I will give you one point, I'd like to see cross platform unlocks of account wide crown store purchases. Sure, maybe not for anything that goes in your inventory or is per character, but they should be able to unlock collection level items, same way chapters and ESO + crosses regions.

Speaking of, there are three platforms, but 6 servers. Not that long ago we saw EU PC implement log in metering to handle server strain. Not promising when thinking of further consolidation.

And on that point, ESO already has mega severs. One Tamriel took that a step further by unlocking alliances outside Cyrodiil. What would cross platform entail in terms of effort vs. reward? When they reworked the item data tables to add search to guild stores, they warned of 2 hour load screen on our first log back in. When they got to work on console luanch, they stopped putting out new content for about half a year. How many characters would you be allowed, would you be forced to delete any? Would you need to rename your characters on log in? Would add-ons need to be restricted on PC? When I start to tally them the negatives begin to out number the supposed benefits of cross-play.

Donny_Vito wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

"A game developer reading this". LOL

Meaning one of the ZoS people I tagged, though condescend as you will... Any other thoughts of yours to add to the conversation?

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Good article. Nice snippet about the cross-platform play as well. The only defense ZoS has is that they started developing this game at a time when cross-platform play was not that popular. And at this point in the life of ESO, trying to add the ability to have cross-platform functionality would be like adding a turbo charger into a car with 200,000 miles on it. There would need to be so many other changes, specifically data, which will make this never happen.

VaranisArano wrote: »

My reaction to the Forbes article at the time was "They want ESO to have cross play so they can have more players online at once, but if there's one thing we know, its that ESO cannot handle lots of players online at once."

With Midyear Mayhem cancelled, repeated guild history issues, and continuous Cyrodiil issues, I'm going to say that nothing's changed.

ESO is not built for a higher demand from more players.

With all due respect to the both of you, people also said a transmogrifying like system in the game would never work either in the past. And that was not the case, in terms of what is possible and not possible on the coding side I can't take those kinds of comments too seriously when they aren't coming from a place of personal experience on this game. Even in my own experience in coding not just software but servers and graphical engineering, anything is possible. It's more weighed against cost vs. worth. In terms of the engine and what its capable of is completely in the coders hands and ability... Even there though my own knowledge is limited as i've never directly worked as a video game developer/programmer, but as far as I'm aware that would be my current stance though we can agree to disagree unless you know any other information regarding the impossible nature of adding this feature, but stated by ZoS who directly say what you've both mentioned? If you could link that information (ZOS themselves going through what you've both talked about in why its not possible etc) I'd love to read it Thanks to both of you for the reply!!

Well, this is actually coming from a place of professional experience. In databases, there are "constraints" which play a big role in the structure and integrity of data. ESO has multiple databases for all the different servers. You would not be able to just insert data from one server to the next without A LOT of functionality in place to handle the constraints. Like I said, at this point in the life of ESO it's just not feasible to change the whole data structure in order to accommodate cross-platform playing.

The example you gave about transforming an items (color, trait, etc..) is such a small data value change that it's implementation is so minuet compared to adding cross-platform functionality.


Edit: Misspelling of the french word "minuet"

I do appreciate your experience and can give you the benefit of the doubt in your actual experience, but unless you've worked directly with ZOS and know exactly how they've set up their servers and how exactly they are coding them and the engine it's still just hearsay to the degree of knowing what is in their ability / being worth their time based on their teams / experience and efficiency in doing their job, and the equipment they are using etc etc. Like i can appreciate thinking it to be impossible, not worth while, too much work for no return but that holds very little weight and that's why I used the transmorphing as an example.

People had said to my very post, about adding transmorphing 2 years before it ever happened, that it was impossible or not worth the time investment. They'd said nope not possible. Not worth the time. Far to complex with all transmorphing entailed including making dye's work with that system etc etc, people said the same thing. And while I appreciate the skepticism or trying to be realistic, you just don't know the capability of ZoS unless you've worked there in development extensively. And I dont doubt your experience at all or think you're bullshtting, I just rather here it from the mouth of ZoS and not a player of their video game... If you'd like I can find you all the similar posts in the transmorphing i was refering too and give you the link to read through them and see the similarity between the arguments as to why not both there and in this post lol...

celner4_ESO wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

Cross platform would leave PC in a huge advantage over console players, unless the intentionally gimp the combat like FFXIV. Neither one of those sounds like a smart move to me.

I do agree with you when it comes to pvp, though they could have pvp be phased so when you are pvping you are only pvping with people on the same platform as you.

How do you believe they gimp combat in FFXIV because of cross platform play? Honest question I started playing the game when it was already cross platform unless it was always cross platform I don't know the details there as I never read into it specifically. Thanks for your comment too!

It would also effect dungeons and trials significantly. In FFXIV, since they have the hardware disparity and extra layers of communication between PC and PS4 they use the global cooldown system to level the playing field and normalize character performance for both sides. That is why the pace of combat compared to ESO is significantly slower.

