Max Out Guild Skill lines with Crowns?

Iccotak · August 2019

How do you guys feel about ZOS making it an option for players to Max Out Guild Skill lines with Crowns?
Is it a 'Pay to Win' system?
Convenient for players that have alot of Alts?
Does this make the Base game less relevant?
Personally I'm not sure how I feel about it - I can see the pros and cons though

Discuss below

Ectheliontnacil · August 2019

I doubt anyone will miss the grind. And if they do, no one is stopping them from levelling guild skill lines the old fashioned way.

Canned_Apples · August 2019

I'm stuck in a loading screen, so I'll say this: It's been discussed already. Multiple times.

HappyLittleTree · August 2019

I stick to my grind routine for new chars.

redspecter23 · August 2019

I have no issues with it. You have to unlock it at least once so you've put the work in before. I suppose if I were to make one adjustment, I'd have the ability to unlock skill lines available only after level 50 so it doesn't affect low level pvp. I suspect it will be a non factor in low pvp soon enough as players will get very tired of paying $25 per skill line (or whatever it costs) each time they reroll.

Siohwenoeht · August 2019

I hope it fails miserably. I don't want zos to be encouraged to continue this monetization of gameplay. Cosmetics, go ahead. If you want to talk about changing how the grind works, that would be constructive. Throwing money at them for "convenience" will only encourage more grind, so you can then pay later to avoid it. It plays right into their hands.

Iccotak · August 2019

This begs the question what should and should not be account wide...
Like Mount training and Outfit slots
I don't think skill lines should be account wide but I can understand why some people think otherwise
However, would this kind of plan encourage the devs to create boring sections of the game and then make pay-for-convenience options?
How about making Guild skill line leveling engaging - rather than what happened with the Psijic mess

Partomax · August 2019

Seems like a weird idea for an MMO to allow players to purchase so many different progress elements but ultimately I don't care.
I wont be buying any of these things just like I didn't buy riding books. Skill lines, skyshards, riding lessons, etc are all very expensive and do not reflect the work you actually have to put in to get them like really 800 crowns for 2 skill points you can get in 10 minutes, who's buying these? 1500 crowns for a vamp bite you can get at any time for free or when they are sold are for less than 1500 gold?
I guess that these things are for those people that have more money than time and would rather pay some money instead of taking a few hours of their free time to grind so they can enjoy the game further. Not the vamp bite that's just a scam taking advantage on naive and misinformed new players who think being a vampire is so very cool.

ku5h · August 2019

Totally indifferent.
I will/would personally only use the Undaunted one.
You get FG trough leveling and MG trough skyshard collecting.
Also, when they add Psijic i'll be all for it, since they managed to make what was supposed to be most exciting questline into most braindead boring crap.

agegarton · August 2019

It really isn’t PTW.

It’s simply a means to bypass grind that you HAVE ALREADY COMPLETED ON ANOTHER CHARACTER.

Ideally, they’ll also add the ability to launch a L50 character so I can also avoid grind another build up to max level.

Linaleah · August 2019

should not have been crown only. should have been purchasable for in game gold (before crown trading gets brought up - nope, you cannot, skill lines can NOT be gifted)

but that's just my opinion.

and no its not pay to win, even while being crown store exclusive. its a cash grab, but its not pay to win. the ONLY skill line that takes forever to max out is pvp skill line, and you don't actualy need to have it maxed out to acess every skill and passive in it. to get those? takes few days of consistent pvping at most, even if you are really bad at it and lose every single battleground you get into.

Jhalin · August 2019

Anyone who buys these is giving ZOS the all clear to make future content as dreary and unfun as possible so they can sell a “convenience” token down the line.

It’s a consumer-hostile marketing gimmick

LordGavus · August 2019

Doesn't bother me.
If people want to play $20 - $25 (guessing) to avoid repeating the grind on an alt, thats cool.

The only place this could have an impact is under 50 pvp. And if people want to blow $25 for a small advantage for a few days, well, its their money.

pod88kk · August 2019

I well NEVER purchase these

agegarton · August 2019

pod88kk wrote: »

I well NEVER purchase these

OK.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2019

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

I hope it fails miserably. I don't want zos to be encouraged to continue this monetization of gameplay. Cosmetics, go ahead. If you want to talk about changing how the grind works, that would be constructive. Throwing money at them for "convenience" will only encourage more grind, so you can then pay later to avoid it. It plays right into their hands.

