Trials use case: Magsorcs only DPS class forced to use healing staff in trials?
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
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Non sorcs who kite meteors are usually healers. Guess what they use?
idk i also kite on magplar and magdkEdited by Sanguinor2 on July 22, 2019 8:28PMPoliteness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »About the OP... i dunno if it could be doable a Sorc with resto staff in PvE. Let me think about it...
Skills you would slot at back bar:
- Healing Ward
- Combat Prayer? i know healers will use but it´s a good AOE heal and berserker...
- Rapid regeneration
- Channeled Acceleration
- (one more buff). Not Surge: you get Major Sorcery off Degeneration and healing off Resto Skills.
Front bar would be something like:
- Elemental Weapon
- Crystal Fragments
- Degeneration
- Soul Trap
- Unstable Wall of Elements
I´m sure it can be optimized alot; still, looks like we´re playing with one bar and miss alot of passive skills. On not damage received rotation, there would be few reasons to go to backbar (hence doing less animation cancel with weapon swap, which is a well known tactic used for increasing DPS).
This is a pretty laughable 'cut your nose off to spite your face' deal. If you run this build the DPS will be garbage and you're barely half a healer. It's just useless. The matriarch damage is nerfed, the heal is the same.
I'll just add this to my earlier statement.
https://i.imgur.com/7F3I73X.png
I made a build to try haunting curse, the experiment ended up being redundant (the idea was to run no pets, but I could barely get 90k without one), but this does prove you can easily pull 90k+ with the matriarch, and it's still the best self heal we have.
90k+ DPS considering stamsorcs deal 108k? That´s close to 20k less DPS.
I can see many Sorcs playing still Matriarch for the heal, but undoubty they will get worse DPS and they already have worse DPS than every stam build so this is a losing war, either a sorc loses most of its survability or loses a fait quantity of DPS. Well, maybe the skill slots is not so important considering we won´t use shields anymore in PvE as they will be expensive as hell and the class already has very strong sustain issues.0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »
90k+ DPS considering stamsorcs deal 108k? That´s close to 20k less DPS.
I can see many Sorcs playing still Matriarch for the heal, but undoubty they will get worse DPS and they already have worse DPS than every stam build so this is a losing war, either a sorc loses most of its survability or loses a fait quantity of DPS. Well, maybe the skill slots is not so important considering we won´t use shields anymore in PvE as they will be expensive as hell and the class already has very strong sustain issues.
Every mag build is hopelessly behind stam, thats not ideal and I dont like it but magsorc really isnt alone in that.
Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭I really hope there comes at least one more PST patch before it goes to Life to revert the Twilight changes or bring some kind of burst heal which helps on the loss of the Matriarch, like an instant Dark Exchange. The DPS gap, lack of sustain and also lack of survability is too much for losing, at least in PvE.0
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Evito✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »About the OP... i dunno if it could be doable a Sorc with resto staff in PvE. Let me think about it...
Skills you would slot at back bar:
- Healing Ward
- Combat Prayer? i know healers will use but it´s a good AOE heal and berserker...
- Rapid regeneration
- Channeled Acceleration
- (one more buff). Not Surge: you get Major Sorcery off Degeneration and healing off Resto Skills.
Front bar would be something like:
- Elemental Weapon
- Crystal Fragments
- Degeneration
- Soul Trap
- Unstable Wall of Elements
I´m sure it can be optimized alot; still, looks like we´re playing with one bar and miss alot of passive skills. On not damage received rotation, there would be few reasons to go to backbar (hence doing less animation cancel with weapon swap, which is a well known tactic used for increasing DPS).
This is a pretty laughable 'cut your nose off to spite your face' deal. If you run this build the DPS will be garbage and you're barely half a healer. It's just useless. The matriarch damage is nerfed, the heal is the same.
I'll just add this to my earlier statement.
https://i.imgur.com/7F3I73X.png
I made a build to try haunting curse, the experiment ended up being redundant (the idea was to run no pets, but I could barely get 90k without one), but this does prove you can easily pull 90k+ with the matriarch, and it's still the best self heal we have.
90k+ DPS considering stamsorcs deal 108k? That´s close to 20k less DPS.
I can see many Sorcs playing still Matriarch for the heal, but undoubty they will get worse DPS and they already have worse DPS than every stam build so this is a losing war, either a sorc loses most of its survability or loses a fait quantity of DPS. Well, maybe the skill slots is not so important considering we won´t use shields anymore in PvE as they will be expensive as hell and the class already has very strong sustain issues.
With 8 slot taken up, there's no room for shields atm unless you go without a pet, then you can get surge/shield, but that's a bigger DPS loss than the matriarch would be. I'm not arguing that the pet is garbage for something taking up 2 ability slots, it certainly is, just saying it's the best option we have for a self heal.
vMA flurry is getting nerfed and so is soul trap, so you can kiss the 108k goodbye, I doubt stamsorc will be hitting 100k next week as ZoS tend to way overblow the nerfs. It'll still be better than mag, that's to be expected, but I'm not sure where the "war" is - if you're talking meta sorc is not, and will not be in that conversation anyway.Edited by Evito on July 22, 2019 10:15PM0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »About the OP... i dunno if it could be doable a Sorc with resto staff in PvE. Let me think about it...
