can anyone else not stand the Tribunal (and possibly by extension the Dunmer) ?

Wing

*Disclaimer*
-I think its cool that shady stuff happens and not everyone is perfect or good, makes it more believable or interesting.
-TES lore is from in universe perspective and thus subject to conflicting reports or versions, dragon breaks don't help either.
*/Disclaimer*

I feel bad for Dagoth

yup, that's right, the villian of morrowind.

was the best friend of Lord Nerevar, head of a great house, fought with him at the battle of red mountain, and was entrusted to keep the tools and the heart safe from use.

but then three false gods walts up, kill Lord Nerevar, kill Lord Dagoth, take the tools and the heart, use them to become "gods" and wipe out and disperse his house into the others.

he does not *really die* goes crazy, does eventually get revenge on the tribunal, before the reincarnation of his best friend kills his now crazy self.

tribunal get what's coming to them, every lie incurs a debt to the truth.



posted before almalexia finds me


man I hate the tribunal /ashlanders did nothing wrong.

Korah_Eaglecry

Dagoth betrayed Nerevars trust by using the Tools after Nerevar had ordered him to guard them while he and the Tribunal discussed what they should do with the Tools and the Heart. The tragedy of Nerevar is that he was betrayed by everyone he had ever trusted and respected. From King Dumac the king of the Dwemer to Almalexia, his love. He was the only one to stand against the blasphemy of using the Tools and Heart.

Grandma

found the argonian.


sorry, I have nothing to add to this discussion, it just popped into my head when i saw the title. cheers!

Gatviper

It stroke me when I was playing TES: Morrowind many years back, how those Dunmer "gods" are actually more villains and hypocrits than anything else. Still don't like them up to this day, now in ESO.
Dunmer are kinda cool though. Especially the females, dark maybe, but gorgeous looking.

VaranisArano

My Nerevarine wound up at the point of completely not trusting the Tribunal, but also thinking that what Dagoth Ur wanted for Morrowind was evil. So she destroyed the tools, Dagoth Ur, and the Tribunal.

I mean, Dagoth Ur might have his reasons, but he's still brainwashing people with cursed statues, sucking people's brains out to turn them into ash zombies, infecting people with the "divine" corprus which turns them into self-cannibalizing diseased monsters who's only solace is some magical music, and wants the Nerevarine to help him kick all the outlanders out of Morrowind.

Yeah, my Nerevarine wasnt down for becoming the villain's right hand woman.

AcadianPaladin

By the time she finished the Morrowind dlc, my Bosmer had to strongly fight the temptation to dislike all Dunmer.

Same happened with Summerset and the Altmer.

By contrast, completing Murkmire made her affection for Argonians grow.

MojaveHeld

Honestly, I think that's how we're supposed to feel. Making the noble elves be inherently some of the scummiest races on Nirn was intentional, to contrast this idea of "inherent nobility and worth" with the darker side of humanity, and to make the point that they are sometimes found in the same individual. There's a reason that the most likeable type of elves in the games are a bunch of short cannibals.

MartiniDaniels

They are all bad, or to put it more correctly, selfish - everyone in Tamriel with some power, acts exclusively in his own interests. I always liked it, very immersive. There are good persons in power, but they usually demonstrate this goodness when they or their kingdom is in bad shape.
Basically, the only good person is protagonist, but ofc good only within his/her own point of view.

LuxLunae

Thanks for the spoilers everyone.. i never played morrowind back when it came out...I was hoping todd howard would finally make a new engine and crank out all morrowind, oblivion and skyrim in a 120 one pack... before TES 6 drops....


since that is not happening...spoil more please..can't stand those graphics...

IronWooshu

In the future the tribunal is killed

bluebird

Yep, they're pretty bad. Almalexia is probably the worst because she buys into her own lies. Sotha Sil has some self-awareness at least. And Vivec and his lore are just a drunk fratboy's wet dream so no comment of substance there.

That said, we could speculate whether the Dunmer are actually better off with a Tribunal (that share power and more or less keep each other in check, with the potential to perhaps even destroy each other *cough cough wink wink*) than they would have been as Chimer united under one leader and firmly subject to the Daedra.

Also, whether you love them or hate them, I think we can all agree that Dunmer get plenty of over-exposure in ESO. They had two-and-a-half base game zones, then an entire Chapter, and a whole story DLC. Where's the Imperial content? Oblivion fans deserve some pandering too, come on, ZOS! 2020 year of the Empire, Colovian Estates Chapter, make it happen!

max_only

I’ve been saying..... No remorse when it comes to Dunmer, they all deserve what’s coming to them.

