Nerftheforums wrote: »

Barbaran wrote: »

Didn't they buff vigor by 89% and then nerf it by 28%? Isn't that still a 61% buff?

Actual numbers on pts show a 4% increase in healing at the end of the day. You do you...

but fewer ticks?

i also dont get how 5.1.4 being nerfed, especially for Resolving morph.......

Barbaran wrote: »

Didn't they buff vigor by 89% and then nerf it by 28%? Isn't that still a 61% buff?

no. its less than live

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

I think I'll run Necropotence/Steadfast Hero/Chudan. I created a decent build with that on PTS. If only blastbone would work 100% of the time.. 45k mag/15kstam/27k health 2k mag reco/1k stam reco. 2.8k spell damage/ 25k resist in light armor buffed.

Front bar: Blastbone/Structured Entropy/Ricochet Skull/Totem/Inner Light/Glacial Colossus.
Back Bar: Hexproof/(Rapid Regen-Healing Ward)/RaT/(Dampen Magic-Renewing Undeath-Mortal Coil-Deaden Pain)/Intensive Mender/Light's Champion

Still many problems with the class like no execute no reliable burst etc. Please ZOS at least Fix Blastbones

I feel like the uptime of major protection with Deaden Pain is too short and a pain to keep up. If it could be longer when you consume a corpse It could maybe help us move away from damage shields and tethers in pvp. Mortal Coil is not really reliable you can break it easily with the terrain or line of sight it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Yes you will eat do damage but you’ll do it with a heal that’s is nearly twice as powerful as vigor + your class heals which are very good + shields. So don’t even start with me about medium being in an equal spot. Tell you what, if you think this to be the case, why don’t you main a medium stam class next patch.

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Yes you will eat do damage but you’ll do it with a heal that’s is nearly twice as powerful as vigor + your class heals which are very good + shields. So don’t even start with me about medium being in an equal spot. Tell you what, if you think this to be the case, why don’t you main a medium stam class next patch.

so what do u think stamDK works best with in Scalebreaker? Heavy or Med?

I think stam NB will have a comeback next patch. People will be running less aoes and more dots, meaning less counters to cloak. Cloak negate dots of you get hit by them and allow you to heal. Stam dk is fine either in heavy or medium since they have access to major mending. Warden have major mending as well as stam burst heal. Templar might be able to purge twice before geting burned down, necromancer have passive for dot reduction as well as few dmg reduction skills. Stam sorc, dark deal burst heal:) and streak though dots.

Next patch, no matter how fast you are or good you are in Los, you only need to get hit once by a dot and it's on you for x secs and you can los everything else or even outrun it, but you can never los/ outrun dots. Does not matter how tanky you are,if your heals are low, you are dead in light, medium, heavy armor.

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

The healing changes will just make people run more sources of healing such as troll king, lingering pots and Mundus stone.

In another post, someone was asking for lingering pots nerf since stam dk apperantly the only class that use it.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

I think stam NB will have a comeback next patch. People will be running less aoes and more dots, meaning less counters to cloak. Cloak negate dots of you get hit by them and allow you to heal. Stam dk is fine either in heavy or medium since they have access to major mending. Warden have major mending as well as stam burst heal. Templar might be able to purge twice before geting burned down, necromancer have passive for dot reduction as well as few dmg reduction skills. Stam sorc, dark deal burst heal:) and streak though dots.

Next patch, no matter how fast you are or good you are in Los, you only need to get hit once by a dot and it's on you for x secs and you can los everything else or even outrun it, but you can never los/ outrun dots. Does not matter how tanky you are,if your heals are low, you are dead in light, medium, heavy armor.

Pretty sure that a squishy burst class won't have a comeback in a dot + healing meta

If dots end up as bad as everyone expects, cloak is the most efficient and effective counter. It suppresses unlimited dot damage. Purges may or may not purge be the dot due to all the other effects that can be on you. They won't be sustainable. (I bet they change cloak back to purging a finite number of dots relatively quickly.)

Davadin wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

The healing changes will just make people run more sources of healing such as troll king, lingering pots and Mundus stone.

In another post, someone was asking for lingering pots nerf since stam dk apperantly the only class that use it.

stamDK here.

whats lingering pots? i only use tri-pots and/or immovable pots.

You are lying, you are not a stamdk.

Jokes apart, vitality lingers are pots that grant major vitality for 15s and 1.8ish hps for 45s. Amazingly good pots in tanky characters.

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Yes you will eat do damage but you’ll do it with a heal that’s is nearly twice as powerful as vigor + your class heals which are very good + shields. So don’t even start with me about medium being in an equal spot. Tell you what, if you think this to be the case, why don’t you main a medium stam class next patch.

