A simple idea on how to fix the medium armour issue

notyuu · August 2019

You know the issue I mean, the one where they have literally no way to combat dots, lacking the resist of heavy, the sheild of light and due to purge costing an ungodly amount of magicka it's not reliable....sooo here's a proposla on how to resolve the issue

Take the Improved sneak passive from medium armor and replace it with DoT resistance...say, 2/4% per med armour piece per rank

simple, no?

also for those of you wondering, they could bake the passives of improved sneak into Improved hiding from the legerdemain tree

RealPhoenix · August 2019

Not a bad idea. Would have to test values ofc to make sure it does not overperform, but medium armor definitely has issues handling dots so its a good start.

wheem_ESO · August 2019

So medium builds would get 20-28% reduction on DOT damage and full uptime on Major Evasion? Sounds super legit for my Magicka Necromancer to go up against, considering that literally all of my worthwhile damage is either a DOT or AOE. Unless of course you expect me to kill Stam builds with Ricochet Skull spam.

Might medium armor need some improvement? Sure, but so does light. I think a lot of stam players grossly overestimate shields, especially in any engagement larger than 1v1 (where dodge spam outstrips shields to the nth degree).

As an example, on a premade Magicka Necromancer with no CP spent (to simulate BGs or no-CP Cyrodiil), wearing Necropotence, Bright-Throat's Boast, Skoria, 3x Arcane Jewelry, 1x tri-stat enchant + 6x max magicka enchants, and using tri-stat drink, I have a maximum magicka of 39,635 (including +2% max magicka from 1 Mage's Guild skill on the bar). What does Harness Magicka actually absorb under those circumstances? 6,141. Problem is, this build will absolutely not be viable as-is, since the physical resist is 15,913 buffed, with both Skoria pieces being heavy. You know how long a 6k shield lasts in no-CP with resists that low?

If we change the build up a bit, and assume that damage will be such that most magicka builds are forced to run a defensive 5 piece set, and that Necromancer's sustain is bad enough to demand a set like Lich (and the sustain *is* quite bad), that shield size absolutely tanks. On the same character as before, switching to Buffer of the Swift, Lich, Skoria (hey, gotta have at least one damage set if you're going to go for an offensive build, right?), 3x Protective Jewelry, 3x tri-stat enchants + 4x max magicka enchants, and tri-stat food, Harness Magicka comes in at 4,184 (with 22,458 physical resistance). So the resists are more reasonable, and you get defense from the Swift 5 piece of course, but who wants to use a shield that can't even reach 4.2k and costs 3,856 magicka? (and that's with Breton + light armor passives)

Ragnaroek93 · August 2019

I don't think that this would be enough to be honest. The best bet is probably hoping that 5.1.4 will hit the live server, that the upcoming uproar is huge and that ZOS is forced to change something. I don't see a place for medium armor next patch, knowing that ZOS is too stubborn to ever revert some nerfs. Medium armor isn't even underperforming, it's outright *** now.

Nerftheforums · August 2019

Honestly I agree, the dot resistance should not be there, it is a fix to a *** up issue - 30k dots against 12/15k hots doesn't have many outcomes.

Medium either needs more mobility, crit res or some *** like that. Tackling the dot issue should be something thst transcends medium armor

master_vanargand · August 2019

Medium Armor passive skills need change.
But, ZOS ignores Medium Armor.
I don't expect anything from ZOS.

Jodynn · August 2019

Sneak on medium armor has always tilted me, so many passive are useless but this one takes the cake.

Secondly, I think shuffle should have a HoT, stam needs another passive heal than freakin 4s vigor, since momentum no longer gives one.

I guess stam going to backbar resto since reverberating bash is now useless.

Saril_Durzam · August 2019

master_vanargand wrote: »

Medium Armor passive skills need change.
But, ZOS ignores Medium Armor.
I don't expect anything from ZOS.

Well, for ignoring Medium Armor, they´re kings of PvE DD for a long time...

Really.

Cant you understand that if you want protection, have to play heavy? Its cool to have max dmg and max protection, unfortunatly thats not possible. Light armor is on a worse place btw, despite the shields and equipping a Resto staff to die slower...

Jodynn · August 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Medium Armor passive skills need change.
But, ZOS ignores Medium Armor.
I don't expect anything from ZOS.

Well, for ignoring Medium Armor, they´re kings of PvE DD for a long time...

Really.

Cant you understand that if you want protection, have to play heavy? Its cool to have max dmg and max protection, unfortunatly thats not possible. Light armor is on a worse place btw, despite the shields and equipping a Resto staff to die slower...

I use light armor and have an easier time not dying on mag than stam in medium or heavy, plus I hate heavy.

master_vanargand · August 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Medium Armor passive skills need change.
But, ZOS ignores Medium Armor.
I don't expect anything from ZOS.

Well, for ignoring Medium Armor, they´re kings of PvE DD for a long time...

Really.

Cant you understand that if you want protection, have to play heavy? Its cool to have max dmg and max protection, unfortunatly thats not possible. Light armor is on a worse place btw, despite the shields and equipping a Resto staff to die slower...

King of Target Dummy?
What is it worth it?
We are talking about PvP.
Can you not understand?

Ragnaroek93 · August 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Medium Armor passive skills need change.
But, ZOS ignores Medium Armor.
I don't expect anything from ZOS.

