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RPG or Computer Game

beadabow
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I read about the many changes coming in Change 5.1.2 and am both intrigued and hesitant. I know there are a plethora of threads discussing the details of the upcoming changes, and thus, I want to rekindle a concept to the developers that may have been central at the game’s inception but seems to have been forgotten in the recent core thinking. I am not a programmer, nor am I very versed in computer software design, engineering, or coding-- so I know the root idea might prove too herculean or too game breaking in nature to be practical. I am however a lover of the game and an avid fan of the role-play genre since the late 70’s when D&D was in it’s infancy.

First, I appreciate what has obviously been a lot of hard work, creative thinking and many hours of coding by the Zenimax staff to continuously strive to provide its playing community with fresh content. I feel the emphasis on balanced game play is, however, an error in judgement. Over-balancing the skills and passives between classes minimizes player choices, and thus detracts from the true nature of a “Role-Playing” game. Why role play a thief when you can role play a templar and achieve essentially the same results. To be fair? Is the world of Tamriel a truly fair place? Variety is the spice of life, without variety, everything is rather bland.

I propose that rather than balance each class, the developers should try to focus more on making each class uniquely different from the other classes- and leave balancing to the players to find. So, a night blade isn’t very good at healing? Maybe they should have paid attention in the temples when they were young instead of trying to pilfer from the collection plates. Good thing they know an alchemist. And if that priestess of Mara won’t heal my partner, she is going to be very sorry when the guild hears about it.

I know a large portion of the playing community is not interested in role playing when they play this role-playing game – because it is such an appealing game to the entire gaming community. And I also understand the developers need to run a business and try to generate reliable sources of revenue to keep the company strong. Yet, the game is, at its very heart, a role-playing game. I challenge the developers to keep their goal of balancing game play for all players whilst making playing the game more about role playing and defining each class into its own distinctive choice with real benefits and weaknesses that may or may not be fair, since life in Tamriel isn't fair.
  • BigBragg
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    In the places where balance is important, players typically won't find balance themselves. Individuals and groups will push to find the most effective builds, time and time again. If ZOS has created this overperformance, or underperformanc,e through the development of the game, it is their resposibility to adress that. Just like a Dungeon Masters duty to guide players through a rewarding adventure that they can handle with an appropriate level of challenge.

    I also fail to see how this affects the roleplaying aspect. Classes still have their own animations, sources of power, and flavor. If you think that your Templar would be too sanctimonious to join the Thieves Guild, then don't have them do so. You could just as easily role play that they are servants to all inhabitants, or a Friar Tuck type. That is the other aspect of RP, the choices can be lead by the environment, but are ultimately up to the player to make.
  • Androconium
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    beadabow wrote: »
    I read about the many changes coming in Change 5.1.2 and am both intrigued and hesitant. I know there are a plethora of threads discussing the details of the upcoming changes, and thus, I want to rekindle a concept to the developers that may have been central at the game’s inception but seems to have been forgotten in the recent core thinking. .

    Quite a large amount of vomit ejaculated via my nostrils.
  • beadabow
    beadabow
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    beadabow wrote: »
    I read about the many changes coming in Change 5.1.2 and am both intrigued and hesitant. I know there are a plethora of threads discussing the details of the upcoming changes, and thus, I want to rekindle a concept to the developers that may have been central at the game’s inception but seems to have been forgotten in the recent core thinking. .

    Quite a large amount of vomit ejaculated via my nostrils.

    If you open your mouth, that might help keep that from happening.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    I thought that "role playing" was more about having a real 'character' personality/background/etc, and 'acting' them true to that. Not playing in a clearly defined gameplay "role" (healer, tank, stealth dps, etc).


    i.e, you don't need each class to have a specific gameplay 'role', to have good 'role playing'. (That first feels closer to "roll playing", the old tabletop term for the people who were playing as a strategy game, focused on the numbers & rolling of dice.)