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Honestly, I think that's how we're supposed to feel. Making the noble elves be inherently some of the scummiest races on Nirn was intentional, to contrast this idea of "inherent nobility and worth" with the darker side of humanity, and to make the point that they are sometimes found in the same individual. There's a reason that the most likeable type of elves in the games are a bunch of short cannibals.

I agree, “our betters” are most times “the worst”.

Not to derail:

Drown your moral quandary in A1 sauce my friend! Earthlings have been practicing ritual cannibalism since the beginning (some still do) and we can’t judge them by our modern standards let Bosmer be Bosmer! Also, being that they are short cannibals makes me feel like they are analogous to Earth’s “untouched tribes” aka Pygmy and the rest of Nirn are like religious missionaries trying to teach them to wear more clothes, encourage deforestation, bringing diseases and destructive philosophies (like greed, anti conservation, extreme individualism). They have an ancient wisdom in a hunting culture that is incompatible with modernization (there’s a whole field of study about tribal peoples encountering modernity and the struggles they face with health and culture decay)

When people bring up the Bosmer in the E.P. storyline I just think of those poor individuals as having strayed from the path of their people and their evil acts come from being influenced by colonizers and imperialists who planted greed in their hearts.

VaranisArano

LuxLunae wrote: »

Thanks for the spoilers everyone.. i never played morrowind back when it came out...I was hoping todd howard would finally make a new engine and crank out all morrowind, oblivion and skyrim in a 120 one pack... before TES 6 drops....


since that is not happening...spoil more please..can't stand those graphics...

Spoilers?

Spoilers!

When we meet the Tribunal in ESO, they are happily at the height of being worshipped as the true gods of the Dunmer, and they think their ancient foe Dagoth Ur is dead. We see hints of their issues in Sotha Sil's ending dialogue in CWC or with Vivec subtly asking Llevule Andrano's ancestor about whether or not his enemy is Dagoth Ur.

By TES 3, Dagoth Ur turns the tables on them by capturing the tools of Kagrenac that they were using to siphon their power from the heart of Lorkhan. This all comes to light as Azura's champion, the Nerevarine, discovers that the Tribunal falsely obtained their power that they used to supplant worship of the Three Good Daedra. The Nerevarine follows Azura's prophecy to unite Vvardenfell against Dagoth Ur who wants to use the new Numidium to conquer Tamriel and make himself a god, destroys the heart, and has the option to kill Vivec. In the Tribunal DLC, the Nerevarine discovers that Almalexia has gone mad from the desire to keep her divine powers and has murdered Sotha Sil. Almalexia tries to frame the Nerevarine for Sotha Sil's mirder so she can be the hero and the Nerevarine kills her.


TES Legends reveals that

Sotha Sil saw it all coming and made a clockwork Heart of Lorkhan. Its up to the player what happens to that and the Clockwork City.

If you can stand Oblivion, the fan-made Morroblivion isnt half bad If graphics are you main problem. I tried playing vanilla Morrowind twice, quit twice, then gave up and modded the most annoying parts. The graphics arent amazing, but I did enjoy the story!

Sanguinor2

Personally the only Tribunal member I really care About is Sotha Sil. And thats mostly because of his appearances in Eso. Also doesnt hurt that he somewhat reminds me of my favourite character from the Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel book series.

Wing

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

By the time she finished the Morrowind dlc, my Bosmer had to strongly fight the temptation to dislike all Dunmer.

Same happened with Summerset and the Altmer.

By contrast, completing Murkmire made her affection for Argonians grow.

I pretty much agree with this, and anecdotally this was the same for the people I mainly play with. in fact murkmire made a friend of mine who hated argonians start playing one because they liked it so much.

Michae

Well isn't this just the flavor of Tribunal? Think of them as something akin to Greek gods. Flawed, greedy and proud. Just really human-like in essence. And the xenophobia of Dunmer just adds this flavor of being in the foreign land in TESIII which coupled with unique design of Vvardenfell was really good. As opposed to medieval and roman inspired Cyrodiil and medieval-viking Skyrim, Morrowind was really unique in it's appearance, it was something we've never seen before and therefore it's so memorable and popular. And various shades of grey and moral ambiguity only added to that portrayal. Real world isn't black and white, I don't know where you're from but every country has it's dose of shady stuff and corruption going on. And it's that perspective that made Morrowind so much more real.

MartiniDaniels

LuxLunae wrote: »

Thanks for the spoilers everyone.. i never played morrowind back when it came out...I was hoping todd howard would finally make a new engine and crank out all morrowind, oblivion and skyrim in a 120 one pack... before TES 6 drops....


since that is not happening...spoil more please..can't stand those graphics...

