can anyone else not stand the Tribunal (and possibly by extension the Dunmer) ?

ArchMikem · July 2019

Most Dunmer lovers enjoy that the Dunmer and Tribunal are crap people. There are people who are forced to be good in their real world society, so when they go into their fictional worlds they can let out all their pent up debauchery and inner evil tendencies. People are quick to turn into monsters when you take away consequences. And then at the end of a day full of fictional enslavement, Racism, and killing sprees you can claim it was all in good fun.

Colecovision · July 2019

IronWooshu wrote: »

In the future the tribunal is killed

Agreed, they've been dead since 2003 on my xbox.

Side note, it's possible to kill vivec using only summoning scrolls, but it's more likely to crash the xbox.

MaxJrFTW · July 2019

Nah, dunmer are by far the most interesting race.

dcam86b14_ESO · July 2019

I dislike the tribunal. Also think the dunmer are idiots for just following them. It always makes me laugh knowing they die eventually after ESO

morrowjen · July 2019

ArchMikem wrote: »

Most Dunmer lovers enjoy that the Dunmer and Tribunal are crap people. There are people who are forced to be good in their real world society, so when they go into their fictional worlds they can let out all their pent up debauchery and inner evil tendencies. People are quick to turn into monsters when you take away consequences. And then at the end of a day full of fictional enslavement, Racism, and killing sprees you can claim it was all in good fun.

I hope you're joking.

TelvanniWizard · July 2019

morrowjen wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Most Dunmer lovers enjoy that the Dunmer and Tribunal are crap people. There are people who are forced to be good in their real world society, so when they go into their fictional worlds they can let out all their pent up debauchery and inner evil tendencies. People are quick to turn into monsters when you take away consequences. And then at the end of a day full of fictional enslavement, Racism, and killing sprees you can claim it was all in good fun.

I hope you're joking.

Beware, I'm evil!

kamimark · July 2019

But look what they did with it. Almalexia's organized the most chaotic, unorderly people of Tamriel, who naturally backstab and trick each other at all times, and got them sorta working together. Vivec's birthed and stopped a giant rock from hitting his city. Sil has made Clockwork City. And they've all given me a bunch of skill points and loot.

What was Dagoth gonna do? Maybe blow up Red Mountain and kill everyone.

Varana · July 2019

The story about the Tribunal betraying Nerevar is only one version of the events, though.
The other version is that Dagoth betrayed Nerevar first, by drawing power from the Heart of Lorkhan and turning himself into a god.

And the good thing about TES is that we don't know which version is true.

And even if we believe Dagoth's version, we may feel some sympathy towards him for being betrayed, back when it happened. What I cannot understand is being on his side even in TES3, when all he does is destroying and corrupting land, people, and minds. Whatever he was earlier, he is the bad guy at that point, and should be stopped. Even if you hate the Tribunal.

That said, I see little reason to believe him.

karthrag_inak · July 2019

Racist slaver scum. Could care less what they do to each other, but yeah.

TheShadowScout · July 2019

ArchMikem wrote: »

Most Dunmer lovers enjoy that the Dunmer and Tribunal are crap people. There are people who are forced to be good in their real world society, so when they go into their fictional worlds they can let out all their pent up debauchery and inner evil tendencies. People are quick to turn into monsters when you take away consequences. And then at the end of a day full of fictional enslavement, Racism, and killing sprees you can claim it was all in good fun.

...and then there are the ones who like to play a good soul in a not so good society - see "Drizzt Do'urden" novels! And find that sort of thing way more interesting then the other "not so good" societies - and all of them have their unpleasent sides in ESO lore, be it bosmer cannibalism, breton intrigue, nord drunkeness, orsimer brutality, altmer racism, etc. Some just hide it better, whiczh begs the question as to who is worse, the one who comitts bad deeds in plain sight, or the one who pretends to be good but comitts them all the same in the shadows?

The thing is, the ones who like to play Telvanni scu... slavers "in good fun" are probably in the minority here. Because most who want a little bit of catharsis for their darker impulses get that in the dark brotherhood regardless of race anyhow... (and boy do I wish TG and DB had given us two diverging questline options - one for characters of questionable morals, and one for goody-two-greaves...)

But, the very idea of "dark elves" kinda comes with a general "unseelie" baggage, tho the elder scrolls took that in a completely new direction with teir "tribunal" lore! And the epic game storyline about their self-destruction in TES-III:Morrowind. And the lkore of what happens after, "Red Year" and such. Deeds have consequences, huh?

jainiadral · July 2019

As someone who will probably never get through Morrowind ever, so far I'm not all that impressed with the Tribunal. Or the dark elves in general. Vvardenfell was close to my least favorite zone in the game, and I'm not really looking forward to questing there again with another toon. The only saving grace were the Ashlanders, and a few individuals who amused me or broke my heart.

Almalexia is egotistical but still leans on you for help. She's there to claim the Vestige's service and loyalty but only gives you a shiny trinket in return.

