Imagine comparing heals to shields in 2019. Just imagine.

They want to treat shields like burst heals when it comes to cost/size, but they don't benefit from the same things healing benefits from.

1. You cannot critically shield yourself
2. Shielding isn't affected by any %healing or healing CP (yes there is bastion, but CP efficiency severely limits how many points you can put into it)
3. Shielding isn't affected by major/minor mending

None of these things should affect shielding like they do healing, because they behave entirely differently. I'm just frustrated that they lumped them in with burst heals, when they don't gain any of the benefits that classification comes with.

When I ran one shield + rapid regen on PTS for dueling, the rapid regeneration did more to keep me alive than the shield did, and for half the cost. I guess I'll just have to adapt my playstyle if these changes go through, and treat the shield like a burst heal (meh) and only use it below 50% HP i guess.

Giljabrar wrote: »

They want to treat shields like burst heals when it comes to cost/size, but they don't benefit from the same things healing benefits from.

1. You cannot critically shield yourself
2. Shielding isn't affected by any %healing or healing CP (yes there is bastion, but CP efficiency severely limits how many points you can put into it)
3. Shielding isn't affected by major/minor mending

None of these things should affect shielding like they do healing, because they behave entirely differently. I'm just frustrated that they lumped them in with burst heals, when they don't gain any of the benefits that classification comes with.

When I ran one shield + rapid regen on PTS for dueling, the rapid regeneration did more to keep me alive than the shield did, and for half the cost. I guess I'll just have to adapt my playstyle if these changes go through, and treat the shield like a burst heal (meh) and only use it below 50% HP i guess.

It´s more than what they don´t benefit from (which is another discussion imo).

Shields simply aren´t used like burst heals are. Shields are preemptively applied permanently to avoid or reduce taking HP dmg (to compensate for weaker healing).
A burstheal is only used when it is needed. IE: When the player takes so much dmg that their offensive or over time healing is insufficient.
A shield is permanently kept active (and in case of using one shield not stacking them) even refreshed regularly making it even less magica effective.

A magsorc or magblade uses their shield 10x more often than a DK uses their coagulated blood in an even fight.
They do this because they do not have access to the same healing bonuses, offensive and passive healing as a DK has.
Burstheals are expensive - one might realize it creates issues when an ability that is by neccessity of it´s application used more often than a burstheal does come at comparable cost.

This is why the cost of dampen (even on live) is problematic and the new cost of hardened is aswell. They´re held to a standard of burstheals that have fundamentally different combat application and are usually also complemented by other defensive and offensive healing while shields are not (except if you stack multiple - which doesn´t change the way of utilizing them).

Edit: I just wanted to add i 100% agree with the nerf to harness - it was a hardcore carry ability.
I´d also love for zos to reduce shield cost while at the same time tackling shieldstacking which by the cost increase sadly gets promoted instead of discouraged.

Edit2: I can see the point of reducing shield size compared to live if it was deemed to hard to break a player only spamming shields on low HP. I don´t neccessarily agree due to the raised dps on pts (dotmeta) - but it´s a valid concern and the scaling of shields is not the issue on pts.

Derra wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Rapid regen can be block mitigated and crit. All while being protected by shields.

Perhaps that’s their goal.

Just that you can not mitigate dmg on shields with block...

Yep.

Was referring to shields being used to absorb damage while rapid regen was active.

Shields are OPAF, you aren't understanding their use if you think otherwise

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Shields are OPAF, you aren't understanding their use if you think otherwise

You need to L2P if you don't realise that cost/efficiency ratio is very bad.

Aedaryl wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Shields are OPAF, you aren't understanding their use if you think otherwise

You need to L2P if you don't realise that cost/efficiency ratio is very bad.

If they work for me and I'm not struggling aren't you the one who needs to "L2P" ?

frostz417 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Harness 100% deserved the nerf. And yeah, pretty much agree with everything stated above. I'm a magsorc main, and have been since I started for the most part. The basic idea of a shield using mag class is, as you stated, keep your shield up. It's basically more of a preemptive HoT than it is a burst heal. I just hope ZoS does something about his before it hits live.

I've already made a templar for next patch assuming all these changes go through. It was hard to properly test my Magsorc the last time I was on PTS as the barswap 100MS bug thing was still going on (is still going on? idk if that was fixed). Just felt impossible to sustain against the DoT meta in any way. And with the increase of healing, that other classes can just outright use better than magsorc in most situations, I felt pretty useless in most of my fights so far.

