, try to find a reasoning for why it is not implemented. Are there factors you potentially did not consider?
5. If you cannot find any, try to ask one of the reps if the devs are aware of the issue so they can ask them. If they are not aware and you have solid arguments on your side, it will create a room for discussion.
When looking through all these threads here, I dont see many posts that look as if they followed a pattern like that.
The ones that do are usually filtered out by us and posted to the devs.
PC EU
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Youtube:
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Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.
This is exactly the kind of condescending, elitist, snobbery that I'm sure mirrors the attitude of ZOS. Do us all a favor and roll your eyes and read something else because you certainly don't represent anything of value.28 -
Muzzick✭✭✭✭There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.
You're the class rep for zos? Would you by chance know who the class rep is for the players?22 -
Epicasballs✭✭✭✭I actually do think the dev team knows what they're doing but they're the only ones who do. Imagine being handed a 250 piece puzzle but when you try to assemble it you realize you're missing 200 pieces. You can't see the full picture, it's impossible. We don't have all the pieces of the puzzle as were just the player base. Only ZOS knows the full picture and giving us 50 pieces at a time leaves us wondering w t f are we looking at.2
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its a game and since its years are dated, they are trying to update it to 2019. I support them along with many others. Give players what they want? im sure they are, i just got it for a few friends actually and they are loving it. If your new to the game no one cares about whether nerfed an obviously op class a bit down or tuned them a bit up.
Every game that pretty much exists now have these things called "updates"....thats why we download the games via the internet now. Nothings permanent so just enjoy your opness while you can. you could give them constructive critisism like many others do and reasons why your critisism can help.
Honestly, keep it up zos, im getting nerfed this patched along with a few others but honestly i love the changes and feel 90% are needed. No ones gonna agree with you 100%.
great job zos
[Edit to remove bait]Edited by [Deleted User] on August 10, 2019 6:32PM2 -
Taloros✭✭✭✭I am a person that tries to think analytically and with a marginal benefit in mind.
One might say that everybody tries to think analytically. One might also say that it's quite common to believe being better in that than one actually is. Believing the former to be something unique to oneself might be seen as an indication to the latter being the case.
But, trying to be helpful... You critized this thread as being non-productive as it doesn't explain why people are discontent.
To give an example:
- Caltrops was recently buffed by giving it a huge instant damage component.
- That made the ability much stronger than other, similar skills. In other words: too strong, and quite obviously so. Nobody - afaik - asked for a buff to Caltrops. Everybody already used it, a good indication of a skill being good.
- This patch, the DoT component gets a huge nerf. This may bring the skill back to a sane level. But... what was all that fuzz about? Why mess with the skill in the first place? And why not just reverse the - now silently admitted - ill-advised change?
The change to Power Surge is pretty similar. The skill was good, but probably not what made some players call the Sorc "op" in PvP. It now gets gutted for Magsorc - probably won't be used anymore.
Some people reply to this with the solution to use Structured Entropy, which seems to give about the same return, but also adds a DoT.
But... why? Sorcs were more or less happy before. The changes to the aforementioned skills (NOT including Matriach and others) might even out. But why not let them use their old skill? What's the change good for?
The last patches and this one in particular have a lot of changes that do not convey a meaning, a direction, have no apparent reason. Some either are change for the sake of change - which is annoying, as it forces players to relearn and reskill their characters without any apparent benefit. Or the Devs responsible for the Caltrops changes, for example, lack the knowledge or vision to think their work through. Or the personnel is changed so quickly that development loses direction.
Either way, it's, well, annoying.9 -
Sennecca✭✭✭There's one thing I learned in the year of being a class rep: players always complain. They will find something they dont like in patch notes, then focus on the thing they dont like and completely forget that there are also things they like. Positivity and being constructive are attributes that seem to be forgotten qualities these days.
I have observed this process on these forums for a long time now, and it is tiresome to read complaints over complaints that basically include nothing. Theres examples of those comments in here, they are not hard to find. Interestingly, when I ask players whether the game is better now or 3 years ago, most of them say now.
Theres also examples of very well written and thoughtful feedback, but it is quite scarce on these forums. This entire post for example will get you nowhere, because there is no content in here that the devs can use as feedback. There's no reasoning, no explanation of why you feell these changes are "all over the place". All it does to me is to make my eyes roll and want to read something else.
How about this as a reply.
The players are upset because healers are being made to be irrelevant in the game. The entire role of healer is being made to be irrelevant.
The class skill are being nerfed to the point of being useless while generic skills are being buffed to being op such that players will hop on one class and have the same skills and rotation as hopping on another class. Lets all play soul splitting trap, degeneration
Totally gutting a class that has nothing to offer in a large group such mag sorcerors. Cutting their pet damage by almost 70%. Not 40%, not 45% but 69%. Then, at the last minute changing power surge used by every non pet sorceror for heals to heal themselves when they crit strike to a complete aoe heal that heals when u crit heal without at the same time not changing crit surge for stam sorc into a morph that mag users can use.
Things like this are what throws the forums into a frenzy. Removing class identity, role viability and entire classes being made irrelevant are what make people just "take breaks" from the game. Many of the people who post with these posts love this game and believe these changes are destroying what they love. All in the name of pvp balance.14 -
TheRealSniker✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every single change this PTS makes sense and is well connected to the grand plan of what direction Zenimax tries to push forward to.0