It’s going to depend on what class you play some stam classes will still be better then magicka and vice versa. Stamblade, stamden, and stamcro are still going to be better than their magicka counterparts. While magplar, magsorc are better than their stamina counterparts. Both DKs are pretty much dead even. The most important and strongest defensive ability in this game is movement and as long as stamina is in most cases stronger in that regard they will have a place for small scale PvP.

Overall stamina has the best mobility, strongest defensive option in roll dodge, best CC once the next patch goes live, and best burst damage, while magicka now has the best healing, a range advantage and more group utility. So you can make a case for either one at the moment if you want to open world stamina is better if you want to duel or play BGs magicka is better due mainly to the advantage of being ranged. I think we get into this magicka vs stamina debate too often and instead we really should be comparing classes. Just because magplar and mag dk are op now doesn’t mean the other mag classes are in a good spot.

Medium Armor is already really damn terrible. The tank meta rules in PvP. Running a stamblade in medium armor on noCP makes you do zero damage on almost everything, its like hitting your head against a brick wall repeatedly and expecting it to break before your head does.
Basically the only thing a "standard" medium armor stamblade build can melt at the pace its supposed to is a similiar build. DPS Tank builds ftw in PvP, nothing else need apply.

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

The healing changes will just make people run more sources of healing such as troll king, lingering pots and Mundus stone.

In another post, someone was asking for lingering pots nerf since stam dk apperantly the only class that use it.

stamDK here.

whats lingering pots? i only use tri-pots and/or immovable pots.

You are lying, you are not a stamdk.

Jokes apart, vitality lingers are pots that grant major vitality for 15s and 1.8ish hps for 45s. Amazingly good pots in tanky characters.

i say tri-pots are good enough....

thankyourat wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Yes you will eat do damage but you’ll do it with a heal that’s is nearly twice as powerful as vigor + your class heals which are very good + shields. So don’t even start with me about medium being in an equal spot. Tell you what, if you think this to be the case, why don’t you main a medium stam class next patch.

It’s going to depend on what class you play some stam classes will still be better then magicka and vice versa. Stamblade, stamden, and stamcro are still going to be better than their magicka counterparts. While magplar, magsorc are better than their stamina counterparts. Both DKs are pretty much dead even. The most important and strongest defensive ability in this game is movement and as long as stamina is in most cases stronger in that regard they will have a place for small scale PvP.

Overall stamina has the best mobility, strongest defensive option in roll dodge, best CC once the next patch goes live, and best burst damage, while magicka now has the best healing, a range advantage and more group utility. So you can make a case for either one at the moment if you want to open world stamina is better if you want to duel or play BGs magicka is better due mainly to the advantage of being ranged. I think we get into this magicka vs stamina debate too often and instead we really should be comparing classes. Just because magplar and mag dk are op now doesn’t mean the other mag classes are in a good spot.

This is discussion abour armor weight. They're adding 2 unavoidable dots to the game while nerfing vigor and removing rally hot. So yes currently dodge is pretty good. But adding more skills to the game that can't be dodged, hard hitting st dots, while also limiting heals puts medium builds at a pretty good disadvantage.

Again it’s going to depend on your class. stam dk, stamden, and dark cloak stamblades will have no problems healing and surviving. Medium is not at a inherent disadvantage. There are situations where light will be better and situations where medium will be better. One huge disadvantage of light is that damage shields have been nerfed in size and are overall not sustainable without more than 2k recovery. As well as light doesn’t have the mobility options of medium so you are forced to eat a ton more damage overall. Shuffle also received a big buff and is now overall the best mobility skill in the game and rightfully so. If medium has the best burst and mobility what’s left for light to have if not the best healing? If medium has better healing than light there would currently be zero reason to run light at all after all the other nerfs it has just received and all the other buffs to stamina.

this.

i just tried being suicidal last night on LIVE server, again comparing heavy vs med armor setup, no CP difference (no med/heavy armor focus invested), and while yes, on character stat screen the difference can be minimum (i only gain a couple thousand HP, a couple % resist, a bit of health regen), the HEALING really makes it noticeable different.

under fire by 2 stamnecro and 3 magsorc (and maybe a NB), my med setup exploded in seconds. no matter how much i dodge, enemies are able to spray n pray their projectiles with DoT that I can not outheal, dodged, no matter what. i used pots, vigor, current live rally, etc..

but putting on heavy, i can actually last just long enough to pop a second vigor and slowly backing out of LOS...

again, this is stamDK, 2H/2H, full CP PvP, on live. it's hard to test on PTS.

so i can assure you, people WILL die faster when Scalebreaker goes live, TTK will drop significantly, and medium builds will die even faster. and when u die, u deal zero damage. Heavy might be nerfed this time around, but if ur a solo or small-group player, this is the only option.

in a large group tho, yes, med still hits hard...

