Someone tested healing changes on pts?

jecks33 · July 2019

As the title says, some group have tested in vet trials (no dungeons) if the healing changes are so bad or not?

mobicera · July 2019

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Strider__Roshin · July 2019

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Guess you'll just have to get better eh? Oh the horror....

mobicera · July 2019

Daus wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Guess you'll just have to get better eh? Oh the horror....

Umm that's what we are doing...
It's called progressing...
Very few people are actually at the level of top guilds...
The forums are simply populated mostly by the top players and not the average...
Balancing a game of the the 1% is frankly stupid...
So take your condescending attitude elsewhere...

Insco851 · July 2019

Daus wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Guess you'll just have to get better eh? Oh the horror....

Unheard of....

xeNNNNN · July 2019

Daus wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Guess you'll just have to get better eh? Oh the horror....

It isn't just a matter of getting better, there is a reason every single player is not as good as the top players. Brain, reaction time, capability they vary depending on the person and those things are in a high percentage for a very few individuals meaning the lack of understanding game mechanics how they work and how their own class works as well as the effectiveness of support roles doing so is problematic.

Not only that a lot of people play for fun, if you kill that fun then well... yeah the moment you turn playing into a chore for so many people....

If you want to kill endgame for 75% of the player base then this is how to do it.

Seraphayel · July 2019

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Players will get used to it. The recent meta for healing was just to comfortable to think outside the box, players will adapt as soon as they feel the need to which is the case when the U23 healing changes are live.

LordLomax · July 2019

People will have quit if goes live

TheNightflame · July 2019

you don't *have* to quit, you do because the role you favor loses it's appeal and no longer feels worth it to the point of preferring other things over the game (which is healthy)

edit: the fact the majority of the community (and zos' target audience) can't understand things like that repels those people from the game even further

Davadin · July 2019

so what is "end game"?

coz if it's just doing veteran DLC with PUG, it's currently already a mixed bag, which is good. not too hard, not too easy. making it a bit harder coz they nerf healing, doesn't sound very bad at all. normal trial is not hard. at all. vet trial may need a coordinated group, but can be pug-able.

i dont think it'll kill "75% of the player base" or anything.

if it's vet Trial hard-mode top 10 leaderboard, then *** yeah, it's reserved only for the top 5% to begin with, making their life harder, they should be jumping for joy instead of crying "MOAR CONTENTTTHHH PLEEZ"

PTS is fine.

healing is also fine.

self heal is crazy OP. (my stamDK's vigor is 27k/5 sec when i got major/minor brut, and Rally is about 19k after 20 sec)

Hexquisite · July 2019

This doesn't just affect Vet Trials, Anyone who has ever had to PUG, knows how this is going to go. I belong to PVP guilds and have to pug THe DLCs a lot, I can never PUG on my DPS as every group needs a healer, and it is always like an hour wait to get a healer. This is also why so many people falsely put themselves as healer for the Randoms.

Now sure, the top 1% can do even Vet DLC without healers, but, that is not the bread and butter of this game. Also how do you entice new people to start playing the game? If once they start doing dungeons they can't ever get a group going? I have PUGGED a lot on my healer, and many of these groups have super new players without maxed everything, they don't have all the passives etc, these are players that wouldn't be able to run Vets without a healer.

Now believe me, I don't think things should be a cakewalk, I once played an MMO where it took our guild 6 months to finally be able to finish a new raid that had come out, and we were the first ones to finish it. But, new players need to also be able to get a certain amount of content done.

THe game needs new people to keep rolling, or it will die out.

mobicera · July 2019

Davadin wrote: »

so what is "end game"?

coz if it's just doing veteran DLC with PUG, it's currently already a mixed bag, which is good. not too hard, not too easy. making it a bit harder coz they nerf healing, doesn't sound very bad at all. normal trial is not hard. at all. vet trial may need a coordinated group, but can be pug-able.

i dont think it'll kill "75% of the player base" or anything.

if it's vet Trial hard-mode top 10 leaderboard, then *** yeah, it's reserved only for the top 5% to begin with, making their life harder, they should be jumping for joy instead of crying "MOAR CONTENTTTHHH PLEEZ"

PTS is fine.

healing is also fine.

self heal is crazy OP. (my stamDK's vigor is 27k/5 sec when i got major/minor brut, and Rally is about 19k after 20 sec)

People know that the top leaderboard scores are only for the top 1%
But I am progressing through hard modes right now and I am just an average player playing with many other average gamers
What do you really think will happen when people like me the large average player base can't even get the first boss down in a trial let alone continue their progression in hard modes?
The answer many will simply quit...
Do you really think the average larger player base actually wants to lose all their progression because the top %1 can clear in 13 mins?
The changes to healing is not fine
The pts is not fine
Balancing a game around the tiny %1 will not help keep it going...

