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Evasion (base morph of Shuffle) - 5.1.0 - Major Expedition Too Much
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JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭i don't like this patchnote because can see very many changes are not system ones.
Especially shuffle, rally, total dark, bleeds, unstoppable...
I can't trust devs when see such things. from some distance here no system, just imitation.
I feel they don't have adequate global image-model of eso combat.Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 15, 2019 7:13PMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Major expedition with evasion was made to make templar with jabs/puncture useless when facing a night nightblade that uses cloak.
Another brilliant idea from Gillam trying to be better Stamblade in pvp by buffing what he needs and nerfing other classes.
Zenimax still don't understand why it's bad to let their employees play ESO. Abusive power use which will bring ruin to the company fir sure.
Till then enjoy your power, but remember that nothing last forever. You'll be back to the hole you were in.
Very wrong logic.
if Zenimax employees will not play eso, they will do even worse changes than we have now.
I didn't heard any time that someone of employees abused something in eso.
And, u should think about this from devs perspective - can u imagine to be seriosly engaged into the game after u touched the process of its creation from inside? I personally can't.
Artists, musicians etc create arts, music and another entertainment things for others, not for themselves. U should think about that.
What stop them from turning OP their toon in pvp? Nothing.
They can add hidden buffs, turn invincible so their health don't go under some threshold.
They can be better cheaters and no one will ever find out.Edited by Delparis on July 15, 2019 8:13PM0 -
Yiko✭✭✭✭✭
The main focus of the topic is the passive Major Expedition mechanic. However, I think it was more than fair to mention when evaluating Shuffle that conceptually Major Evasion doesn't work well on Momentum and morphs. Anyways, that's beside the point.It’s simple really, after further testing, opinions change. I never said forward momentum shouldn’t lose major evasion, but rather that you shouldn’t call for nerfs for two abilities in the same post.
I also stated after dueling a Stam sorc on pts my opinion changed on the Major Expedition, that it should be on cast or changes so that things like hurricane don’t perma-proc it.
Reading into things that aren’t there. I can say now though on the class discussion discord just about every stam small scaler is saying they are going back to heavy as there is no point in running shuffle.
I understand that your opinions changed. I'm glad to see that someone is able to change his opinion when given evidence and/or reasoning. Just saying to lay off the aggressive opinions and personal attacks when your own opinions are so demonstrably subject to change.
Look below.No point running shuffle on medium anymore with FM. Waste of a bar slot.
Passive Major Expedition mechanic still exists. They only removed Major Expedition from the base ability Evasion and the Shuffle morph.alright. end of thread. shuffle got nerfed back.
First page in the thread:Elude with 6 pieces of Medium Armor is going to leave the Major Expedition procced passively by AoE damage taken at 8 seconds of duration. The buff itself lasts for, what, 30s next patch? And Major Expedition will be up basically the entire time, due to it being refreshed. You don't see a problem with that, given how that buff has been made more scarce in the recent past?
Yeah, 7-9 seconds of Major Expedition on AoE effects that aren't DoTs.I retract my previous statement after testing.
Elude.
Lol.
They didn't mention a duration change, so the total time would be 7-9 seconds of Major Expedition, right?Elude duration now 2 secs or 5-7 secs?
This is still an issue.Edited by Yiko on July 15, 2019 8:31PM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
The main focus of the topic is the passive Major Expedition mechanic. However, I think it was more than fair to mention when evaluating Shuffle that conceptually Major Evasion doesn't work well on Momentum and morphs. Anyways, that's beside the point.It’s simple really, after further testing, opinions change. I never said forward momentum shouldn’t lose major evasion, but rather that you shouldn’t call for nerfs for two abilities in the same post.
I also stated after dueling a Stam sorc on pts my opinion changed on the Major Expedition, that it should be on cast or changes so that things like hurricane don’t perma-proc it.
Reading into things that aren’t there. I can say now though on the class discussion discord just about every stam small scaler is saying they are going back to heavy as there is no point in running shuffle.
I understand that your opinions changed. I'm glad to see that someone is able to change his opinion when given evidence and/or reasoning. Just saying to lay off the aggressive opinions and personal attacks when your own opinions are so demonstrably subject to change.