All the Nerevarin vs Tribunal vs Dagoth Ur thing is just a relatively small part of huge detailed and thoughtful world, so you are still missing most of the cake. As for the graphics, Morrowind looks better then ESO in trial/PVP settings.

TheShadowScout

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The tragedy of Nerevar is that he was betrayed by everyone he had ever trusted and respected.

...and that was the sorrowful part of the Morrowind story that made me love the dunmer so much. Such a great story behind all the lies and deceptions... and everyone of them thinks they are in the right, Almalexia who had come to believe her own propagande, Sothra Sil who has pretty much how to be a living being, and Vivec who... was just Vivec! And of course also Dagoth Ur, whose dreams of revenge at any cost (to the people of morrowind) had to be stopped.
Really, its neat how you find out the only really decent ones are the "primitive" ashlanders!

But its -exactly- those shades of gray that made me love the dunmer so much!

Huyen

Wing wrote: »

*Disclaimer*
-I think its cool that shady stuff happens and not everyone is perfect or good, makes it more believable or interesting.
-TES lore is from in universe perspective and thus subject to conflicting reports or versions, dragon breaks don't help either.
*/Disclaimer*

I feel bad for Dagoth

yup, that's right, the villian of morrowind.

was the best friend of Lord Nerevar, head of a great house, fought with him at the battle of red mountain, and was entrusted to keep the tools and the heart safe from use.

but then three false gods walts up, kill Lord Nerevar, kill Lord Dagoth, take the tools and the heart, use them to become "gods" and wipe out and disperse his house into the others.

he does not *really die* goes crazy, does eventually get revenge on the tribunal, before the reincarnation of his best friend kills his now crazy self.

tribunal get what's coming to them, every lie incurs a debt to the truth.



posted before almalexia finds me


man I hate the tribunal /ashlanders did nothing wrong.

Its because of the Council that the dunmer got screwed...so yeah...

Vigawatt

Just going to say, I wear the Hand of Almalexia costume and whenever someone asks me to craft gear and doesn't specify a style I craft it in Militant Ordinator. I know who my gods are.

gepe87

Although all about Tribunal betrayal, the made a Golden Age for Dunmer. They really care about their people.
Still better than mad Daedric Princes.

rotaugen454

I dunno, I think Sotha Sil had good intentions.

Numerikuu

The Tribunal (and by extension the TES3 DLC) are probably the main reason I decided to delve deeper into TES. Despite the horrid mess that ESO is in at the moment, I'm beyond grateful that we finally got to see and interact with Sotha Sil, and that he was done right. Vivec is pretty wild. Alma is pure evil (trapping her soul in Azura's Star was cathartic as all hell). Sil is tragic, and my favourite of the three.

Integral1900

Let the dark elves have their golden age, it will just make their apocalyptic fall all the better 😎

Razzledazzle_dar

I like the lore of the Tribunal and what they mean and are for the Dunmer people in the second era. However, I find Vivec to be the most likeable of the three when you're actually talking to him. Almalexia and Sotha Sil both seem very wrapped up in the fact that they are living gods and don't seem to want to fraternize with someone as "lowly" as the vestige.

Wing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR-K2rUP86M

relevant

Cloudless

TheShadowScout

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I dunno, I think Sotha Sil had good intentions.

Does he even -have- any "intentions" anymore? Pay attention to the talk you have with him at the end of CWC sometime... all that stuff he says about how he no longer has any freedom of choice because he does only what he "must do"... it makes him sound like he has finally resigned himself to be a professional NPC! Waitaminit...

Sylvermynx

Of course, when I consider Vivec (the god not the city!), I instantly recall that lorebook - oh, not a lore book, it was one of the Sermons, don't remember the number now.... where he is quasi-dismembered and then "marries" Molag Bal.... (with the assumed concomitant behaviors). So we have this living god who's bi? Or is it the daedric lord who's bi?

Probably Bal - daedra don't really have gender-specificity....

barney2525

I thought Dagoth was killed by Conan in Conan the Destroyer

TheShadowScout

Sylvermynx wrote: »

So we have this living god who's bi?

At the very least!
Like we learn in CWC... Vivec kinda wants to be -everything-, every race, every gender, everything... but in the end, can only be... Vivec.
As for Molag Bal... he is not called the "King of Ra... (eh, the thing I cannot mention on the forums)" because he discriminates who he does the nasty with!

barney2525 wrote: »

I thought Dagoth was killed by Conan in Conan the Destroyer

Yeah. Different universe tho.
In TES, "Dagoth" is just a name for the sixth house, the lost house of the dunmer.