So in ESO, it would be PC having a definite advantage. Even before add-ons, because the game runs better on most computers. Would give PC higher reaction times, leading to better parses and survivability. Then the add-ons on top of that compound the issue.

The alternative would be to slow down combat with a global cooldowns essentially removing weaving, roll dodging, and blocking in the extent that we currently have. It is because the combat is so nuanced and can be complex that it creates many issues for things like this.

Where something like shooters, while still have they RNG spread calculations aren't dependent in the same matter. They are more ping, server refresh rates, FPS, and twitch reaction. Even then, PC still has the advantage with mouse aiming over controller.

BigBragg wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

Cross platform would leave PC in a huge advantage over console players, unless the intentionally gimp the combat like FFXIV. Neither one of those sounds like a smart move to me.

I do agree with you when it comes to pvp, though they could have pvp be phased so when you are pvping you are only pvping with people on the same platform as you.

How do you believe they gimp combat in FFXIV because of cross platform play? Honest question I started playing the game when it was already cross platform unless it was always cross platform I don't know the details there as I never read into it specifically. Thanks for your comment too!

It would also effect dungeons and trials significantly. In FFXIV, since they have the hardware disparity and extra layers of communication between PC and PS4 they use the global cooldown system to level the playing field and normalize character performance for both sides. That is why the pace of combat compared to ESO is significantly slower.

So in ESO, it would be PC having a definite advantage. Even before add-ons, because the game runs better on most computers. Would give PC higher reaction times, leading to better parses and survivability. Then the add-ons on top of that compound the issue.

The alternative would be to slow down combat with a global cooldowns essentially removing weaving, roll dodging, and blocking in the extent that we currently have. It is because the combat is so nuanced and can be complex that it creates many issues for things like this.

Where something like shooters, while still have they RNG spread calculations aren't dependent in the same matter. They are more ping, server refresh rates, FPS, and twitch reaction. Even then, PC still has the advantage with mouse aiming over controller.

I totally agree with you, but again my gripe isnt with play its with account saving! Though i'd imagine they could keep pvp seperate from pve, where pvp could be your platform only and pve could be them all if they did decide to do cross-platform play. Though do you know is the difference in parses say for pve, from the best players on consoles parses comparitively to players on PC that bad? Where do you see the info for this by chance if theres a website showing top players parses for ESO, both consoles and PC?

Wolfpaw wrote: »

I also thought they would have character transfers to different platforms by now considering zos did allow pc toons to transfer at console release.

Best mmorpg to date, not imo.

WoW has held that spot due to innovation, longevity (15y!?), performance, & still a sub! I don't see ESO ever lasting that long.

GW1 & GW2 innovation (best lfg, & global trade ever in a mmorpg), unique non trinity combat, tech that allows zero down time for updates & patches. Overall a great mmo that really would have broke records if Anet did a port to console.

ESO takes 3rd. One of the better combat systems in the mmo genre, & a brilliant business move to consoles that has carried this game beyond just its IP.

Unfortunatly a lousy lfg system, consistent unplayable performance issues, an awful trade system, untrustworthy leadership, & a lack of pride/quality in content releases will be what most remember years to come. Zenimax Media unfortunately has built a bad rep when it comes to quality content/game releases. I do hope zos has the dedication to fix performance & reputation, but after this many years idk.

Final fantasy sits up there somewhere as the come-back kid. Dedicated company, strong pve, & a proven sense of pride in the quality of content they release. A niche dedicated following due to the anime artstyle/game, pve focused mmo (you don't play FF for the pvp), & required sub.

Just my 2c.

appreciate your take on your top 5 list for mmo's haha, ESO will still be top for me in terms of gameplay both for pvp and pve and in content relevancy (all content remaining relevant) and rewarding exploration. GW2 would be my 3rd and WoW 2nd for me. I'm not looking at this in terms of their success though like you were pointing out with WoW, im talking simply in terms of what i've enjoyed most and why, which i went over in the OP!

but liked your explanation for your list and why it's good

celner4_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

"A game developer reading this". LOL

Meaning one of the ZoS people I tagged, though condescend as you will... Any other thoughts of yours to add to the conversation?

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Good article. Nice snippet about the cross-platform play as well. The only defense ZoS has is that they started developing this game at a time when cross-platform play was not that popular. And at this point in the life of ESO, trying to add the ability to have cross-platform functionality would be like adding a turbo charger into a car with 200,000 miles on it. There would need to be so many other changes, specifically data, which will make this never happen.

VaranisArano wrote: »

My reaction to the Forbes article at the time was "They want ESO to have cross play so they can have more players online at once, but if there's one thing we know, its that ESO cannot handle lots of players online at once."

With Midyear Mayhem cancelled, repeated guild history issues, and continuous Cyrodiil issues, I'm going to say that nothing's changed.

ESO is not built for a higher demand from more players.

