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Perspective for Healers in new PTS

Vindaomeyo
I read much about the dreaded cuts to the healer role in the classes in several threads and decided to check some things for myself.
Well, there are some common things all healers have as I noticed playing all classes as healers in ESO. These I checked first.
I checked 2 classes -Templar and Dragonknight- throughroughly and the rest in gear checks, theory and calculations so far on the PTS and I want to give my 2 cent about it to you all and the devs.:
I have to verify the rest of the classes as well with the general findings I got on the first 2 classes and the meta there, but it looks promising.

First of all, many wrote they would have to use braindead Rotations as DDs do:
Well, yes and no.

If you really used all your means as a healer, you already had rotation parts you could use for higher heal output, but you could very well do without them using some tweaks or easier ways like spamming of energy orbs and stacking of Grand Healing and its morphs, but the Heal was adjusted and Skills were changed to make this up. But you have to decide if you want to heal or do good damage.
As an example for this I used as a templar the following rough queue in the old patch (annotations for the new rotation and maths about it are added in brackets):
Pre-Hotting with Rapid Regeneration and initial Minor Berserk Buffing with Combat Prayer on the way to the next ob group or boss. Using a sunfire morph for minor sorcery (buffing the group) and myself with Major Prophecy and generating ultimate, if I was the only templar in the trial I would use Power of the Light instead for Minor Breach and Minor Fracture. Then I'd use either a potion for Major Sorcery or the mages Guild skill structured Entropy to do the same.
This results alone in a net bonus of Minor Berserk (+8% Damage -don't let the name fool you, weapon/spell damage is also healing and it is confirmed to add to the healing of the used resource pool for HoTs and Direct Heals.) plus Minor Sorcery (+10% Spell Damage - also plus Heal ;) ) plus Major Sorcery (+20% Spell Damage).
This will push the following Cleansing Ritual Morph Healing by 38% -this is all additive atm, but it will be multiplicative, which will be a bit higher-, which adds plus 8% Healing due to Minor Mending (Sacred Ground Passive) and of course the +0 to +12% of the passive (Mending) for missing Health on Players.
After this, a full heavy attack with your healing staff pushes it further by Major Mending (+25% Heal) for 3 Seconds.
You want to lay your biggest aoe-hot-heals first in this condition, which means you may have to recast Combat Prayer by now, if not, just use your Cleansing Ritual Morph and revel in the numbers, while using one of the following as you need it: Grand Healing Morph / Panacea Morph / Rite of Passage Morph / Regeneration Morph or Energy Orb (both today preferably spammed to get as many with the highest bonus as it will mostly retain its bonus it had on cast time in future the Orb would be one of the first ones used after the Ritual).
If you need it, you can use this as a starting point for single heals and regeneration by heavy attacks (remember the +25% Heal for 3 Seconds if something has to be renewed) or even damage with Puncturing Strikes Morph or Support with Luminous Shards.
If there is not the time for the whole rotation, I'd start with Combat Prayer, Cleansing Ritual Morph(if needed) or another big heal and when the situation is more stable to return to the normal rotation.
Things like Major/Minor Sorcery and Minor Mending have a long uptime, so these are the ones to keep up, the other ones are weaved into it.

Grand Healing was very versatile for healing people outside of the major healing zones, as was the Energy Orb and the long running Regeneration Morphs.
The Devs took that versatility away to force DD Classes to take a self heal into their bar, as some did not have that for damage rotation.
Since Vigor was balanced for those versatile heals from Healers, it is now buffed, which makes Stamina Healers more viable than ever.
Every Class seems to have an aoe heal of at least 5 m reach (DK Cinder Storm, NC Life amid Death, WD Life Bloom, SC Power Surge 2.6k on crit ~ should be out in the same ball park, but I'd have to check high rotation times), that is on par with the raw healing of the Circle of protection (5m reach, but 0.5 second steps) as well as with the healing of the illustrious healing with 8 m reach ~1.6k per second. The energy orb is movable with about 2/3 of the hot of the other aoe circles, but it can be synergized more than once and heals roughly 7.5k without any modifying buffs.
As a side notice, the rushed ceremony morphs of the templar, which were the bread and butter spam to reach someone in need are pretty useless as of now, as you can only reach someone who is in sight. So for the biggest healing aoe hot circle they lost the undirected rescue heal.

As a Healer I'd want those 2 Heals (Vigor and Ring of Preservation) badly, as they are good, but they do not scale well with magicka, even with the Set Pelinal (Spell Damage and Weapon Damage are set to the highest of both values) for Templar and Dragon Knight, they remain at the bottom end and are 1/2 to 1/3 of the Healing of a Stamina DD, though they are slightly better then without Pelinal. They are tools to work with, but with the danger of loosing survivability, so you'd have to use each only once in a rotation to give the stamina Pool time to regenerate or you have other means to regen Stamina.

Well, I could use my Rotation Fragments well for the group healing, but it takes a lot of foresight and battle awareness to pull this off and your versatility to keep people alive outside of your main heal zone is limited. The actual heal with the usage of the bonuses is pretty much the same, if not higher, but it takes more effort. 4 times stacking Grand Healing in old times meant solid 4.8 k heal, now you have to use about 3-4 skills with 1.6 k heal and scale them up with those buffs which will be at ~50% realistically if things get hectic in a fight. But that means, 2 skills would suffice to reach the same heal output. You can stack them higher or you could still use one of your circles to help out someone outside and in spike you can get much higher with your heal.


For the other Healer option I hinted at: I noticed that if you use the Pelinal Set with Stamina as your Main Pool (for Templars and Dragon Knights), Magicka Healing Skills scale better with this Set than the other way around in the newest patch. (Weirdly enough, this is not the case with Wardens, they work with either Pool just fine as main Pool. Have to test it for Necros, Sorcs and Nightblades again) It is slightly lower in Magicka Heal than a pure Magicka Healer, but you gain the full force of the Stamina Heals and you use both pools, meaning one is regenerating when you use the other and you can always regenerate resources actively.
If you want to use such a hybrid build as a new Stamina Healer you need to change from light Armor to Medium Armor pushing your Weapon Damage (and heal) by 15%, but loosing 20-28% Magicka Regen and 10-14% Magicka Cost and Spell Crit and Penetration are down.
Also you need a means to regenerate stamina actively and push that weapon damage and Healing further up. So Dual Wield Swords are not too bad for this and on your second utility bar you need your Restoration Staff (Asylum Sanctorium is best in slot for obvious reasons [-30% cost for 3 sec], but not necessary).
Since the formula for all skills looks a lot like this x(Main Resource or Fixed Resource) + y(Spell or Weapon Damage) + z(Constant Value for Skill or Type of Skill) we want to have Stamina as Main Resource, but enough Magicka to actually do something with it and the regen to go with it.
So we take Stamina as Main Stat in Attributes and use Tristat Runes on all the Armor Parts we have and end up with 21k Mag, 20k Health and 31k Stam.
The Pelinal Set itself would be done with invigorating trait to replace the lost regeneration and the Monster Set could be free or also with it. Feel free to do as you like, Argonians could easily take other traits for instance, as I will mention below.
Sets with 6% cost reduction for all are pretty good with this build, but Champion of the Hist is also a thing to think about, as you could fill up your ult faster and use it to heal/buff(e.g. with Life Giver Morph) and even lose the Combat Prayer from the Skill bar as it is included in Life Giver.
Even Heem-Jas' Retribution could work well in some trials with constant trash in fights, as Major Berserk also pushes the heal.