    --
    Of course, there isn't a lot of actual "role playing" in most digital RPGs. Since there's usually very little opportunity to actually do so within the bounds of the choices & opportunities the programmers have provided (i.e, your character is stuck with the dialogue & quest choices that are given to her, she can't necessarily do the thing that fits your desired 'roleplay' of her).
    MMORPGs tend to have even less, since most of them don't even have any narrative choices, the story is linear & set in stone. The only real 'roleplaying' is from the RPer's, doing their improv LARPing in the corner of the tavern. Similarly there's no actual 'roleplaying' in ARPGs like Diablo.

    (i.e, picking a class, gathering equipment, and assigning skillpoints? That's not 'roleplaying'. It's just that games with all those features, and a story, tend to be given the tag RPG in some form. Very little 'roleplaying' in JRPGs, too.)


    ...that said, there's a lot of tabletop RPG groups that don't do a lot of roleplaying, either. Hence, the term 'roll playing'.
    My group of socially-awkward engineers & comp sci majors in undergrad was like that. We loved our charts, numbers, and skill combos. But not a whole lot of character personality & in-character-ness in that group. As opposed to an RPG group made up of writing & drama students.
    Edited by Kiralyn2000 on July 29, 2019 2:37PM
  • KerinKor
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    BigBragg wrote: »
    In the places where balance is important, players typically won't find balance themselves. Individuals and groups will push to find the most effective builds, time and time again. If ZOS has created this overperformance, or underperformanc,e through the development of the game, it is their resposibility to adress that.
    Amazingly, the current most popular MMORPG .. no, it's not WOW .. is run by developers that have never fixated on lolbalance at the cost of everything else, including player fun.

    Sadly, it isn't ESO either.

  • BigBragg
    BigBragg
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    KerinKor wrote: »
    BigBragg wrote: »
    In the places where balance is important, players typically won't find balance themselves. Individuals and groups will push to find the most effective builds, time and time again. If ZOS has created this overperformance, or underperformanc,e through the development of the game, it is their resposibility to adress that.
    Amazingly, the current most popular MMORPG .. no, it's not WOW .. is run by developers that have never fixated on lolbalance at the cost of everything else, including player fun.

    Sadly, it isn't ESO either.

    Most companies don't generally release that type of information, unless they are publicly traded and have to. Without saying what game and what source you get the information from, there really is little weight to what you have said.
  • berzerkdethb14_ESO1
    The only games that can do this are games that don't have pvp (or openly disclaim that pvp will NOT be tuned and is AS IS like Everquest) or completely tune their pvp separately from pve (like FFXIV).


    ESO should have always had the abilities tuned separately. All this homogenization is due in large part because of pvp. Broken, laggy, buggy pvp that other games do far, far better.

    Nobody whines like pvpers do. They don't seem to care in the least bit if rotations are fun or different.

    Case and point: a suggestion was made that we should have more ability skins like wardens do for bears on other classes. A bunch of pvpsters came in and said that it would be confusing in pvp and people wouldn't know the difference between a green glowing skeleton or a green glowing zombie chasing after them. Seriously. This is why we can't have nice things.


    Separate them.
  • BigBragg
    BigBragg
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    The only games that can do this are games that don't have pvp (or openly disclaim that pvp will NOT be tuned and is AS IS like Everquest) or completely tune their pvp separately from pve (like FFXIV).


    ESO should have always had the abilities tuned separately. All this homogenization is due in large part because of pvp. Broken, laggy, buggy pvp that other games do far, far better.

    Nobody whines like pvpers do. They don't seem to care in the least bit if rotations are fun or different.

    Case and point: a suggestion was made that we should have more ability skins like wardens do for bears on other classes. A bunch of pvpsters came in and said that it would be confusing in pvp and people wouldn't know the difference between a green glowing skeleton or a green glowing zombie chasing after them. Seriously. This is why we can't have nice things.


    Separate them.

    Ever read the dev comments on PTS? The changes happen from both PvP and PvE, and are most commonly attributed to overperformance in the PvE trial setting. The thing is, almost nobody will complain about somebody being over powered in PvE even though it is more important to balance there than in PvP. In PvP, players develop new builds to counter what is popular so the meta is constantly shifting.
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