With all due respect to the both of you, people also said a transmogrifying like system in the game would never work either in the past. And that was not the case, in terms of what is possible and not possible on the coding side I can't take those kinds of comments too seriously when they aren't coming from a place of personal experience on this game. Even in my own experience in coding not just software but servers and graphical engineering, anything is possible. It's more weighed against cost vs. worth. In terms of the engine and what its capable of is completely in the coders hands and ability... Even there though my own knowledge is limited as i've never directly worked as a video game developer/programmer, but as far as I'm aware that would be my current stance though we can agree to disagree unless you know any other information regarding the impossible nature of adding this feature, but stated by ZoS who directly say what you've both mentioned? If you could link that information (ZOS themselves going through what you've both talked about in why its not possible etc) I'd love to read it Thanks to both of you for the reply!!

I mean, here's the obvious link to the Support page where they say they don't have the capability to transfer accounts: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/25807/~/can-i-transfer-my-eso-account-and-characters-between-different-platforms?

And yes, you can play the "well, if its worth the $$$ and effort, anything can happen" card. That's certainly true.

But my point was more that, realistically...
Since before the start of the year, ZOS has been plagued with multiple issues that each time ZOS admitted were caused by an increased demand on the servers because of increased population. (PC EU server queue, Groupfinder, Guild History, etc.) So having more players on the server, as Forbes suggests, is going to require a lot of work from ZOS before they can even consider having Cross Play go well.

Forbes made their argument from a very general stance of "More Players = Good", which ignores the obvious reality of ESO in 2019 which is that "More Players = a broken game".

If Cross Play is ever going to be a thing, ZOS must fix their game to be able to handle the additional players on the servers.

No they did not say they do not have the capability or to transfer accounts. "We have not built, and do not plan to build, the capability to move individual characters from platform to platform.".

They said they don't plan to build the capability to move individual characters in that specific link you put in your comment. which doesn't at all mean they simply aren't capable of doing it or they'd have directly said along the lines of 'We are not capable of doing this AT ALL ever'...

And I disagree with your opinion that "More Players = a broken game", for one broken means it is no longer usable as intended. Secondly it's not a reality. Sure every time a new patch or expansion releases with new content or functionality there will be bugs. That is far from being broken much less a reality of that. Broken is a term used far too often by upset gamers these days who don't like things in a game they really enjoy. I respect where its coming from a place of passion but its overall dishonest because if the game did become broken because of more players it'd no longer be playable. Now if its bugged to where its no longer suitable to your enjoyment and you deem that unplayable/broken then that's still not a broken game itself.
If I'm misunderstanding you in any of what you said please let me know thank you for responding!

I mean "broken" as in:

An influx of players to PC/EU created gamebreaking problems for players and forced ZOS to implement a login queue to the game to alleviate issues until they could get their server upgrades done. PC/NA was heading for the same issues, so don't think it can't happen to consoles.

Activity Finder has been breaking under high demand for 2 years now, forcing ZOS to revamp the while thing and again, implementing a queue for the queue until they can get it fixed.

ZOS cancels Midyear Mayhem because they can't fix the Battlegrounds Groupfinder in time for the event, which puts players into matches that never start. It won't be fixed until Q4 or Q1 of next year. (They've known about the bug for over 6 months).

Oh, and ZOS had to turn off Guild History on PC because of the influx of new players generating information thanks to the new Guildfinder.


All of those examples have been officially acknowledged by ZOS to be caused by too many players wanting to use that game service. Effectively, what's happening is too many players = that part of the game breaks.

I don't know about you, but I actually pay attention to the problems ESO has and why ZOS says they have those problems.

Cross Play is going to be a disaster if ZOS doesnt take steps to prepare their servers.

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

"A game developer reading this". LOL

Meaning one of the ZoS people I tagged, though condescend as you will... Any other thoughts of yours to add to the conversation?

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Good article. Nice snippet about the cross-platform play as well. The only defense ZoS has is that they started developing this game at a time when cross-platform play was not that popular. And at this point in the life of ESO, trying to add the ability to have cross-platform functionality would be like adding a turbo charger into a car with 200,000 miles on it. There would need to be so many other changes, specifically data, which will make this never happen.

VaranisArano wrote: »

My reaction to the Forbes article at the time was "They want ESO to have cross play so they can have more players online at once, but if there's one thing we know, its that ESO cannot handle lots of players online at once."

With Midyear Mayhem cancelled, repeated guild history issues, and continuous Cyrodiil issues, I'm going to say that nothing's changed.

ESO is not built for a higher demand from more players.