I agree. It was a brillant move though. Mike the grind so mind numbingly boring and easy , go in multiple directions that a long term player would get frustrated and throw money at them to avoid being bored with a horrible time sink

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

It will be most welcome to not have to beg my PvP friends to take my stam characters along to unlock vigor.
I'll see about levelling psijics the old fashioned way or pay for it on some of my chars.
The rest I'll keep on doing the old-fashioned way, simply because I enjoy it.

There's still an unknown factor to the whole thing : the price.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

It was a brilliant move though. Mike the grind so mind numbingly boring and easy , go in multiple directions that a long term player would get frustrated and throw money at them to avoid being bored with a horrible time sink

Agreed. I was wondering why they made levelling psijics so boring, repetitive and obviously lackluster. I get it now.

SydneyGrey · August 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

Anyone who buys these is giving ZOS the all clear to make future content as dreary and unfun as possible so they can sell a “convenience” token down the line.
It’s a consumer-hostile marketing gimmick

This is definitely the danger with it. Things like the psijic skill line are already a boring, unfun grind. It gives them incentive to create more boring, ridiculous grinds like this.

bmnoble · August 2019

Doubt the vast majority of players will be able to afford the skill lines, since like skyshards they won't be able to have the skill line unlocks gifted for gold.

Don't really consider it pay to win, since you need to have all the skill lines maxed at least once.

All it is, is pay to have a brand new alt, with the selected skill lines maxed, they still need to go hunt down enough skill points to use the desired passives and skills, in addition to their weapon/class skills.

The only minor negative impact on players playing under 50 PVP but they would have to waste money on skyhard unlocks as well to have the skill points they need, those players will quickly level and move up into max level PVP.

Seriously doubt there will be many in the community that would waste that much cash, just to dominate in under 50 BG or campaigns in Cyrodiil.

Nestor · August 2019

Time is money.

Don't want to spend the time, spend the money.

Willing to spend the time, do not spend the money.

It is their Time, or Their Money, they can spend it anyway they want.

Me, the grind has never been an issue.

kargen27 · August 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

It was a brilliant move though. Mike the grind so mind numbingly boring and easy , go in multiple directions that a long term player would get frustrated and throw money at them to avoid being bored with a horrible time sink

Agreed. I was wondering why they made levelling psijics so boring, repetitive and obviously lackluster. I get it now.

I don't really mind leveling that skill line. I take my time and farm resources along the way. Characters I created after the psijic skill line became available I just incorporate it into hunting skyshards and all the other fun things that come with a new character.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

It was a brilliant move though. Mike the grind so mind numbingly boring and easy , go in multiple directions that a long term player would get frustrated and throw money at them to avoid being bored with a horrible time sink

Agreed. I was wondering why they made levelling psijics so boring, repetitive and obviously lackluster. I get it now.

I don't really mind leveling that skill line. I take my time and farm resources along the way. Characters I created after the psijic skill line became available I just incorporate it into hunting skyshards and all the other fun things that come with a new character.

Yes, I do that too with my newest characters, the ones I made after Summerset. But there are still 8 others :-(((
Besides, unlike skyshards and lorebooks, and even undaunted, which you can pretty much level in whatever order you want, where you want, for Psijic you must be on the according quest, do stuff in a certain order, etc... That's annoying as hell.
Really, I hate to think negative of ZOS for the sake of it, but that design is channeling us on purpose straight into the crown store.
I'll probably take the bait (depending on the price) but I'll stick to my strcit policy of not buying extra crowns beyond my ESO+ crowns...

VaranisArano · August 2019

Maybe I'm weird, but I like the Grand Annual Psijic Order Scavenger Hunt. Yes, I've done it on multiple characters.

It was quicker than hunting overdue library books, it had more variety than running circles around the Alikr Dolmens, and it didn't require near as much effort as the Undaunted or Alliance War.

My one complaint (from the PTS onward) is that the psijic map isn't quick-slottable.

Eldartar · August 2019

I say YEAHHHHHH to ZoS for making this available. Happy as Larry the grind will be no more for this Adventurer .....

