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What's ZoS' plan for balances passes? Classes next? Passives next?

Aedrion
Aedrion
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In the 'Additional Context on U23 Combat Changes'- thread, Brian Wheeler mentions that this latest patch is designed as part of a large scale balance pass for ESO.

We've seen a patch like this before with the racial changes and now with this patch which seems to have the intent to entirely overhaul all of the basic, non-class skill lines.
The stated goal for this huge patch is that they wish to have a good baseline to progress into more balance patches in the future.

Personally, I think that is a great idea and regardless of whether or not you like all of the patch changes, it's hard to deny the game needs a shake-up.

But I wonder what's next? That's the intended line of balance passes here?

- Racials
- Skill Lines
- Passives?
- Classes?
- Consumables and Crafting?

Right now, people are rightfully saying that we'll all be slotting a lot less class skills because so many other skills have been made useful or buffed. This begs the question if a large class overhaul is also coming that'll make sure class skills are unique skills that generally offer a little more than a basic guild-skill. When I look at the new skill lines, I find some good reason to use almost every skill in some way or form.

When I look at some class skills, I wonder why in the world anyone would pick that morph or slot that skill. Some class skill morphs are 90% the same and offer little to nothing other than what they already offered with the base skill. Encase -in my opinion - is one such offender. Offering pathetic morphs while the skill remains identical.

So! Can we expect, in light of these huge sweeping changes, class overhauls that make all class skills and morphs unique and desirable? Can we expect a big look at passives, some of which are just completely useless for certain classes? It feels like we're halfway our destination, but us players have little to no idea where we're headed next.

Please advise.
  • OwnerOfSuccuby
    OwnerOfSuccuby
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    The next = they will kill the game and close server - becouse every one go away in other games.

    Happy end.
  • blnchk
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    Passives will be addressed in a future update. We wanted to hit the Actives this patch and are looking at applying these standards/audit to more Actives in the future. It's a lot to go through but we'll get there =)

    So, yes, passives will follow. Probably come Q4.
  • John_Falstaff
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    When I think of class passives being balanced next, I recall that old joke, one that pokes at relationships between writers and editors. "Telegraph pole is a well-edited Christmas tree." ^^
  • MartiniDaniels
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    The next = they will kill the game and close server - becouse every one go away in other games.

    Happy end.

    True, sitting in WoW for 2 weeks already and no regrets. Of course I still logon to ESO for couple of raids and to do some trading but if new patch will be a disaster in practice, I will probably rest for a while to see what U24 will bring. I am absolutely tired of "adapting" each patch, I want to play, I don't want to level guild skill lines non-stop.
  • Abhaya
    Abhaya
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    @MartiniDaniels classic incoming
    Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
    Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=169103
  • Pr0Skygon
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    The next = they will kill the game and close server - becouse every one go away in other games.

    Happy end.

    Please fix "every one" into "only I and a few others".
    Edited by Pr0Skygon on August 1, 2019 1:53PM
  • katorga
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    Better level one of every class, because the passive 'audit" will be a wrecking ball.

    ZOS better get their game on because Amazon is entering this market.
    The next = they will kill the game and close server - becouse every one go away in other games.

    Happy end.

    True, sitting in WoW for 2 weeks already and no regrets. Of course I still logon to ESO for couple of raids and to do some trading but if new patch will be a disaster in practice, I will probably rest for a while to see what U24 will bring. I am absolutely tired of "adapting" each patch, I want to play, I don't want to level guild skill lines non-stop.

    Man they do radically change the game every 4 months or so. If you don't spend a good bit of time keeping up with the changes, the game must be super disorienting. Casuals are going to be still wearing 7th and casting rapids two months from now thinking what the heck.

    The passive 'audit" will be a wrecking ball. For example, NB 15% regen is likely going to be changed to 100 health, 85 mag/stam because "standards".

    ZOS better get their game on because Amazon is entering this market.
  • MartiniDaniels
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    katorga wrote: »
    Better level one of every class, because the passive 'audit" will be a wrecking ball.

    ZOS better get their game on because Amazon is entering this market.
    The next = they will kill the game and close server - becouse every one go away in other games.

    Happy end.

    True, sitting in WoW for 2 weeks already and no regrets. Of course I still logon to ESO for couple of raids and to do some trading but if new patch will be a disaster in practice, I will probably rest for a while to see what U24 will bring. I am absolutely tired of "adapting" each patch, I want to play, I don't want to level guild skill lines non-stop.