Skills you would slot at back bar:
- Healing Ward
- Combat Prayer? i know healers will use but it´s a good AOE heal and berserker...
- Rapid regeneration
- Channeled Acceleration
- (one more buff). Not Surge: you get Major Sorcery off Degeneration and healing off Resto Skills.
Front bar would be something like:
- Elemental Weapon
- Crystal Fragments
- Degeneration
- Soul Trap
- Unstable Wall of Elements
I´m sure it can be optimized alot; still, looks like we´re playing with one bar and miss alot of passive skills. On not damage received rotation, there would be few reasons to go to backbar (hence doing less animation cancel with weapon swap, which is a well known tactic used for increasing DPS).
This is a pretty laughable 'cut your nose off to spite your face' deal. If you run this build the DPS will be garbage and you're barely half a healer. It's just useless. The matriarch damage is nerfed, the heal is the same.
I'll just add this to my earlier statement.
https://i.imgur.com/7F3I73X.png
I made a build to try haunting curse, the experiment ended up being redundant (the idea was to run no pets, but I could barely get 90k without one), but this does prove you can easily pull 90k+ with the matriarch, and it's still the best self heal we have.
90k+ DPS considering stamsorcs deal 108k? That´s close to 20k less DPS.
I can see many Sorcs playing still Matriarch for the heal, but undoubty they will get worse DPS and they already have worse DPS than every stam build so this is a losing war, either a sorc loses most of its survability or loses a fait quantity of DPS. Well, maybe the skill slots is not so important considering we won´t use shields anymore in PvE as they will be expensive as hell and the class already has very strong sustain issues.
There's no room for shields atm, unless you go without a pet, then you can get surge/shield, but that's a bigger DPS loss than the matriarch would be.
vMA flurry is getting nerfed and so is soul trap, so you can kiss the 108k goodbye, I doubt stamsorc will be hitting 100k next week but we'll see. It'll still be better than mag, that's to be expected, but it's not really a "war" - if you want to play the meta, sorc is not, and will not be in that conversation anyway.
Soul trap isn’t getting nerfed, only the morph that hits 6 targets. The other morph will be used if splitting trap is nerfed too heavily.
Given the buffs to single target damage I doubt we see stamsorc dip under 100k after vMA nerfs.0 -
Evito✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »About the OP... i dunno if it could be doable a Sorc with resto staff in PvE. Let me think about it...
Skills you would slot at back bar:
- Healing Ward
- Combat Prayer? i know healers will use but it´s a good AOE heal and berserker...
- Rapid regeneration
- Channeled Acceleration
- (one more buff). Not Surge: you get Major Sorcery off Degeneration and healing off Resto Skills.
Front bar would be something like:
- Elemental Weapon
- Crystal Fragments
- Degeneration
- Soul Trap
- Unstable Wall of Elements
I´m sure it can be optimized alot; still, looks like we´re playing with one bar and miss alot of passive skills. On not damage received rotation, there would be few reasons to go to backbar (hence doing less animation cancel with weapon swap, which is a well known tactic used for increasing DPS).
This is a pretty laughable 'cut your nose off to spite your face' deal. If you run this build the DPS will be garbage and you're barely half a healer. It's just useless. The matriarch damage is nerfed, the heal is the same.
I'll just add this to my earlier statement.
https://i.imgur.com/7F3I73X.png
I made a build to try haunting curse, the experiment ended up being redundant (the idea was to run no pets, but I could barely get 90k without one), but this does prove you can easily pull 90k+ with the matriarch, and it's still the best self heal we have.
90k+ DPS considering stamsorcs deal 108k? That´s close to 20k less DPS.
I can see many Sorcs playing still Matriarch for the heal, but undoubty they will get worse DPS and they already have worse DPS than every stam build so this is a losing war, either a sorc loses most of its survability or loses a fait quantity of DPS. Well, maybe the skill slots is not so important considering we won´t use shields anymore in PvE as they will be expensive as hell and the class already has very strong sustain issues.
There's no room for shields atm, unless you go without a pet, then you can get surge/shield, but that's a bigger DPS loss than the matriarch would be.
vMA flurry is getting nerfed and so is soul trap, so you can kiss the 108k goodbye, I doubt stamsorc will be hitting 100k next week but we'll see. It'll still be better than mag, that's to be expected, but it's not really a "war" - if you want to play the meta, sorc is not, and will not be in that conversation anyway.
Soul trap isn’t getting nerfed, only the morph that hits 6 targets. The other morph will be used if splitting trap is nerfed too heavily.
Given the buffs to single target damage I doubt we see stamsorc dip under 100k after vMA nerfs.
I'm hoping you're right, but we don't know until we try it.