Gariele · August 2019

I have grinded all my characters skill lines and if I make anymore characters I’ll do the same. But I am interested in what the prices will be. Considering how expensive the Skyshard and outfit slots I’m guessing stupid expensive

Agenericname · August 2019

Gariele wrote: »

I have grinded all my characters skill lines and if I make anymore characters I’ll do the same. But I am interested in what the prices will be. Considering how expensive the Skyshard and outfit slots I’m guessing stupid expensive

The skyshards appear to be 50 crowns per shard, although you have to buy the bundle. So an area with 13 shards would be 650 crowns, and area with 3 would be 150.

Most of the lines I don't have an issue with the grind. Undaunted I would have done for the skill points anyway. Same with alliance war, I was going to pvp some anyway. Fighters guild, just kill stuff. The psyjic, boring after a couple of goes, but I'm not buying it.

I couldn't care less what anyone else does.

Tommy_The_Gun · August 2019

It is a pay-2-win, especially for lower levels PvP Cyro & BGs. But even at higher levels, when you are grinding Alliance War skill line, it will take a while before you will get what you want. During that "while" it is P2W too.

Simple example:
Newly created character has to grind to unlock new skill lines. By the time you will unlock those (Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Undaunted) you will probably be at level 50.

Newly created character that will buy new skill lines & skill points will still be at starter level (3 ? ). So if you level up to level 10 (minimum level required for PvP), you can do PvP with access to fully levelled skills & passives, that will give you HUGE advantage over a player who did not paid. Simply because there is no way to get fully levelled skill lines without paying and still be low level.

ZOS should at least make it so you can buy those skill lines, only if you are level 50. Granted, you have to grind those skill lines on at least 1 character to max them out, in order to buy them. But, when it comes to low level alts - it is a clear P-2-W imho.

VaranisArano · August 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

It is a pay-2-win, especially for lower levels PvP Cyro & BGs. But even at higher levels, when you are grinding Alliance War skill line, it will take a while before you will get what you want. During that "while" it is P2W too.

Simple example:
Newly created character has to grind to unlock new skill lines. By the time you will unlock those (Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Undaunted) you will probably be at level 50.

Newly created character that will buy new skill lines & skill points will still be at starter level (3 ? ). So if you level up to level 10 (minimum level required for PvP), you can do PvP with access to fully levelled skills & passives, that will give you HUGE advantage over a player who did not paid. Simply because there is no way to get fully levelled skill lines without paying and still be low level.

ZOS should at least make it so you can buy those skill lines, only if you are level 50. Granted, you have to grind those skill lines on other character to max them out, in order to buy them. But, when it comes to low level alts - it is a clear P-2-W imho.

Out of curiosity, do you think its P2W to buy mount speed and stamina?

See, those are pretty essential to doing well in Cyrodiil, and it "ought" to take me 60 days for maxed speed and 60 days for maxed stamina, so "while" those 120 days are going, did I pay to win?

Or did I just "pay to skip the grind?"

Taloros · August 2019

Levelling Undaunted by completing all dungeons (normal or vet) is what I consider(ed) content in this game. I don't get why I'd pay not to play the game.

Psijic and mage guild skill lines, on the other hand, are grindy and super-boring ("riding simulator"). I'm tempted to buy these, but it's a stupid solution to an easy problem, and giving in to that gives false incentives.
They could either have made levelling these less boring, or even just them account wide for a lazy fix.

Even if one would argue that they wanted to make it all optional, they could have put them in the store for a token price, e. g. 1 Crown.
But no, they'll try to milk their customers, just as with Skyshards. And there will be people stu... generous enough to give in to that, and it'll earn them money, and they'll make the next skill line even more of a grind-fest to increase sales.
ESO will become completely unfun without spending shiploads of money, some "whales" will protect the game as their own child due to the sunken cost fallacy ("learn to play!", "That how it's always has been!", "Let people spend their money how they want!", "Mass shootings don't have anything in common with gun laws and racist rhethoric from our president!", "I earn a lot of money and have a great real life with two wives and four kids, which is why I play a computer game all day and spent all my parent's money, uhm, my hard earned cash on pixel power!"), and reasonable people will leave.

It's a downward spiral, the beginning of the end.

Money, in a way, is just like Heroin. Once addicted, you just want more until it kills you.

Edit: Turns out I spelled "whale" false. Something new to learn every day.

FlipFlopFrog · August 2019

It's ridiculous. What's the point in even playing anymore? Easier to just hand Zo$ my bank card and get a max level character with the best sets/ weapons, all skyshard skill points and fastest mount etc. That's where it looks like it's heading... Not a fan. I know you don't HAVE to buy it but i feel it takes the fun and competition out of the game.