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vMA dual wield nerf is not as bad as was feared. [updated title to clarify discussion.]
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Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IMO, the hurdle is way too low to necessitate and sort of advantage. Chances are if you are smart enough to build a fortune to pay for carriers, you can figure out vMA.
Also - telling me you feel the drop rate is lower doesnt really convince me much. I have gotten more DW daggers than any other maelstrom item.
Just luck of the draw.
you cannot pay to carry for vma unless you allow a carrier access to your account, which is against the TOS.0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yah, I don't get it. VDLC dungeons and Trials you can easily be carried through but VMA is entirely on you, the reward for completing it should surpass any other alternative. Both bow and destro are this way, why not DW.NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx1 -
SaucyMcSauceface✭✭✭✭I will test to see if the lack of a cap on the dots compensates, but the cutting the damage buff in half feels like the nerf hammer has visited. Could they not have gone to 1500 damage if they had to compensate for their stupidly overpowered non class skills?0 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭It was better if they keep Soul Trap untouched. Who cares about that skill?Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭?? It didnt get destroyed, it got put down on level of other special weapons. If that means destroyed it means all atey weaker and need buffs0 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hardly anyone uses vMA daggers for years and now that they can actually become good they decide to nerf them? Wow that is impressive ZOS! It doesn't matter that you already took away the stat bonus from the daggers and that we have to give up an item set and a potential class spammable to fit them into our build but now you actually plan to nerf them? This is actually laughable.5 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's only a nerf if you're good at the game. This falls in line with their vision of making the game more casual friendly. After all, overland PvE is end game content apparently.0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭Question for everyone crying about the nerf: have you tested the changes on the PTS?
I, and several other people, have, in fact, done the parses on the PTS, and have found that while it is a nerf, it's a very small (i.e. less than 1 percent) drop in DPS on the trial dummy. Stamsorcs are still hitting above 90k, stamcros are still breaking 100k+.
Please test the changes or provide mathematical formulations concerning the changes before you make any assumptions on the effect of said changes.9 -
The_Last_Titan✭✭✭Cool man, wheres the link to all this? lets get this posted on the forum or something0
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skinnycheeks✭✭✭✭✭Did some testing on my stam sorc
w/ vma dagger/axe
w/ kra'gh (lokk frontbarred)
Seems fine to me. Looks like another forum overreaction before testing.8 -
The_Last_Titan✭✭✭With the iron atro dummy, monster sets should look slightly under performing because they aren't benefiting from the major force critical damage buff right? I think all other buffs affect them both? I guess it would be quite smallEdited by The_Last_Titan on July 30, 2019 2:02AM0
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WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭I'd also put in effort to try and revert this change but my effort is my absence. And hopefully there is a eso classic in the future. PvE'r ruined and continue to ruin this game. Smh
Guess what PvE'rs this game will never be an Esport and you will never be gauged at being good. The fact that you try so hard to say it's skill based you try to balance it. You balance ZOM's boards pocket books. 😂
Great job you couldn't take this game for what it is could you. Eso did save me a lot of money though I'd give them that.
Goodluck in the future PvP'ers 👍
I'm out drops 🎤2 -
Obir✭✭T3hasiangod wrote: »Question for everyone crying about the nerf: have you tested the changes on the PTS?
I, and several other people, have, in fact, done the parses on the PTS, and have found that while it is a nerf, it's a very small (i.e. less than 1 percent) drop in DPS on the trial dummy. Stamsorcs are still hitting above 90k, stamcros are still breaking 100k+.
Please test the changes or provide mathematical formulations concerning the changes before you make any assumptions on the effect of said changes.
Love your content man, i am a pvp player but watching u anyways like that u r a man of numbers and reason instead drama. Keep up the good work!
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Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Can we go away with these arguments. VMA is snoozefest any average player even reaching reasonable DPS where minmaxing starts to matter can complete easily. They might not be getting flawless but they will have their axe and dagger sooner than perfected lokke dagger or even good old AY dagger.