This Set uses those Race Bonuses best:
Dark Elves (Mag and Stam Pool + Weapon/Spell Damage +++
Redguard (Stam Pool and Stam Cost Reduction) ++
Khajit (Regen, All Pools and Crit Heal) +++
Nord(Stam Pool and Ult Regen) +
Breton (Mag Pool, Mag Recovery, Mag Cost) ++
Argonian(Tristat Potion for free, Mag Pool, +6 % Heal) +++
Bosmer(Stam Pool and Recovery) +
Altmer(Recharge works both ways, Mag Pool, Spell Damage is lost due to Pelinal Mechanic afaik or you'd have to base its Pool on Magicka) ++
Orismer(Stam Pool, Weapon Damage) +++

Monster Sets could be Balorgh or Molag Kena (or the Combination of both) or any other suitable weapon/spell damage or Heal Set.
The result is a set, that gets you with damage plus race passives, damage enchantments and damage buffs a really good 5 tier damage/healing bonus, while using both Pools with good regeneration.
Not enough to switch all healers to Stamina Heal or even the set though, but it works well and has a large healing output.


Now for the Rotation Fragments of the other classes that should work:
Dragon Knight
Ignaeous Weapon (Major Sorcery and/or Brutality +20%) holds 42 seconds as a starter, Cauterize (Major Prophecy for crit heals and Heal or Savagery with the other Morph as Stam Healer), Fragmented Shield ( Major Mending +25% Healing, +Minor Brutaliy +10% Weapon Damage for Group with Passive,+ ult generation) could be swapped with Heavy Resto Staff Attack if needed for Major Mending for 3 Seconds, Combat Prayer/Life Giver(Minor Berserk +8% Damage), Illustrious Healing, Cinder Storm, Echoing Vigor, Ring of Preservation, Energy Orb (most likely 2 of those mentioned after Combat Prayer are missing out for other skills, but they are pretty exchangable, not the Orb for trial regen though!). Rescue Options would be Obsidian Shard as a directed heal to help out, Magma Shield or Life Giver ult, or the fragmented Shield again with Heavy Resto Attack (it also heals, remember this)
This is straightforward and pretty easy to play, but the diected heal via damage on an enemy is a pain in the ass. I'd just swap it for Healing Ward, just to loose the bother there.

Nightblade
This is an odd one, but funny as hell.
Drink Weapon Damage Potion for initial Buff of Major Brutality, set Reapers Mark on a mob most likely to die fast for Major Berserk(+25% Damage -and heal, just as a reminder for jumping readers) and for Minor Savagery for the group, when you deal critical damage with the skill in bar, Heavy Resto Staff Attack for heal and Major Mending (+25% Healing done) for 3 seconds (can be switched with Healthy Offering and vice versa, if a fast big heal is needed), Healthy Offering for direct heal and Minor Mending (+8% Healing)+ ult regen + 3% Heal +8% Max Magicka for skill in slot, Sap Essence for aoe damage and Heal and Major Sorcery (+20% Spell Damage), Refreshing Path for a large healing area half of hps of what similar aoe hot circles would do -but with the boon of Major Ward and Resolve + 3% Health for you and Major Expedition of your Group Members, Combat Prayer for Heal and Minor Berserk(+8% Damage), Grand Healing Morph, Ring of Preservation, Echoing Vigor, Energy Orb. Spammables would be Funnel Health (good to trigger the minor Savagery for the Group as mentioned before) or Regeneration Morph here as a big direct heal is missing here. Rescue Options are Bolstering Darkness for a large synergy heal + Major Protection (+30% Damge Reduction), Soul Siphon for plain heal/hot and synergy damage/hot and Major Vitality (+30% Healing received), Healing Ward, Life Giver.
This is one of the harder Rotations as you have not much time to bring out your best healing circles and the reapers mark buff can be pretty rng. But it is a nice utility buff for the group and welcome extra damage and heal. But instead you have the best Healing and Damage Reduction Buffs in the game at your disposal with a really high ultimate regeneration to begin with. Spam with them, you have it. After using them is a perfect time to refresh refreshing path, you can go higher than 100% bonus with your buffs, making it one of the largest healing zone skills with around 1.6k hps buffed. All spells after it just go higher in their zones as well, ring of preservation would top of at 3.2k hps and Vigor reaches even higher.

Sorcerer
Well, Sorc Healers are really a strange thing, and it is best to see their class heal abilities as supporting abilities (they are strong as hell though). Mainly it is Power Surge as a Buff of Major Brutality and Sorcery for yourself, which lets you heal around 3k hps if you crit every second.
I still have to measure its reach, but it seems farther than the usual 5 m here. The Absorption Field Ult heals with ~2.4k hps in 8 m radius. Twilight Matriarch will heal 2 for ~6k , but it has to be summoned and is not viable in some fights.
Bound Aegis is a self shield and max Magicka Buff (+8%) and gives by passive +8% Health + 20% Health and Stamina Regen. Empowered Ward is just a group Buff for 10 Seconds for Minor Intellect (+10% Magicka regen) .
Each class ability slotted pushes Weapon and Spell Damage by +2% up to 12 %.
Makes a fickle design point there for a rotation and bar design. Any dark magic skill buffs the group with minor Prophecy (+spell crit).
This Class has the least native Bonuses for healing buffs, but the best survivability, if those skills are in the bar.

You might start with Power Surge and Lightning Flood there to get basic healing out.
NOTE: Combat Prayer with Minor Berserk, Major Berserk, the Nirnhoned Weapon Trait or magicka/stamina above the attribute pool do not affect this Skills Heal at all, but the Powered Weapon Trait affects it, making this officially a weird skill to have. A heavy resto staff attack (Major Mending 3 sec) just works for the 3 Seconds, making this basically worthless for Power Surge, but you could push the Heal with the Healer set of the Dragonstar Arena for Minor Mendings 8% (more Magicka is better though due to the Support Nature of the Build).