TheNightflame · July 2019

I don't think you guys are hitting one of the key points. The healer role will be at MAXIMUM REDUNDANCY this patch if things go live. healer healing output has a much lower cap now, and self healing is much higher, to put it shortly.

ZeroXFF · July 2019

Hm... Sounds like the Ritual mundus needs a massive buff to make up for all of this, as well as the + healing done stat on sets. It's only healers (and to a lesser degree some tanks) that would wear it, and if it's buffed by enough, it could make up for some of the nerfs while maintaining the newly decided upon relative performance of skills.

actosh · July 2019

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Link?

TheNightflame · July 2019

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Hm... Sounds like the Ritual mundus needs a massive buff to make up for all of this, as well as the + healing done stat on sets. It's only healers (and to a lesser degree some tanks) that would wear it, and if it's buffed by enough, it could make up for some of the nerfs while maintaining the newly decided upon relative performance of skills.

so that solved the redundancy issue, but it doesn't solve the issue of rewarding intelligent gameplay and making encounters engaging. what do we do when all our buffs, debuffs, and hots are up while no one needs a burst heal? start a damage rotation??. a lot of the issues are outlined in posts made by other healers, i reccomend checking them out, it's not a simple issue

Iskiab · July 2019

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Hm... Sounds like the Ritual mundus needs a massive buff to make up for all of this, as well as the + healing done stat on sets. It's only healers (and to a lesser degree some tanks) that would wear it, and if it's buffed by enough, it could make up for some of the nerfs while maintaining the newly decided upon relative performance of skills.

This is a really good idea. One of the main issues I see is self healing/healing from dps is just as high or higher then healers. The +healing done stat has been balanced with sp or magicka to yield the same output, and healers all wear buffing sets and don’t worry too much about gearing to increase healing output.

Buffing +healing modifiers and the ritual mundus would force people to spec to max their healing. Traditionally in trials healers use the recovery mundus because the ritual one is good but not great.

Seraphayel · July 2019

I’d love to have stats specifically for healer. Honestly I am sick and tired that every DPS build can push healing as far as a dedicated healer can just by maxing stats.

Ozby · July 2019

I think a lot of player do not really know how much healers save their butts in end game content and when this goes live it will be a shock to their system and they will be like "okay wow this is bad"

TheNightflame · July 2019

and then they'll run vigor more and be like "healers, who needed em?"

Hotdog_23 · July 2019

My biggest concern with the healing changes is kind of the same as before. I wish they would move vigor to the fighters guild skill line. Since it is the really the best heal for stamina to use and some people don't like PVP. Yes I know it is easy to get in about 2 hours of just doing BG's but again I have run into people who just will not do any PVP.

It looks like to me everyone will or should be able to have some self heal next patch which means that the healer outside of trials will be more time doing DPS then healing since their will not be a spammable hots like orbs and springs.

It is going to be a big change for some because we all have pugged before and run into that one person with no self heals and they either die or suck all the healers time and resource's to keep them alive and generally their DPS does not justify the special attention.

Orbs I believe will be the biggest thing healers will have to adapt to.

TheNightflame · July 2019

you've basically said the issue without akbowledging it, the healer role practically will not exist any more (it'll exist but be far far from what it ised to be and what healing in eso is)

Ozby · July 2019

TheNightflame wrote: »

you've basically said the issue without akbowledging it, the healer role practically will not exist any more (it'll exist but be far far from what it ised to be and what healing in eso is)

I agree

Aznarb · July 2019

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Link or BS..
I don't have seen any video or stream doing vet-trial in PTS.
Every single good player I was asking was saying they probably don't gonna run it cuz not enough ppl to do it.

BalticBlues · July 2019

Daus wrote: »

Guess you'll just have to get better eh? Oh the horror....

Your incompetent comments lacking any argument always mark the lowest level in each thread...

Nothing is "getting better". Instead, the "only one" change to orbs and healing springs is making Trials impossible to heal for healers. The Trial healer was the LAST ROLE where healers could shine - now healer gameplay is replaced by Vigor spam.

