Can we get some more insight from zos on the healing changes?
jerrodbuffington
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It seems that progression type guilds will now have a harder time completing the more difficult trials. We was already using defensive ults and sets to get thru... what will happen now with it being harder to heal execute phases and mechanics like baneful mark.
Give us something. It feels like alot of the content was pushed out of reach for a great number of players.
Give us something. It feels like alot of the content was pushed out of reach for a great number of players.
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SassiestAssassin✭✭✭Also knowing how they’re expecting PvE healers to heal with more expensive, less effective heals*slams a gallon of Respecting Support Roles juice on the table* Take a sip, babes.5 -
The_Auror✭✭✭They don't care.
The game is now being balanced for pvp. Probably trying to throw them some kind of bone since the performance in Cyrodiil is an embarrassment. Oh and the new combat lead is the pvp guy.
Endgame pve has a much lower population that pvp. They likely figured it was worth the loss of a few healers and prog groups to please the few hundred competitive pvpers who are still playing through the lag. A handful of top leaderboard trial groups will find ways to clear so Zos can at least say they are possible to complete.
Changes really don't matter for overland and questing. These can be completed with zero combat knowledge and little effort.8 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭Some insight from "Additional Context on U23 Combat Changes":ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Heyo gang!
We're aware that some content has been designed around old functionality of abilities that existed beyond our standards and might need some sort of compromise in regards to how you engage with it and/or how we balance it. This is something we will be watching closely, however we are not averse to the idea that players might need to adjust their current builds such as running more defensive Ultimates rather than offensive ones, or running more survival enhancing sets, rather than pure damage or buff oriented ones.
So running more defensive ults and sets seems to be exactly what ZoS wants you to do.0 -
jerrodbuffington✭✭✭The people I play with already do this.
As I have said already.Some insight from "Additional Context on U23 Combat Changes":ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Heyo gang!
We're aware that some content has been designed around old functionality of abilities that existed beyond our standards and might need some sort of compromise in regards to how you engage with it and/or how we balance it. This is something we will be watching closely, however we are not averse to the idea that players might need to adjust their current builds such as running more defensive Ultimates rather than offensive ones, or running more survival enhancing sets, rather than pure damage or buff oriented ones.
So running more defensive ults and sets seems to be exactly what ZoS wants you to do.
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ATreeGnome wrote: »Knowing the "why" would make these changes a lot easier to swallow.
Easy or not, with 5.1.4 being the last iteration of this patch the healing changes are final and basically live. Time to adapt.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Cheezits94✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »ATreeGnome wrote: »Knowing the "why" would make these changes a lot easier to swallow.
Easy or not, with 5.1.4 being the last iteration of this patch the healing changes are final and basically live. Time to adapt.
The new playstyle of a healer, with the rotations dumbed down by a lot now (with no need to layer HoTs or send out several orbs, you have plenty of time to apply all the debuffs you are responsible for: PotL, Aether, Berserk... Even Crusher uptime will be A LOT easier due to much longer Blockade duration…) doesn't look very appealing or challenging to me though.
I think I'll rather "adapt" by going back to being a DD main.
Edited by Cheezits94 on August 5, 2019 9:59PMIf you can't even spell sets, locations and items, you probably have no clue what you even are talking about.
Tamriel, not Tamerial, Temerial or Tamériál
Alkosh, not Alkoash
Dolmen, not Dolman
Olorime, not Oloramie
Sorcerer, not Sorceror3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cheezits94 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »ATreeGnome wrote: »Knowing the "why" would make these changes a lot easier to swallow.
Easy or not, with 5.1.4 being the last iteration of this patch the healing changes are final and basically live. Time to adapt.
The new playstyle of a healer, with the rotations dumbed down by a lot now (with no need to layer HoTs or send out several orbs, you have plenty of time to apply all the debuffs you are responsible for: PotL, Aether, Berserk... Even Crusher uptime will be A LOT easier due to much longer Blockade duration…) doesn't look very appealing or challenging to me though.
I think I'll rather "adapt" by going back to being a DD main.
Do that. I’ll keep healing as I do since 2014.
Edited by Seraphayel on August 5, 2019 10:01PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
apri✭✭✭✭
Either that or jump to the next ship in the harbor. It may be a relief for a couple of players to hop over to other games without regret. ZOS helps with decision-making sometimes. It worked with Morrowind's nerfs and the same can come true anytime again.Seraphayel wrote: »Time to adapt.
If we don't know the whys we can't foresee what is the plan for the future. Is this a temporary fix, is this a temporary test, is this the way things go? Some answers would be wonderful indeed.6 -
Cheezits94✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Cheezits94 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »ATreeGnome wrote: »Knowing the "why" would make these changes a lot easier to swallow.
Easy or not, with 5.1.4 being the last iteration of this patch the healing changes are final and basically live. Time to adapt.
The new playstyle of a healer, with the rotations dumbed down by a lot now (with no need to layer HoTs or send out several orbs, you have plenty of time to apply all the debuffs you are responsible for: PotL, Aether, Berserk... Even Crusher uptime will be A LOT easier due to much longer Blockade duration…) doesn't look very appealing or challenging to me though.