In any case, stam is 10k or so higher in best case scenarios for all classes anyway (except templar I guess). The highest parses I've seen from mag classes that are not necros (they're at 97k) are in the 92-93k range and they're not running any utility either (in which case sorc is doing 95k) - and if I'm wrong and someone has gone far beyond that I'd love to know about it.Edited by Evito on July 22, 2019 10:30PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We have always had to use builds that suited the needs of the team. What OP is talking about is really no different that doing what is needed.
OP falsely states this is giving up on their playstyle as they chose to do the playstyle the team needed. Everyone who chooses to competitively raid, to clear the more challenging content is choosing to do what is needed.Completely give up on our guild assigned role and our preferred playstyle. Drop matriarch and ... drop Tormentor too. Because it's so low DPS that slotting any other two DPS skills greatly outDPS it anyway. So, from "utility trial member", we become just another, single target and single task NB copy.
The above is a great example of what I am saying. OP is claiming one of their choices it to give on their guild assigned role or prefered playstyle yet what they are realy doing is exactly what their guild/raid team is asking.
Somehow we have been trudging through these trials requireing us to keep ourselves alive since MoL was released in 2016 and we seem to be doing a great job about it. Some more challenging than others but we get it done.
OP truely gets told to do the portals and other mechanics, THAT is the role the guild assigned me.
Yes, and all of us get assigned a role and are expected to use builds that help us achieve the goal we are asked to take on.
When vMoL was released it was common that DPS DKs were asked told to slot chains, even if they were stamina builds. They were tasked with pulling in the adds. That lowered their damage but they did what was needed to help the team reach it's goal.
First of all, Matriarch has not always been meta for pet specs and I can say that easily. Since you are talking about vMoL above, I remember when pet sorcs were BiS and most pet sorc builds I saw in vMoL HM during that first year it was out did not run a second pet to begin with.
I do not know why you go through a list of different sources of damage found in the Rakkhat fight but considering non sorcs seem to manage this fight without access to their own matriarch I do not see your point. Especially since vMoL is significantly easier today than when it was first released due to the huge power creep we continuously experience.
Non sorcs who kite meteors are usually healers. Guess what they use?
Do not be coy if you are trying to say my comments are inaccurate. Note what I said was wrong and get to the point. I leave the game playing to inside the game.1 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »About the OP... i dunno if it could be doable a Sorc with resto staff in PvE. Let me think about it...
Skills you would slot at back bar:
- Healing Ward
- Combat Prayer? i know healers will use but it´s a good AOE heal and berserker...
- Rapid regeneration
- Channeled Acceleration
- (one more buff). Not Surge: you get Major Sorcery off Degeneration and healing off Resto Skills.
Front bar would be something like:
- Elemental Weapon
- Crystal Fragments
- Degeneration
- Soul Trap
- Unstable Wall of Elements
I´m sure it can be optimized alot; still, looks like we´re playing with one bar and miss alot of passive skills. On not damage received rotation, there would be few reasons to go to backbar (hence doing less animation cancel with weapon swap, which is a well known tactic used for increasing DPS).
This is a pretty laughable 'cut your nose off to spite your face' deal. If you run this build the DPS will be garbage and you're barely half a healer. It's just useless. The matriarch damage is nerfed, the heal is the same.
I'll just add this to my earlier statement.
https://i.imgur.com/7F3I73X.png
I made a build to try haunting curse, the experiment ended up being redundant (the idea was to run no pets, but I could barely get 90k without one), but this does prove you can easily pull 90k+ with the matriarch, and it's still the best self heal we have.
90k+ DPS considering stamsorcs deal 108k? That´s close to 20k less DPS.
I can see many Sorcs playing still Matriarch for the heal, but undoubty they will get worse DPS and they already have worse DPS than every stam build so this is a losing war, either a sorc loses most of its survability or loses a fait quantity of DPS. Well, maybe the skill slots is not so important considering we won´t use shields anymore in PvE as they will be expensive as hell and the class already has very strong sustain issues.
With 8 slot taken up, there's no room for shields atm unless you go without a pet, then you can get surge/shield, but that's a bigger DPS loss than the matriarch would be. I'm not arguing that the pet is garbage for something taking up 2 ability slots, it certainly is, just saying it's the best option we have for a self heal.
vMA flurry is getting nerfed and so is soul trap, so you can kiss the 108k goodbye, I doubt stamsorc will be hitting 100k next week as ZoS tend to way overblow the nerfs. It'll still be better than mag, that's to be expected, but I'm not sure where the "war" is - if you're talking meta sorc is not, and will not be in that conversation anyway.
Yup, was considering, it sucks to have 2 slots on survability while stamina DDs just need one, but it´s either Matriarch or surge/shield. Still, with gear not optmized anymore for going max dmg due no need to maximize pets damage anymore.
We will see how the parses end up in Live after patch, i guess they will go back to around 10k more for stamina, as always. The thing is, with Orb change and every stamina having Lokke feed everytime, the Stamina DPS will skyrocket, while having in general better sustain and better survability. Looks like too much.0
