Skill Audit = Homogenization = Boring Fights

Skoomah · July 2019

susmitds · July 2019

Yes

I understand why they are doing it and how it will help bring balance. At the same time, it is also murdering class diversity as a side effect and basically making classes ability skins, which I don't really agree with.

Skoomah · July 2019

Yes

Don’t know about you guys, but I like going up against different classes that have distinct strengths and weaknesses. Being able to deploy different strategy and tactics against different opponents and setups makes for interesting gameplay. It rewards you for understanding the nuances between classes and having a high skill level and experience. It’s going to be boring fighting players that basically operate the same. Instead of encountering 12 classes with their distinct kits, we’ll only have to learn to fight mainly 2-ish generic setups (1 stamina, 1 magicka). I don’t agree with this combat direction.

satanio · July 2019

Yes

Skoomah wrote: »

Skill Audit = Homogenization = Boring Fights

=> once you have the base, you can build different houses on top of it you know? It could very much lead into nice class development.

Skoomah · July 2019

Yes

For example:

Someone makes a bleed build. If you are fighting a tanky DK that is made to sit their and block and disrupt, then the bleed build is effective against that and has a high chance of winning the battle given bleeds ignore armor, countering the strength of block and high armor.

On the other hand, the bleed build goes up against a Templar. Good luck because the Templar can cleanse away your bleeds. So your chances of winning is lower.

So what happens? The bleed build has to make a decision on who to fight and who to not fight. Target selection matters and contributes to the outcome of the fight. Experience and skill level is rewarded.

In the new world, this kind of skill level and knowledge is less important, matters less. Everyone mostly operates and plays the same way.

Skoomah · July 2019

Yes

satanio wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Skill Audit = Homogenization = Boring Fights

=> once you have the base, you can build different houses on top of it you know? It could very much lead into nice class development.

Wait... so they are homogenizing the classes to eventually make them different again? So we have to learn how to play the game over and over again?

Royaji · July 2019

Yes

Welcome to the Era of Wheeler. And we were celebrating when Wrobel left... I mean, I see his point. This "everything adheres to our standards" idea works well for PvP and makes balancing easy. But is it fun? Not for me. I'm not interested in following Wheeler towards the path he is taking with ESO now.

And people who are expecting class rebalancing later will be sorely disappointed. I can already see how every class is turned into Warden/Necro jack of all trades mess with 3 dedicated trees and no uniqueness whatsoever.

satanio · July 2019

Yes

Skoomah wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Skill Audit = Homogenization = Boring Fights

=> once you have the base, you can build different houses on top of it you know? It could very much lead into nice class development.

Wait... so they are homogenizing the classes to eventually make them different again? So we have to learn how to play the game over and over again?

That's the only positive possible outcome I can see. It doesn't have to be that way

time will tell.

Rianai · July 2019

Yes

Homogenisation doesn't only make the game more boring, it also doesn't neccessarily improve balance, because they are just standardising a few numbers without considering additional factors that determine how good or bad a skill is, which results in some bad skills getting nerfed and good skills getting buffed and generally many skills getting changed that didn't need any changes.

Seraphayel · July 2019

Yes

I am fine with them homogenizing skills outside of class skill lines yet I totally dislike that they threw class skills into this process.

Class skills should be special, have unique effects and function different from universal skill. That’s what makes classes interesting.

frostz417 · July 2019

Yes

Skill audit is a load of horse crap.
Classes are still left incomplete with broken or useless ass abilities. Some classes don’t even have a class stun while others have 3.
Same thing for executes. This audit nonsense is a complete joke.

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

No

The skill audit has actually failed miserably to homogenize anything. It's given already strong specs even more tools to be strong, while completely failing to address the shortcomings of weak specs.

iCaliban · July 2019

Yes

ESO will soon have the same problem Destiny 2 had. Unending cries for nerfs led to the game becoming incredibly boring and stale. Everything with a hint of strength or class identity gets nerf cries.

Jagdkommando · July 2019

Yes

The start of all this was after Murkmire...

