[Suggestion] Balancing Cloak/The Invisibility Mechanic

midgetfromtheshire · July 2019

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Elusiin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

LOATHE.

Wtf kind of BS is this?!

What you're describing is LITERALLY JUST THE STEALTH THAT ALREADY EXISTS IN THE GAME. Cloak is not OP, nor is it unbalanced. There are so many counters to cloak that it's laughable that people still cry about it.

Is this a troll post?

exactly
just use the counters already ingame, they do work.
i use them in battle against nightblades and they work.

Yes but that forces you to change your ability bar and/or use your only potion slot just because of a single ability. Which isn't counterplay, it's counterbuilding, again because of a single ability. Just like with reflective scales. Also the current form of invisibility grants anyone the power to reset a fight. In the time it takes to switch to cast or use a potion to counter them, they're healing or have gotten distance.

I haven't played my NB for awhile in pvp, but it seems like you are asking for a change because you don't want to change your own kit to kill one class.

You simply want a one size fits all, similar to the players who called for nerfs to speed and immovables because they couldn't easily zerg down one player who was faster than them and understood game mechanics.

As other's have pointed out, there are many ways to counter cloak.

rfennell_ESO · July 2019

Elusiin wrote: »

Current: Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 3 second.

Proposed: Cloak yourself in shadows granting stealth for 6 seconds.
This ability is now affected by your stealth radius and does not apply a movement speed penalty, but others can detect you if they are close enough to your radius. If you attack, the effect ends early, but if you are attacked the effect remains.

This change would allow NB to still open combat with stealth and, while not guaranteed as it is currently, provide them an opportunity to escape. Counterplay would be to stay close to NB, additionally magelight and stealth detection potions could just boost your range of stealth detection.

Reasoning:

Now that the game is undergoing a major overhaul for sake of balance, I believe the cloak mechanic should be changed to make room for counter play (just like with reflective scales). The problem with the current cloak or invisibility mechanic is that you can go invisible in combat and unless someone has slotted specific spells, all of which offer little to nothing to a build, they cannot detect you (or carry a stealth detection potion that is inferior to most other potions that grant essential benefits like major brutality or sorcery). Much like with reflective scales, it encourages all players to change their setup just to account for a single ability/mechanic. Many new players in PvP lack this knowledge and often are free kills to NB gankers, even experienced players have trouble dealing with invisibility even with detection abilities slotted. From a logical and realistic perspective, if I walk into an invisible person (am standing in the same spot as them), I should be able to detect them. Furthermore, if they're close to me and I'm aware of my surroundings, any breath, or footsteps should give their position away.

Most of the problem with your solution(s) revolve around the fact you don't understand how much of the mechanics actually work.

Like... magelight and stealth detection potions already do boost your range of stealth detection.

Also... shadowy disguise is actually modified stealth with detection ranges reduced to 0. Not "invisibility" and is quite detectable if you use any detection (many people don't and then rage about it)

As for the concept of shadowy disguise just becoming normal stealth... it would only be effective at melee range. Normal stealth detection ranges for khajiit are not much further than shadowy disguise is if they also use a couple stealth detection sets. With 2 stealth reduction sets the khajiit nb has a modified stealth detection range of 4. That's versus 0 and now you gave them double duration of it.

Lastly, a lot of the rage regarding "cloak" is really rage about invisibility effects (from potions). People have this habit of conflating the two and calling all disappearing people cloak spammers. Most stamblades can spam cloak ~3 times and burn out of magicka. Anyone that plays a stealther knows that to really get away guaranteed you use invisibility pots.

Trapasaurus_Rex · July 2019

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Literally any AOE ability takes someone out of invis already, this is just someone who cant deal with NBs.

D0PAMINE · July 2019

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lol no

Lylith · July 2019

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

Elusiin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

LOATHE.

Wtf kind of BS is this?!