With this in place you could just go happliy about doing damage to deal crits and using Twilight Matriach Heals in little groups for rescue option or use single instances of Energy orb, Echoing Vigor, Grand Healing Morphs, Ring of Preservation, Healing Ward or Regeneration Morphs to heighten your ground Heal.

Any of these options may suffice and this class is the one of the best magicka support roles/DD in one person in my opinion. As you could easily pump out 3-4k hps to 7k hps (crit heals are possible!) while doing damage with just your power surge and your Absorption Field as support. The only thing that really sucks is that only powered would up Power Surge, but hey, due to the mechanism I'd take Precise and high CPs Points for Crit Heal instead.

In combination with Minor/Major Vitality of other classes you could push Power Surge above 4k per second for the runtime of it. Strange is this behaviour as many hots and Zones still retain their bonus got at cast time. This seems to rely on the buff nature of the heal, which is basically a reaction to the crit of your damage skill.
All plain Healing Bonuses change its heal, making the Naga Shaman and Hollowfang Thirst Sets really good sets for main healing Sorcs as they can push the heal up to 7k crits and 4k normal ticks. A combination of two Monster Sets for +8 % Healing done is also viable, but the damage goes down then and the heal upwards. Have to test it further.

The Twilight Matriarch still profits from the Berserk Buffs, but it is not shown in the skill description. When you cast under their influence, the heal is proportionally higher. This counts for the Absorption Field as well. It profits from Berserk and Major Mending for its whole runtime, so buff stacking is wise there.

This makes the Sorc one of the easiest and one of the hardest healers at the same time. Base design is support heal by crit dps and you heal people near yourself regardless of were your crit happens (lightning flood!!). Which is missing if you stack resto staff abilities to use them over damage skills. You might profit from other main healers Buffs, but you would have to have alerts for their usage on to bring out your hots/circles reactively as you do not have much to buff for yourself.
In sync played with a templar or nightblade healer for their buffs this could be very sweet, as it is high dps and good base heal for just 2 Slots "lost" for healing abilities.

Warden
The Warden has more native options in healing and buffing that are situative, but this makes it a strong heal stacking class as well. And it seems to never run out of resources if the netch is used well. And he has a great Ultimate Regeneration, which makes the Ult a viable Heal Rotation option.
Major Prophecy/Savagery from the Netch, automatic Major Mending from Heals under 40% Life of someone with Green Balance Skill Tree, Minor Berserk and Major Expedition from Bird of Prey, Major Mending from Resto Staff Heavy Attack, Minor Toughness and 250 Resource for the lowest Pool (every second) on all Green Balance Heals and Minor Intellect and Endurance on Enchanted Growth are the class/weapon options.
Prefight starting with Ice Fortress (Major Resolve/Ward for Group (8m), Minor Protection), Bull Netch(Major Sorcery/Brutality), Shimmering Shield(Major Heroism and Shield), Enchanted Growth(Minor Toughness), any Lotus Morph(+Heal on Attack for Group Heal), Combat Prayer/Life Giver (Minor Berserk), Healing Seed Morph. In fight Resto Heavy Attack (Major Mending), Combat Prayer/Life Giver(Minor Berserk, could be left out if Bird of Prey is on Bar), Healing Seed Morph/Ring of Preservation/Energy Orb/Echoing Vigor. Maybe Leeching Vines (Life Steal), Bursting Vines (Ult Regen) or even Combat Prayer/Life Giver again to keep Minor Berserk up (one of the options will likely be dropped from the bar, my money is on the Vines Skills in favor of RoP and Energy Orb). Then start over with Heavy Resto Attack. After 2-3 Rounds, recast Ice Fortress, Bull Netch, Shimmering Shield, Enchanted Growth, any Lotus Morph. Check your Buff Bar Addon for this.
Rescue Options are Healing Thicket, Northern Storm, Polar Wind, Enchanted Growth or Leeching Vines.
This is a straightforward Rotation. Anything in your sight lives, the rest dies to say it bluntly. Ok, some Heals can be placed, but it is harder to get rescue Heals to the victim of a pummeling. The Twilight Set from Maw of Lorkhaj might help as the Warden has many Synergy Skills, which can be used, if they are used and it provides minor force to the synergy healed.


For Necromancers I have to follow up later, but the basic principles should be the same for them as stated above.
Generally spoken, the Necro Corpse Mechanic can make it very strong in ultimate regen or HoT circles. The healing spirit needs debugging as it seems, as it has odd healing behaviour sometimes.(There are other threads which mention this, so I'll spare you the details.)

In Conclusion (tl;dr):
Not all is lost, Magicka Heal is still viable with basic Rotation Fragment Rules. Stamina/Magicka Hybrid Healing with Stamina as main pool with Pelinal Set is quite the easy mode for Templars or Dragon Knights. Wardens could use either Magicka or Stamina as Main Pool. Nightblades, Necroes and Sorcerers have to be checked up for this again. Some class heals are strengthened and normalized with aoe hot circles/zones to make them interchangeable with each other for switching the side effects of the heals. With Rotation you just need to stack 2-3 to reach the old hps, the rest is bonus as long as you are not a sorc. Sorcs are the best DD/Support Healers atm with Power Surge as long as they can do damage and crit. Nightblades are the hardest to play, but with the best buffs to the general healing. Templars have a nice circle heal, but lost their good recue heal. Dragon Knights have Shields, a 5m native hot circle, but a terrible rescue heal.

I hope this helps and gives a bit of food for thought to test other ideas and builds.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Jesus man, could I get a TL:DR? And not the page you have at the end of your dissertation.

    kt4DqEP.jpg
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on August 2, 2019 2:30PM
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    TLDR: using pelinals and medium he can get his sp higher then with light armour sets. While true, overlooks the 30% hit in crit you take as a healer and the big loss of sustain.

    In pve 30% crit is a lot because of crit modifier CPs, plus with the increase in the cost of abilities the light armour passives are more important.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 2, 2019 12:34AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Vindaomeyo
    Jesus man, could I get a TL:DR? And not the page you have at the end of your dissertation.

    kt4DqEP_d.jpg

    It is at the end, the last Paragraph.

