Vapirko wrote: »

Although with the garbage healing stam has now I’ll take any delay in damage I can get lol.

It still means that despite having *** damage, it'll be more difficult to turn a fight around because even the rocks will have enough reaction time to break free and walk - *** walk - outside of ult range

Kadoin wrote: »

Have you tried using any of the other ults and see if they work cancelling the same way like Incap and DBoS on live?

Spoiler: They don't.

Crescent works just like that, and it's the only ult comparable to the ults affected by the nerf. Moreover, all other ults except leap can be ani canceled without problems, sure they have their own animations/delays (meteor, leap, colossus, etc), but you don't have to look at the character doing the whole animation and you can actually do other things while the ult goes off (leap apart).

Vermethys wrote: »

Stamina DK, Necro, Warden, and Templar have good in-class alternatives to Dawnbreaker or Berserker's Strike (if the cast time is as bad as it sounds). For StamSorc, I'm legit considering Ice Comet because all the class's ultimates are rubbish.

Nbs are ***, and stamplars kinda too. The change to radial was so *** I never even considered using it. Empower on a class based off a cast time spammable and a *** stun? Sure thing, great idea zos. No way it's even half as effective as dbos unfortunately

yodased wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Vermethys wrote: »

Stamina DK, Necro, Warden, and Templar have good in-class alternatives to Dawnbreaker or Berserker's Strike (if the cast time is as bad as it sounds). For StamSorc, I'm legit considering Ice Comet because all the class's ultimates are rubbish.

Nbs are ***, and stamplars kinda too. The change to radial was so *** I never even considered using it. Empower on a class based off a cast time spammable and a *** stun? Sure thing, great idea zos. No way it's even half as effective as dbos unfortunately

The reason dawnbreaker was so effective and used by so many was the way it fit into a rotation, could be cancelled so easily and gave you a burst window that was unavoidable and only could be anticipated.

This is not a fighting game, learning the combos of zangief or blanka is not part of the deal. The design plan was for reactive game play, not preemptive.

The fact that we have had preemptive gameplay at the highest level for so long has lulled certain types of players into thinking that is the initial design plan, but it's not and they are finally bringing things in line with what they actually wanted in the first place, or so they say.

Animation cancelling is fine, its needed, continuing the damage after the cancel is what made the game poopoo for a lof players.

Dbos is so used because the alternatives are ***. Look at stamsorc, stamplar, and stamden, their alternatives are miles worse. Stamplar has a *** ult that doesn't fit with its damaging concept yet it's best off if the three classes I mentioned. Dks and nbs, who have good alternatives, don't use dbos (that much).

yodased wrote: »

They are miles worse because they are not cancellable and don't fit into a rotation that you like maybe, but saying that they are "miles worse" is conjecture at best.

The support ultimates are going to underperform in turn and burn tower farming in a lot of situations sure, but to say that trees is miles worse than dawnbreaker? Or major protection for your entire time while stunning everyone chasing you?

Crescent sweep is a frontal cone aoe that also is a nice DOT thats cheaper than dbos. Its less bursty sure and the turn and burn playstyle its not the best, but its not miles worse than dawnbreaker.

Dawnbreaker is used "so much" because it allows you to be mobile and its cancellable within a milisecond and not counterable.

The reason you like it is because you can cancel it, you would be able to do the same damage if not more with other ultimates, they just don't slot into the turn and burn through a chokepoint or around a tower as well.

I can also cancel radial, that's not why I like dbos. I like dbos because it stuns and applies pressure after the impact. I like dbos because it is tied to nice passives. Radiant has ok passives, the dot is ok, initial hit also, but the empower is almost useless and, especially, it does not stun! Sure, cheap is nice, but efficient is better.

Btw you can't quote trees man, that's a defensive ult, you don't kill people with trees. Similarly, permafrost has great utility, but it is far worse than dbos in terms of killing potential (I am not saying it's not good, simply not good as dbos).

ESO may someday become a turn based rpg battle system.
If so, peoples can enjoy with poor server.

*sigh*

Both DB and Incap are dogeable, youre fighting a NB? You know hes gonna go for that incpap at some point, you can hear the sound and you can see someone going for that DB.
It used to be an issue with L2P but casuals dont learn, they dont prepare their builds and skills for defence im sad gameplay in ESO is gradually beeing dumbed down so your average Joe cant feel bad about themselves.