    Man they do radically change the game every 4 months or so. If you don't spend a good bit of time keeping up with the changes, the game must be super disorienting. Casuals are going to be still wearing 7th and casting rapids two months from now thinking what the heck.

    The passive 'audit" will be a wrecking ball. For example, NB 15% regen is likely going to be changed to 100 health, 85 mag/stam because "standards".

    ZOS better get their game on because Amazon is entering this market.

    Exactly, I have ton of ideas, but I don't want to have new builds being wrecked by U24 and I don't want to play outdated builds. If devs released at least preliminary changes for passives it will be another talk, but I guess after new leaked notes everything will be turned inside out again. Or all classes will be entirely the same.
  • OwnerOfSuccuby
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    Pr0Skygon wrote: »
    The next = they will kill the game and close server - becouse every one go away in other games.

    Happy end.

    Please fix "every one" into "only I and a few others".

    Ok you will stay alone here - not all - just all ckever enought to go away ))

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/569924607327338517/606469342007394324/RDbgJRCavc4.png

    https://pp.userapi.com/c858236/v858236994/2f1c9/nSVmP2Nzq1U.jpg

    I will merry my character on Nageme - to not let her be boring untill the game will be balanced back to the old game not this bulltrash
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Abhaya wrote: »
    @MartiniDaniels classic incoming

    Well, i think ESO will have much better server performance in first weeks of classic launch :D
  • Xvorg
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    Abhaya wrote: »
    @MartiniDaniels classic incoming

    Well, i think ESO will have much better server performance in first weeks of classic launch :D

    Though it is not a bad idea to go back to the old subscription system IF ZoS grants us decent servers and a playing style that makes sense...
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Abhaya wrote: »
    @MartiniDaniels classic incoming

    Well, i think ESO will have much better server performance in first weeks of classic launch :D

    Though it is not a bad idea to go back to the old subscription system IF ZoS grants us decent servers and a playing style that makes sense...

    I think things will sort out by themselves. If ZOS won't start doing right decisions, players will leave and so performance will be better for remaining players. Tbh, I didn't have notable problems even in January-February. Yeah there was occasional lag in trials and of course in cyro with huge groups.. but I don't play PVP when huge groups begin to gather in peak hour, so I don't care about that. They seriously messed up something in spring. Or maybe huge wave of Skyrim's players came to see Elsweyr.
    As for now game is awful in peak hour. I logged on today in the evening and bar swap was taking 1-2 seconds to complete. I logged out in 15 minutes, because no point to do anything with such lag.
  • WrathOfInnos
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    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.
  • Razorback174
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    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.

    If gutting class identity and eliminating the role of healers was what it took for them to get to spellcrafting, I'd be happier if it never made it into the game at all.
  • itsfatbass
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    They have stated that class passives are in the works for rebalance soon.
    ~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~
  • Wuuffyy
    Wuuffyy
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    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.

    If gutting class identity and eliminating the role of healers was what it took for them to get to spellcrafting, I'd be happier if it never made it into the game at all.

    No. I really think that is a good tradeoff.
    Wuuffyy,
    WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
    ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
    -DM for questions
  • Runefang
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    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.

    The concept of spellcrafting and classes just feels like they doesn't go together to me though, I don't look forward to this idea. I'd rather class identity OR spellcrafting but not both.
  • blnchk
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    Runefang wrote: »
    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.

    The concept of spellcrafting and classes just feels like they doesn't go together to me though, I don't look forward to this idea. I'd rather class identity OR spellcrafting but not both.

    Yeah, I don't see how Spellcrafting can lead to anything different from what we'll be facing now: the same generic skills for everyone.
  • Xogath
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    blnchk wrote: »
    Runefang wrote: »
    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.

    The concept of spellcrafting and classes just feels like they doesn't go together to me though, I don't look forward to this idea. I'd rather class identity OR spellcrafting but not both.

    Yeah, I don't see how Spellcrafting can lead to anything different from what we'll be facing now: the same generic skills for everyone.

    Even if it didn't, I do hope everyone realizes how utterly limited it's going to be.

    If it even gets brought to this game, it's going to be nothing like how everyone wants it, both sides of the coin will argue, and it will ultimately end up useless except maybe for small utility "spells" or something.

