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What are you doing to this game ZoS???

  • Dzadzey
    Dzadzey
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    This nails it better than anything I've seen to date.
    Chadak wrote: »
    "ZOS, What are you doing?"

    Stupid, amateur-hour things.

    What they should be doing is in line with this.

    Particularly this excerpt -

    A. Best Practices

    At the beginning of concept development, the engineer encounters evolving user preferences, imprecise
    specifications of product parameters, varying levels of technology maturity, market and funding uncertainties, and
    perhaps evolving regulatory, political and other hard-to-quantify factors.

    Often called “the fuzzy front end” of product development, this phase is absolutely critical to embarking on a lean engineering undertaking.

    Several key best practices have emerged.

    Perhaps the most important element is to focus on understanding the customer and end user value expectations for the product – its features and attributes, quality, price or cost and availability.

    No amount of efficient lifecycle engineering or engineering process improvement can make up for a poorly conceived product that a customer does not want.

    Difficulties include less-than-fully-defined user value (after all, the product is less than fully defined at the
    beginning of product development) and the importance of multiple stakeholders, particularly when end user and
    acquirer (stakeholder that puts up development money) may be different. The issue of value definition and creation
    in product development was studied by Slack.

    A second important element is to keep the “design space” as open as long as possible before making critical decisions to address uncertainty. Toyota uses a technique called set based design in which the design choices for
    subsystems and components are made from a set of possible choices ranging from a proven design to ones from
    emerging technologies.

    The final choice is delayed as long as possible, even into the detail design stage, in order to
    have the best information available before a final choice is made.



    ***

    ZOS' consistent history for at least the past two years' worth of ESO development demonstrates two things clearly that are in contradiction of these fundamentally summarized best practice design principles, and it is worth noting that these design principles are industry agnostic; they are designed for industry ubiquity in any industry in which a product is designed and/or fabricated, no matter what that product is.

    Firstly, ZOS has shown no meaningful sign of servicing the majority of their customers. The nature of their most consistent changes reflect a pattern of preference for vocal minorities within specific and exclusive subsets of the playerbase, and are never ideal to the most common use cases.

    Secondly, ZOS demonstrates a clear pattern of inadequate planning, including a noteworthy incomprehension of their own fundamental systems.

    This game is a machine, just as certainly as the engine in your car or the device on which you're reading this. They make it systematically obvious that they do not understand the interoperations of their own mechanical systems through egregious and rapid-fire 'throw things at the wall until they stick' method of patching and re-patching of the same things.

    This is not in line with industry standards of tweaking and modifying the mechanics of powers, abilities and classes; fine tuning is not done in double-digit percentage modifications. It's usually not called 'fine tuning' at all when large single integer modifications are being made.

    Between these two points, I see no basis for confusion about how we've arrived at our present circumstance.

    ZOS does not know what they are doing when it comes to the most mechanical of systems inherent to this machine we call a game. They have no singular design goal when it comes to classes or even single powers and abilities, and this is repeatedly demonstrated through their consistency of inconsistency when it comes to the magnitude and nature of their modifications made to them.

    This is not a pattern of behavior that demonstrates confidence or even working knowledge of the mechanics at play.

    This is not a pattern of behavior that indicates any plan or goal inherent to a desired outcome.

    ZOS is winging it, and that is not, has never been and will never be an acceptable engineering practice in any respected or respectable field or industry.

  • mairwen85
    mairwen85
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    Sometimes new bugs fix old bugs accidentally.
  • Salvas_Aren
    Salvas_Aren
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    Sometimes not even the bugs work as intended.

    Like the sneak bug in Cyro. You can't use doors, nodes and other interaction boxes in sneak. Wow.

    Why can I still sneak and open chests in Cyro delves?

    See? Not even the bugs work.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    West1389 wrote: »
    I'm still wondering if all the defenders are employees lol. Antonio prob has like 39 accts to defend the comp. He takes the job really seriously lol.

    Too seriously if you ask me.
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    I agree with pretty much everything, i have already stopped playing almost 2 months ago i think at this point, and i intend to do so for a prolonged period of time, for the second time, first was morro.

    The only thing i do not agree is that cp, is a cool system, but they need to balance around it, they need to create a new mode pve mode that is balanced around increases in cp by patch.

    But they won't do it, just like they will not improve stability, just like they will not separate pvp from pve, right now they are testing the waters to see what they can get away with.

    Also. https://smartbear.com/blog/test-and-monitor/why-johnny-cant-write-multithreaded-programs/
    Edited by JinMori on July 22, 2019 1:59AM
  • Mr_Walker
    Mr_Walker
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    valeriiya wrote: »
    Blinkin8r wrote: »
    What we need: A great fix patch.
    What Zos has specifically said they're not interest in doing: A great fix patch.
    Problems with this game 101

    When did they say that? (I don't doubt you, just want to read it)

    @StabbityDoom it's what @ZOS_RobGarrett said in an interview:

    Slowing Down Content Releases and the Great Fix Patch
    I spoke with Rob about the fast release of updates and if ZOS had considered doing a “Great Fix Patch” for one of their updates. He said it’s a question they get a lot and whilst it’s not off the table they as a company do need to produce for everyone and a majority of the bugs and issues faced are not ones everyone encounters or are drastically halting gameplay, as such they need to continue creating content for people who want new content to play and and don’t play at the higher level to notice if a skill or mechanic works a little wonky.

