vMA Dual Wield - Immediate Nerf

jediodyn_ESO · July 2019

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

St_Anger wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Parses like that - get destroyed in PvP btw.

Hold on sit still while I dps test you. 😂 Yet it's looking to be nerfed becuase of a test dummy.

Awesome job 👍

[removed baiting comment]

Of course a pure damage output setup will be "destroyed" in PvP by a PvP setup... Not everything is about pvp you know? If it was for me they should just delete cyrodiil and battle grounds to improve performance.

[snip]😂 becuase I'm still playing this game. Debating with esport wow/dota/lol failures that transferred to eso thinking there actually good at a game thats not skilled. Thus being socially awkward towards pvp'ers, and using your attention to detail about how to balance a game. ( Take that how you want. )

Thats NEVER going to happen becuase of the servers - engine - performance - charecter models - lore - class - rng and other things that made elder scrolls great in the past. And no this game won't and will never be balanced enough for the players.

You and the other grasshoppers need to calm down. PvP is for the players advanced enough that look at pve as a joke of sit here for (x) seconds don't stand here gameplay mechanics. It's actually quite interesting to see how to get things nerfed by the nerflings. A trend and pattern I can use in the future toward other games when I see it falling apart.

I'm disappointed in this community now it used to be about unique builds. Healthy debates about playstyles vs meta's. But looks like ESO can't live without a meta.
Why ESO will always have a meta and discourage unique builds and diversity in both PvP and Pve.

Goodluck y'all we will see in 5.1.3 were VMA DW is at for PvE and for PvP.

Zos needs to actually make item set balance changes more than once every 4 month.

St_Anger wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

St_Anger wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Parses like that - get destroyed in PvP btw.

Hold on sit still while I dps test you. 😂 Yet it's looking to be nerfed becuase of a test dummy.

Awesome job 👍

[removed baiting comment]

Of course a pure damage output setup will be "destroyed" in PvP by a PvP setup... Not everything is about pvp you know? If it was for me they should just delete cyrodiil and battle grounds to improve performance.

[snip] 😂 becuase I'm still playing this game. Debating with esport wow/dota/lol failures that transferred to eso thinking there actually good at a game thats not skilled. Thus being socially awkward towards pvp'ers, and using your attention to detail about how to balance a game. ( Take that how you want. )

Thats NEVER going to happen becuase of the servers - engine - performance - charecter models - lore - class - rng and other things that made elder scrolls great in the past. And no this game won't and will never be balanced enough for the players.

You and the other grasshoppers need to calm down. PvP is for the players advanced enough that look at pve as a joke of sit here for (x) seconds don't stand here gameplay mechanics. It's actually quite interesting to see how to get things nerfed by the nerflings. A trend and pattern I can use in the future toward other games when I see it falling apart.

I'm disappointed in this community now it used to be about unique builds. Healthy debates about playstyles vs meta's. But looks like ESO can't live without a meta.
Why ESO will always have a meta and discourage unique builds and diversity in both PvP and Pve.

Goodluck y'all we will see in 5.1.3 were VMA DW is at for PvE and for PvP.

That is just the arrogance we are used from from a lot of PvP players. I dont get any kind of fun out of PvP in MMORPGs, but of course they will not delete PvP and I would not push for it to be deleted, because I know a lot of people really have fun in PvP. But what I also observe a lot is that PvP players are often arrogant and insultive and it seems like you are one of them.

The problem is that PvP and PvE are actually two separate games, but some genius at ZoS still hasn’t figured out that they need separate balance and development. Even WoW had this figured out by Burning Crusade.

Evito · July 2019

susmitds wrote: »

vMA DW or maybe Flurry deserves a nerf. I can't specifically decide which one though.

The Flurry 21% buff previous patch has made it stronger than every single class spammable. Also, there is the return of the DoT meta of old days with the new DoTs.

Every single stamina class has now forced to use vMA DW and flurry to hit max numbers. The highest parses in PTS is all from the same setup.

Stamina Sorcs - 108.4k. It is the class benefiting the most from the new meta.
Stamina Necros - 106.8k. Forced to drop class spammable, Venom Skull.
Stamina Dk - 105.9k. Another class benefiting a lot due to two class DoTs.
Stamina NB - 103.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Surprise Attack and Leeching Strikes to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Warden - 102.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Cliff Racer and Sub Assault to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Templar - 97.6k. Forced to drop class spammable, Jabs, in spite of the fact, it does the same thing just for vMA DW.

