But when it comes to PvE aspect, I guess "elite" players were simply (from the lack of better word) jealous ?
I have seen numerous ppl saying that WW does not deserve ANY dps. It is Brain-dead, easy rotation etc. , despite WW build doing 2x less dps than regular build, even on a target dummy. (btw. how it is suppose to be complicated rotation with only 1 bar & no ulti ? I would gladly see ww with 2 bars & ulti...)

Well, anyway, congratulations to them because now WW will simply useless next patch, even in something as basic as solo overland, not to mention nMA or vMA.

It is simply sad, if you consider the other skill, Vampire is mandatory for end game content, both pve & pvp, and somehow ppl dont cry about this on forums... maybe they should...

New ww food is a literal slap in the face

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, WW required some kind of rebalance via nerf of base parameters but addition of second bar to compensate, may be allow WW to use class skills only etc... Instead of that plain nerf...

But still they parse way more then average player, so they are still good jump point to clear majority of content.

But about pack leader pets.. they were real 100% cheese. Free dps and meat shield with zero actions from user.

Also did anybody tested new WW food?

How is WW "a good jump point" for any content? Do you realize that in order to hit any decent numbers you need a specific set of gear from TWO very mechanics heavy DLC dungeons that nobody wants to run on vet? After that you still need to run (at least) the NCR Trial content to get the full set of Relequens. Werewolf PvE is not a 'jump point'. Here is the checklist:

1. you MUST run March of Sacrifces dozens of times to get Bloodmoon jewelry and daggers. (nothing other than bloodmoon will do)
2. Run White Gold Tower ON VET and kill vet Molag Kena to get the medium helm (likely to require multiple runs)
3. Run the Cloudrest trial (normal is fine) at least a few times (unless you're really lucky and the group is generous) to get a full body set of Relequen.
4. Get lucky with undaunted keys to get the Kena shoulders.
5. Gold out at least your weapons

You need to do all this before you can do any decent dps with a PvE Werewolf build. (On live, don't even bother with the PTS changes). This isn't a "jump" build because if you can do all this then YOU"RE ALREADY BEYOND THE "LEARNING" STAGE. I'd also like to point out that there are plenty of single bar humanoid dps class builds that out dps even the best WW PVE build on live while having more sustain and survivability.

CynicK wrote: »

When I started playing in bg ww were unfairly strong they bought or got a bite from a friend and they just wrecked grups, light attack bleed for 8k how was that fair plus some other abilities that just did a lot of damage and if you have it close to down he just clicked a button twice and he got almost back to full health when you heal by half in bg and it is very noticeable in most heals.
Well with recent nerfs in bg sometimes when there is a werewolf we kill it in between one or two they are not the terreror they were. I am happy they continue to nerf werewolfs from the pvp aspect of the game but in the pve aspect i do not mind someone has such a radical increase in dps.
I am happy not to see werewolfs runing at me in bg with a killer attitude anymore... poison injection, lethal arrow and waiting for the poison and if he is annoying toxic barrage and he is a dead dogo... I did not had toxic barrage while leveling or poison injection.
When I level alchemy I will make some dubble dot poisons just to kill werewolves I hated it when they were so op.

So you were unhappy because WW were too strong while you were leveling (WW were bugged plus sub-50 pvp is garbage and imbalanced) but now you are killing them easily but you're happy to see them get even more nerfed in PvP because.... why? You're not killing them easy enough?

Honestly I do partially agree with you. The Packleader (white wolf) pets were causing targeting nightmares in PvP, especially in Zoo groups in battlegrounds. Pet targeting in PvP should be a toggle. The game is supposed to be PvP not, PvUI.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, WW required some kind of rebalance via nerf of base parameters but addition of second bar to compensate, may be allow WW to use class skills only etc... Instead of that plain nerf...

But still they parse way more then average player, so they are still good jump point to clear majority of content.

But about pack leader pets.. they were real 100% cheese. Free dps and meat shield with zero actions from user.

Also did anybody tested new WW food?