Davadin wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

The healing changes will just make people run more sources of healing such as troll king, lingering pots and Mundus stone.

In another post, someone was asking for lingering pots nerf since stam dk apperantly the only class that use it.

stamDK here.

whats lingering pots? i only use tri-pots and/or immovable pots.

You are lying, you are not a stamdk.

Jokes apart, vitality lingers are pots that grant major vitality for 15s and 1.8ish hps for 45s. Amazingly good pots in tanky characters.

i say tri-pots are good enough....

thankyourat wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Yes you will eat do damage but you’ll do it with a heal that’s is nearly twice as powerful as vigor + your class heals which are very good + shields. So don’t even start with me about medium being in an equal spot. Tell you what, if you think this to be the case, why don’t you main a medium stam class next patch.

It’s going to depend on what class you play some stam classes will still be better then magicka and vice versa. Stamblade, stamden, and stamcro are still going to be better than their magicka counterparts. While magplar, magsorc are better than their stamina counterparts. Both DKs are pretty much dead even. The most important and strongest defensive ability in this game is movement and as long as stamina is in most cases stronger in that regard they will have a place for small scale PvP.

Overall stamina has the best mobility, strongest defensive option in roll dodge, best CC once the next patch goes live, and best burst damage, while magicka now has the best healing, a range advantage and more group utility. So you can make a case for either one at the moment if you want to open world stamina is better if you want to duel or play BGs magicka is better due mainly to the advantage of being ranged. I think we get into this magicka vs stamina debate too often and instead we really should be comparing classes. Just because magplar and mag dk are op now doesn’t mean the other mag classes are in a good spot.

This is discussion abour armor weight. They're adding 2 unavoidable dots to the game while nerfing vigor and removing rally hot. So yes currently dodge is pretty good. But adding more skills to the game that can't be dodged, hard hitting st dots, while also limiting heals puts medium builds at a pretty good disadvantage.

Again it’s going to depend on your class. stam dk, stamden, and dark cloak stamblades will have no problems healing and surviving. Medium is not at a inherent disadvantage. There are situations where light will be better and situations where medium will be better. One huge disadvantage of light is that damage shields have been nerfed in size and are overall not sustainable without more than 2k recovery. As well as light doesn’t have the mobility options of medium so you are forced to eat a ton more damage overall. Shuffle also received a big buff and is now overall the best mobility skill in the game and rightfully so. If medium has the best burst and mobility what’s left for light to have if not the best healing? If medium has better healing than light there would currently be zero reason to run light at all after all the other nerfs it has just received and all the other buffs to stamina.

this.

i just tried being suicidal last night on LIVE server, again comparing heavy vs med armor setup, no CP difference (no med/heavy armor focus invested), and while yes, on character stat screen the difference can be minimum (i only gain a couple thousand HP, a couple % resist, a bit of health regen), the HEALING really makes it noticeable different.

under fire by 2 stamnecro and 3 magsorc (and maybe a NB), my med setup exploded in seconds. no matter how much i dodge, enemies are able to spray n pray their projectiles with DoT that I can not outheal, dodged, no matter what. i used pots, vigor, current live rally, etc..

but putting on heavy, i can actually last just long enough to pop a second vigor and slowly backing out of LOS...

again, this is stamDK, 2H/2H, full CP PvP, on live. it's hard to test on PTS.

so i can assure you, people WILL die faster when Scalebreaker goes live, TTK will drop significantly, and medium builds will die even faster. and when u die, u deal zero damage. Heavy might be nerfed this time around, but if ur a solo or small-group player, this is the only option.

in a large group tho, yes, med still hits hard...

Yes, thank you for making my point. I usually go with 1 or 2 other friends and we do it in medium. My choices are become a zergling or wear heavy. This thread was meant as a discussion for how to save medium small scale groups of a few people or less.

katorga wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Yes you will eat do damage but you’ll do it with a heal that’s is nearly twice as powerful as vigor + your class heals which are very good + shields. So don’t even start with me about medium being in an equal spot. Tell you what, if you think this to be the case, why don’t you main a medium stam class next patch.

It’s going to depend on what class you play some stam classes will still be better then magicka and vice versa. Stamblade, stamden, and stamcro are still going to be better than their magicka counterparts. While magplar, magsorc are better than their stamina counterparts. Both DKs are pretty much dead even. The most important and strongest defensive ability in this game is movement and as long as stamina is in most cases stronger in that regard they will have a place for small scale PvP.