    "In Conclusion (tl;dr):
    Not all is lost, Magicka Heal is still viable with basic Rotation Fragment Rules. Stamina/Magicka Hybrid Healing with Stamina as main pool with Pelinal Set is quite the easy mode for Templars or Dragon Knights. Wardens could use either Magicka or Stamina as Main Pool. Nightblades, Necroes and Sorcerers have to be checked up for this again. Some class heals are strengthened and normalized with aoe hot circles/zones to make them interchangeable with each other for switching the side effects of the heals. With Rotation you just need to stack 2-3 to reach the old hps, the rest is bonus as long as you are not a sorc. Sorcs are the best DD/Support Healers atm with Power Surge as long as they can do damage and crit. Nightblades are the hardest to play, but with the best buffs to the general healing. Templars have a nice circle heal, but lost their good recue heal. Dragon Knights have Shields, a 5m native hot circle, but a terrible rescue heal."
  • Vindaomeyo
    Iskiab wrote: »
    TLDR: using pelinals and medium he can get his sp higher then with light armour sets. While true, overlooks the 30% hit in crit you take as a healer and the big loss of sustain.

    In pve 30% crit is a lot because of crit modifier CPs, plus with the increase in the cost of abilities the light armour passives are more important.

    No, that is selling it short. Main Part is about rotation and if you could reach the same healing as before and how for most of the classes.
    Pelinal is just another healer option looked at for a hybrid model to get more heal and sustain out of it, as I mentioned in my text.
    With it CP would take both 30% crit bonuses in the Apprentice and the Atronarch. You lose the spellcrit in light as I already mentioned, but gain 15% Weapon (and Spell damage) with it as well as stam crit.
    If you use both pools, you'd need both CP Bonuses. Sustain was mentioned specifically with possible mitigation ways and if you use one pool, the other recovers faster if you do not jump too much between magicka and stamina skills in your rotation.
  • danara
    danara
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    Well, unless you can have a combinaison of spells that can give you 9k6 hps (3 * 3k2, this is my healing output on live with healing springs)

    You ll have to explain me : how to pass through :
    - vCR+3 execute phase
    - vHoF execute phase
    - lokkezitz hm
    I mean... Most of the Best guilds right Now cant pass through this on pts. And you know why ? Because these fights are designd around grand healing spam. You sayed that now dps will add a self heal in their rotation, Just asking you this :

    what is the point to bring 2 healers in the group if 2, dd with echoing viguor can do better ?

    Be carefull also, there is a lot of non sensé in your text (not saying that every thing is bad!). You speak about some buff that you dont have 90% of the time in most class except dk .. (major mending Best example).

    You also mention good buff but these are self buff : major/ward resolve for example, the only class that can give you this buff is warden. You also mention major protection from NB, well unless you can have 100% uptime on it or access to it when you need it, you cant rely on it.

    You also mention some spell like "reapers mark".. Well the debuff provided by RM is useless cause the tank already put it with his taunt, and major berserk is good to have yes but lets be realistic... On a boss fight ? How do you keep up this buff when there is no add to kill ? A boss without a lot of add is like 99% of the eso boss fights ?

    Well as a conclusion i disagree with a lot of your thoughts, but that s your thoughts, and i respect that ! It is intersting to think about "hybrid healer" more than "magicka/stamina healer". I am not sure about the gears you mentioned. But i ll definitely give it a try, you convince me.
    Keep in mind something when you construct a build if you reduce the sustain on a class that already have sustain problem... It ll be hard to manage, and healing is about ressources management, if you take away the few sustain the dk has, i dont Know if it is possible for this class to do this..

  • Vindaomeyo
    danara wrote: »
    Well, unless you can have a combinaison of spells that can give you 9k6 hps (3 * 3k2, this is my healing output on live with healing springs)

    With Rotation Fragments for the group healing, this is possible, but it takes a lot of foresight and battle awareness to pull this off and your versatility to keep people alive outside of your main heal zone is limited.
    All aoe hot circles are normalized to about 1.6 k heal uncritted. Vigor is at 2.4 k, Power Surge is an Oddity that can go up to 3-4k on a Magsorc just doing damage. Energy Orb is at 1-1.1k, but the synergy usage can push it to 7k if used in a row by all -which is pretty rng and is not likely to happen- but I have a strong hunch it normalizes to Vigor there with the synergy effect.

    Scaling all of those heals up with buff rotations will be at ~50% realistically if things get hectic in a fight. But that means, each stack would get you around 2.4k uncritted and about 4-5k critted. If your buff rota is perfect, each could go up to 3.2k uncritted and 6-7k critted.
    As a pure healer you'll lose dps abilities to stack those heals, but you'd need 2 (with good crit) to 4 (safe route) stacks of the aoe hot circles. For instance for DK this would be Cinder Storm, Illustrious Healing, Ring of Preservation, Echoing Vigor or Energy Orb and his Shields.
    For the Templar it is Cleansing Ritual, Illustrious Healing, Energy Orb, Life Giver(when using good Ult reg set),Echoing Vigor, Ring of Preservation and/or Ritual of Rebirth as rescue.
    This is why I meant Hybrid is easier as a healer as you can get to 4 more easily, but you can also do it with pure magicka/stamina Build if you use crit heal and rotations for buff stacking.

    Also the change to Sorc Power Surge means, you can have Sorc DDs pushing group heal by 3-4k uncritted just holding up their Power Surge Buff and critting with every source of damage and heal there is. A friend of mine gets to 95% crit chance on his sorc so he would keep up the 3-4k heal on the group for every seconds and that heal would also crit 95% of that time.
    They will be crucial in those Phases.

    Just getting Stamina DDs to carry Vigor would not do the trick if I see it correctly (have do do more research here) as they would overwrite or just prolong the runtime of each others hot in spam after everyone has the hot portion of Vigor, but Rings of Preservation stack nicely, so in trials it would be better to use that in those phases.
    They have 0.5 sec ticks that amount to 1.6k unbuffed and 2.4k buffed and 4-5k critted per second.
    Which makes RoP one of the strongest trial heals for stam DDs to have.

    To Major Mending: Everyone with a Restoration Staff can buff himself with Major Mending for 3 seconds after a full heavy attack. I tested this and it works just fine.

    To Major Ward/Resolve for the other classes it is mentioned for the self buff for survivability. When used for Group Buff it is written there, but I did not always recount that every time the Buff from that source pops up afterwards. You could use mighty glacier set though, if a warden is missing in the trial group.

    On Reapers Mark: As I mentioned, it is pretty rng, but a nice addition in crowded boss fights with lots of adds like Cloudrest. You just need to have it on one of the new mobs to die as you said it: on the main boss it is useless as the tank provides that there. I play a lot with the SWAPS Addon to change skill fast accordingly to the boss fight I am going into, so this is a thought for those boss fights to keep a better rotation. (My Rotations are pretty fluent that is why I write about Rotation Fragments much)
    On another class as NB you could sport the Heem-Jas' Set for this situation. I tried it for a test and it was quite funny, but the sustain is down with it in most cases.