Vivec's a little better. And he definitely has the whole Shiva/Vishnu aesthetic going on. He's at least reasonably civil to you, and almost kind at times. Still, he's helpless without the Vestige and has his moments of pure ego that don't seem to be backed up by much. Not a big fan, but I'd sure love a cool not-Funco Pop statue of him to join my other Hindu and Buddhist statues around the house

Sotha Sil's my favorite. I actually enjoyed interacting with him in Clockwork City and Summerset. He may be detached, but he's also the most genuine of the three. And he's the only one who calls the Vestige "friend," despite supposedly giving up parts of his earthy reality to machinery.

Aigym_Hlervu · July 2019

Varana wrote: »

Whatever he was earlier, he is the bad guy at that point, and should be stopped. Even if you hate the Tribunal.

That is the exact thing I wonder no one in Tamriel really understands. False gods, true gods, bad ALMSIVI, good ALMSIVI - who cares? They must stay powerful whatever means necessary in order to stop the Sharmat. To stay a key link in the chain to defeat him.

Ok, let's see what happens without the Tribunal: Nerevar strikes down Dagoth Ur (he stated it twice himself along the Temple doctrine without saying even a word to accuse the Tribunes), Dagoth Ur survives, the Tribunal is loyal to the oath and does nothing. Nerevar dies, the Tribunal dies, the Chimer do not become the Dunmer, Azura has no reason to prophesy the return of her Champion. But then Dagoth Ur returns and begins to perform his global plan he tells us before his fall. He builds the unstoppable Akulakhan powered by the supreme power source on Nirn, spreads blight, turns everyone into monsters and destroys everything on his way. There's no weapon to slay him, nobody to get to him close enough to stop him because no one has a certain plan to defeat him, there's no one to know where to find the Tools of Kagrenac, how to use them correctly, no one left to build the Ghostfence, no Nerevarine Cult, no Nerevarine. Dagoth Ur marches through Morrowind and invades the rest of the lands just like Tiber Septim with only some differences - he uses blight, ash vampires, hordes of monsters and the machine of an unstoppable conquest. Then he starts a deathmatch with Mehrunes Dagon, entire Oblivion, Alduin, another Akaviri invasion - whatever. Whoever wins - all the people of Tamriel loose. I don't think this is a world a mer or a man wishes to find himself in. Whatever the Tribunal does or abstains from doing Dagoth Ur still becomes the monster we all know whatever views on the events of the Battle of Red Mountain we might espouse. He was the first (or at least not the last) to use the power of the Heart (with or without the Tools - no matter) irrespectively of the Tribunes, a turning point that atones every sin the Tribunal does before we finally slay the Sharmat down. So I think the Tamrielics have at least to thank the Dunmer people for fighting off the Dwemer (we all remember what Azura said about their Numidium project and we all remember what they did to the Falmeri) and to thank the Tribunes for Morrowind has never invaded and conquered any neighboring lands, to thank them for their sacrifice for they are the real Saviors of Nirn. But what we see they all go on worshipping those Eight Apostasies while hating the Dunmeri. Ungrateful n'wahs.. Victory to the Three.

Jayman1000 · July 2019

I like the armor the ordinators wear.

Jayman1000 · July 2019

Wing wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR-K2rUP86M

relevant

That's quite good, reminds me a lot of the amazing Jauffre Jam.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · July 2019

I've always thought of the Tribunal (and, by extension, the Dunmer) as people who were backed into a corner so much they had no other option than to become what they are. Think of victims that become victimizers.

The Chimer/Dunmer have been on the receiving end of Daedric meddling from Day One. From the beginning where Boethiah started whispering in Veloth's ears until the culmination of Azura's prophecy, one Daedric Prince or another has always been treating them as playthings to be manipulated and discarded when they're no longer of use.

Add in the fact that they've always been outnumbered by other nations that wanted them dead (Nedes, Dwemer, etc.) and I can understand why the Tribunal would seriously consider the prospect of godhood. The gods that DO exist are either absent and unable to help (the Aedra), or they're malevolent to the core (the Daedra).

I think the Tribunal's attitude was, "The gods suck. So we'll become the gods our people DESERVE".

max_only · July 2019

Wing wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR-K2rUP86M

relevant

Carpenter Brut?

LittlePinkDot · July 2019

Wing wrote: »

*Disclaimer*
-I think its cool that shady stuff happens and not everyone is perfect or good, makes it more believable or interesting.
-TES lore is from in universe perspective and thus subject to conflicting reports or versions, dragon breaks don't help either.
*/Disclaimer*

I feel bad for Dagoth

yup, that's right, the villian of morrowind.

was the best friend of Lord Nerevar, head of a great house, fought with him at the battle of red mountain, and was entrusted to keep the tools and the heart safe from use.

but then three false gods walts up, kill Lord Nerevar, kill Lord Dagoth, take the tools and the heart, use them to become "gods" and wipe out and disperse his house into the others.

he does not *really die* goes crazy, does eventually get revenge on the tribunal, before the reincarnation of his best friend kills his now crazy self.

tribunal get what's coming to them, every lie incurs a debt to the truth.

posted before almalexia finds me

man I hate the tribunal /ashlanders did nothing wrong.

Lorkan is the original liar. None of the evil would've happened in the first place if he didnt trick the aedra into entrapping themselves by creating Nirn. The heart of Lorkan was already a representation of the original blasphemy.
Mortals are the prisoners.