Seraphayel · July 2019

Yes

If this all is really done to create the groundwork for Spellcrafting being the next big feature it all makes sense in the end and I dig it. If not... well at the moment I try to stay optimistic.

NinchiTV · July 2019

No

Theyre making skills that nobody has used in years relevant, theyre making damage go up, mobility go up, the tank meta is being challenge for once with mag builds now having a magic vigor and medium armor builds will be able to small scale and evade zergs easier. This patch is a god send for small scale/solo players - after years of giving the zerglings everything they want.

eso_lytw8 · July 2019

Yes

With each patch we seem to loose more and more uniqueness between the classes in order to balance PVP. I get it that when all classes have nothing unique left they will be perfectly balanced. Consider this, PVP becomes more balanced each time a class skill is replaced with common skill. You can't complain about a DK or sorc or NB if they have nothing unique. This does not address passives, but that is coming next quarter.Passive differentiation will be gutted soon enough, I hope ZOS can prove me wrong, but the future is becoming more easily predictable with every major set of changes.

Its a sad time for PVE diversity. I do think this is important to creating an enjoyable experience for a lot of us, but I also think there are many of PVE players who could care less. They measure success not on how a class feels, but rather what score it gets on a trial dummy. I think this and the next major update will weed out those that enjoy class feel, diversity and uniqueness. I think we will be gone, but maybe not a large enough group to matter.

I do wonder what the purpose of adding class reps is when the direction is clearly to remove anything unique a class has....if there is nothing to differentiate a class, all classes are the same, then there is no need for someone to advocate for it.

One alternative would be to just disallow class skills and passives in PVP. Now you have instant class balance because you have no classes! The you could leave PVE alone and stop spending time broking the game in an attempt to balance PVP.

Cathexis · July 2019

No

Homogenization is not the source of boring fights.

The horrible tank meta is responsible for boring fights.

Homogenization brings the same degree of skill toolkits to players, so that for example a templar doesn't get "aura of deadly hotdogs" where all players in 10m die immediately to hot dog stink lines, while every other class is denied access to "aura of deadly hotdogs" or its equivalent.

Homogenization is also not the same as collapsing entire play styles and it is hypocritical I think for anyone to complain about homogenization when the same 80% of people probably scream for nerfs to everything they lack the capacity to fight.

Sun7dance · July 2019

Yes

Skill Audit = Homogenization = Boring Fights = only passive skills and some ultis still decisive = bye bye diversity

Drdeath20 · July 2019

No

There is still a ton of differences between the 4 original classes in pvp and boring is a subjective term.

josh.lackey_ESO · July 2019

Yes

The problem with homogenization is that not everyone has access to the same kits. So it might look like you are balancing two similar abilities, but it has a disproportionate impact on certain classes. Some classes need a part of their kit to be stronger (or not as strong) in order to perform.

It's a lot harder to balance kits over individual abilities. But this idea of just running every ability stand-along through some kind of formula where it has a certain budget is just bad. The performance of a class or spec is very much not the sum of its parts.

I think it needs to be all or nothing. Either go ahead and do Spellcrafting so everyone has access to everything and people can make unique builds independent of class (like single-player Elder Scrolls games), or stop trying to balance individual abilities and start balancing kits to have equivalent performance.

Ratzkifal · July 2019

I am hoping that while everything is going bland right now, ZOS isn't planning to keep it that way in the long run. They are "setting the stage" and build from that to reintroduce intersting skills and mechanics after they got a perfect understanding of the game. But I guess that's just wishful thinking and the company has no idea what they are doing....

vesselwiththepestle · July 2019

Doesn't matter, because everything depends on the changes to passives coming with U24.

Anyron · July 2019

Yes

totally yes.. if they want to standartize everything , just remove class skills, class skills should be different, for example templar should have stronger heals than nb or sorc.. that isnt true anymore.. twilight matriarch heal is superior to Bol for long time now for example

TheYKcid · July 2019

Yes

Agreed.