    I am happy to hear what your tests of a hybrid healer with other sets or with buff stacking on normal builds will provide as insights.
  • danara
    danara
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    Yeah major mending can be get by all class but considering that you get it for 3seconds and it take 2 seconds to drop a heavy attack i think it is a unreliable when it is coming from resto staff

    For reapers mark, it only give you major berserk for 5 seconds... And even on CR where you have a lot of add, i dont think you can reach 5% uptime on it... But, i didnt knew that berserk modify your healing done and it still good to know ;)

    My problem with the new change is that, for example with sorcerer, heals can be proc when you do (critical) damage, in order to make Sorc healer relevant, this heal should proc only on critical heals. The othermorph should be maybe a health cost spell (like that it is the same for magicka and stamina), and it should be a better heal than the new power surge but only on you.

    Again, dps can do same heal as healer (maybe even more) with power surge... And this is a conception problem to me.

    Any way your thoughts are very interesting, i dont approach healing the same way you do, but it is a pleasure to talk with you ! :) i ll try it as soon as i can and give you a feedback ;)

    A little question, i am curently working on NB healer, and i have a question for Next patch, as a burst heal (like BoL from templar) what do you prefer : the new Healing Ward or Healthy Offering ? (considering that Healthy Offering put a debuff on you that can easily by nullished and it also give you Minor Mending)

    And what do you think of the new sap essence (reduce 300 weapon damage?) I like to compare this spell with mending set (reduce 430 weapon damage) because they are similar and mending is still good to have on trials in my opinion. Do you prefer to run with or without mending ? Is it worth it to you to have both ? I dont Know the impact of getting 730 weapon damage réduction (PVE OF COURSE).

    And last question, do you use sap essence as a "spammable heal" or just to apply debuff and get Major Sorcery ?
    Do you also rely on funnel health ? Many People dislike it, i think it s a good "passive heal", like if you heal for 50% of damage every 2 seconds on 2 People it has to be something like 10k heal,m (maybe even more if you apply Debilitate for Minor magicka steal instezd of elemental drain) i think it s not bad at all, better than Necro ghost or DK cauterize... But i dont have enough maturity on NB healer to say it so... You thoughts could be very usefull to me :)
  • actosh
    actosh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Power extraction is 200 not 300. Tested on pts with a buddy and it seems @ZOS_GinaBruno made a typo in the first pts notes.

    Will be using it as nb tank I think.
  • danara
    danara
    ✭✭✭
    actosh wrote: »
    Power extraction is 200 not 300. Tested on pts with a buddy and it seems @ZOS_GinaBruno made a typo in the first pts notes.

    Will be using it as nb tank I think.

    Good to know ty

    So they messed up on the pts patch note ? Or they messed up on the spell implementation ?
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Jesus man, could I get a TL:DR? And not the page you have at the end of your dissertation.

    kt4DqEP.jpg

    It is at the end, the last Paragraph.

    "In Conclusion (tl;dr):
    Not all is lost, Magicka Heal is still viable with basic Rotation Fragment Rules. Stamina/Magicka Hybrid Healing with Stamina as main pool with Pelinal Set is quite the easy mode for Templars or Dragon Knights. Wardens could use either Magicka or Stamina as Main Pool. Nightblades, Necroes and Sorcerers have to be checked up for this again. Some class heals are strengthened and normalized with aoe hot circles/zones to make them interchangeable with each other for switching the side effects of the heals. With Rotation you just need to stack 2-3 to reach the old hps, the rest is bonus as long as you are not a sorc. Sorcs are the best DD/Support Healers atm with Power Surge as long as they can do damage and crit. Nightblades are the hardest to play, but with the best buffs to the general healing. Templars have a nice circle heal, but lost their good recue heal. Dragon Knights have Shields, a 5m native hot circle, but a terrible rescue heal."

    i said 20 word or less, that page you have quoted there is 175 words.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on August 2, 2019 2:30PM
  • actosh
    actosh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    danara wrote: »
    actosh wrote: »
    Power extraction is 200 not 300. Tested on pts with a buddy and it seems @ZOS_GinaBruno made a typo in the first pts notes.

    Will be using it as nb tank I think.

    Good to know ty

    So they messed up on the pts patch note ? Or they messed up on the spell implementation ?

    Haven't received a answer from zos and I pointed out either tool tip or patch note is wrong.

    Would love to see pe getting a value of 300.
    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam
  • Vindaomeyo
    actosh wrote: »
    danara wrote: »
    actosh wrote: »
    Power extraction is 200 not 300. Tested on pts with a buddy and it seems @ZOS_GinaBruno made a typo in the first pts notes.

    Will be using it as nb tank I think.

    Good to know ty

    So they messed up on the pts patch note ? Or they messed up on the spell implementation ?

    Haven't received a answer from zos and I pointed out either tool tip or patch note is wrong.

    Would love to see pe getting a value of 300.
    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam

    Thanks for sharing this. I will have an eye on that too, I guess.
  • Vindaomeyo
    i said 20 word or less, that page you have quoted there is 175 words.

    Take each sentence for each class as its own tl;dr, then it should just be fine. Some things should not be crammed on one Powerpoint Page.

    But if you'd prefer that, here is the neolitic tl;dr version:
    Magicka Rotation Build good.
    Hybrid Build good.
    Zone Heal Normalization works.
    Stacking Zones good.
  • Vindaomeyo
    danara wrote: »
    “Yeah major mending can be get by all class but considering that you get it for 3seconds and it take 2 seconds to drop a heavy attack i think it is a unreliable when it is coming from resto staff”

    That is why I do it at the begin of most fights or when I am using a heavy attack to reg Magicka. It is in my muscle memory to recast Combat Prayer and Cleansing Ritual Morphs on my Templar after that, resulting in 33% Bonus (Mending/Berserk) plus 20% Spelldamage from Major Sorcery, which I keep always up for the Cleansing Ritual. If I am still standing in my old own Cleansing Ritual, I get +8% from Mending as well there. Most of the time I can squeeze one more cast into this before Major Mending ends, but if not, it still gets 16% from Minor Mending and Berserk plus 20% out of Major Sorcery, which is not bad. I tend to place interchangeable skills with similar usage at the same place in the bar for each class of mine to keep that muscle memory on going.
    danara wrote: »
    “For reapers mark, it only give you major berserk for 5 seconds... And even on CR where you have a lot of add, i dont think you can reach 5% uptime on it...”

    5% Sounds right, but when it procs and it is used on longer running aoe hot circles like Cleansing Ritual or Illustrious Heal its effects can be quite significant for a longer time. But an alert for this specific Buff must be set up to use this in a fight. Green flashes or something like the Sorc Dark Crystal Proc Warning is about right.
    danara wrote: »
    “My problem with the new change is that, for example with sorcerer, heals can be proc when you do (critical) damage, in order to make Sorc healer relevant, this heal should proc only on critical heals. The othermorph should be maybe a health cost spell (like that it is the same for magicka and stamina), and it should be a better heal than the new power surge but only on you.