With all due respect to the both of you, people also said a transmogrifying like system in the game would never work either in the past. And that was not the case, in terms of what is possible and not possible on the coding side I can't take those kinds of comments too seriously when they aren't coming from a place of personal experience on this game. Even in my own experience in coding not just software but servers and graphical engineering, anything is possible. It's more weighed against cost vs. worth. In terms of the engine and what its capable of is completely in the coders hands and ability... Even there though my own knowledge is limited as i've never directly worked as a video game developer/programmer, but as far as I'm aware that would be my current stance though we can agree to disagree unless you know any other information regarding the impossible nature of adding this feature, but stated by ZoS who directly say what you've both mentioned? If you could link that information (ZOS themselves going through what you've both talked about in why its not possible etc) I'd love to read it Thanks to both of you for the reply!!

I mean, here's the obvious link to the Support page where they say they don't have the capability to transfer accounts: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/25807/~/can-i-transfer-my-eso-account-and-characters-between-different-platforms?

And yes, you can play the "well, if its worth the $$$ and effort, anything can happen" card. That's certainly true.

But my point was more that, realistically...
Since before the start of the year, ZOS has been plagued with multiple issues that each time ZOS admitted were caused by an increased demand on the servers because of increased population. (PC EU server queue, Groupfinder, Guild History, etc.) So having more players on the server, as Forbes suggests, is going to require a lot of work from ZOS before they can even consider having Cross Play go well.

Forbes made their argument from a very general stance of "More Players = Good", which ignores the obvious reality of ESO in 2019 which is that "More Players = a broken game".

If Cross Play is ever going to be a thing, ZOS must fix their game to be able to handle the additional players on the servers.

No they did not say they do not have the capability or to transfer accounts. "We have not built, and do not plan to build, the capability to move individual characters from platform to platform.".

They said they don't plan to build the capability to move individual characters in that specific link you put in your comment. which doesn't at all mean they simply aren't capable of doing it or they'd have directly said along the lines of 'We are not capable of doing this AT ALL ever'...

And I disagree with your opinion that "More Players = a broken game", for one broken means it is no longer usable as intended. Secondly it's not a reality. Sure every time a new patch or expansion releases with new content or functionality there will be bugs. That is far from being broken much less a reality of that. Broken is a term used far too often by upset gamers these days who don't like things in a game they really enjoy. I respect where its coming from a place of passion but its overall dishonest because if the game did become broken because of more players it'd no longer be playable. Now if its bugged to where its no longer suitable to your enjoyment and you deem that unplayable/broken then that's still not a broken game itself.
If I'm misunderstanding you in any of what you said please let me know thank you for responding!

I mean "broken" as in:

An influx of players to PC/EU created gamebreaking problems for players and forced ZOS to implement a login queue to the game to alleviate issues until they could get their server upgrades done. PC/NA was heading for the same issues, so don't think it can't happen to consoles.

Activity Finder has been breaking under high demand for 2 years now, forcing ZOS to revamp the while thing and again, implementing a queue for the queue until they can get it fixed.

ZOS cancels Midyear Mayhem because they can't fix the Battlegrounds Groupfinder in time for the event, which puts players into matches that never start. It won't be fixed until Q4 or Q1 of next year. (They've known about the bug for over 6 months).

Oh, and ZOS had to turn off Guild History on PC because of the influx of new players generating information thanks to the new Guildfinder.


All of those examples have been officially acknowledged by ZOS to be caused by too many players wanting to use that game service. Effectively, what's happening is too many players = that part of the game breaks.

I don't know about you, but I actually pay attention to the problems ESO has and why ZOS says they have those problems.

Cross Play is going to be a disaster if ZOS doesnt take steps to prepare their servers.

I'm really really glad you pay attention to the problems ESO has, heres a /hug for you. Forums will always be riddled with unsatisfied people who will always take scoffing stance in any suggestions simply because they want the bugs that "bug" that player fixed first.

Now again I'm really really glad you pay attention to the problems ESO has and for your sake I hope they're addressed so you can feel warm and fuzzy inside and if I've at all upset you by making you feel like what i want for the game is more important the the problems you think need to be fixed sooner, I'm sorry, your problems are far more important then my suggestions!

But on a lighter note!
https://gamingbolt.com/elder-scrolls-online-team-aware-crossplay-features-are-wanted

"We know this is kind of what players want,” said Lambert. “And we are starting to see more and more announcements about it. We don’t have anything on the roadmap currently, but we’re aware.”

Cross-play features are starting to become a lot more common than they once were, so it’s not hard to see a near future where at least cross-saves come to the popular MMO. Elder Scrolls Online is available now for PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC.

celner4_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

"A game developer reading this". LOL

Meaning one of the ZoS people I tagged, though condescend as you will... Any other thoughts of yours to add to the conversation?

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Good article. Nice snippet about the cross-platform play as well. The only defense ZoS has is that they started developing this game at a time when cross-platform play was not that popular. And at this point in the life of ESO, trying to add the ability to have cross-platform functionality would be like adding a turbo charger into a car with 200,000 miles on it. There would need to be so many other changes, specifically data, which will make this never happen.

VaranisArano wrote: »

My reaction to the Forbes article at the time was "They want ESO to have cross play so they can have more players online at once, but if there's one thing we know, its that ESO cannot handle lots of players online at once."