I think I'll rather "adapt" by going back to being a DD main.
Do that. I’ll keep healing as I do since 2014.
Fine too.
But yeah, healing will be fine i guess. It just looks a lot more boring and much less dynamic than what we have on Live server now. Sooo many global cooldowns freed up, buffing and debuffing shouldn't be an issue anymore even for less experienced healers. Good uptimes incoming for all DDs!
If you can't even spell sets, locations and items, you probably have no clue what you even are talking about.
Tamriel, not Tamerial, Temerial or Tamériál
Alkosh, not Alkoash
Dolmen, not Dolman
Olorime, not Oloramie
Sorcerer, not Sorceror2 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭They have to be idiots that don't play their own game. You try playing defensive in hardmode trials and see how far it gets you. ESO is not an attrition game.6 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some insight from "Additional Context on U23 Combat Changes":ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Heyo gang!
We're aware that some content has been designed around old functionality of abilities that existed beyond our standards and might need some sort of compromise in regards to how you engage with it and/or how we balance it. This is something we will be watching closely, however we are not averse to the idea that players might need to adjust their current builds such as running more defensive Ultimates rather than offensive ones, or running more survival enhancing sets, rather than pure damage or buff oriented ones.
So running more defensive ults and sets seems to be exactly what ZoS wants you to do.
You can't teach old doggo a new tricks. In practice average doggo will just QQ for a while instead of adapting, and this is question if doggo will return at all. Well, you may call it purging game of old dogs, freeing place for newbies and clever dogs who can adapt. Sounds good from point of cold reason, in practice it is just a wipe of big part of game population.5 -
ATreeGnome✭✭✭✭Some insight from "Additional Context on U23 Combat Changes":ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Heyo gang!
We're aware that some content has been designed around old functionality of abilities that existed beyond our standards and might need some sort of compromise in regards to how you engage with it and/or how we balance it. This is something we will be watching closely, however we are not averse to the idea that players might need to adjust their current builds such as running more defensive Ultimates rather than offensive ones, or running more survival enhancing sets, rather than pure damage or buff oriented ones.
So running more defensive ults and sets seems to be exactly what ZoS wants you to do.
Except many PvE groups already do this in order to clear content. Are they supposed to start having their DPS run full tank gear?
Top guilds will find ways to adapt without losing much DPS. The novice to mid tier guilds will have a much harder time.4 -
Svenja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »Cheezits94 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »ATreeGnome wrote: »Knowing the "why" would make these changes a lot easier to swallow.
Easy or not, with 5.1.4 being the last iteration of this patch the healing changes are final and basically live. Time to adapt.
The new playstyle of a healer, with the rotations dumbed down by a lot now (with no need to layer HoTs or send out several orbs, you have plenty of time to apply all the debuffs you are responsible for: PotL, Aether, Berserk... Even Crusher uptime will be A LOT easier due to much longer Blockade duration…) doesn't look very appealing or challenging to me though.
I think I'll rather "adapt" by going back to being a DD main.
Do that. I’ll keep healing as I do since 2014.
Would like to do that too.
But do you really think the changes look fun?
I think it makes the trial encounters a lot less dynamic and "stressfull" for me as a healer, things will get a LOT easier for me, to the point where i think it gets too easy to provide good uptimes to the group.
And with the healing power reduced, I don't feel like I am really contributing to the group's success.
> "The useless Healer can't do the job properly, so DDs have to chime in with more heals."Edited by Svenja on August 5, 2019 10:35PMPC | EU
Svea Rochaud | Templar Healer | AD
Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror - Immortal Redeemer - Tick-Tock-Tormentor - Gryphon Heart - Spirit Slayer6 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ATreeGnome wrote: »Some insight from "Additional Context on U23 Combat Changes":ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Heyo gang!
We're aware that some content has been designed around old functionality of abilities that existed beyond our standards and might need some sort of compromise in regards to how you engage with it and/or how we balance it. This is something we will be watching closely, however we are not averse to the idea that players might need to adjust their current builds such as running more defensive Ultimates rather than offensive ones, or running more survival enhancing sets, rather than pure damage or buff oriented ones.
So running more defensive ults and sets seems to be exactly what ZoS wants you to do.
Except many PvE groups already do this in order to clear content. Are they supposed to start having their DPS run full tank gear?
Top guilds will find ways to adapt without losing much DPS. The novice to mid tier guilds will have a much harder time.
DPS skyrocketed within the last year, on bosses without enrage timers / DPS checks mid tier groups can just take one more healer instead of a DPS. There are several ways on how to tackle the upcoming changes, this is just one of them.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
jerrodbuffington✭✭✭If dps is having to chime in with heals then who does the dpsing? Lol
Execute phases get stronger in dmg the further they go. So we can maybe bring 2 extra dd and burn thru the mechanics.. problem is that kind of skill and dps is common for hodor and other tip top guilds. Even in full dmg setup our dps isnt even close to theirs..