    Again, dps can do same heal as healer (maybe even more) with power surge... And this is a conception problem to me.”

    Well, if the Sorc wants more than 3-4k hps he’d have to drop damage skills and Power Surge only gains by Healing Done/Healing Taken/Powered, which is prohibitive as long as you do not do a full 12 Sorc trial run, which would be possible I presume. But going on full Heal with Heal Crit Procs, this works pretty well both ways as stamina or magicka healer, but the good + Healing done Sets are pretty much all Magicka, so that would be the way of a pure sorc healer. Interestingly, in the current Patch, I am playing my Argonian Heal Sorc as Hybrid because gulping a potion after Vigor gets me an instant refresh there and it is one heal more 😉.
    danara wrote: »
    “Any way your thoughts are very interesting, i dont approach healing the same way you do, but it is a pleasure to talk with you ! i ll try it as soon as i can and give you a feedback ”

    The feeling is mutual, thanks a lot for your feedback.
    danara wrote: »
    “A little question, i am curently working on NB healer, and i have a question for Next patch, as a burst heal (like BoL from templar) what do you prefer : the new Healing Ward or Healthy Offering ? (considering that Healthy Offering put a debuff on you that can easily by nullished and it also give you Minor Mending)”

    I see Healthy Offering as a combined Buff with a good heal to start a Rotation, combined with Combat Prayers Minor Berserk for you and the Group and its Heal, you get 16% Bonus. Healing Ward is a very good rescue heal as it hits the one with the lowest Health with high Heal Burst that gets a real good push by those 2 Skills before. With good timing you could go like this on a needed Burst Scenario: Healing Ward -> Heavy Resto -> Healthy Offering -> Combat Prayer -> Healing Ward or even an Ultimate. This ramps up the heal after an initial needed heal and you can stack other heals on it as well, recasting CP and *** when needed and regenerating actively when the Ward is up again.
    For NB an Ultimate Build based on Minor Heroism Sets or Potions is quite good as Life Giver (Resto Staff Ult) casts its own heal, your Regeneration Morph(without it in the Bar!), your Healing Ward and your Combat Prayer and you have room for other Healing/Support Skills on the Bar. The ultimate Regen of NB is just too good 😊.
    danara wrote: »
    “And what do you think of the new sap essence (reduce 300 weapon damage?) I like to compare this spell with mending set (reduce 430 weapon damage) because they are similar and mending is still good to have on trials in my opinion. Do you prefer to run with or without mending ? Is it worth it to you to have both ? I dont Know the impact of getting 730 weapon damage réduction (PVE OF COURSE).”

    Well, personally I do not like the Mending Set much because of its issues at the start, but it is a good damage mitigation set nontheless. It tended to only get Mobs in line of sight in your zone (bumps on the floor be damned!) or be bugged on tilted floors. You had to be on the same Z-Axis in 3D Space to really hit the mobs or do not get that buff. It should be much better nowadays, but I have not tested it in ages. Minus Damage on my Staff as Enchantment I used on several occasions though as it was directed and quite good in damage mitigation.
    So sap essence will be strong in mitigating damage of incoming groups and healing their first dps storm.
    danara wrote: »
    “And last question, do you use sap essence as a "spammable heal" or just to apply debuff and get Major Sorcery ?”

    Well, for incoming groups I could start with it just debuffing, lay another heal there, use *** and CP or use it as quasi spammable in that group Rotation. It would work there as spam as long as there are more than 3 Mobs standing. (it is the same calculation as spamming Steel Tornado with a DD, if it hits less then 3 Mobs, it is too cost intensive in its ratio.). It is a bit of a question on belief -aside from Major Sorcery, which is easily obtained otherwise- a situative group dps and heal is quite good in burst heal situations, but an allround fight debuff on bosses and groups is something equally worthwhile. If you tend to keep the same bar configuration in all fights, I’d go for the Debuff. If you’d use Swaps and take Skills in on 1-2 Slots as needed for a fight, sap essence as a damage/heal skill is very powerful (as I have seen it often in Cyrodiil fights.)
    danara wrote: »
    “Do you also rely on funnel health ? Many People dislike it, i think it s a good "passive heal", like if you heal for 50% of damage every 2 seconds on 2 People it has to be something like 10k heal,m (maybe even more if you apply Debilitate for Minor magicka steal instezd of elemental drain) i think it s not bad at all, better than Necro ghost or DK cauterize... But i dont have enough maturity on NB healer to say it so... You thoughts could be very usefull to me “

    Funnel Health is quite good and easy to play with. It is my kind of rescue heal to go on a Nightblade in 4-Player Groups.
    I have to test a theory about the Maelstrom Arena Cruel Flurry Set there, if Funnel Health or Malevolent Offering count as a single target dot. I presume not, but if it is, it would be really fun. Entropy Morphs should work as well as Twin Slashes for Self Heal and Dps in non Trial Scenarios.

    For the spammable Vigor Question I had, there is a thread discussing exactly that topic with trial logs. As it seems, the first tick of a spammed Vigor Heals in every case, but other casts will reset the hot part, making the last cast (or highest? This is not sure yet.) the one ticking after that. So the need to assign Vigor Casters in the Trial group and Ring of Preservation Casters is there, but you could muddle through with just spamming (not good and a big resource loss, but hey.)
    Here is the Link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487557/so-vigor-will-stay-op-as-hell/p3
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    4 times stacking Grand Healing in old times meant solid 4.8 k

    How can you get so low healing with 4 stack ? It's 9k+, not 4k..
    Their is a lot of non-sense, situational and wrong number in your post.
    I appreciate your effort, but take care about wrong information.

    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • Vindaomeyo
    @danara
    It seems the forum thinks of the abbreviation of Healty Offering as something naughty :o . So set the 3 asterisks in my previous post to it.

    For about 430 damage reduction I remember a post on reddit saying it amounts to 25% reduction on trial mobs, but I cannot find it anymore.
  • Vindaomeyo
    Aznarb wrote: »
    4 times stacking Grand Healing in old times meant solid 4.8 k

    How can you get so low healing with 4 stack ? It's 9k+, not 4k..
    Their is a lot of non-sense, situational and wrong number in your post.
    I appreciate your effort, but take care about wrong information.

    Yes, with crit and buff stacking as stated as well in my post, it is higher and in trial gear and so on it is at 9k and higher, but you'd need the average uncritted and plain number version as a starting point for about this.
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    4 times stacking Grand Healing in old times meant solid 4.8 k

    How can you get so low healing with 4 stack ? It's 9k+, not 4k..
    Their is a lot of non-sense, situational and wrong number in your post.
    I appreciate your effort, but take care about wrong information.