Again, quite subjective. Not sure why'd you compare specifically to perfected sets while non-perfected are nearly as strong. As for "sooner", then you may have bias of someone who forgot how hard vMA is for players who're only beginning to run it. Precise data is hard to come by, but as of 5/14/17, on xbox platform, 0.23% of players have cleared vMA, and that says nothing about how many of those did enough runs to get dual wield. At the same time, highest challenge people see in nSS is the effort of running from chest to chest.
People that cannot complete VMA arent people in any way or shape affected by what is doing most DPS in endgame.
how about PvP folks?August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber1 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I was thinking the same thing. These things have sat around forever, not getting used and being generally perceived as worthless.
Some über dude puts together some videos of them being BiS now, and they get crushed.
They added 2000 weapon damage to your next skill and they were still crap forever. Like they were intentionally broke or something to keep people grinding out something else.
How do you take 1000 weapon damage off something and just drops %1 effectiveness?!# how does the filthy math explain that?
I probably don’t understand something right about weapon damage.4 -
kaizen914✭✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »I was thinking the same thing. These things have sat around forever, not getting used and being generally perceived as worthless.
Some über dude puts together some videos of them being BiS now, and they get crushed.
They added 2000 weapon damage to your next skill and they were still crap forever. Like they were intentionally broke or something to keep people grinding out something else.
How do you take 1000 weapon damage off something and just drops %1 effectiveness?!# how does the filthy math explain that?
I probably don’t understand something right about weapon damage.
Because the 4 second duration now let's you get near 100% DoT uptime while also fitting an extra cast in your rotation.1 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »I was thinking the same thing. These things have sat around forever, not getting used and being generally perceived as worthless.
Some über dude puts together some videos of them being BiS now, and they get crushed.
They added 2000 weapon damage to your next skill and they were still crap forever. Like they were intentionally broke or something to keep people grinding out something else.
How do you take 1000 weapon damage off something and just drops %1 effectiveness?!# how does the filthy math explain that?
I probably don’t understand something right about weapon damage.
damage gets calculated by taking into account wep-dmg and stam
skilldmg= Skillcoeff * (wepdmg+stam/10.4)
skillcoeff is a skill specific number and doesn't change.
the guy has ~38000 stam and 5.3k wep dmg which results in ~9k combined wep-power
old msa weapons added 2k wep-dmg --> 11k combined power
new MSA-weapons add 1k wep-dmg --> 10k combined power
--> 10% increase in power for ~40%...50% of the damage --> 4%...5% dps increase.
Compare this to Kraghs damage (2.7% in that parse) and 1pc-bonus (~1.5k pen --> theoretical 3% damage --> CP have to be changed to account for increased pen --> value gets dimished...) and you know the difference...as you can see it's more or less non-existent.
edit: i messed some things up in the comparison...but the difference between old/new vma and no/new vma is more or less the same...so i guess you guys get what i wanted to say
Edited by Destruent on July 30, 2019 3:15PMNoobplar4 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, not sure how this is a nerf:
"The bonus Weapon and Spell Damage will now apply to any target-applied Damage over Time effect cast within 4 seconds of the bonus being applied, rather than being consumed on your next target-applied Damage over Time effect. This will result in less total power from the set, while being easier to engage with in a real-time combat with target swapping and movement. "
Sure, it reduces the damage applied, but it now counts for any DOT you cast on the target within 4 seconds. So it buffs multiple skills now instead of 1.
Or is that just written poorly?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also, not sure how this is a nerf:
"The bonus Weapon and Spell Damage will now apply to any target-applied Damage over Time effect cast within 4 seconds of the bonus being applied, rather than being consumed on your next target-applied Damage over Time effect. This will result in less total power from the set, while being easier to engage with in a real-time combat with target swapping and movement. "
Sure, it reduces the damage applied, but it now counts for any DOT you cast on the target within 4 seconds. So it buffs multiple skills now instead of 1.
Or is that just written poorly?