ESO is going downhill for a while now, and with absurd changes like these,
I do not have confidence anymore that the devs even understand what they are doing.

labambao · July 2019

mobicera wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

so what is "end game"?

coz if it's just doing veteran DLC with PUG, it's currently already a mixed bag, which is good. not too hard, not too easy. making it a bit harder coz they nerf healing, doesn't sound very bad at all. normal trial is not hard. at all. vet trial may need a coordinated group, but can be pug-able.

i dont think it'll kill "75% of the player base" or anything.

if it's vet Trial hard-mode top 10 leaderboard, then *** yeah, it's reserved only for the top 5% to begin with, making their life harder, they should be jumping for joy instead of crying "MOAR CONTENTTTHHH PLEEZ"

PTS is fine.

healing is also fine.

self heal is crazy OP. (my stamDK's vigor is 27k/5 sec when i got major/minor brut, and Rally is about 19k after 20 sec)

People know that the top leaderboard scores are only for the top 1%
But I am progressing through hard modes right now and I am just an average player playing with many other average gamers
What do you really think will happen when people like me the large average player base can't even get the first boss down in a trial let alone continue their progression in hard modes?
The answer many will simply quit...
Do you really think the average larger player base actually wants to lose all their progression because the top %1 can clear in 13 mins?
The changes to healing is not fine
The pts is not fine
Balancing a game around the tiny %1 will not help keep it going...

Just get 4 healers and do mechanics. Stop play nobrain dps skips.
Done.

Strider__Roshin · July 2019

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

I have seen 1 video of one of the top guilds clearing dlc trials on pts.
The healers were unable to keep up and Stam dps had to cycle vigor.
Yes the changes are as bad as they seem.
They are killing off the average gamers progressions.

Guess you'll just have to get better eh? Oh the horror....

It isn't just a matter of getting better, there is a reason every single player is not as good as the top players. Brain, reaction time, capability they vary depending on the person and those things are in a high percentage for a very few individuals meaning the lack of understanding game mechanics how they work and how their own class works as well as the effectiveness of support roles doing so is problematic.

Not only that a lot of people play for fun, if you kill that fun then well... yeah the moment you turn playing into a chore for so many people....

If you want to kill endgame for 75% of the player base then this is how to do it.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses. I've helped plenty of people that perceived themselves as trash to become top tier.

The issue is that most PvEers are casuals that want everything to be watered down and handed to them rather than having content be challenging and actually overcome tough obstacles.

Strider__Roshin · July 2019

BalticBlues wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Guess you'll just have to get better eh? Oh the horror....

Your incompetent comments lacking any argument always mark the lowest level in each thread...

Nothing is "getting better". Instead, the "only one" change to orbs and healing springs is making Trials impossible to heal for healers. The Trial healer was the LAST ROLE where healers could shine - now healer gameplay is replaced by Vigor spam.

ESO is going downhill for a while now, and with absurd changes like these,
I do not have confidence anymore that the devs even understand what they are doing.

ESO's PvE died a long time ago when they nerfed the crap out of the game's difficulty then buffed our characters to a ridiculous degree in conjunction with the difficulty nerfs. I actually used to enjoy the PvE back in the day. Now PvE is so laughably easy that I'd rather play a different game entirely than be bothered with it.

Fiewiel · July 2019

What replacement is there for healing springs?
I play a mag Templar and I do not see a big problem replacing energy orb (in fact ESO is, since a long time, a mmorpg where the dps doesnt care about sustain for me), but I do not see a replacement for a ground target aoe which heals an umlimited numer of targets.
Vigor? Combat Prayer spam?

Sanguinor2 · July 2019

Daus wrote: »

ESO's PvE died a long time ago when they nerfed the crap out of the game's difficulty then buffed our characters to a ridiculous degree in conjunction with the difficulty nerfs. I actually used to enjoy the PvE back in the day. Now PvE is so laughably easy that I'd rather play a different game entirely than be bothered with it.

Link godslayer plox, pve too easy.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2019

Fiewiel wrote: »

What replacement is there for healing springs?
I play a mag Templar and I do not see a big problem replacing energy orb (in fact ESO is, since a long time, a mmorpg where the dps doesnt care about sustain for me), but I do not see a replacement for a ground target aoe which heals an umlimited numer of targets.
Vigor? Combat Prayer spam?

springs never healed "umlimited numer" of targets, it was only 6 per tick.