Logical Argument AGAINST a Global Auction House
Saucy_Jack
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We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In theory, that shouldn't be an issue. The counter argument is that many other games can handle that sort of load with no issue at all. However, this game is intensely "special" in that simple things tend to be very intensive (looking directly at the mail system). I do agree that this game couldn't handle that sort of load even if it should be a very simple thing to do.7 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There argument that "ZOS had rubbish coding and rubbish server architecture therefore we shouldn't ask for improvements" is such a specious argument I feel guilty for wasting this much effort on it.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.18 -
MilwaukeeScott✭✭✭✭✭I PLAY ON PS4 NA-We have no addons
It would be to easy for large groups to greatly influence the market.PS4NA
All I see is hate and rage from people who don't understand how to.....2 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds more like resignation than logic, OP. We've got lots of lag, so we should never have any QOL upgrades. We've got tons of lag, so ZOS should never add new skill lines or zones.
It's a cop-out, pure and simple. If this is the best argument pro-current system people can come up with, then you really don't have a leg to stand on.16 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
It's called paging. It allows the database to search for a particular query, but only receive X amount of items at a time. So your performance argument is moot.9 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
oh lookie!! A Rational Thought. I wonder how that got in here?2 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
Yes because somehow we shouldnt ask for improvements to the game because other aspects of it is broken or not functioning properly.
Much logic, so sound.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax7 -
LuxLunae✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »I PLAY ON PS4 NA-We have no addons
It would be to easy for large groups to greatly influence the market.
Question ...how are the prices on the consoles... just wondering...I play PC...I forget that console players are on the forums... it's so stupid of the stuff that I say... now I have to make sure to always put PC in the title lol.
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
Considering games nearly two decades old had global auction houses it shouldn't really be causing lag. Uploading simple item lists should take up like 0.000000001 resources.
In any case - if it is giving the hamster problems they could simply create a different zone exclusively for the global market kiosk so people could access it there without causing additional lag.10 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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If you compare to WOW it has hundreds of servers trade is only within the server and also only inside alliance or horderedspecter23 wrote: »In theory, that shouldn't be an issue. The counter argument is that many other games can handle that sort of load with no issue at all. However, this game is intensely "special" in that simple things tend to be very intensive (looking directly at the mail system). I do agree that this game couldn't handle that sort of load even if it should be a very simple thing to do.
so far less items for sale, low pop servers probably less than some active trading guilds.
Not sure how much issue load would be anyway, a bit higher but all items for sale already is in one database.
Then you search for all you only search within guild and only return the first items anyway.
Yes an global search for purple mother sorrow rings its an bit harder than first limiting on trader but not much.
You have two other problem who would be way larger with an central trader for all.
Say you want to sell an dark brotherhood chest motif.
You search for it and list your item as 2700 as lowest price is 2800 and you need to move it as you only have 30-50 slots.
Next one list his for 2600 repeat....
Prices for rather common items is likely to go down a lot as people will underbid each other. With the current system you look at one trader, motif cost 3900, second don't have it 3rd sell it for 2700 so you buy it, not knowing that another trader in another town had it for 1500.
In short it would be very nice for buyers, not for seller.
Exception is rare items, them its worth hanging on to as your profit is very high.
So here prices probably will go up.
You also have the issue that some can manipulate the marked. Lets corner the marked for an ingredient or perhaps purple temper. It has been done in ESO to but much harder as you have to control loads of traders.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
It's a simple db query. It's 2019. Even if a million players listed 100 items at once that's not an especially large db.
You do the maths.7 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
Yes because somehow we shouldnt ask for improvements to the game because other aspects of it is broken or not functioning properly.
Much logic, so sound.
For this particular matter, whether it's an improvement or not is an opinion. And I'd rather have the devs make a game that still function properly with lag than just saying their game functions perfectly in optimal conditions and dismiss the issues caused by lag.
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Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
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OKSaucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
It's a simple db query. It's 2019. Even if a million players listed 100 items at once that's not an especially large db.
You do the maths.
2.64 Million potential variations of overland dropset armour alone.
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Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭personally i don't think a global AH is a good idea until they seriously overhaul the current system we have. it is way too difficult to navigate or find something we need right now because the system is so slow looking things up, or fails to do so at all, requiring you to try multiple times.2 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People don't measure consequences in the name of a supposed "QoL".Edited by redlink1979 on July 16, 2019 9:29AM"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
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srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
I don't have lag issues and you don't know that it would actually cause additional lag. It might even reduce lag because Zos would be removing a lot of extra underlying systems and people would be able to get rid of a bunch of the addons they currently use to turn the Guild Traders into their personal GAH.
Had it really not occurred to you that all the addons might be putting the extra strain on people's systems and causing the lag?4 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
There are multiple arguments against a global AH. This has to be the worst one. It would be dead simple to segregate an AH database from anything else in the game. It's something that is only ever accessed when a player actively goes to the guild trader or whatever would replace them, or possibly when a sale notification needs to be sent. It would make sense to make it a separate, fast database. It would actually probably improve performance over the current one, because the terrible interface we have now requires multiple broad searches that could easily be replaced with fewer, narrower ones (e.g. text search for a specific item instead of looking through multiple pages of a broad category).1 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »I PLAY ON PS4 NA-We have no addons
It would be to easy for large groups to greatly influence the market.
Since there are no restrictions to re-listing items bought in guild traders, that is already trivial, though it requires more time than with a global AH. That argument doesn't hold water until some sort of limitation is put in, but then it could be put in whether we have a global AH or guild traders.0 -
nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
You are under the mistaken assumption that a server is one node. Things like an Auction house would not be run on the same node as cyrodill or world zones. There is no performance impact for adding things like an auction house. The thing you might assume is "lag" is the delay in hitting enter and getting a result. That's just normal delay when searching a database.
The reasons "against" an AH are more economic health. In ESO the "broken market" prohibits any one group from price-fixing as it is impossible to control all supply. This means inflation in ESO actually stays pretty stagnant. To see an example of "runaway inflation" in a game look at WOW or EVE... Both games have goods that started at a magnitude lower than they are today or more.1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I believe a global AH would create a whole lot less lag tbh compared to the current system using so many resources on so many individual trade posts rather than just 1 global one.4 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »There is a reason why the Diablo 3 auction house was a MASSIVE failure
Except it wasn't.
The in-game AH was just fine.
It was when it was coupled with a Buy For Real Money system that the problems started.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.5 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »We've already seen numerous thread talking about the lag, and how it's an issue in both PVE and PVP.
So to the people that want a GAH: are you seriously saying that, on top of whatever's causing the *current* lag, you ALSO want something that loads up ALL listed items, from EVERY player, WITH the items' associated graphics, for EVERY player checking the shop? Even without mods it takes a second for the guild trader search to load up listings for just one guild. Why would you want to vastly increase the lag?
That's not how AHs are written by developers who know what they're doing .. go try other MMOs to see how it's done.
Best example is GW2, one AH for ALL worlds in ALL regions: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_PostEdited by KerinKor on July 16, 2019 12:33PM2 -
Speyde✭✭✭I think you can say it with one word: "Economy", Guild trader cost gold, without that, big trading Guild would inflate way more the gold value.Edited by Speyde on July 16, 2019 12:41PMKhajiits an die Macht... wir sind Flauschig !0 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
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You are of course correct.
Problem is ZOS has, through the store, monetised all the other traditional gold sinks that MMORPGs usually rely on to prevent hyperinflation.
They aren't going to give any of that real-world revenue-stream up to fix a virtual economy that they have repeatedly shown they don't care is broken.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.0