You know something is wrong, when the strongest DPS class is the one with least the class skills and when classes without class spammables are on top while classes with tons of class skills are forced to drop them.

The classes which are mostly Direct Damage oriented, suffer from this meta, like Stamina NB and Stamina Warden. The funny fact, they went from top two classes two patches ago to bottom two classes, ignoring Stamplar.

Necro is still the meta regardless of the solo parses for as long as the ulti can be chained - which is what also needs to be changed.

Whatever the nerf is it shouldn't kill stamsorc, who has no other option then flurry.

I'll also add that the same scenario is taking place with magicka builds, use all the non-class based dots and 1 or 2 class abilities and off you go.

The classes play fine and all, but every DPS class is in a pathetic state as far as identity goes.

Xogath · July 2019

I don't know who on the development team has the *** for the Assassin archetype (DW/Bow) and DoT play style.. but they should not be in charge of developing anything.

ccfeeling · July 2019

VMA DW OP ? What ? Who currently using it ?

ecru · July 2019

susmitds wrote: »

vMA DW or maybe Flurry deserves a nerf. I can't specifically decide which one though.

The Flurry 21% buff previous patch has made it stronger than every single class spammable. Also, there is the return of the DoT meta of old days with the new DoTs.

Flurry - 959 base damage, base cost is 2700 stam, has a minor heal with one morph, does nothing with the other

Jabs - 1,364 base damage, base cost is 2509 stam, snares, has a proc

Surprise attack - 911 base damage, base cost is 2295, applies a debuff, applies a self buff, increases max health while slotted

Cutting Dive - 944 base damage, 28m range, base cost is 1823 stam, 2% more damage for slotting, up to 12% mag/stam recovery for slotting, heals you after casting, gives you ult every 8 seconds after casting

Venom Skull - 844 base damage, 28m range, base cost is 1823 stam, but does 20% more damage every third attack, with every necro ability counting towards that, increases your critical strike chance against enemies under 25% health by 10%.

i'm probably forgetting a lot of passives.

but yeah sure slot flurry instead of jabs, lol.

flurry basically does nothing and is still a channel subject to 5 crit rolls. it applies no status effects, it has no secondary effect besides a minor heal on one morph. no one used it before because it sucked. if you nerf it again, no one will ever use it again. is vma dw overperforming in pve? sure, but nerfing flurry is a really dumb way to "fix" that problem.

Runefang · July 2019

ccfeeling wrote: »

VMA DW OP ? What ? Who currently using it ?

Everybody parsing on the pts.

MehrunesFlagon · July 2019

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

Thank God they are nerfing that... all classes with same skills and rotation?? Like really?? No Identity at all for your class?? I was about to drop all my staminas for One patch...
Also, not using any monster set at all is killing One of the unique things de have on ESO
Only the crying Babys who cant learn a proper rotation were pleased with that meta!

honestly I think with my necro I'm just going to go with less damage.since I don't want him and every other character playing like a stamplar.

hakan · July 2019

ecru wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

vMA DW or maybe Flurry deserves a nerf. I can't specifically decide which one though.

The Flurry 21% buff previous patch has made it stronger than every single class spammable. Also, there is the return of the DoT meta of old days with the new DoTs.

Flurry - 959 base damage, base cost is 2700 stam, has a minor heal with one morph, does nothing with the other

Jabs - 1,364 base damage, base cost is 2509 stam, snares, has a proc

Surprise attack - 911 base damage, base cost is 2295, applies a debuff, applies a self buff, increases max health while slotted

Cutting Dive - 944 base damage, 28m range, base cost is 1823 stam, 2% more damage for slotting, up to 12% mag/stam recovery for slotting, heals you after casting, gives you ult every 8 seconds after casting

Venom Skull - 844 base damage, 28m range, base cost is 1823 stam, but does 20% more damage every third attack, with every necro ability counting towards that, increases your critical strike chance against enemies under 25% health by 10%.

i'm probably forgetting a lot of passives.

but yeah sure slot flurry instead of jabs, lol.

flurry basically does nothing and is still a channel subject to 5 crit rolls. it applies no status effects, it has no secondary effect besides a minor heal on one morph. no one used it before because it sucked. if you nerf it again, no one will ever use it again. is vma dw overperforming in pve? sure, but nerfing flurry is a really dumb way to "fix" that problem.

Sp you wrote down all the other skills' passives but not dual wield passives?

