What's the Point of PTS if Class Reps are the Only Ones that Really Matter?

LickingHistSap · July 2019

Ever since the introduction of class reps, it feels like PTS feedback has been mostly ignored. Why bother with giving us the option to 'test' the new tweaks and mechanics if ultimately our feedback will just be ignored in favor of what benefits the builds Class Reps use? Things like the drastic speed debuffs with Murkmire keep going through despite massive outcry opposing it from those who use the PTS anyway, so what's the point in having it at all?

If these changes go through despite all the pushback against them, frankly I just don't see the point in ZOS pretending to care about what we say on the matter.

Grandma · July 2019

wasn't the class rep program disbanded...?

Deep_01 · July 2019

Do you know for sure that the majority do not favour the changes?

satanio · July 2019

Our feedback is clearly not ignored, look at oblivion set, on week 1 whining because “too op” and in week 2 it had been changed to plain value. Wait for mondays patchnotes, 3rd patch notes of a patch usually address major concerns of the community.

They ignore things that are against their plan, for example I dont see them reverting the healer changes because they want to change the playstyle of the healer.

Sometimes they fix some bugs too. I’ve been witness to shadow fixes of Sentinel of Rkugamz that were based on community suggestions.

Morgul667 · July 2019

ZOS always ignores players feedback but i dont think it has anything to do with the class rep program

LiquidPony · July 2019

It sounds like the sky is falling.

Is the sky falling?

Suddwrath · July 2019

ZOS doesn't always even listen to the class reps. ZOS will often ignore class rep feedback or will make changes that the class reps didn't even suggest.

jcm2606 · July 2019

SaltySudd wrote: »

ZOS doesn't always even listen to the class reps. ZOS will often ignore class rep feedback or will make changes that the class reps didn't even suggest.

Just need to look at how ZOS didn't even run the silence on Incap passed the reps, the reps were just as confused as us.

Masel · July 2019

I'm sorry that we ruined the game for you :'(

No for real, the way ZoS treats player feedback hasn't changed at all since the program started, we are simply another channel of feedback that is supposed to channel the feedback from the playerbase. They still watch the forums they still gather feedback the same way as before.

And no, the program hasn't been disbanded (hence my title here).

ChunkyCat · July 2019

I want to be a forum rep. Someone make that happen.

troomar · July 2019

satanio wrote: »

Our feedback is clearly not ignored, look at oblivion set, on week 1 whining because “too op” and in week 2 it had been changed to plain value. Wait for mondays patchnotes, 3rd patch notes of a patch usually address major concerns of the community.

They ignore things that are against their plan, for example I dont see them reverting the healer changes because they want to change the playstyle of the healer.

Sometimes they fix some bugs too. I’ve been witness to shadow fixes of Sentinel of Rkugamz that were based on community suggestions.

While I believe some changes are based on player's feedback, the problem is that you can't distinguish among these options:

1) The change was planned by ZoS regardless of player's feedback and it just coincidently match the player's feedback
2) The changed was based on player's feedback
3) Class reps sent the feedback regardless of player's feedback and the change was based on this feedback
4) Class reps read the player's feedback and sent it to ZoS, and the change was based on this feedback

So you never know if it was just a coincidence or not

VaranisArano · July 2019

The point of the PTS is to stress test what the Devs have more or less already decided to go Live with.

So before I removed it to free up hard drive space, I used it to:
Test bugs I knew about
Test how to acquire new skill lines, like jewelry crafting and the Psijic Order
Test the drop rate of jewelry nodes, which later got increased.
Test the drop rates from fishing on Artaeum for someone who was curious
Make a fancy house with crown store furniture I would never spend actual crown on
Test new gear combinations so I could decide if it was worth farming

Vahrokh · July 2019

Dude my class official game sub-forum has years and years worth of suggestions and class rep posts.

Not a single one has ever been implemented.

kalunte · July 2019

test the hate-metter and point out few bugs.

pattyLtd · July 2019

I dont think they listen to class reps either, so no worries nothing has changed

ATreeGnome · July 2019

Even before the class rep program, ZoS didn't do a spectacular job of addressing player concerns. The class reps have done a great job of making sure that the most critical of player concerns are at least presented to ZoS. They can't do everything though, least of all make ZoS listen, they most certainly do not deserve ridiculous accusations that they only provide feedback that will only benefit their builds. Using the class reps as scapegoats is disrespectful and makes you look extremely uninformed.

Iskiab · July 2019

Wasn’t it a class rep who put together that tri-faction discord, and then removed all the posts and banned players who disagreed with their agenda so they could present it as a, ‘This is what players want’, to the devs?

It doesn’t get more biased then that.

Masel · July 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Wasn’t it a class rep who put together that tri-faction discord, and then removed all the posts and banned players who disagreed with their agenda so they could present it as a, ‘This is what players want’, to the devs?

It doesn’t get more biased then that.

I suspect there's a slight exaggeration and a little bit of misinformation in this post.