With Midyear Mayhem cancelled, repeated guild history issues, and continuous Cyrodiil issues, I'm going to say that nothing's changed.

ESO is not built for a higher demand from more players.

With all due respect to the both of you, people also said a transmogrifying like system in the game would never work either in the past. And that was not the case, in terms of what is possible and not possible on the coding side I can't take those kinds of comments too seriously when they aren't coming from a place of personal experience on this game. Even in my own experience in coding not just software but servers and graphical engineering, anything is possible. It's more weighed against cost vs. worth. In terms of the engine and what its capable of is completely in the coders hands and ability... Even there though my own knowledge is limited as i've never directly worked as a video game developer/programmer, but as far as I'm aware that would be my current stance though we can agree to disagree unless you know any other information regarding the impossible nature of adding this feature, but stated by ZoS who directly say what you've both mentioned? If you could link that information (ZOS themselves going through what you've both talked about in why its not possible etc) I'd love to read it Thanks to both of you for the reply!!

I mean, here's the obvious link to the Support page where they say they don't have the capability to transfer accounts: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/25807/~/can-i-transfer-my-eso-account-and-characters-between-different-platforms?

And yes, you can play the "well, if its worth the $$$ and effort, anything can happen" card. That's certainly true.

But my point was more that, realistically...
Since before the start of the year, ZOS has been plagued with multiple issues that each time ZOS admitted were caused by an increased demand on the servers because of increased population. (PC EU server queue, Groupfinder, Guild History, etc.) So having more players on the server, as Forbes suggests, is going to require a lot of work from ZOS before they can even consider having Cross Play go well.

Forbes made their argument from a very general stance of "More Players = Good", which ignores the obvious reality of ESO in 2019 which is that "More Players = a broken game".

If Cross Play is ever going to be a thing, ZOS must fix their game to be able to handle the additional players on the servers.

No they did not say they do not have the capability or to transfer accounts. "We have not built, and do not plan to build, the capability to move individual characters from platform to platform.".

They said they don't plan to build the capability to move individual characters in that specific link you put in your comment. which doesn't at all mean they simply aren't capable of doing it or they'd have directly said along the lines of 'We are not capable of doing this AT ALL ever'...

And I disagree with your opinion that "More Players = a broken game", for one broken means it is no longer usable as intended. Secondly it's not a reality. Sure every time a new patch or expansion releases with new content or functionality there will be bugs. That is far from being broken much less a reality of that. Broken is a term used far too often by upset gamers these days who don't like things in a game they really enjoy. I respect where its coming from a place of passion but its overall dishonest because if the game did become broken because of more players it'd no longer be playable. Now if its bugged to where its no longer suitable to your enjoyment and you deem that unplayable/broken then that's still not a broken game itself.
If I'm misunderstanding you in any of what you said please let me know thank you for responding!

I mean "broken" as in:

An influx of players to PC/EU created gamebreaking problems for players and forced ZOS to implement a login queue to the game to alleviate issues until they could get their server upgrades done. PC/NA was heading for the same issues, so don't think it can't happen to consoles.

Activity Finder has been breaking under high demand for 2 years now, forcing ZOS to revamp the while thing and again, implementing a queue for the queue until they can get it fixed.

ZOS cancels Midyear Mayhem because they can't fix the Battlegrounds Groupfinder in time for the event, which puts players into matches that never start. It won't be fixed until Q4 or Q1 of next year. (They've known about the bug for over 6 months).

Oh, and ZOS had to turn off Guild History on PC because of the influx of new players generating information thanks to the new Guildfinder.


All of those examples have been officially acknowledged by ZOS to be caused by too many players wanting to use that game service. Effectively, what's happening is too many players = that part of the game breaks.

I don't know about you, but I actually pay attention to the problems ESO has and why ZOS says they have those problems.

Cross Play is going to be a disaster if ZOS doesnt take steps to prepare their servers.

I'm really really glad you pay attention to the problems ESO has, heres a /hug for you. Forums will always be riddled with unsatisfied people who will always take scoffing stance in any suggestions simply because they want the bugs that "bug" that player fixed first.

Now again I'm really really glad you pay attention to the problems ESO has and for your sake I hope they're addressed so you can feel warm and fuzzy inside and if I've at all upset you by making you feel like what i want for the game is more important the the problems you think need to be fixed sooner, I'm sorry, your problems are far more important then my suggestions!

But on a lighter note!
https://gamingbolt.com/elder-scrolls-online-team-aware-crossplay-features-are-wanted

"We know this is kind of what players want,” said Lambert. “And we are starting to see more and more announcements about it. We don’t have anything on the roadmap currently, but we’re aware.”

Cross-play features are starting to become a lot more common than they once were, so it’s not hard to see a near future where at least cross-saves come to the popular MMO. Elder Scrolls Online is available now for PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC.

I'm not actually opposed to Cross Play, so I'm glad for you that the ESO Team is aware of your desires!