Flurry gets increased damage with each hit and final being 3x damage plus

- built in execute with low health targets
- extra 15 percent damage agaisnt targets that are silenced, immobilized, disoriented and stunned
- more weap damage to off hand
- dual abilities having 15 percent low cost (every weapon skill line has it)

SaintSubwayy · July 2019

Runefang wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

VMA DW OP ? What ? Who currently using it ?

Everybody parsing on the pts.

Wrong
For Pure ST dmg and Parsing, Masters Bow out Deepeses the Maelstrom Bow by about 2k.

AOE Dmg wise, vMA Bow in combo with Barrage is strongest, and has a nice big Area.

About the adjustments planned for vMA DW...its kinda pathetic that ZOS once again will prob swing the nerfhammer of destruction, and (IMO) make vMA DW useless once again.
This set has already been nerfed compared to trelease strength....instead of further nerfing it, they should bring Magicka DMG sets up to par with stamsets.

Magicka still lacks a reliable source for major Slayer (jeah the yhave Master architect but oinly magplars and magblades can use it efficiently)...so a magicka version of likkestiiz needs to come, as well as a magicka version of relequen...then magicka DPS might become viable again. (in competitive pve)

ThePedge · July 2019

Hardest solo content in the game should reward the best gear.

They have been successful at this, now they're going to nerf them again.

They are happy with Destro/Bow being staple, but DW too? Now that's absurd.

Minyassa · July 2019

So....they ARE going to be useless, after all, and I shouldn't bother to try to get them now? I wish ZOS would make up their frickin' minds.

Girl_Number8 · July 2019

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

"Maelstrom’s Dual Wield set is currently enabling too much damage with the DoT refactor. It will be adjusted to tone down the total Weapon and Spell Damage, but will get some improvements to its usability in a fluid rotation. This change will be in a future PTS patch."

??? These were nerfed years ago to the point no one used them for years. Now people finally getting ready to use again, and immediate nerf impending. What?!?!?

Zos uses dummy parses now, lol. Those that don't have them or can't run vMA will be happy. Those of us that have them, to the point that we have deconstructed a lot of extras, are not very happy about this.

Zos just made older content and weapons that deserve a buff a waste. This game is becoming more of a joke, as it is clear they don't know what they are doing.

It would of made players do more content, not less. vMA weapons should of got a buff, not the garbage treatment they are getting now just like the game's performance.

Girl_Number8 · July 2019

Ramber wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

vMA DW or maybe Flurry deserves a nerf. I can't specifically decide which one though.

The Flurry 21% buff previous patch has made it stronger than every single class spammable. Also, there is the return of the DoT meta of old days with the new DoTs.

Every single stamina class has now forced to use vMA DW and flurry to hit max numbers. The highest parses in PTS is all from the same setup.

Stamina Sorcs - 108.4k. It is the class benefiting the most from the new meta.
Stamina Necros - 106.8k. Forced to drop class spammable, Venom Skull.
Stamina Dk - 105.9k. Another class benefiting a lot due to two class DoTs.
Stamina NB - 103.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Surprise Attack and Leeching Strikes to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Warden - 102.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Cliff Racer and Sub Assault to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Templar - 97.6k. Forced to drop class spammable, Jabs, in spite of the fact, it does the same thing just for vMA DW.

You know something is wrong, when the strongest DPS class is the one with least the class skills and when classes without class spammables are on top while classes with tons of class skills are forced to drop them.

The classes which are mostly Direct Damage oriented, suffer from this meta, like Stamina NB and Stamina Warden. The funny fact, they went from top two classes two patches ago to bottom two classes, ignoring Stamplar.

try NOT parsing on a fully buffed/debuffed trials dummy and get back to us. These dummies made dummies out of a LOT of people.

So true. Not seeing much of any other testing, such as actual content where you're not just standing in one spot.

Zos maybe try to listen to more then a few peoples feedback on the pts. Just a thought.

susmitds · July 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Ramber wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

vMA DW or maybe Flurry deserves a nerf. I can't specifically decide which one though.

The Flurry 21% buff previous patch has made it stronger than every single class spammable. Also, there is the return of the DoT meta of old days with the new DoTs.

Every single stamina class has now forced to use vMA DW and flurry to hit max numbers. The highest parses in PTS is all from the same setup.