Asys · July 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

It sounds like the sky is falling.

Is the sky falling?

yes it is. now go stock up on whatever you like and never come back here! K thx bye

grannas211 · July 2019

Zos does whatever tf they wanna do. They ignore everything and everyone. What you talking about

Joy_Division · July 2019

LickingHistSap wrote: »

Ever since the introduction of class reps, it feels like PTS feedback has been mostly ignored. Why bother with giving us the option to 'test' the new tweaks and mechanics if ultimately our feedback will just be ignored in favor of what benefits the builds Class Reps use? Things like the drastic speed debuffs with Murkmire keep going through despite massive outcry opposing it from those who use the PTS anyway, so what's the point in having it at all?

If these changes go through despite all the pushback against them, frankly I just don't see the point in ZOS pretending to care about what we say on the matter.

You aren't remembering correctly if you feel ZOS paid any more attention to PTS feedback before the Rep program.

To take your specific example, the class reps also disagreed with the Murkmire speed changes. Yet they went through anyway.

Iskiab · July 2019

Masel wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Wasn’t it a class rep who put together that tri-faction discord, and then removed all the posts and banned players who disagreed with their agenda so they could present it as a, ‘This is what players want’, to the devs?

It doesn’t get more biased then that.

I suspect there's a slight exaggeration and a little bit of misinformation in this post.

Probably, I left the discord a little bit after it started. I don’t think what can be disputed is; the view point of those who created it and moderated it - small scalers, what the goal was of trying to form the discord - present findings to devs for what cyrodiil players want, that no concensus was formed - it represents the views of less then half of players, and that some class reps are good and have contributed a lot - they’re non-paid volunteers and shouldn’t be bashed.

Class reps get bashed a lot and I don’t think that’s fair, but things like Orcs becoming OP, Stamwardens staying really strong, catering to small scalers are all things that get attributed to the reps for better or worse. It definitely makes it appear like things are biased whether that’s fair or not.

JumpmanLane · July 2019

Uninstalled the PTS long ago. No point testing for bugs they don’t fix.

Much of what they’ve decided they’ve already decided and only change due to massive player outcry.

It’s debatable as to whether ZOS even tests their proposed changes. I don’t think anyone at ZOS plays often or well enough to understand the implications of many changes.

Further, I don’t believe anyone at ZOS understands why, much less how, many players even play their game.

Nordic__Knights · July 2019

From all my years of following the patch notes I don't know if it's the reps or just zos but 99.9% of what we say is meaningless to them js

_Ahala_ · July 2019

Imagine thinking zos actually listens to the reps when the reps have been asking for magden buffs since their institution

Ozby · July 2019

I believe the class reps bring all concerns to ZOS, but ZOS will do what they want to do at the end of the day as they do not have to do anything we or the class reps suggest.

Aznarb · July 2019

Giving opinion on forum doesn't mean they'll make the change just for you.
Sorry for you, but you're not the majority, most of ppl love these change, deal with it.

Glory · July 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Wasn’t it a class rep who put together that tri-faction discord, and then removed all the posts and banned players who disagreed with their agenda so they could present it as a, ‘This is what players want’, to the devs?

It doesn’t get more biased then that.

I suspect there's a slight exaggeration and a little bit of misinformation in this post.

Probably, I left the discord a little bit after it started. I don’t think what can be disputed is; the view point of those who created it and moderated it - small scalers, what the goal was of trying to form the discord - present findings to devs for what cyrodiil players want, that no concensus was formed - it represents the views of less then half of players, and that some class reps are good and have contributed a lot - they’re non-paid volunteers and shouldn’t be bashed.

Class reps get bashed a lot and I don’t think that’s fair, but things like Orcs becoming OP, Stamwardens staying really strong, catering to small scalers are all things that get attributed to the reps for better or worse. It definitely makes it appear like things are biased whether that’s fair or not.

Thinking the game is catered to small scalers is such a wild concept to me. Any changes like the movement speed reduction, snare immunity duration reduction, siege buffs, sets that stack with more players (old Desert Rose, etc.), capping wing reflections, etc. etc. etc. show exactly the opposite.

The game has gotten much, much harder over the years for a small scale (PvPer).

mobicera · July 2019

Aznarb wrote: »

Giving opinion on forum doesn't mean they'll make the change just for you.
Sorry for you, but you're not the majority, most of ppl love these change, deal with it.

Umm most love these changes, umm really?
The majority I talk to in game are pissed.
Many are logging in less and less a few haven't logged in since it patch notes released.
Leaders of progression runs are quitting leading or raiding altogether.
No from where I stand it looks as though you and the people who like it are the minority.

Finedaible · July 2019

As far as I've seen, they don't really care about Class Reps' opinions either. The only thing ZoS cares about now is the cash shop (crown store) and what amazing cosmetics they can add to Gamble crates.

Finedaible · July 2019

Oh, and also monetizing skilllines...