KageNin wrote: »

Both DB and Incap are dogeable, youre fighting a NB? You know hes gonna go for that incpap at some point, you can hear the sound and you can see someone going for that DB.
It used to be an issue with L2P but casuals dont learn, they dont prepare their builds and skills for defence im sad gameplay in ESO is gradually beeing dumbed down so your average Joe cant feel bad about themselves.

Precisely. Forecasting an ult drop is a big part of what defensive skill in pvp means. Now we will just have more Gilvoths surviving a couple seconds/minutes more.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Worst change is your mount actually stops sprinting when you are out of Stam now.

Can’t forget to nerf mounts too can we?

yodased wrote: »

KageNin wrote: »

Both DB and Incap are dogeable, youre fighting a NB? You know hes gonna go for that incpap at some point, you can hear the sound and you can see someone going for that DB.
It used to be an issue with L2P but casuals dont learn, they dont prepare their builds and skills for defence im sad gameplay in ESO is gradually beeing dumbed down so your average Joe cant feel bad about themselves.

This again is preemptive combat, predictive combat. That is not what the design of the game is. The game is reactive combat.

That's the huge disconnect here, the people who love the fact that this is like a massive street fighter are upset because they learned to predict combat in a game that is not based around prediction and ccccccccoooombo breakers and then there are those who look at it as reactive, but not able to react because they have to predict instead of react.

The two sides are not going to agree, ever. Simply not going to happen, this is a pro-choice/pro-life type of debate and while we can all still be friends and have good conversations, you are not going to change anyone's mind about predictive vs reactive combat.

DBOS was used (and will still be used) by the top tier farming groups because it fits into a rotation was able to be cancelled so its invisible and immediate and knock down stuns those who are following you into a choke point for the followup kill.

Should people know that a DBOS is coming as soon as they see you? Probably, but that doesn't change the fact that is outside the design of the game and its original presented ideas.

Yes game was designed to be reactive which means slow paced, but remember ESO has its place among other MMOs because combat is fast paced and smooth. Now it will be boring and regarding reactive gameplay just a reminder of DK wings, it used to be a skill that reflects projectiles, if people would be reactive they would know to switch from projectiles to direct damage while fighting one ,but no they nerfed it to the ground, instead of reducing cost but making it cost more with each cast to avoid perma projectile reflects.

Zatox wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

If with many you intend the loud minority of players who never learned how to play this game, then yes. "many" long time noobs wanted this. I'm really curious to know where you get your numbers from, but I'm not expecting anything scientific from someone like you so whatever.

Now you need to be skilled to hit the enemy.

No, your enemy just needs to be braindead. Which means everyone who likes this change, and complains about animation cancelling will still get rolled over. It will just be more annoying to do so.

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Dude you learn to be proactive as you learn to pvp. Literally, looking at a fight I can tell you in what moments an ult could be dropped. If you know how a class plays, you know when the ult will drop. It's not a matter of proactive or reactive gameplay, that's on the class (shadow image, vigor/rr, shields, htd, etc). Proactivity is a conequence of experience.

Sure that makes you a better player without a doubt, but with the current way that cancelling works, it is required to predict that dawnbreaker.

I believe, and it's just my opinion here, that this change was done for several reasons.

1. to bring the game back to reactive instead of predictive.
2. to raise the floor of pvp gameplay so new players are not being rolled instantly which may cause them to never go back to pvp.
3. to lower the ceiling of top tier farming groups to make it less easy to turn and burn ult dump, which a lot of players complain about.

Look I am not advocating for either, again I don't think this conversation is going to change any minds, but I would like to look at it objectively and see why these changes were made and if they are for the overall "betterment" of the game, even if it does alienate a certain type of play.

Also, learning to play is a valid response to predictive vs reactive combat, I understand that and if you can predict what your opponent is going to do, now you will be even better because you will have more time to react to that prediction.

I don't know if this is "dumbing" it down, but it definitely is bringing the floor and the ceiling closer to each other. I guess if you are at the top of the ceiling this is going to feel like something is being taken away, but if you have 100% and you get 5% taken away, you still have 95%.

You still will be able to farm AP against those who can not predict your combos, you just won't be able to instagib them

What's the problem to time your stun with your ultimate since it has a cast time? Sounds like using ults now require more skill. If you can do this only on "braindead" players than maybe..