And why did werewolf need rebalance exactly? Tell me where they overperform, I'll wait.....

(getting zerged in pvp by multiple pack leaders is not a sign that something overperforms btw)

And new ww food/drink is trash.....

Because free self-re-spawning pets are cheese. Because mechanical effort to run WW is simpler then usual specs. So what ZOS should've done is to give WW a second bar with other abilities to increase effort required to run WW, and decrease speed and resistances bonus (and prevent pets from being meat shield).

ZOS instead simply nerfed pack leader into dust

And with what I agree that ZOS still ignores fact that vampire is like must have in PVE min-maxing... and cheesy in PVP too. Yeah vampire suffers from DB but I doubt that outweighs all advantages of being one.

And yet warden has their bear that does dps damage in much of the same way. Takes your ult slots but is free to have running around. The dire wolves were the same, just had 2 instead of 1. Plus there was no damage boost from reactivating the ult. They were not "cheese" in any way. As for effort and being easier to use, i would argue that too.

They may have a much simpler toolkit yes, but utilizing that toolkit and maintaining form requires some learning and skill of its own. Especially when you start involving mechanics from trials and dungeons. You fall out of werewolf form and dps drops into the dirt. You die, dps goes to 0.

Want to add a second bar of skills, awesome, would love to see an expanded toolkit. But at that point the timer should be removed and they should get a sort of class of their own. Werewolf may be simpler, but its no walk in the park easy mode in any content.

I do not really have anything in pve against werewolfs on the contrary until they nerf them with next patch the dps increase is very welcome and as I said I can kill them now in pvp but I am much better equiped with golden weapons monster sets.
What I mean is now the heal does not makes them so strong as they used and they just do not have to light attack you and you almost die of the bleed they are more balanced I think to remember they increased the cost of the heal last patch but i do not have any werewolf so I am not sure but people complainig has to admit that having a heal of 45% the health is a bit too invalanced because other similar heals are 30% what ends in a meager 15% in pvp and before they could just spam it, I would love my dk heal was that good i could use it instead of vigor.
Well what I meant is that I sort of enjoy when I can kill a werewolf because they are strong and I feel some resentment from when I was leveling and they terrorized me on BGs so I see nerfs a little bit positive due to my experiences but after last patch they are killable it was just a way of mean talking I wanted to turn my useless warden into a ww before the nerfs, he is the one with I have so much fun now in bg.
I do think for what i have red the patch notes that they are nerfing pack leader to uselessness no bleed, the pets nerfed and well the reduction of the damage in light attacks that will affect both I do not see they will do that much damage I think that pvp wise they can be killed so I don't know they will be easyer to kill from now on. I am rather new but what I see is that when they nerf something they nerf it and leave it unusable you can throw your toy into the garbage and this is a game and people is supposed to have fun.
Since the patch nerf is not the quantity of ww I find in bg and when there is one you see him strugle, we kill him in between one or two but maybe is what some of you said it is pre 50 bg where ww are op, what I know is that I will not bother into turning my warden into a ww anymore with good equipment he is not that useless.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, WW required some kind of rebalance via nerf of base parameters but addition of second bar to compensate, may be allow WW to use class skills only etc... Instead of that plain nerf...

But still they parse way more then average player, so they are still good jump point to clear majority of content.

But about pack leader pets.. they were real 100% cheese. Free dps and meat shield with zero actions from user.

Also did anybody tested new WW food?

And why did werewolf need rebalance exactly? Tell me where they overperform, I'll wait.....

(getting zerged in pvp by multiple pack leaders is not a sign that something overperforms btw)

And new ww food/drink is trash.....

Because free self-re-spawning pets are cheese. Because mechanical effort to run WW is simpler then usual specs. So what ZOS should've done is to give WW a second bar with other abilities to increase effort required to run WW, and decrease speed and resistances bonus (and prevent pets from being meat shield).

ZOS instead simply nerfed pack leader into dust

And with what I agree that ZOS still ignores fact that vampire is like must have in PVE min-maxing... and cheesy in PVP too. Yeah vampire suffers from DB but I doubt that outweighs all advantages of being one.