Well, for ignoring Medium Armor, they´re kings of PvE DD for a long time...

Really.

Cant you understand that if you want protection, have to play heavy? Its cool to have max dmg and max protection, unfortunatly thats not possible. Light armor is on a worse place btw, despite the shields and equipping a Resto staff to die slower...

Wow great, they're king in smashing some bots.

ZeroXFF · August 2019

Sure. As soon as shield strength of the LA shield is multiplied by the number of people attacking you.

Jodynn · August 2019

Sneak is still a useless passive.

Girl_Number8 · August 2019

Ummmm, no, lol. As much as I would luv it, it is a horrible idea.

You must have the same skooma as the dev team.

Iskiab · August 2019

Use 1H - 6M or 2H - 5M and a defensive set.

There are great heavy armour sets for stam, but there are decent medium sets like barkskin.

J2JMC · August 2019

I don't agree with removing the sneak passive simply because ESO's main form of pvp is Cyrodiil, and ganking people operating siege and healers in pvp is a viable tower defense tactic no matter how annoying people find it. Additionally, even though I forget sometimes myself, there are pve players in this game.

I do think something that might be nice would be to make the Athletics passive a "Wear 5 pieces passive". Keep the current values it gives when wearing 5 pieces of medium armor (15% movement speed, 20% dodge roll cost reduction) and then add crit resist (660 at max level). You would essentially be trading mobility (6% extra movement speed and 8% extra cost reduction) for some more durability (10% in crit mitigation). Again though, this is a straight nerf for pve. Which begs the question, assuming my proposal was fine, would buffing the agility or dexterity passives be fine to compensate what PVE loses? Or, would buffing one of those passives combined with my proposed changes to Athletics be excessive?

As an aside, you technically can hit resist cap on the live servers in purple medium armor if you use monster helms that give resistance on their 1 piece bonus and 3 protective. Post patch, even with the nerf to protective, you should still be at 47% mitigation. The question becomes this: are you willing to give up your monster helm to get near resist cap next patch?

Edit: If all your gear is gold, I believe bloodspawn with a reinforced heavy head, chest, and 3 protective will also put you at resistance cap in 5 medium next patch, although I have to wait for it go live to confirm.

Edit 2: I should add that I was using the nord passives (accidentally) and the major resistance buffs when calculating. While the major resistance buffs are a standard assumption, most people probably aren't nord. So realistically, you can achieve approximately 44% damage reduction in medium if you include the items I mentioned in your set-up

BlackMadara · August 2019

Medium armors greatest boon is being able to avoid damage with speed and dodging. DoTs alone won't kill you. Move fast, hit hard, and back off. That is how medium armor is designed. Straight DoT mitigation covers up one of its weaknesses too efficiently.

Nerftheforums · August 2019

BlackMadara wrote: »

Medium armors greatest boon is being able to avoid damage with speed and dodging. DoTs alone won't kill you. Move fast, hit hard, and back off. That is how medium armor is designed. Straight DoT mitigation covers up one of its weaknesses too efficiently.

Move fast? How? Nerfed peed bots? 4s bow speed? 4s speed from quick cloak that costs a fuckton of stam? Sprinting around like a moron? You see, all these options are very expensive in terms of stam usage. If you build to use these tools effectively, your damage will go low enough that you won't be able to hit and run. Your playstyle will be soemthing more like "hit...hit, hit, hit oh *** I'm dead cuz I have 18k resistances and I couldn't afford to stay in melee this long."

Veinblood1965 · August 2019

Fr3ak1n0ut wrote: »

Not a bad idea. Would have to test values ofc to make sure it does not overperform, but medium armor definitely has issues handling dots so its a good start.

Wow I think this is the first post where someone stated someone else's change idea was a good idea. Usually it's all about the reasons why not. Good job!

Davadin · August 2019

BlackMadara wrote: »

Medium armors greatest boon is being able to avoid damage with speed and dodging. DoTs alone won't kill you. Move fast, hit hard, and back off. That is how medium armor is designed. Straight DoT mitigation covers up one of its weaknesses too efficiently.

that's the idea, yes, but in PvP context, there's no way in hell we can move and/or dodge fast enough to avoid DoT.

no way. period. we can't avoid it.

there is NOTHING we can do about it short of nerfing all DoTs.

so the next best thing to "avoid" (notice the double quotes) DoT damage is simply to build resistance for it.

OP idea is a good proposal. i wish there's more u can do, but it's aight.

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Sneak is still a useless passive.

i dunno about u but my med armor stamDK sneaks a lot in Cyrodiil CP......

master_vanargand wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Medium Armor passive skills need change.
But, ZOS ignores Medium Armor.
I don't expect anything from ZOS.

Well, for ignoring Medium Armor, they´re kings of PvE DD for a long time...

Really.

Cant you understand that if you want protection, have to play heavy? Its cool to have max dmg and max protection, unfortunatly thats not possible. Light armor is on a worse place btw, despite the shields and equipping a Resto staff to die slower...

We are talking about PvP.
Can you not understand?

i didn't realize OP is strictly for PvP discussion. Is this the PvP forum?

oh, it's not?

then be mindful whatever result (if any) comes out from this discussion WILL affect both PvE and PvP.

and yes, in PvE world, med is fine. hell, i still like med too for bursting 6k wep damage on my stamDK....