    Yes, with crit and buff stacking as stated as well in my post, it is higher and in trial gear and so on it is at 9k and higher, but you'd need the average uncritted and plain number version as a starting point for about this.

    Dude, it's non-trial gear and self buff.
    It's way higher full buff. Hell it's not even with major and minor mending.
    Edit : and no need crit to achieve that lol.

    Sorry to ask that but, are you really playing healer ?
    Edited by Aznarb on August 2, 2019 12:18PM
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • FakeFox
    FakeFox
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The primary problem healers have with the current PTS is not providing enough benefits to a group to be worth while. Running things like Pelinal, crippling your support even more, for honestly no reason doesn't fix that.
    Edited by FakeFox on August 2, 2019 12:34PM
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • Vindaomeyo
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    4 times stacking Grand Healing in old times meant solid 4.8 k

    How can you get so low healing with 4 stack ? It's 9k+, not 4k..
    Their is a lot of non-sense, situational and wrong number in your post.
    I appreciate your effort, but take care about wrong information.

    Yes, with crit and buff stacking as stated as well in my post, it is higher and in trial gear and so on it is at 9k and higher, but you'd need the average uncritted and plain number version as a starting point for about this.

    Dude, it's non-trial gear and self buff.
    It's way higher full buff. Hell it's not even with major and minor mending.
    Edit : and no need crit to achieve that lol.

    Sorry to ask that but, are you really playing healer ?

    Yes, indeed. Try to follow the thought line here:
    All normal aoe zone heals were normalized to a value around 1.6k heal uncritted with basic gear.
    Stacking Buffs would get ~50% to ~100% per set of that zone. Buffing that heal to 2.4k (50%) or 3.2k (100%). Adding CP and better gear would get the single instance of such heal higher.
    Now stack this heal 4 times and you get to 4.8k uncritted, unbuffed and with noCP. Buffed you get 9.6k (50%) to 12.8k (100%).
    And with Crit Heals and Trial Gear added you go way higher. I am talking 15k upwards here if you do the math. Why 50%? Well it is Minor/Major Mending, Berserk and Sorcery thrown into an average with factors like Healing Taken CPs. It would not win precision awards, but you would gets the picture were the heal numbers would be roughly.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Now I haven't read everything you wrote, obviously, but you seem to think berzerk, both minor and major, amps healing, it does not. Tell me I am mistaken?
    . This results alone in a net bonus of Minor Berserk (+8% Damage -don't let the name fool you, weapon/spell damage is also healing and it is confirmed to add to the healing of the used resource pool for HoTs and Direct Heals.)

    Like that right there, this statement you make is demonstrably false. Minor berserk is only for damage. It has no impact on actual healing. At all. This makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on August 2, 2019 1:20PM
  • Vindaomeyo
    FakeFox wrote: »
    The primary problem healers have with the current PTS is not providing enough benefits to a group to be worth while. Running things like Pelinal, crippling your support even more, for honestly no reason doesn't fix that.

    Well in a 12 Player Group each one could spam a 2.4k-4,9k hps (uncritted) to heal for the first tick and one going further down as hot or stacking Ring of Preservation for 2.4k (uncritted) for the critted value look on your CP Tree for your Pools Crit Healing and calculate it.
    This would add up to about 28.8k-50k (conservatively guessed here), maybe even higher and then you'd have to think that those could crit too.
    But you'd have to have roles assigned for shielding, buffing and so on. Something often healers would do now, which diminishes the dps on those DDs.
    The Healer Role still has its place, but a trial group has to talk about, who contributes what to the group.
    The Best Healer/Supporter Roles from my Point of view would be Nightblades(Major Buffs), Templars(Large Heal Zone, Dispell, Minor Sorcery, Group Minor Magickasteal), Dragon Knights(Shields, Minor Brutality) and Wardens (Major Buffs on Group, Minor Lifesteal, Minor Toughness). I cannot say enough about Necro Healers though as I have to still test them in the new PTS.
  • Vindaomeyo
    Now I haven't read everything you wrote, obviously, but you seem to think berzerk, both minor and major, amps healing, it does not. Tell me I am mistaken?
    . This results alone in a net bonus of Minor Berserk (+8% Damage -don't let the name fool you, weapon/spell damage is also healing and it is confirmed to add to the healing of the used resource pool for HoTs and Direct Heals.)

    Like that right there, this statement you make is demonstrably false. Minor berserk is only for damage. It has no impact on actual healing. At all. This makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.

    I have tested it multiple times over the years and on that PTS. It works.
    Use the Minor Berserk Monster Set or Combat Prayer for your tests on PTS and cast a HoT or Heal directly afterwards in the Buffs runtime. It will profit from it.
    An already running HoT or Zone Heal is not affected though, only the ones cast at that specific time when the Buff is up.
  • danara
    danara
    ✭✭✭
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    FakeFox wrote: »
    The primary problem healers have with the current PTS is not providing enough benefits to a group to be worth while. Running things like Pelinal, crippling your support even more, for honestly no reason doesn't fix that.

    Well in a 12 Player Group each one could spam a 2.4k-4,9k hps (uncritted) to heal for the first tick and one going further down as hot or stacking Ring of Preservation for 2.4k (uncritted) for the critted value look on your CP Tree for your Pools Crit Healing and calculate it.
    This would add up to about 28.8k-50k (conservatively guessed here), maybe even higher and then you'd have to think that those could crit too.
    But you'd have to have roles assigned for shielding, buffing and so on. Something often healers would do now, which diminishes the dps on those DDs.
    The Healer Role still has its place, but a trial group has to talk about, who contributes what to the group.
    The Best Healer/Supporter Roles from my Point of view would be Nightblades(Major Buffs), Templars(Large Heal Zone, Dispell, Minor Sorcery, Group Minor Magickasteal), Dragon Knights(Shields, Minor Brutality) and Wardens (Major Buffs on Group, Minor Lifesteal, Minor Toughness). I cannot say enough about Necro Healers though as I have to still test them in the new PTS.

    Well in my opinion...first Minor lifesteal will be provided to every one thanks to blood altar (lifesteal can proc now so it is better than it is now)

    1) templar : ritual OP, more synnergie, Minor sorcery...

    2) warden : really really good budding seeds up, can provide a lot of buff (health/stamina/magicka regen, major ward/resolve, max hp) and really good hot, good synnergie

    3) sorc : now that power surge can provide a crazy heal... I think they will have decent heal AND a crazy uptime on off balance and so on thanks to their shock damage, really usefull for dps buff, unique synnergie

    4) necro : more than decent heal over time, but they are hard to use, good synnergie (boneyard, totem) but again hard to use (totem has to be Used on the tank to proc alkosh, but Minor vulnerability is already proc by blockade so not sure about how usefull this spell is, but, i think the uptime will be lower than with blockade)... Lack of group buff in my opinion...