Harness was overnerfed Into the trashcan of useless abilities. The least they could’ve done was reduce the mag returned by half. But this is far too much. Now there is literally no reason to run harness magica. You get almost no mag return, the size is stupid small, and dampen is better in every option.

I'll still use harness because some magicka is better than none :^)

Not when the cost is almost 4K and you’re literally getting like 700 mag back at most, which also doesn’t help the fact that your shield size is laughably small now thanks to zos nerfing them, so using them for pure mitigation won’t be ***.

Let me do some math for you now

4131 cost, 9213 shield ( which is buffed btw it was 40% ) , 849 mag return, my recovery is 1150 so I will get half the mag back in two seconds assuming I get hit by 3 spells ( which will most likely happen ) , so I cast a 9k shield which SCALES with resistances, if you can't see how that is powerful, then dude, YOU, need to laugh at yourself.

Id like to add (incase nobody mentioned it) that shields dont bring you out of execute range, you can shield as much as you want, but youre still not healing, executes will melt your shield faster then you can say "ouch", youd have to heal aswell as shield yourself. So why shields are being treated like every other heal/defence in the game...I dont understand or agree with.

Nerf Shields,

Infact change shields to some other defence mechanics.

Shields should not be as efficient as heals if you’re just using them like a burst heal. This is because they provide something that burst heals don’t: the ability to essentially temporarily raise your max health to protect against burst that you’d otherwise die to regardless of healing. The utility is different.

Of course the one exception to the above is Healing Ward, which is essentially designed to work well as a burst heal, and in exchange isn’t as good as an overshield since the base shield value is low. It’s basically a hybrid ability.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Shields are trash on live as well. It's not murkmire anymore. The problem is the potatoes have not realized it yet

Agreed for PVE shields are pretty much a waste of an ability slot in most circumstances given the cost compared to how quickly they melt. In PvP shields are still mostly what they were pre murkmire meaning the biggest issue most have (shield stacking on a sorc) has not been fixed. It would be easy to make anulment and conjured ward in stackable by making them both apply a major shield for example. This way they would just override each other instead of stacking.

Interestingly shields are very much still a powerful choice next patch. If they nerf healing ward (which will probably happen given some of the backlash), then dampen will keep its use as being a pre-emptive defense and a way to use strong HoTs viably (which are plentiful next patch thanks to resto reworks).

However the dot meta is going to be a thing next patch so having enough HoTs ticking while playing offensive is going to matter a lot more and require some build reworking. Thus shields on their own will be less effective than before as a way to stave off burst because the incoming damage overtime is far higher (especially in open world) as your shield chips away from the dots.

Seeing how ZOS pretty much pidgeon-holed magicka into using resto back bar, likely will see a lot more builds using shielding in the upcoming patch in combination with healing from resto staff across the classes. All just to survive the same old incoming direct damage but also the newly introduced dot pressure that will be commonplace next patch.

Shields need a nerf. When you block cancel the animation you can cast 3 different shields and literally tank a zerg in any PvX without running out of magicka on some builds.

I've already pretty much decided to go heavy armor sword and Board on my mag toons next patch...... i guess, welcome to the new tank meta?.

XIIICaesar wrote: »

I think a lot of shield users are missing the point of the shields having a high cost. Its so that you want to continue shield stacking you will need to invest in more regen or max stat to do so. Meaning, you can't spec as much into damage. It's a give & take. You want one thing your gonna lose a little somewhere else. I think thats the intention behind the changes. Its all part of the balance & standardization they're doing right now. The heavy armor meta, stamina users, PvP in general as well as PvE, would get all the changes they have now & they'd forget about the shield stacking meta? Shield stacking meta & magicka glass cannons in PvP are a meta just as powerful as heavy armour stamina PvPers. Balance is both getting adjusted.

Nah, dude. i think we're going into the biggest Heavy armor/tank meta this game has seen. you think people are going to be using light armor with the changes to skele and shields?, you're out of your mind if you think people are going to stick with light.

and frankly it's only ever been sorcs (one single class) that shields have ever really been a major issue on..... this change is just kinda ass backwards, basically destroy's the viability of light armor for every class when sorcs where the only problem..... so, GG.

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Shields are OPAF, you aren't understanding their use if you think otherwise

Since you have it in your sig.

Would you please raise your arguments instead of raising shields are OPAF - adressing the concerns regarding shields i make in my lenghy post #7 in this topic?

The two classes that have to rely on shields as their main defense (outside of healing ward discussion - which i still don´t believe to make it live) are bottom tier for magica specs alongside the classes that don´t get a decent class cc on pts.
That is somewhat telling about how "op" shields are on the pts imo.