    Well, Rob, the whole f-ing game's working a bit wonky right now, and given all the zone chats, everyone is noticing.
  • Davor
    Davor
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    Was thinking of coming back and subbing. After reading this and other threads, I guess I will keep waiting.
    Not my quote but I love this saying

    "I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"
  • Pops_ND_Irish
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    Its a great game. You have to decide on your own.
    If you pay attention to these forums, your in trouble.
  • eso_lags
    eso_lags
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    preevious wrote: »
    "you do not bring your game in the direction I personnaly think you should, therefore, you're wrong and you are killing your game"

    ...

    "I dont care about your issue because im not having an issue"

    lets explore something. One issue you cared about and one not so much. From a post you made last year;

    1) THE LAG
    Impact : Huge, it's very annoying for the players
    Difficulty to fix : sometimes, an easy tweak is enough, sometime, all the core of the code is to redo. However, people tend to forget that the cause is oftentimes client-side. Your cpu might be too weak, your connexion might be to weak, you might have a malware (coin miners come to mind).
    Should they fix it? : if they can, and if it's their fault, yes

    2) ITEM DUPLICATION :
    Impact : That one is very nasty. It's a game breaking but that justify a maintenance, even on prime time. If it goes unchecked, it will essentially remove the incentive to play the game for a large chunck of the playerbase. Everyone will get everything freely, get bored, and leave.
    Difficulty to fix : Irrelevant. It HAVE to be fixed ASAP.
    Should they fix it? See above.


    So if its something YOU think is game breaking then it HAS to be fixed ASAP. But for us pvp players who literally cannot play at all with the performance issues that have been happening for YEARS, then its not a big deal. "If they can fix it, and if its their fault". You say the performance is "annoying" vs "game breaking" for the 2nd issue. Well let me tell you, as a pvp player, the lag is game breaking. You even say its "irrelevant" how difficult it is to fix, well thats how I feel about performance. After so many years it should be fixed. We shouldn't have to beg for it.

    Tell me, is it so hard to try to understand people who have been dealing with these bugs and performance issues for years?

    I dont know why so many people are like this. Ill never understand. If its not your issue, or something that impacts how you play, then its not important or not a big deal. Its amazing how many people i find, that make snarky comments like you did, that are clearly so biased to things they care about. But someone elses game breaking issue? Eh, not so much... Personally I have never seen item duplication, but I'd say both issues would be, and are, equally game breaking.

  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    eso_lags wrote: »
    preevious wrote: »
    "you do not bring your game in the direction I personnaly think you should, therefore, you're wrong and you are killing your game"

    ...

    "I dont care about your issue because im not having an issue"

    lets explore something. One issue you cared about and one not so much. From a post you made last year;

    1) THE LAG
    Impact : Huge, it's very annoying for the players
    Difficulty to fix : sometimes, an easy tweak is enough, sometime, all the core of the code is to redo. However, people tend to forget that the cause is oftentimes client-side. Your cpu might be too weak, your connexion might be to weak, you might have a malware (coin miners come to mind).
    Should they fix it? : if they can, and if it's their fault, yes

    2) ITEM DUPLICATION :
    Impact : That one is very nasty. It's a game breaking but that justify a maintenance, even on prime time. If it goes unchecked, it will essentially remove the incentive to play the game for a large chunck of the playerbase. Everyone will get everything freely, get bored, and leave.
    Difficulty to fix : Irrelevant. It HAVE to be fixed ASAP.
    Should they fix it? See above.


    So if its something YOU think is game breaking then it HAS to be fixed ASAP. But for us pvp players who literally cannot play at all with the performance issues that have been happening for YEARS, then its not a big deal. "If they can fix it, and if its their fault". You say the performance is "annoying" vs "game breaking" for the 2nd issue. Well let me tell you, as a pvp player, the lag is game breaking. You even say its "irrelevant" how difficult it is to fix, well thats how I feel about performance. After so many years it should be fixed. We shouldn't have to beg for it.

    Tell me, is it so hard to try to understand people who have been dealing with these bugs and performance issues for years?

    I dont know why so many people are like this. Ill never understand. If its not your issue, or something that impacts how you play, then its not important or not a big deal. Its amazing how many people i find, that make snarky comments like you did, that are clearly so biased to things they care about. But someone elses game breaking issue? Eh, not so much... Personally I have never seen item duplication, but I'd say both issues would be, and are, equally game breaking.

    People that self centered and inconsistent are really annoying.

    If you are one of those people, and you should know if you are, take a good look in the mirror.

    Because many things said in this forum thread are objectively bad, and defending zos doesn't do anything good.

    Anyway, at this point i doubt any good changes will happen.
  • Psiion
    Psiion
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    Greetings,

    Due to the age of this thread and the fact it contains outdated information, we have gone ahead and closed it down. Please feel free to refer to a current, open thread or create a fresh one for discussion on this subject.
    Staff Post
This discussion has been closed.