This part reads correctly, yes, and it's a buff. Now, it's not quite 4x buff, you don't have infinite number of dots to empower with it, but it will relax the rotation, and classes that didn't have time in rotation to empower all their dots will now be able to; besides, the new wording now addresses wider range of DoTs, including not just single target, but all 'sticky' ones that result in a negative effect applied to the targets. Again, not all skills are eligible, but ones like Noxious Breath or the new Soul Splitting Trap should be.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »Why didn't they nerf the vMA destro staff??? clearly they are nerfing stam only
Damm, youre right. And the parses of stamina versus magicka clearly proves your point.
Oh, wait...0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »
Yes? All other special weapons greatly underperform on frontbar to even just basic 2 different pieces of monster set. VMA DW overperformed monster set by huge amount. Even after the nerf they are still strongest frontbar special weapon.John_Falstaff wrote: »Can we go away with these arguments. VMA is snoozefest any average player even reaching reasonable DPS where minmaxing starts to matter can complete easily. They might not be getting flawless but they will have their axe and dagger sooner than perfected lokke dagger or even good old AY dagger.
Again, quite subjective. Not sure why'd you compare specifically to perfected sets while non-perfected are nearly as strong. As for "sooner", then you may have bias of someone who forgot how hard vMA is for players who're only beginning to run it. Precise data is hard to come by, but as of 5/14/17, on xbox platform, 0.23% of players have cleared vMA, and that says nothing about how many of those did enough runs to get dual wield. At the same time, highest challenge people see in nSS is the effort of running from chest to chest.
People that cannot complete VMA arent people in any way or shape affected by what is doing most DPS in endgame.
how about PvP folks?
What about them? VMA is even easier for pvp players than pve.3 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »
Yes? All other special weapons greatly underperform on frontbar to even just basic 2 different pieces of monster set. VMA DW overperformed monster set by huge amount. Even after the nerf they are still strongest frontbar special weapon.John_Falstaff wrote: »Can we go away with these arguments. VMA is snoozefest any average player even reaching reasonable DPS where minmaxing starts to matter can complete easily. They might not be getting flawless but they will have their axe and dagger sooner than perfected lokke dagger or even good old AY dagger.
Again, quite subjective. Not sure why'd you compare specifically to perfected sets while non-perfected are nearly as strong. As for "sooner", then you may have bias of someone who forgot how hard vMA is for players who're only beginning to run it. Precise data is hard to come by, but as of 5/14/17, on xbox platform, 0.23% of players have cleared vMA, and that says nothing about how many of those did enough runs to get dual wield. At the same time, highest challenge people see in nSS is the effort of running from chest to chest.
People that cannot complete VMA arent people in any way or shape affected by what is doing most DPS in endgame.
how about PvP folks?
What about them? VMA is even easier for pvp players than pve.
Yes PvE is easier for PvP players ... So getting carried in groups is rewarding good gameplay ?
Some of us completed VMA under 300 cp and ran it 100+ times for the weapons we wanted.
So let me get this straight...
A new player can ask to be carried and do brainless light attacks the entire time gets rewarded bis for pve and pvp and gets it after a day or so of farming.
And a solo new player that learns vma mechanics gets weapons after but isn't rewarded for bis in Pve and PvP.
Should there even be a bis or meta ... clearly the game is designed around it. This game will always be broken thus should be treated that way.
We been here before - does this make a difference.
Absolutely not good luck in eso and where it goes.
Edited by WeylandLabs on July 30, 2019 7:29PM0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭honestly I'm more pissed off at the caltrops nerf.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.1 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭skinnycheeks wrote: »Did some testing on my stam sorc
w/ vma dagger/axe
w/ kra'gh (lokk frontbarred)
Seems fine to me. Looks like another forum overreaction before testing.
SexyJodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
SaucyMcSauceface✭✭✭✭I am glad that it is not as much of a nerf in practice as it could have been. I like the change that means you don’t have to recast flurry in between all dots.
I maintain my point though that maelstrom weapons should outperform other things like monster helms. Maelstrom is definitely not too difficult if you are a decent player, but it is something that that prompts people to become good. That should be rewarded over content through which you can be carried.2