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mikemacon✭✭✭✭✭ATreeGnome wrote: »Except many PvE groups already do this in order to clear content. Are they supposed to start having their DPS run full tank gear?
Well, to be fair...the "meta" on Live right now is for healers and tanks to wear DPS sets, sooooooo..Edited by mikemacon on August 6, 2019 12:31AM0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Classic rope-a-dope by zos. Over buff knowingly in the early patches to create havoc and set the meta on fire... with the real intent to be save for the last patch before going live.... I.E. Nerfing things.
Also do not actually take into account any feedback on the forums.Edited by Insco851 on August 6, 2019 1:14AM1 -
jerrodbuffington✭✭✭ATreeGnome wrote: »Except many PvE groups already do this in order to clear content. Are they supposed to start having their DPS run full tank gear?
Well, to be fair...the "meta" on Live right now is for healers and tanks to wear DPS sets, sooooooo..
Not for everyone.0 -
Cheezits94✭✭✭✭✭ATreeGnome wrote: »Except many PvE groups already do this in order to clear content. Are they supposed to start having their DPS run full tank gear?
Well, to be fair...the "meta" on Live right now is for healers and tanks to wear DPS sets, sooooooo..
@mikemacon What dps sets on healers are you referring to? Aether? That's only ONE set out of the four you have in a trial group, and it's simply not viable on a DD nowadays. Who plays Magicka heavy attack builds in an above-average trial group? Right. No one. Because you don't do sufficient damage with that. (I know, I know, you can pull 65k with a heavy attack build, but if all your groupmates on their stamcros simply do 90k without even knowing their rotation properly, then you are not pulling your weight and are not a proper DD in your group, you are a supporter.)
I wouldn't call Hircine, Olorime, Jorvuld etc dps sets. And I wouldn't call Torug's Pact, a set granting you Health and Spell Resistance, a dps set either only because the first bonus is a bit of spell damage..Edited by Cheezits94 on August 6, 2019 8:44AMIf you can't even spell sets, locations and items, you probably have no clue what you even are talking about.
Tamriel, not Tamerial, Temerial or Tamériál
Alkosh, not Alkoash
Dolmen, not Dolman
Olorime, not Oloramie
Sorcerer, not Sorceror8 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭What i really dont get is. Why do PVE guys always expect to clear every content with lowest health, sustain and resistance.
You only need to spec into dps for PVE. But wouldnt it make more sense, that harder content needs you to have more sustain, resistance and health to not instantly die.class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling1 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭OlumoGarbag wrote: »What i really dont get is. Why do PVE guys always expect to clear every content with lowest health, sustain and resistance.
You only need to spec into dps for PVE. But wouldnt it make more sense, that harder content needs you to have more sustain, resistance and health to not instantly die.
Devoid of all context, yes.
However, they design content to be most easily survived by killing things before they can kill you. Mechanics are most easily beaten by being circumvented. This design is pushing healers out of a lot of content that does not have any high sustained incoming damage, a la vHM execute phases.
This means that the more ZoS pushes DPS towards self-sustain, self-heals, and survivability ..... the less healers are needed at all, anywhere.
"You PvP guys" (lol) may like a free for all kind of melee, and that's cool, but many of the PvE players came here to play their preferred role(s) within the Holy Trinity. We were given a space to do that here for years. They even said they specifically wanted to help us avoid feeling pushed out and undesired ... thus, all of us asking them if this really seemed like the best way to do that.3 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭ATreeGnome wrote: »Except many PvE groups already do this in order to clear content. Are they supposed to start having their DPS run full tank gear?
Well, to be fair...the "meta" on Live right now is for healers and tanks to wear DPS sets, sooooooo..
Are we even playing the same game?PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).3 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭I came to this game from GW2 because it had the Healer/Tank/DD roles now I feel like Healers are not wanted so I feel sad about this game and not really motivated to play it anymore. I hope the change they do when it goes live fixes this but who am I kidding they most likely wont.PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).5 -
Gronk✭✭✭Are these standards published somewhere. In a place where the consumer and payer can review them? Are these standards Sigma-6/JSTID/ISO/ASE/AWM order and format. Which standards organization? If no to any of these then those who say standards are ignorant what a standard is. And what they say is their standard is not a defacto standard at all. Just something they heard and most likely do not even know what ISO is
They are changing how we engage their content and their mechanics; as it is easier and more cost effective to change How we engage the content. Rather than devise new mechanics, new dungeons, and new overworld bosses with new types of attacks. It is the same old boss mechanics over and over that have already existed in other games.
Boss stand in middle rain down AOE'; or Stomp, or Wave ,or Conal, or path. Nothing new. Reused assets from other parts of the game
In elsweyr
Dunerippers/nixads/jackals/fell runners just to name a few all reused assets for an expansion with a premium price
Zenimax your customers deserve much better.
And yes we know we do not have to be here.Touche
We also do not have to continue to pay for this. RiposteOld Guard since Jan 2014
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