What you're describing is LITERALLY JUST THE STEALTH THAT ALREADY EXISTS IN THE GAME. Cloak is not OP, nor is it unbalanced. There are so many counters to cloak that it's laughable that people still cry about it.

Is this a troll post?

exactly
just use the counters already ingame, they do work.
i use them in battle against nightblades and they work.

Yes but that forces you to change your ability bar and/or use your only potion slot just because of a single ability. Which isn't counterplay, it's counterbuilding, again because of a single ability. Just like with reflective scales. Also the current form of invisibility grants anyone the power to reset a fight. In the time it takes to switch to cast or use a potion to counter them, they're healing or have gotten distance.

I haven't played my NB for awhile in pvp, but it seems like you are asking for a change because you don't want to change your own kit to kill one class.

You simply want a one size fits all, similar to the players who called for nerfs to speed and immovables because they couldn't easily zerg down one player who was faster than them and understood game mechanics.

As other's have pointed out, there are many ways to counter cloak.

well, they got their nerf.

immovable is pure ***, now.

meanwhile, cloak will be just fine. what a surprise.

ShadowHvo · July 2019

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Make a potion able to completely prevent an opponent from healing or casting damage shields for 15.7 seconds, and then we'll talk.

Kuramas9tails · July 2019

Dislike

Whenever a NB cloaks, I just say "Okeh" and move on but prepare myself for a gap closer -> Incap so as soon as I hear the gap closer sound, I dodge out of the incap and shield.

Starlight_Knight · July 2019

Other

Dreadful suggestion - Try playing a NB for a bit before taking away what they have,

Drdeath20 · July 2019

Other

Double the cost but double the duration.

Makes it harder to spam thus makes pulling a nightblade out of stealth more rewading. With that being said magblade needs a little pvp love.

The stuff other classes use to try and counter cloak can easily fail bcz nbs have counters to them with teleport.

Drdeath20 · July 2019

Other

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Make a potion able to completely prevent an opponent from healing or casting damage shields for 15.7 seconds, and then we'll talk.

Makes no sense. Cloak reduces all incomming and already applied damage to zero alswell as grant instant invisibilty and gurantee the next hit is a crit and most importantly is only available to 1 class.

With Damage shields and healing your opponent is still taking incomming and previously applied damage and they are available to all.

SpacemanSpiff1 · July 2019

Elusiin wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

LOATHE.

Wtf kind of BS is this?!

What you're describing is LITERALLY JUST THE STEALTH THAT ALREADY EXISTS IN THE GAME. Cloak is not OP, nor is it unbalanced. There are so many counters to cloak that it's laughable that people still cry about it.

Is this a troll post?

I take it you main Nightblade... It's a legitimate post, and my arguments are valid. That is not the same stealth, in this version you keep it if attacked and do not have to crouch. It has counterplay unlike 100% invisibility. No crying here, again just pointing out the lack of balance with the ability. If you have reasons for why my points are not valid, please post and I'll be happy to discuss them and see your perspective.

current cloak has counter-play. you need to get better at the game

ShadowHvo · July 2019

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Drdeath20 wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Make a potion able to completely prevent an opponent from healing or casting damage shields for 15.7 seconds, and then we'll talk.

Makes no sense. Cloak reduces all incomming and already applied damage to zero alswell as grant instant invisibilty and gurantee the next hit is a crit and most importantly is only available to 1 class.

With Damage shields and healing your opponent is still taking incomming and previously applied damage and they are available to all.

Cloak is also easily countered by use of an.....
- Elixirs, either potion or poison that does not require an ability slot.
- AOE Damage Abilities
- Magelight
- Flare

Thats a defensive ability completely nulled should their opponent oppose them intelligently.

There is no other defensive ability in the entire game that is as easy to counter as Cloak currently is. There is not -1- ability, potion, poison or otherwise gameplay choice which can instantly, and as easily nullify other classes defensive abilities such as shields and healing.

The fact that people still complain about cloak is merely a testament to their unwillingness to actively use the available counters that the game offer them upon a silver-platter.