    There's so much more this game needs to worry about more than Spellcrafting:

    1. PvE and PvP need separated in SOME way, whether its secondary coefficients or PvP gear; anything.
    2. Overall game performance needs to go up. This game performs like trash compared to others, and it's a shame honestly.
    3. Server stability is already an issue for EU folks; Cyrodiil latency is at an all-time high, and overworld latency for NA has gone up ~30% since Elsweyr launched.. it needs to be addressed.
    4. Developers need to be a little more transparent with us about what's going on, what they're doing to resolve issues, etc. These once-a-blue-moon "letters" and then sweeping it under the rug for three quarters of a year isn't cutting it.

    I don't know why they seemingly want to continue losing revenue over bad reviews and such when they could be addressing all of this piddly *** and receiving nothing but praise.
  • Aedrion
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    itsfatbass wrote: »
    They have stated that class passives are in the works for rebalance soon.

    Citation needed.
  • frostz417
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    If class passives are next in the Q4 update then God help us all.
  • FakeFox
    FakeFox
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    There is no plan behind a little child randomly putting together building blocks just to tear them down again.
    Edited by FakeFox on August 3, 2019 11:28AM
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • Rehdaun
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    Next they will change whatever they think is causing lag and call it a balance change. I suspect that's what they have been doing the last couple of patches. Makes sense if you look hard enough. Class or race, skill or passive, it doesn't matter. All that matters is fixing lag.
    Although I agree that they should fix lag, I do not agree with their method, causing complete chaos in order to achieve their goal.
  • Iskiab
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    blnchk wrote: »
    Runefang wrote: »
    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.

    The concept of spellcrafting and classes just feels like they doesn't go together to me though, I don't look forward to this idea. I'd rather class identity OR spellcrafting but not both.

    Yeah, I don't see how Spellcrafting can lead to anything different from what we'll be facing now: the same generic skills for everyone.

    Yea, spellcrafting sounds like a horrible idea to me.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Finedaible
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    I thought they were 'auditing' sets next?
  • CambionDaemon
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    They have stated that Spellcrafting isn't going to happen. They need to redesign the original four classes from the ground up, not just look/ruin the passives.
  • Wuchtdrescher
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    Best balancing idea we push all guild skills and nerf all class skills and finshed balancing fast as hell!
  • idk
    idk
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    katorga wrote: »
    Better level one of every class, because the passive 'audit" will be a wrecking ball.

    ZOS better get their game on because Amazon is entering this market..

    I have seen Amazon's work on New World. Yes, I liked the PvP in the game but it is a much simpler combat system than most major MMORPGs have plus the rest of the game is much simpler. Then again for PvP I tend to like games designed for it.

    If you look at their other two titles, looks like a race car game and a BR, it seems their work is on pretty simple types of games. It will be interesting what their plans are for the recently announced MMO.
  • MashmalloMan
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    Not sure about what’s next, but I’m hopeful that all this standardization is laying a framework for the introduction of Spellcrafting, possibly with the Q4 2019 DLC or the Q2 2020 Chapter.
    Maybe this is a sweeping generalization, but this is the forums so..

    People who don't want spell crafting just want to play the same game, with the same rotation, with the same sets for the rest of this games life cycle because they're scared of change and their scared of what ZOS could do with it.

    You lack imagination if you can't understand why it would be a good thing from a game design perspective and could work really well with classes not against them. I know it would sell a chapter release easily, so from a financial standpoint it would be wise for them. Whether you hear ZOS talk about it or not, it's been on the table for them for years. The feature was 1 of the strongest parts about Oblivion, that they removed for Skyrim. It's perfectly suited for a "play as you want mmo".

    Meta changes every patch whether we like it or not, why not add something that really shakes the gameplay up. It wouldn't take much to make people use different abilities so not every build uses the same thing. ZOS is already making a standard for ability types that would translate easily to a spell crafting ruleset.

    Class passives and CP need an overhaul before that happens since the current game would lead to everyone picking the bis fire spell, etc.

    It's time ZOS gives the power of cp back to the classes to make them unique again.
    @MashmalloMan - PC NA

    PC Beta - 2400+ CP
  • Cinbri
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    I would say after auditing class active skills and weapon/guild active skills they will focus on passive skills, especially class and armor passives.
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