But, um, in case you missed it in the Dev Tracker, those four problems I pointed out were serious enough for ZOS to officially comment on and change how the game works because an increase in players broke part of the game. So those arent just "my issues", they impacted entire platforms and everyone who wants to use Activity Finder (kind of an essential part of the game).

So my point about Cross Play is that if it happens without ZOS fixing their servers first, those are going to be your issues too, as the game continues to break essential functions under increased demand.

So its to your benefit and the benefit of everyone who wants Cross Play to go well that ZOS fix those systems and prepare for the greater demand.

celner4_ESO wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

I will give you one point, I'd like to see cross platform unlocks of account wide crown store purchases. Sure, maybe not for anything that goes in your inventory or is per character, but they should be able to unlock collection level items, same way chapters and ESO + crosses regions.

Speaking of, there are three platforms, but 6 servers. Not that long ago we saw EU PC implement log in metering to handle server strain. Not promising when thinking of further consolidation.

And on that point, ESO already has mega severs. One Tamriel took that a step further by unlocking alliances outside Cyrodiil. What would cross platform entail in terms of effort vs. reward? When they reworked the item data tables to add search to guild stores, they warned of 2 hour load screen on our first log back in. When they got to work on console luanch, they stopped putting out new content for about half a year. How many characters would you be allowed, would you be forced to delete any? Would you need to rename your characters on log in? Would add-ons need to be restricted on PC? When I start to tally them the negatives begin to out number the supposed benefits of cross-play.

I completely agree with you on the crownstore unlocks transferring over, thats really the only thing i care about since I don't mind re earning the in game stuff with my time... I did point that out in the post if you read it all caring only about cross-platform saving far more then play, imo not needing play really as I've never experienced a shortage of players when I'd played.

I'd imagine if One-Tamriel never happened there'd be all sorts of arguements as to how that'd have been impossible. Unless you work directly with ZOS as a coder or tech support with knowledge of their exact systems in place regarding servers limitations, and knowing the engine and its capabilities and limitations, I can appreciate where you're coming from but anything regarding whether its possible or not I'd rather hear directly from ZoS, and I do believe there is a reason ZoS has never said they absolutely will not do cross platform anything. anything they have said has been either "We currently have not created the ability to transfer individual characters", or "no we do not provide 'said' service"... So anything going based off those in saying 'they cannot do this or that' is just conjecture from my point of view based off what exactly they've said, and assuming you've not worked for them in coding or tech support.

Your point on addons i want to touch on cause other people have brought up add ons as well, in terms of cross-platform saving because thats all i really want. Add ons could still be allowed your UI would just be reset to default of console but obviously saved in your game files of the PC. If I'm misunderstanding you on the add on stuff let me know!

Add-ons are a rather wide topic. Some of them provide automation of writ crafting, some may provide additional info in PvP not available to those with the base game tools, ect.

Also the technical is an aspect that is partially hidden from us, logistics is another matter. Let's talk about tripling the number trade guilds on the server fighting for the same number of kiosk spots.

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

"A game developer reading this". LOL

Meaning one of the ZoS people I tagged, though condescend as you will... Any other thoughts of yours to add to the conversation?

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Good article. Nice snippet about the cross-platform play as well. The only defense ZoS has is that they started developing this game at a time when cross-platform play was not that popular. And at this point in the life of ESO, trying to add the ability to have cross-platform functionality would be like adding a turbo charger into a car with 200,000 miles on it. There would need to be so many other changes, specifically data, which will make this never happen.

VaranisArano wrote: »

My reaction to the Forbes article at the time was "They want ESO to have cross play so they can have more players online at once, but if there's one thing we know, its that ESO cannot handle lots of players online at once."

With Midyear Mayhem cancelled, repeated guild history issues, and continuous Cyrodiil issues, I'm going to say that nothing's changed.

ESO is not built for a higher demand from more players.

With all due respect to the both of you, people also said a transmogrifying like system in the game would never work either in the past. And that was not the case, in terms of what is possible and not possible on the coding side I can't take those kinds of comments too seriously when they aren't coming from a place of personal experience on this game. Even in my own experience in coding not just software but servers and graphical engineering, anything is possible. It's more weighed against cost vs. worth. In terms of the engine and what its capable of is completely in the coders hands and ability... Even there though my own knowledge is limited as i've never directly worked as a video game developer/programmer, but as far as I'm aware that would be my current stance though we can agree to disagree unless you know any other information regarding the impossible nature of adding this feature, but stated by ZoS who directly say what you've both mentioned? If you could link that information (ZOS themselves going through what you've both talked about in why its not possible etc) I'd love to read it Thanks to both of you for the reply!!

I mean, here's the obvious link to the Support page where they say they don't have the capability to transfer accounts: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/25807/~/can-i-transfer-my-eso-account-and-characters-between-different-platforms?

And yes, you can play the "well, if its worth the $$$ and effort, anything can happen" card. That's certainly true.