You can't standardise ALL DoTs according to a rigid standard, without accounting for the fact that different DoTs are used within specific contexts by specific builds and class toolkits.

darkblue5 · July 2019

No

I'm sorry but a skill that has class specific graphics and is a DoT is the same as a universal guild skill that is a DoT in the same place. The classes could all use class specific DoTs of different lengths and be homogenized in overal dynamic rotation. Rotational gimmicks (eg Grim Focus) make a class feel different and unique to me.

When generic DoTs and skills replace all class gimmicks (poor stamplars) that's going too far even for me.

Also, all classes being able to do the minimum of a role in end game content isn't terrible. DK=tank, templar=healer, sorc/nb=dps (jk DKs were often better dps) was a lot more homogenized and boring than you remember. Besides dps to a degree always broke that rule given how strong DK dps was at launch.

If we're going to gut diversity for "unique" classes I'd like it to be as so: DKs lose all non-tanking skills and cannot equip healer or DPS weapons, Templars lose all dps skills and cannot equip tank or dps weapons, and nightblades and sorcerers are dps and cannot equip healer or tank weapons. Wardens and Necromancers get exiled for defiling class uniqueness.

Might as well institute soft caps so classes have more identity as hybrids and use all the same class skills and no weapon skills. Then each class will be unique and there will be only 4 builds that make any sense. Only 3 of those builds will ever see play at a time.

MMMMMM unique!!!!

Dark_Lord_Kuro · July 2019

No

Why would 2 skill that do the same thing do differant damage and cost differant i mean more than a few % of differance

Im all for diversity i have 18 character(14 dps, 2 heal and 2 tank) and all of them have differant set/build since i dont want them to be the same
But cost and dammage of similar abilitoes should be similar

Skoomah · July 2019

Yes

NinchiTV wrote: »

Theyre making skills that nobody has used in years relevant, theyre making damage go up, mobility go up, the tank meta is being challenge for once with mag builds now having a magic vigor and medium armor builds will be able to small scale and evade zergs easier. This patch is a god send for small scale/solo players - after years of giving the zerglings everything they want.

There are venues made specifically for solo and small scale (imperial city, battlegrounds, dueling) and large scale (Cyrodiil). If a solo or small group gets stomped in Cyrodiil by a large group that vastly outnumbers them, then they’re just trying to fit a circle in square peg.

In addition, in Cyrodiil, solo and small groups can pick their fights and fight other solo and small groups, and in some cases, slightly outnumbered fights.

It’s not realistic to expect to come out on top against every 1vX.

Marteene · July 2019

Yes

Kinda hoping this is in preparation for something interesting and fresh next patch. The DPS homogenization is feeling a lil parched, need some water pleez

Skoomah · July 2019

Yes

Cathexis wrote: »

Homogenization is not the source of boring fights.

The horrible tank meta is responsible for boring fights.

Homogenization brings the same degree of skill toolkits to players, so that for example a templar doesn't get "aura of deadly hotdogs" where all players in 10m die immediately to hot dog stink lines, while every other class is denied access to "aura of deadly hotdogs" or its equivalent.

Homogenization is also not the same as collapsing entire play styles and it is hypocritical I think for anyone to complain about homogenization when the same 80% of people probably scream for nerfs to everything they lack the capacity to fight.

Fundamentally, the game was designed so that certain classes and builds were just flat out better at certain things. Which encourages people to bring to the fight different setups to the fight. Encouraging people to find friends and cooperate.

Sometimes you need demolition (Nightblade bomb build)

Sometimes you need calvary (DK tank + disruptor)

Sometimes you need a badass medic (Templar)

Does demolition, calvary, medics feel badass heroes anymore? How’s that roleplay going?

Strengths and weaknesses. Strategy and tactics making a difference.

ambitionzcs · July 2019

Yes

So glad I'm getting out of this game... It's a straight waste of time, when they just change everything every few months. Feel bad for the people who have lived their lives on a video game for years and have nothing to show for it. I've played for about 2 months and honestly see no point in playing anymore, I learn and now have to learn all over. Is this something you all enjoy? I'd rather spend time with my family and real friends.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Skill Audit = Homogenization = Boring Fights

Skill Audit = Homogenization = Boring Fights 223 votes