    5) DK, well dk... Damn strong HOT (like crazy), Nice buff (Minor savagery, 100% uptime on major mending, really good with jorvuld). But, the worst game sustain (as a healer, i dont speak for tank and dd), lack of synnergie compare to others, the heal are very located (unplayable when your mates have to be spread), and the shield are not a heal... I am sorry but 1k8 shield ? Baerk, they have to increase cinder storm radius and give it à synnergie + make shield scale with magicka (maybe put a cap on it or it can overpowered), personnaly i only use obsidian to proc major mending and Minor savagery...
    They could really do something amazing with dk, like a "prevent damage healer"

    6) NB, i never saw one, can provide really Nice buff but they rely on your ult, and to have a Nice uptime on aggresive warhorn (the small major buff, cant remember the name) all tank and healer has to use warhorn so not sure it is benefit to use your ultimate... No synnergy, small aoe hot (refreshing path is very small, known issue), i ask my self, how much uptime can you get with a ultgen potion ? I really cant speak too much about NB, but in my opinion, FOR PVE they are far away from the other, but for pvp i think they are FAR AHEAD....less buff than others

    My post is for pve, i didnt ask the context... Are we speaking about pve or pvp ?
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Now I haven't read everything you wrote, obviously, but you seem to think berzerk, both minor and major, amps healing, it does not. Tell me I am mistaken?
    . This results alone in a net bonus of Minor Berserk (+8% Damage -don't let the name fool you, weapon/spell damage is also healing and it is confirmed to add to the healing of the used resource pool for HoTs and Direct Heals.)

    Like that right there, this statement you make is demonstrably false. Minor berserk is only for damage. It has no impact on actual healing. At all. This makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.

    I have tested it multiple times over the years and on that PTS. It works.
    Use the Minor Berserk Monster Set or Combat Prayer for your tests on PTS and cast a HoT or Heal directly afterwards in the Buffs runtime. It will profit from it.
    An already running HoT or Zone Heal is not affected though, only the ones cast at that specific time when the Buff is up.

    You are wrong. Go test again. i will do it for you-

    heres healing springs-

    34cevpA.jpg

    1759 noncrit before and after minor berserk

    here budding seeds-


    WuBCaQg.jpg

    9870 non crit before and after


    and here is mutagen-

    DdDiosT.jpg

    1233 noncrit before and after.


    i am not going to test more because you are just wrong and your novel is just a waste of everyone's time because you absolutely have no idea what high level healers in this game do.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on August 2, 2019 2:27PM
  • Vindaomeyo
    Had to recreate the Templar as it got purged from the PTS some time ago.
    I checked it with some Chars with Beserk again as I did the PTS check for it on the Templar Healer and took for granted, it would work as I know it on the others as well.
    That was my error, as Ritual of Retribution has a damage part and amps up the heal as well and I just went on with other things.
    I'll correct myself there and check which Skills actually benefit from Berserk. This could take some time though.
    Thanks for taking the time to check again, this is what I came for, challenging of ideas and finding errors in long held beliefs.

    8d6efunn2k9x.png
    v0v19179wwaq.png




  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    4 times stacking Grand Healing in old times meant solid 4.8 k

    How can you get so low healing with 4 stack ? It's 9k+, not 4k..
    Their is a lot of non-sense, situational and wrong number in your post.
    I appreciate your effort, but take care about wrong information.

    Yes, with crit and buff stacking as stated as well in my post, it is higher and in trial gear and so on it is at 9k and higher, but you'd need the average uncritted and plain number version as a starting point for about this.

    Dude, it's non-trial gear and self buff.
    It's way higher full buff. Hell it's not even with major and minor mending.
    Edit : and no need crit to achieve that lol.

    Sorry to ask that but, are you really playing healer ?

    Yes, indeed. Try to follow the thought line here:
    All normal aoe zone heals were normalized to a value around 1.6k heal uncritted with basic gear.
    Stacking Buffs would get ~50% to ~100% per set of that zone. Buffing that heal to 2.4k (50%) or 3.2k (100%). Adding CP and better gear would get the single instance of such heal higher.
    Now stack this heal 4 times and you get to 4.8k uncritted, unbuffed and with noCP. Buffed you get 9.6k (50%) to 12.8k (100%).
    And with Crit Heals and Trial Gear added you go way higher. I am talking 15k upwards here if you do the math. Why 50%? Well it is Minor/Major Mending, Berserk and Sorcery thrown into an average with factors like Healing Taken CPs. It would not win precision awards, but you would gets the picture were the heal numbers would be roughly.

    Damn I got fooled, put that on my English level and take my apologies !
    Edited by Aznarb on August 3, 2019 2:32AM
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • Vindaomeyo
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Vindaomeyo wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    4 times stacking Grand Healing in old times meant solid 4.8 k

    How can you get so low healing with 4 stack ? It's 9k+, not 4k..
    Their is a lot of non-sense, situational and wrong number in your post.
    I appreciate your effort, but take care about wrong information.

    Yes, with crit and buff stacking as stated as well in my post, it is higher and in trial gear and so on it is at 9k and higher, but you'd need the average uncritted and plain number version as a starting point for about this.

    Dude, it's non-trial gear and self buff.
    It's way higher full buff. Hell it's not even with major and minor mending.
    Edit : and no need crit to achieve that lol.

    Sorry to ask that but, are you really playing healer ?

    Yes, indeed. Try to follow the thought line here:
    All normal aoe zone heals were normalized to a value around 1.6k heal uncritted with basic gear.
    Stacking Buffs would get ~50% to ~100% per set of that zone. Buffing that heal to 2.4k (50%) or 3.2k (100%). Adding CP and better gear would get the single instance of such heal higher.
    Now stack this heal 4 times and you get to 4.8k uncritted, unbuffed and with noCP. Buffed you get 9.6k (50%) to 12.8k (100%).
    And with Crit Heals and Trial Gear added you go way higher. I am talking 15k upwards here if you do the math. Why 50%? Well it is Minor/Major Mending, Berserk and Sorcery thrown into an average with factors like Healing Taken CPs. It would not win precision awards, but you would gets the picture were the heal numbers would be roughly.

    Damn I got fooled, put that on my English level and take my apologist !

    Thank you for challenging me, I could have had an error in there. Best to talk about things to clear up misunderstandings and to find errors.
  • EatYourVegetables
    EatYourVegetables
    ✭✭✭
    I like Pelinal's as much as the next person, but when people start talking about it as a workaround for healing-related skill changes, something has gone horribly wrong.
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