Can people stop trying to take 2 tanks into 1 tank trials?

msalvia · July 2019

There are already too few tanks to go around, and it makes zero sense to bring 2 tanks for AA, HRC AS+0,--norm or vet, these are 1 tank trials. nSS is also a 1 tank trial. Not only is a second tank useless in these, it actually HURTS the group---less dps, and a chance that the offtank steals taunt and causes major problems / wipes. So if you're a trial recruiter and you want to improve your group--both the overall composition of the group and the quality of players who will join--stop asking for 2 tanks in 1 tank trials. Asking for 2 tanks makes it look like you don't know what you're doing, and experienced players (esp experience tanks) aren't gonna want to join.

NOTE: I know that training in norm trials and pretending it's vet is a thing, but when the vet version is a 1 tank trial this makes zero sense.

mobicera · July 2019

I think we need more people to bring in at least 4 tanks to naa...
Yes 4 tanks sounds perfect each one fights for taunt on axes...
Or maybe we could do a 12 tank NCR I mean who doesn't have 4 h to complete a 10m trial...

paulsimonps · July 2019

mobicera wrote: »

I think we need more people to bring in at least 4 tanks to naa...
Yes 4 tanks sounds perfect each one fights for taunt on axes...
Or maybe we could do a 12 tank NCR I mean who doesn't have 4 h to complete a 10m trial...

Man now you made me remember when my guild brought in 12 DKs to HRC HM before it was vHRC HM and we dropped 12 Standards on the Warrior and the gargoyles.... The lag was legendary. Or how it used to take 8seconds for a well formed group to kill the storm atro in AA... ah good times.

I will say this though, only reason I would ever bring 2 tanks to AA or HRC is if you are doing Veteran HM.

Aznarb · July 2019

If it with pug, I'll pick 2 Tank for nAA Axe.
Yeah it seem overkill right ? It's not, not with PUG.
So many wipe and leave because PUG tank can't tank Axe more than few minute.
So, no, never again. If I've to do it again it will be with guild or with 2 Tank if PUG.

But otherwise I totally agree with you.

msalvia · July 2019

Aznarb wrote: »

If it with pug, I'll pick 2 Tank for nAA Axe.
Yeah it seem overkill right ? It's not, not with PUG.
So many wipe and leave because PUG tank can't tank Axe more than few minute.
So, no, never again. If I've to do it again it will be with guild or with 2 Tank if PUG.

But otherwise I totally agree with you.

Fair enough...pugging vets is a crapshoot, and I can see taking 2 if you don't trust the main tank. And HMs are a different story completely.

Noldornir · July 2019

Aznarb wrote: »

If it with pug, I'll pick 2 Tank for nAA Axe.
Yeah it seem overkill right ? It's not, not with PUG.
So many wipe and leave because PUG tank can't tank Axe more than few minute.
So, no, never again. If I've to do it again it will be with guild or with 2 Tank if PUG.

But otherwise I totally agree with you.

I do think this is very wrong in the long-term;

1) As a tank i would not even join you if I see you are pugging 2 tanks for nAA/vAA (non-HM) so you'll only get crap tanks that does not know what they are about to do

2) If the tank can't keep the axes for more than a few mins it's because his build is faulty. You don't have much to do in there beside blocking. The "hardest" part is getting the axes when they spawn (little hitbox with no tab-targetting as a console player). If you help him by giving a second tank he won't realize his build is crap. If you feel your tank is in need of help ask the healer to send more shards/orbs on him instead (with 1 every 30 secs and potions inbetween that should not happen).

3) As a tank when it comes to sustain the POWER of what's hitting you is irrelevant (unless they can kill very fast); only the number of enemies is.

msalvia · July 2019

Noldornir wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

If it with pug, I'll pick 2 Tank for nAA Axe.
Yeah it seem overkill right ? It's not, not with PUG.
So many wipe and leave because PUG tank can't tank Axe more than few minute.
So, no, never again. If I've to do it again it will be with guild or with 2 Tank if PUG.

But otherwise I totally agree with you.

I do think this is very wrong in the long-term;

1) As a tank i would not even join you if I see you are pugging 2 tanks for nAA/vAA (non-HM) so you'll only get crap tanks that does not know what they are about to do

2) If the tank can't keep the axes for more than a few mins it's because his build is faulty. You don't have much to do in there beside blocking. The "hardest" part is getting the axes when they spawn (little hitbox with no tab-targetting as a console player). If you help him by giving a second tank he won't realize his build is crap. If you feel your tank is in need of help ask the healer to send more shards/orbs on him instead (with 1 every 30 secs and potions inbetween that should not happen).

3) As a tank when it comes to sustain the POWER of what's hitting you is irrelevant (unless they can kill very fast); only the number of enemies is.

Well said. I never would have figured out how to tank if I didn't drag a trial team...we learn by failure. There needs to be the expectation that the tank learns the skill set, not just wipe and let a second (hopefully better) tank carry the day.

Noldornir · July 2019

msalvia wrote: »

Well said. I never would have figured out how to tank if I didn't drag a trial team...we learn by failure. There needs to be the expectation that the tank learns the skill set, not just wipe and let a second (hopefully better) tank carry the day.

For some reason it's expected that the tank already knows.

This is a community issue that we also can see in many circumstances.

I clearly remember my first trial tanking (a normal one) with little CP. I've accepted a request by stating=

I'm tank but NEVER BEEN THERE OR IN ANOTHER TRIAL

reply= oh nm don't u worry!

1st Boss= WTF - The tank does not know what to do.

OC i didn't, i even stated that clearly and beforehand, no-one bothered telling mechs to me back then tho.

We need to change the WAY we pug all roles i believe or we're not helping the other getting better players (which would mean better pugs in the future).

In that run I could indeed have done better if just told wt to do. Many times i pug an unaware player, but if/when I realize it I just explain mechs ONLY WHEN SAID PLAYER IS IGNORING INSTRUCTIONS i do kick.

The only thing I do not agree with OP is vHRC, if you wanna clean it (in a pug) you'll 70% need a tank in right side as well. It easy witouth one only if all 6 players involved ACTUALLY bash Kay. If you have pugs you'll probably want a tank packing Kay and adds. Beside that you don't rly need a 2nd tank (non HM). On last boss it's easy for MT to taunt the (2) melee adds and they die quick. As for the 2 ranged DDs can handle them (if bashed).

But if you're pugging and don't know what tank n healers you are getting you could want a second one to get aggro if MT dies killed by 1-thousand cuts

Edit: messed up with quotes

ChunkyCat · July 2019

lulwut

Make your own tank? Maybe stop worrying about what other people do in an instance when you’re not even around?