Stamina Sorcs - 108.4k. It is the class benefiting the most from the new meta.
Stamina Necros - 106.8k. Forced to drop class spammable, Venom Skull.
Stamina Dk - 105.9k. Another class benefiting a lot due to two class DoTs.
Stamina NB - 103.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Surprise Attack and Leeching Strikes to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Warden - 102.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Cliff Racer and Sub Assault to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Templar - 97.6k. Forced to drop class spammable, Jabs, in spite of the fact, it does the same thing just for vMA DW.

You know something is wrong, when the strongest DPS class is the one with least the class skills and when classes without class spammables are on top while classes with tons of class skills are forced to drop them.

The classes which are mostly Direct Damage oriented, suffer from this meta, like Stamina NB and Stamina Warden. The funny fact, they went from top two classes two patches ago to bottom two classes, ignoring Stamplar.

try NOT parsing on a fully buffed/debuffed trials dummy and get back to us. These dummies made dummies out of a LOT of people.

So true. Not seeing much of any other testing, such as actual content where you're not just standing in one spot.

Zos maybe try to listen to more then a few peoples feedback on the pts. Just a thought.

No one cares about solo DPS. Stack burn raid DPS is what matters. Stamina DPS functions by standing in place in between mechanics. Overall DPS in trials is closely proportional to raid dummy DPS RANKING

Girl_Number8 · July 2019

susmitds wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Ramber wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

vMA DW or maybe Flurry deserves a nerf. I can't specifically decide which one though.

The Flurry 21% buff previous patch has made it stronger than every single class spammable. Also, there is the return of the DoT meta of old days with the new DoTs.

Every single stamina class has now forced to use vMA DW and flurry to hit max numbers. The highest parses in PTS is all from the same setup.

Stamina Sorcs - 108.4k. It is the class benefiting the most from the new meta.
Stamina Necros - 106.8k. Forced to drop class spammable, Venom Skull.
Stamina Dk - 105.9k. Another class benefiting a lot due to two class DoTs.
Stamina NB - 103.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Surprise Attack and Leeching Strikes to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Warden - 102.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Cliff Racer and Sub Assault to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Templar - 97.6k. Forced to drop class spammable, Jabs, in spite of the fact, it does the same thing just for vMA DW.

You know something is wrong, when the strongest DPS class is the one with least the class skills and when classes without class spammables are on top while classes with tons of class skills are forced to drop them.

The classes which are mostly Direct Damage oriented, suffer from this meta, like Stamina NB and Stamina Warden. The funny fact, they went from top two classes two patches ago to bottom two classes, ignoring Stamplar.

try NOT parsing on a fully buffed/debuffed trials dummy and get back to us. These dummies made dummies out of a LOT of people.

So true. Not seeing much of any other testing, such as actual content where you're not just standing in one spot.

Zos maybe try to listen to more then a few peoples feedback on the pts. Just a thought.

No one cares about solo DPS. Stack burn raid DPS is what matters. Stamina DPS functions by standing in place in between mechanics. Overall DPS in trials is closely proportional to raid dummy DPS RANKING

But not to the rest of the game....

Oathunbound · July 2019

I'm kinda wondering how they are going to make it work better in a fluid rotation. If they reduce the buff by about a quarter but change it from using flurry to something like "when you deal direct damage to a single target your next dot gains X wep/spell damage" it may be slightly less damage but let's you use class spamables again and it can proc of LA's as well.

SodanTok · July 2019

Oathunbound wrote: »

I'm kinda wondering how they are going to make it work better in a fluid rotation. If they reduce the buff by about a quarter but change it from using flurry to something like "when you deal direct damage to a single target your next dot gains X wep/spell damage" it may be slightly less damage but let's you use class spamables again and it can proc of LA's as well.

Its vma weapon set. Its never going to not require flurry.

Oathunbound · July 2019

SodanTok wrote: »

Oathunbound wrote: »

I'm kinda wondering how they are going to make it work better in a fluid rotation. If they reduce the buff by about a quarter but change it from using flurry to something like "when you deal direct damage to a single target your next dot gains X wep/spell damage" it may be slightly less damage but let's you use class spamables again and it can proc of LA's as well.

Its vma weapon set. Its never going to not require flurry.

Considering how much they constantly change things it could happen, otherwise the only thing I can think of to reduce clunkyness is for it to grant a buff for x seconds that applys the damage for dots. Still curious as to what they will do, more than likely kill the set but one can hope they get something right for once.