Look below.No point running shuffle on medium anymore with FM. Waste of a bar slot.
Passive Major Expedition mechanic still exists. They only removed Major Expedition from the base ability Evasion and the Shuffle morph.alright. end of thread. shuffle got nerfed back.
First page in the thread:Elude with 6 pieces of Medium Armor is going to leave the Major Expedition procced passively by AoE damage taken at 8 seconds of duration. The buff itself lasts for, what, 30s next patch? And Major Expedition will be up basically the entire time, due to it being refreshed. You don't see a problem with that, given how that buff has been made more scarce in the recent past?
Yeah, 7-9 seconds of Major Expedition on AoE effects that aren't DoTs.I retract my previous statement after testing.
Elude.
Lol.
They didn't mention a duration change, so the total time would be 7-9 seconds of Major Expedition, right?Elude duration now 2 secs or 5-7 secs?
This is still an issue.
After testing it’s MUCHHHHHH worse then just that.0 -
Yiko✭✭✭✭✭After testing it’s MUCHHHHHH worse then just that.
It's basically giving Forward Momentum users permanent Major Expedition for 30s, right?
Also: I wonder exactly what constitutes an AoE DoT. I assume things like Caltrops and Wall of Elements. However, someone mentioned that Hurricane counted as Direct damage, so that could be a problem still. (EDIT: Friend tested and confirmed that Hurricane is STILL proccing Major Expedition, lol.)
I also need to test if Jabs or the first tick of Jabs counts as direct damage.
Lastly, I'm wondering about a few 5 piece sets and Monster sets.
Not sure why they'd remove the passive Major Expedition on Shuffle but kept it for 7-9 seconds on Elude. I wouldn't have predicted that.Edited by Yiko on July 16, 2019 5:54AM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭After testing it’s MUCHHHHHH worse then just that.
It's basically giving Forward Momentum users permanent Major Expedition for 30s, right?
Also: I wonder exactly what constitutes an AoE DoT. I assume things like Caltrops and Wall of Elements. However, someone mentioned that Hurricane counted as Direct damage, so that could be a problem still. I also need to test if Jabs or the first tick of Jabs counts as direct damage. Lastly, I'm wondering about a few 5 piece sets and Monster sets.
Not sure why they'd remove the passive Major Expedition on Shuffle but kept it for 7-9 seconds on Elude. I never would have predicted that.
It’s much, much worse then the abilities listed. I don’t want to say how, because I don’t want to duel for an entire week of people flying around. Just know permanent major expedition.
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JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭JusticeSouldier wrote: »Major expedition with evasion was made to make templar with jabs/puncture useless when facing a night nightblade that uses cloak.
Another brilliant idea from Gillam trying to be better Stamblade in pvp by buffing what he needs and nerfing other classes.
Zenimax still don't understand why it's bad to let their employees play ESO. Abusive power use which will bring ruin to the company fir sure.
Till then enjoy your power, but remember that nothing last forever. You'll be back to the hole you were in.
Very wrong logic.
if Zenimax employees will not play eso, they will do even worse changes than we have now.
I didn't heard any time that someone of employees abused something in eso.
And, u should think about this from devs perspective - can u imagine to be seriosly engaged into the game after u touched the process of its creation from inside? I personally can't.
Artists, musicians etc create arts, music and another entertainment things for others, not for themselves. U should think about that.
What stop them from turning OP their toon in pvp? Nothing.
They can add hidden buffs, turn invincible so their health don't go under some threshold.
They can be better cheaters and no one will ever find out.
Man, it's ridiculous.
I don't like to be like devil's advocacy, but this thing u have a theory is far behind the cross line of what can happend.
I'm pretty sure Bethesda team can't to do this because of the whole Elder Scroll's many years story line.all classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭I dont think its a bad compromise, Shuffle gives snare immunity and elude give major expedition, too good buffs split between choices. If you want to run forward and elude an stack health recovery then thats fine but be aware if you want to run rally and shuffle you can still have 80-100% uptime on major expedition if you want, theres Quick Cloak and Hasty retreat yada yada. People are starting to act like Major Expedition is this rare buff. There are places to get it for every build mag or stam and some are better than others, it all just depends on your build!0
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Yiko✭✭✭✭✭It’s much, much worse then the abilities listed. I don’t want to say how, because I don’t want to duel for an entire week of people flying around. Just know permanent major expedition.