But my point was more that, realistically...
Since before the start of the year, ZOS has been plagued with multiple issues that each time ZOS admitted were caused by an increased demand on the servers because of increased population. (PC EU server queue, Groupfinder, Guild History, etc.) So having more players on the server, as Forbes suggests, is going to require a lot of work from ZOS before they can even consider having Cross Play go well.

Forbes made their argument from a very general stance of "More Players = Good", which ignores the obvious reality of ESO in 2019 which is that "More Players = a broken game".

If Cross Play is ever going to be a thing, ZOS must fix their game to be able to handle the additional players on the servers.

No they did not say they do not have the capability or to transfer accounts. "We have not built, and do not plan to build, the capability to move individual characters from platform to platform.".

They said they don't plan to build the capability to move individual characters in that specific link you put in your comment. which doesn't at all mean they simply aren't capable of doing it or they'd have directly said along the lines of 'We are not capable of doing this AT ALL ever'...

And I disagree with your opinion that "More Players = a broken game", for one broken means it is no longer usable as intended. Secondly it's not a reality. Sure every time a new patch or expansion releases with new content or functionality there will be bugs. That is far from being broken much less a reality of that. Broken is a term used far too often by upset gamers these days who don't like things in a game they really enjoy. I respect where its coming from a place of passion but its overall dishonest because if the game did become broken because of more players it'd no longer be playable. Now if its bugged to where its no longer suitable to your enjoyment and you deem that unplayable/broken then that's still not a broken game itself.
If I'm misunderstanding you in any of what you said please let me know thank you for responding!

I mean "broken" as in:

An influx of players to PC/EU created gamebreaking problems for players and forced ZOS to implement a login queue to the game to alleviate issues until they could get their server upgrades done. PC/NA was heading for the same issues, so don't think it can't happen to consoles.

Activity Finder has been breaking under high demand for 2 years now, forcing ZOS to revamp the while thing and again, implementing a queue for the queue until they can get it fixed.

ZOS cancels Midyear Mayhem because they can't fix the Battlegrounds Groupfinder in time for the event, which puts players into matches that never start. It won't be fixed until Q4 or Q1 of next year. (They've known about the bug for over 6 months).

Oh, and ZOS had to turn off Guild History on PC because of the influx of new players generating information thanks to the new Guildfinder.


All of those examples have been officially acknowledged by ZOS to be caused by too many players wanting to use that game service. Effectively, what's happening is too many players = that part of the game breaks.

I don't know about you, but I actually pay attention to the problems ESO has and why ZOS says they have those problems.

Cross Play is going to be a disaster if ZOS doesnt take steps to prepare their servers.

I'm really really glad you pay attention to the problems ESO has, heres a /hug for you. Forums will always be riddled with unsatisfied people who will always take scoffing stance in any suggestions simply because they want the bugs that "bug" that player fixed first.

Now again I'm really really glad you pay attention to the problems ESO has and for your sake I hope they're addressed so you can feel warm and fuzzy inside and if I've at all upset you by making you feel like what i want for the game is more important the the problems you think need to be fixed sooner, I'm sorry, your problems are far more important then my suggestions!

But on a lighter note!
https://gamingbolt.com/elder-scrolls-online-team-aware-crossplay-features-are-wanted

"We know this is kind of what players want,” said Lambert. “And we are starting to see more and more announcements about it. We don’t have anything on the roadmap currently, but we’re aware.”

Cross-play features are starting to become a lot more common than they once were, so it’s not hard to see a near future where at least cross-saves come to the popular MMO. Elder Scrolls Online is available now for PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC.

I'm not actually opposed to Cross Play, so I'm glad for you that the ESO Team is aware of your desires!

But, um, in case you missed it in the Dev Tracker, those four problems I pointed out were serious enough for ZOS to officially comment on and change how the game works because an increase in players broke part of the game. So those arent just "my issues", they impacted entire platforms and everyone who wants to use Activity Finder (kind of an essential part of the game).

So my point about Cross Play is that if it happens without ZOS fixing their servers first, those are going to be your issues too, as the game continues to break essential functions under increased demand.

So its to your benefit and the benefit of everyone who wants Cross Play to go well that ZOS fix those systems and prepare for the greater demand.

Didn't a new expansion just release? Issues should be expected shouldn't they right? Like.. Of course there are bugs. Of course we want them fixed. What is your point with this other then pointing out the obvious now about wanting bugs fixed.