Overall stamina has the best mobility, strongest defensive option in roll dodge, best CC once the next patch goes live, and best burst damage, while magicka now has the best healing, a range advantage and more group utility. So you can make a case for either one at the moment if you want to open world stamina is better if you want to duel or play BGs magicka is better due mainly to the advantage of being ranged. I think we get into this magicka vs stamina debate too often and instead we really should be comparing classes. Just because magplar and mag dk are op now doesn’t mean the other mag classes are in a good spot.

Epicasballs wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

The healing changes will just make people run more sources of healing such as troll king, lingering pots and Mundus stone.

In another post, someone was asking for lingering pots nerf since stam dk apperantly the only class that use it.

stamDK here.

whats lingering pots? i only use tri-pots and/or immovable pots.

You are lying, you are not a stamdk.

Jokes apart, vitality lingers are pots that grant major vitality for 15s and 1.8ish hps for 45s. Amazingly good pots in tanky characters.

i say tri-pots are good enough....

thankyourat wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Yes you will eat do damage but you’ll do it with a heal that’s is nearly twice as powerful as vigor + your class heals which are very good + shields. So don’t even start with me about medium being in an equal spot. Tell you what, if you think this to be the case, why don’t you main a medium stam class next patch.

It’s going to depend on what class you play some stam classes will still be better then magicka and vice versa. Stamblade, stamden, and stamcro are still going to be better than their magicka counterparts. While magplar, magsorc are better than their stamina counterparts. Both DKs are pretty much dead even. The most important and strongest defensive ability in this game is movement and as long as stamina is in most cases stronger in that regard they will have a place for small scale PvP.

Overall stamina has the best mobility, strongest defensive option in roll dodge, best CC once the next patch goes live, and best burst damage, while magicka now has the best healing, a range advantage and more group utility. So you can make a case for either one at the moment if you want to open world stamina is better if you want to duel or play BGs magicka is better due mainly to the advantage of being ranged. I think we get into this magicka vs stamina debate too often and instead we really should be comparing classes. Just because magplar and mag dk are op now doesn’t mean the other mag classes are in a good spot.

This is discussion abour armor weight. They're adding 2 unavoidable dots to the game while nerfing vigor and removing rally hot. So yes currently dodge is pretty good. But adding more skills to the game that can't be dodged, hard hitting st dots, while also limiting heals puts medium builds at a pretty good disadvantage.

Again it’s going to depend on your class. stam dk, stamden, and dark cloak stamblades will have no problems healing and surviving. Medium is not at a inherent disadvantage. There are situations where light will be better and situations where medium will be better. One huge disadvantage of light is that damage shields have been nerfed in size and are overall not sustainable without more than 2k recovery. As well as light doesn’t have the mobility options of medium so you are forced to eat a ton more damage overall. Shuffle also received a big buff and is now overall the best mobility skill in the game and rightfully so. If medium has the best burst and mobility what’s left for light to have if not the best healing? If medium has better healing than light there would currently be zero reason to run light at all after all the other nerfs it has just received and all the other buffs to stamina.

this.

i just tried being suicidal last night on LIVE server, again comparing heavy vs med armor setup, no CP difference (no med/heavy armor focus invested), and while yes, on character stat screen the difference can be minimum (i only gain a couple thousand HP, a couple % resist, a bit of health regen), the HEALING really makes it noticeable different.

under fire by 2 stamnecro and 3 magsorc (and maybe a NB), my med setup exploded in seconds. no matter how much i dodge, enemies are able to spray n pray their projectiles with DoT that I can not outheal, dodged, no matter what. i used pots, vigor, current live rally, etc..

but putting on heavy, i can actually last just long enough to pop a second vigor and slowly backing out of LOS...

again, this is stamDK, 2H/2H, full CP PvP, on live. it's hard to test on PTS.

so i can assure you, people WILL die faster when Scalebreaker goes live, TTK will drop significantly, and medium builds will die even faster. and when u die, u deal zero damage. Heavy might be nerfed this time around, but if ur a solo or small-group player, this is the only option.

in a large group tho, yes, med still hits hard...

Yes, thank you for making my point. I usually go with 1 or 2 other friends and we do it in medium. My choices are become a zergling or wear heavy. This thread was meant as a discussion for how to save medium small scale groups of a few people or less.

Realistically you will have 2-3 copies of the same dots on you. I don't think any setup other than NB can withstand it without running out of resource, and if you keep them from cloaking, they are toast too.

Yes. Entropy and soul trap cannot be dodged. If roll dodge is meant to be mediums defense how can we mitigate these new skills? If dots ignored bubbles light armor users would be having this same discussion. On top of reduced healing. Rally is a good burst but it lost its HoT and vigor has been nerfed.