Yeah, a friend on PTS already confirmed that abilities like Hurricane and sets like Overwhelming Surge are currently proccing Major Expedition on the newest iteration of Elude.
Jabs does NOT proc it.
I'm wondering about Quick Cloak.
That said, apparently Elude is bugged on the PTS, and the Major Expedition is being procced by more AOE than intended.
Despite the intended AoE DoT changes, landing core class abilities like Shalks, Fiery Breath, and Blastbones will provide Major Expedition for 7-9s. Players using these abilities with their intended design will result in extremely high uptime on passive Major Expedition for Elude users, much like Hurricane was doing. This, coupled with Forward Momentum, is almost the same exact problem that Shuffle had its Major Expedition removed for.
Edited by Yiko on July 16, 2019 2:54AM0 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭It’s much, much worse then the abilities listed. I don’t want to say how, because I don’t want to duel for an entire week of people flying around. Just know permanent major expedition.
Yeah, a friend on PTS already confirmed that abilities like Hurricane and sets like Overwhelming Surge are currently proccing Major Expedition on the newest iteration of Elude.
Jabs does NOT proc it.
I'm wondering about Quick Cloak.
That said, apparently Elude is bugged on the PTS, and the Major Expedition is being procced by more AOE than intended.
Despite the intended AoE DoT changes, landing core class abilities like Shalks, Fiery Breath, and Blastbones will provide Major Expedition for 7-9s. Players using these abilities with their intended design will result in extremely high uptime on passive Major Expedition for Elude users, much like Hurricane was doing. This, coupled with Forward Momentum, is the same exact problem that Shuffle had its Major Expedition removed for.
Two abilities for two buff doesnt sound unbalanced to me an ill never give up the heal rally has. Only people who may tun this proped setup are medium health recovery builds which wont be much of a threat tbf0 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭Or you could fight me with rally and shuffle an ill still have 80% uptime on major expedition. Complaining for the sake of complaining me thinks0
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JusticeSouldier✭✭✭✭After testing it’s MUCHHHHHH worse then just that.
It's basically giving Forward Momentum users permanent Major Expedition for 30s, right?
Also: I wonder exactly what constitutes an AoE DoT. I assume things like Caltrops and Wall of Elements. However, someone mentioned that Hurricane counted as Direct damage, so that could be a problem still. (EDIT: Friend tested and confirmed that Hurricane is STILL proccing Major Expedition, lol.)
I also need to test if Jabs or the first tick of Jabs counts as direct damage.
Lastly, I'm wondering about a few 5 piece sets and Monster sets.
Not sure why they'd remove the passive Major Expedition on Shuffle but kept it for 7-9 seconds on Elude. I never would have predicted that.
Directs damage portion from Jabs is templar's passive which is not aoe thing. if to say about HUrricane, guess this thing going to be fixed (hope).
Actually new way, where expedition only on Elude is better but...
With it's duration and Cost - hell we got idiotic manupulation into faces.
They empowered this skill both morfs and buffed Skill, which already was Must Have to Big Must Have.
It's 100% longer duration, -12% skill cost...Is this accuracy???
Ugly looking skill btw, conflicting with another buffs in game.
Making your character looking same as nightblade in Shadowy Discquise.
Proof - I wrote it not so long time ago here:JusticeSouldier wrote: »@ZOS_BrianWheeler , @ZOS_Gilliam here screens to show how interact between themselves:
Shuffle and Hurricane/Dragon Blood/ Cloak.
Shuffle become at PTS even more must to use. Make it please to be drawn relevant.
And it doesn't fit to it's function anymore for a years - AOE mitigation is not Invisibility.
Even when it was providing Dodge chance, this transparency was too intensive.
As we see, these skills together are visual garbage.
I personally hate how characters look with all these skills active even not together...
Edited by JusticeSouldier on July 16, 2019 2:49AMall classes. pc platform, dissapointed.0