Wing · July 2019

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

*Disclaimer*
-I think its cool that shady stuff happens and not everyone is perfect or good, makes it more believable or interesting.
-TES lore is from in universe perspective and thus subject to conflicting reports or versions, dragon breaks don't help either.
*/Disclaimer*

I feel bad for Dagoth

yup, that's right, the villian of morrowind.

was the best friend of Lord Nerevar, head of a great house, fought with him at the battle of red mountain, and was entrusted to keep the tools and the heart safe from use.

but then three false gods walts up, kill Lord Nerevar, kill Lord Dagoth, take the tools and the heart, use them to become "gods" and wipe out and disperse his house into the others.

he does not *really die* goes crazy, does eventually get revenge on the tribunal, before the reincarnation of his best friend kills his now crazy self.

tribunal get what's coming to them, every lie incurs a debt to the truth.

posted before almalexia finds me

man I hate the tribunal /ashlanders did nothing wrong.

Lorkan is the original liar. None of the evil would've happened in the first place if he didnt trick the aedra into entrapping themselves by creating Nirn. The heart of Lorkan was already a representation of the original blasphemy.
Mortals are the prisoners.

I CALL BS!

the Magna Ge proved that anyone that didn't want to sacrifice their power to create nirn had the ability to essentially bail (magnus and many did) and as we see from the daedra it was possible to opt out altogether.

just because some Magna Ge got hyper sensitive after the fact and killed Lorkan does not mean he "tricked" them.

praise the Aedra for being kind enough to sacrifice the majority of their power to create nirn.

(PS I do love the ashlanders though.)

Waffennacht · July 2019

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

*Disclaimer*
-I think its cool that shady stuff happens and not everyone is perfect or good, makes it more believable or interesting.
-TES lore is from in universe perspective and thus subject to conflicting reports or versions, dragon breaks don't help either.
*/Disclaimer*

I feel bad for Dagoth

yup, that's right, the villian of morrowind.

was the best friend of Lord Nerevar, head of a great house, fought with him at the battle of red mountain, and was entrusted to keep the tools and the heart safe from use.

but then three false gods walts up, kill Lord Nerevar, kill Lord Dagoth, take the tools and the heart, use them to become "gods" and wipe out and disperse his house into the others.

he does not *really die* goes crazy, does eventually get revenge on the tribunal, before the reincarnation of his best friend kills his now crazy self.

tribunal get what's coming to them, every lie incurs a debt to the truth.

posted before almalexia finds me

man I hate the tribunal /ashlanders did nothing wrong.

Lorkan is the original liar. None of the evil would've happened in the first place if he didnt trick the aedra into entrapping themselves by creating Nirn. The heart of Lorkan was already a representation of the original blasphemy.
Mortals are the prisoners.

They are able to achieve CHIM and become greater than anything else. They are far from trapped; they just forgot the gift they were given.

Wing · July 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

They are able to achieve CHIM and become greater than anything else. They are far from trapped; they just forgot the gift they were given.

/mic drop

*I actually think the whole god head thing is dumb, but if you remove that Kirkbride nonsense and just take CHIM at the face value of "understanding of the whole" im okay with it*

I don't get why the altmer just mass seppuku at this point, if they hate nirn and existence so much, feels like they just exist to screw with the races of men at this point.

hakan · July 2019

Best lore, interesting lands and both talented in magic and blades.

What is not to love here?

LittlePinkDot · July 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

*Disclaimer*
-I think its cool that shady stuff happens and not everyone is perfect or good, makes it more believable or interesting.
-TES lore is from in universe perspective and thus subject to conflicting reports or versions, dragon breaks don't help either.
*/Disclaimer*

I feel bad for Dagoth

yup, that's right, the villian of morrowind.

was the best friend of Lord Nerevar, head of a great house, fought with him at the battle of red mountain, and was entrusted to keep the tools and the heart safe from use.

but then three false gods walts up, kill Lord Nerevar, kill Lord Dagoth, take the tools and the heart, use them to become "gods" and wipe out and disperse his house into the others.

he does not *really die* goes crazy, does eventually get revenge on the tribunal, before the reincarnation of his best friend kills his now crazy self.

tribunal get what's coming to them, every lie incurs a debt to the truth.

posted before almalexia finds me

man I hate the tribunal /ashlanders did nothing wrong.

Lorkan is the original liar. None of the evil would've happened in the first place if he didnt trick the aedra into entrapping themselves by creating Nirn. The heart of Lorkan was already a representation of the original blasphemy.
Mortals are the prisoners.

They are able to achieve CHIM and become greater than anything else. They are far from trapped; they just forgot the gift they were given.

And what are the odds of any mortal achieving CHIM before they die?
Thats like saying we should play the lottery everyday because you just might win.

Lets say CHIM is like winning 500 million.
Immortality before Lorkan's lies is like winning 300 million.

And if being ordinary mortal is like having a low paying job forever... I would just take the immortality for 300 million and not bother with the chance of a chance of a chance lottery odds of CHIMs 500 million wild goose chase.