When you initially started off with your first post where youre arguing that ZOS said they werent capable of doing Cross Platform Play, but the link you provided wasn't even related to cross play much less say ZoS want capable of doing it. And now you're backpeddling and referring to bug fixes needing attention when thats quite an obvious observation to point out... So I cant tell if you're trying to make some kind of point you can be satisfied with having in this thread or you're just wanting to go back and forth for no real reason at all with no real point on the topic at hand being cross platform saving (which is what my main suggestion was as per the OP.)? We all know as gamers that we want bug fixes, and if you're wanting the systematic ones fixed first because you as a random player of ESO see them as absolutely needed to cross play (which i want cross saving, again... not cross play given the choice between the two) as if you actually know lol... Unless you work for ZoS and do know what fixes are absolutely needed for this to work, because again you made a point of saying ZOS wasnt capable of even doing this in your first post... I just don't see what you want out of your posts other then petty banter, you otherwise would have never posted your first post knowing the first half was completely false saying ZOS said they werent capable of cross play (And cross play wasnt even my main concern if you actually read my post!!! Cross Platform Saving, THAT is what i wanted... lol....).

UnseenCat wrote: »

The earlier comment about database constraints is spot-on. It's not impossible, but it is an undertaking unlike any other. Unless you've been a database administrator, or designed and/or supported database systems in any capacity, it's very hard to understand all the moving parts and tiny details in which things can go horribly, horribly wrong. (Like Abnur accidentally releasing dragons wrong... ) It's not impossible, but it's costly in terms of time and manpower. And even if it's been tested every possible way, the chances for failure are non-zero. And that's still very,very frightening to those who support databases.

The greater unfortunate reality is that Sony in particular is reluctant to play nice with cross-platform connectivity of any sort. Even one-way save state transfers out of their walled garden isn't something they like. In the early days of ESO's console beta and debut, everybody pointed to Microsoft as the culprit -- and while they weren't guiltless, they've since made a 180-degree turn and now encourage at least cross-platform Xbox and PC play where possible. Had that been the reality in the beginning, we might have a very different situation on our hands.

But given the climate against cross-platform play at the time that ESO was developed and then adapted to consoles, ZOS made design decisions based on what was known at the time. Walking that back is terribly hard. I agree it would be beneficial to the game as a whole, but it's a very difficult task at the technical level.

Indeed and agreed! Although the post may be true to point, unless you know what they are using in terms of their database, hardware, and software being used... Like its very hard to understand, like you said, especially when you have no idea what exactly ZoS's setup is for both the hardware and software being used. So though it may seem ridiculously meticulous. We have no idea how efficient ZOS's development is (even if releases like expansions or large patches are buggy AF) team and tech support is, much less having a intimate understanding of what those teams are using and what they're capable of with those tools. Its just as impossible to pretend we have any comprehension of what ZoS can do not having any idea of what I posted above. As far as I'm aware unless they provide all that information to us somewhere I'm not aware of. I'd imagine all of what they do is very technically difficult to varying degrees, would love to hear from the mouth of god in this case just how difficult it will be compared to something say like One-Tamriel was. Would be interesting I'd love to listen or read that information!

celner4_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

While I can understand someone who is committed to playing the game on one platform not being concerned with the question of cross-platform account transfers, I would have thought that in the event of one platform machine dying and the decision being taken to replace it with a different platform machine there would be a point at which it would occur to most players to research whether cross-platform account transfers were permitted - before committing to the different platform machine replacement. There's never been the slightest hint that such account transfers would ever be permitted in the case of ESO, beyond the initial console launch when PC account transfers were permitted to an empty console database for a strictly limited time only. Forum opinion seems fairly clear that this is both as a result of technical and contractual limitations, and that it is unlikely to change.

Listen I elaborated on this already, but good on you if you had no circumstances in which you misunderstood the cross-platform not being a thing.

Also I never say that it's ZOS's fault for my not finding out the exact reasons for cross platform transfers and that they were a one time thing because of the misunderstanding I had carried with me when I had no intentions of changing platforms at the time so had no bother in ever reading into it. I only went off the fact my brother transferred from console to PC, had told me about it. then 2 years later my play station pooped and I decided I wanted to play ESO on a PC instead, with still having that experience with my brother in mind and not having thought anything of it.

You've referred twice to your brother transferring from console to PC, but was that ever possible other than by buying the game afresh with another account? I'm not aware that it was. What was possible for a short time was the copying of characters from PC to console (and only in that direction) when the console versions first launched. I don't believe it was ever possible to transfer characters from one platform or server to another outside that short period or other than by the routine copying of PC characters from Live servers to the PTS at specific times. I suspect your brother either moved from PC to console with existing characters in the narrow window when that was permitted or else moved from console to PC by means of purchasing another copy of the game and opening a new account.

He'd done the transfer from console to PC yeah it was near launch when they'd released the game on Ps4 and he'd moved his characters to Ps4 so we could play together! I've referred back to my OP that explains it there! If you still are questioning it then sorry, if you don't believe what the OP says why even comment to begin with? Except for the sake of petty banter..?

No, for the purpose of clarification. There was no transfer of characters from console to PC, only a copying of characters from PC to console for a short time. I believe that your brother would still have had his characters on PC so perhaps he did the character copy to PS4 but then reverted to playing his PC characters - that is quite different from transferring an account from one platform to another which is what you appear to be seeking now.