And yet warden has their bear that does dps damage in much of the same way. Takes your ult slots but is free to have running around. The dire wolves were the same, just had 2 instead of 1. Plus there was no damage boost from reactivating the ult. They were not "cheese" in any way. As for effort and being easier to use, i would argue that too.

They may have a much simpler toolkit yes, but utilizing that toolkit and maintaining form requires some learning and skill of its own. Especially when you start involving mechanics from trials and dungeons. You fall out of werewolf form and dps drops into the dirt. You die, dps goes to 0.

Want to add a second bar of skills, awesome, would love to see an expanded toolkit. But at that point the timer should be removed and they should get a sort of class of their own. Werewolf may be simpler, but its no walk in the park easy mode in any content.

One of my mains is WW so I know about all those WW problems and nuances and that it requires experience to use properly. But amount of effort, time and experience you need to put into regular dps toon is much higher, so I think WW is still good option for beginners until they farm their CP and proper gear.
And from my personal experience tanking pets are broken. There were so many times when I should've died, but I didn't died because pets distracted boss and I was able to resurrect groupmates without being interrupted. In VMA pets are simply OP, they literally take half of add's attention on themselves.

So my opinion to what ZOS should've do - make all pets untargetable and provide some alternative means to make pet builds, including pack leader versatile.

Some fair points starting out. But your direwolves can't tank any damage in group content like dungeons or trials so resurrecting other players because the dire wolves are "tanking damage" isn't remotely correct. They won't even target the pets in dungeons if you run them solo.

As for vma, still not op. Helpful, but not op. The direwolves die quite easily if they are the target for too long. Usually they will tank a bit of damage to keep 1 or 2 adds off of you at once which is helpful, but they won't hold it for long. They may even kill a few adds to help out, but no where even close to half of the adds focus them. I agree they might need to find some alternative ways to make pack leader versatile, but that's only because of the pts changes at this point.

Werewolves are barely played. The only people that truly play werewolves to devastating effect are people who are 100% hardcore about it.

To be honest, there are only a handful of good werewolves that play it actively.

So what does this mean?

People barely run across them, so most people have no clue how to counter them. AND the few that you do run across are so damn good at playing one, that they wreck your face. This gives the impression that werewolves are somehow overpowered. Werewolves are not overpowered. People are just ignorant in terms of how to fight them.

Here’s a few tips:
1. Werewolves skill costs are very high. Immobilize and snare them and their effectiveness goes down by half because they are out of stamina breaking free and chasing after you.

2. Werewolves run on a timer that requires them to get a kill to feed to keep werewolf form up or pouncing to keep it up. Just kite them and wait for their timer to run out.

3. Werewolves that are built to be strong in wolf form have crappy humanoid setups. Kill them before they transform or wait for them to lose timer and transform back to humanoid.

4. Werewolves can hit the heal button about 3-4 times before their Magicka bar runs dry. It’s costly to heal so defiling them is very effective to make them less tanky.

Sorcs - Keep your distance with speed and streak.

Nightblades - Just cloak and wait for timer to run out.

Templar - Cleanse their bleed dots away.

Warden - Use your speed to keep your distance. Your dawnbreaker burst combo does extra damage to werewolves.

Dragonknight - Defile, immobilize, and dot them to death with your poisons.

Necro - Run

Werewolves are not overpowered but the community is ignorant and too lazy to learn.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, WW required some kind of rebalance via nerf of base parameters but addition of second bar to compensate, may be allow WW to use class skills only etc... Instead of that plain nerf...

Oh hell no ! Could you Just imagine a NB WW Who could just spam cloack to get away ?! 😂

Lisutaris wrote: »

After "bleed tick" fix, on live, they are perfectly fine. At least for PVE they are neither garbage nor overperforming. Scalebreaker is killing ww packleader for pve and Berserker is still underperforming. *shrugs*

WW RIP August 11th 2018 - August 12th 2019

Ww was grossly op