Kingslayer513 · July 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Ramber wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

vMA DW or maybe Flurry deserves a nerf. I can't specifically decide which one though.

The Flurry 21% buff previous patch has made it stronger than every single class spammable. Also, there is the return of the DoT meta of old days with the new DoTs.

Every single stamina class has now forced to use vMA DW and flurry to hit max numbers. The highest parses in PTS is all from the same setup.

Stamina Sorcs - 108.4k. It is the class benefiting the most from the new meta.
Stamina Necros - 106.8k. Forced to drop class spammable, Venom Skull.
Stamina Dk - 105.9k. Another class benefiting a lot due to two class DoTs.
Stamina NB - 103.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Surprise Attack and Leeching Strikes to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Warden - 102.1k. Forced to drop class spammable, Cliff Racer and Sub Assault to make barspace for more DoTs.
Stamina Templar - 97.6k. Forced to drop class spammable, Jabs, in spite of the fact, it does the same thing just for vMA DW.

You know something is wrong, when the strongest DPS class is the one with least the class skills and when classes without class spammables are on top while classes with tons of class skills are forced to drop them.

The classes which are mostly Direct Damage oriented, suffer from this meta, like Stamina NB and Stamina Warden. The funny fact, they went from top two classes two patches ago to bottom two classes, ignoring Stamplar.

try NOT parsing on a fully buffed/debuffed trials dummy and get back to us. These dummies made dummies out of a LOT of people.

So true. Not seeing much of any other testing, such as actual content where you're not just standing in one spot.

Zos maybe try to listen to more then a few peoples feedback on the pts. Just a thought.

No one cares about solo DPS. Stack burn raid DPS is what matters. Stamina DPS functions by standing in place in between mechanics. Overall DPS in trials is closely proportional to raid dummy DPS RANKING

But not to the rest of the game....

DPS barely matters in the rest of the game.

MrWabi · July 2019

these patches have turned this game into a laughing stock.. its sad ZoS has increased dmg on skills then the following patch nerfed them to the ground or touched skills or gear sets that didnt need to be touched instead of actaully working on the real issues the game but worry about balancing PvP while it screws PvE and PvP at the same time.. hmm idea how about jsut make ALL skills do 50% less dmg in PvP from there orginal tool tip dmg on top of the battle spirit passive you get while in Cyrodiil or battle grounds problem solved snowflakes wouldnt worry about being bursted down from players that are actually good at the game. instead you got people coming from Other Games crying how this one performs cause its not like there last game.. so ZoS helps them by making things easier for them..

Stratloc · July 2019

[/quote]

Eso saved me enough money to buy my dream car and do super rad things.
[/quote]
Wow

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2019

vMA dw wasn't the problem. It did 1-2k more damage in single target and was crap in aoe fights. The problem was the overbuff "standardized" single target dots the patch. Those skills like soult trap and degeneration are the problems of this patch. Heck on live the dot passive on a stamcro is not far off of a vma empowered dots sooooooo what about that ZoS?

The_Last_Titan · July 2019

I'm still worried about this. How much would the + damage number need to be to balance it out right now? 1600? 1500? Throwing in "but will get some improvements to its usability in a fluid rotation." adds a complicated intangible that could throw everything out of sync causing it to be overly nerfed or overly powerful, i hope they got have comfy chairs cause there needs to be some combat dummy testing with this.

Prutton · July 2019

Every single patch, stamsorcs complain they have no identity, with almost no class skills, and people say they are ok. Now that all classes are using rotations like stamsorcs, they say that is unacceptable. People are funny.

kaizen914 · July 2019

I would totally go for a 750 or 1k bonus to all single target DoTs for a few seconds as others are suggesting. I would like it to be a competitive but not BiS option.

Cage_Lizardman · July 2019

susmitds wrote: »

The classes which are mostly Direct Damage oriented, suffer from this meta, like Stamina NB and Stamina Warden. The funny fact, they went from top two classes two patches ago to bottom two classes, ignoring Stamplar.

Lol.

So bad we don't even get to have the last spot.

SoLooney · July 2019

Thank gosh. Every class having to use the vma dw woulda been so boring.

Seriously? There is no class identity, they all use the same moves from the non class skill lines

Anyways, fights where you have to block every so often woulda made flurry pointless

ZOS_JesC · July 2019

Greetings, we've removed a handful of comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments civil and constructive when posting. We understand not everyone will always agree, but personal insults and baiting comments are never acceptable. Thank you for your understanding.