wheem_ESO wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

You are mistaken, the reason why I don't use pirate skeleton on my stamina sorcerer is because in no cp PvP stamsorc has really bad healing and pirate skeleton would just be a hindrance since i dont use lingering pots. So in essence I dont use pirate skeleton because it just doesn't fit the way I play my character and the builds that put together. I have played with and the difference in the past was not that big because I could move around faster due to that time's meta. The way stamina sorcerer is now (especially in no cp) not running streak is basically suicide.

PS: There are plenty of good players who don't use brp resto staff in no cp and they can handle themselves just fine.

I think you're missing my point.

Playing your Stamina Sorcerer without Streak, and with far less dodge rolling and sprinting would give you an approximation of what the mobility is like on many Magicka builds (not counting Sorcerer, obviously). Under those circumstances, you're frequently forced to tank damage - and lots of it. But 5.1.1 has significantly impacted immobile Magicka builds' ability to do just that: there's now a significant reduction in resistances from Protective, and Pirate Skeleton was nerfed into irrelevancy.

You need to have some appreciation for what the survivability is like on a class like Magicka Necromancer, which has the worst sustain in the game, and is tied for worst mobility with a few other magicka setups. Take away their ability to tank damage and you have an inaccurate (thanks to Blastbones being dumb) glass cannon that can't escape or sustain very well.

Edit: Or you build to be a bit less glass-like with a 5 piece defensive set, but have to choose between either having have 0 sustain (and thus, still terrible survivability) or 0 damage. And having no damage also indirectly means you have poor survivability, since opponents can just dump damage into you without ever being pressured.

Then how long will it be before people demand that those 5 piece defensive sets get nerfed? I've already seen rumblings of it with multiple different claims within the last couple hours of Fortified Brass "overperforming." It seems like some people will never be happy unless their burst combo is a 100% guaranteed kill on pretty much any target they choose.

You're right but I think that in essence if all magicka chars apart from sorc (and some stamina) depend on pirate skeleton to be effective then that's a class problem and just reveals how overpowered pirate skeleton is. I'm not against magickas and I'm all for class balance but pirate skeleton was just crutch set for whoever used it. Also right now many stamina characters don't have mobility. Sure next patch they will have if they choose to go with bow as one of their weapons but magickas are free to use race against time. Also next patch magicka players get really good healing with rapid regen and healing ward was just buffed

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

You are mistaken, the reason why I don't use pirate skeleton on my stamina sorcerer is because in no cp PvP stamsorc has really bad healing and pirate skeleton would just be a hindrance since i dont use lingering pots. So in essence I dont use pirate skeleton because it just doesn't fit the way I play my character and the builds that put together. I have played with and the difference in the past was not that big because I could move around faster due to that time's meta. The way stamina sorcerer is now (especially in no cp) not running streak is basically suicide.

PS: There are plenty of good players who don't use brp resto staff in no cp and they can handle themselves just fine.

I think you're missing my point.

Playing your Stamina Sorcerer without Streak, and with far less dodge rolling and sprinting would give you an approximation of what the mobility is like on many Magicka builds (not counting Sorcerer, obviously). Under those circumstances, you're frequently forced to tank damage - and lots of it. But 5.1.1 has significantly impacted immobile Magicka builds' ability to do just that: there's now a significant reduction in resistances from Protective, and Pirate Skeleton was nerfed into irrelevancy.

You need to have some appreciation for what the survivability is like on a class like Magicka Necromancer, which has the worst sustain in the game, and is tied for worst mobility with a few other magicka setups. Take away their ability to tank damage and you have an inaccurate (thanks to Blastbones being dumb) glass cannon that can't escape or sustain very well.

Edit: Or you build to be a bit less glass-like with a 5 piece defensive set, but have to choose between either having have 0 sustain (and thus, still terrible survivability) or 0 damage. And having no damage also indirectly means you have poor survivability, since opponents can just dump damage into you without ever being pressured.

Then how long will it be before people demand that those 5 piece defensive sets get nerfed? I've already seen rumblings of it with multiple different claims within the last couple hours of Fortified Brass "overperforming." It seems like some people will never be happy unless their burst combo is a 100% guaranteed kill on pretty much any target they choose.

Regen stats are much more efficient than damage and defense. It's easier to build for regen with enchants and mundus. Of course, you can easily stack all into one "tree" (damage, defense, sustain), but one wouldn't be efficient that way.

PS was too strong before, this is a fact. This nerf may be heavy handed, however.

BlackMadara wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

You are mistaken, the reason why I don't use pirate skeleton on my stamina sorcerer is because in no cp PvP stamsorc has really bad healing and pirate skeleton would just be a hindrance since i dont use lingering pots. So in essence I dont use pirate skeleton because it just doesn't fit the way I play my character and the builds that put together. I have played with and the difference in the past was not that big because I could move around faster due to that time's meta. The way stamina sorcerer is now (especially in no cp) not running streak is basically suicide.

PS: There are plenty of good players who don't use brp resto staff in no cp and they can handle themselves just fine.

I think you're missing my point.

Playing your Stamina Sorcerer without Streak, and with far less dodge rolling and sprinting would give you an approximation of what the mobility is like on many Magicka builds (not counting Sorcerer, obviously). Under those circumstances, you're frequently forced to tank damage - and lots of it. But 5.1.1 has significantly impacted immobile Magicka builds' ability to do just that: there's now a significant reduction in resistances from Protective, and Pirate Skeleton was nerfed into irrelevancy.

You need to have some appreciation for what the survivability is like on a class like Magicka Necromancer, which has the worst sustain in the game, and is tied for worst mobility with a few other magicka setups. Take away their ability to tank damage and you have an inaccurate (thanks to Blastbones being dumb) glass cannon that can't escape or sustain very well.

Edit: Or you build to be a bit less glass-like with a 5 piece defensive set, but have to choose between either having have 0 sustain (and thus, still terrible survivability) or 0 damage. And having no damage also indirectly means you have poor survivability, since opponents can just dump damage into you without ever being pressured.

Then how long will it be before people demand that those 5 piece defensive sets get nerfed? I've already seen rumblings of it with multiple different claims within the last couple hours of Fortified Brass "overperforming." It seems like some people will never be happy unless their burst combo is a 100% guaranteed kill on pretty much any target they choose.

Regen stats are much more efficient than damage and defense. It's easier to build for regen with enchants and mundus. Of course, you can easily stack all into one "tree" (damage, defense, sustain), but one wouldn't be efficient that way.

PS was too strong before, this is a fact. This nerf may be heavy handed, however.

I can play Magicka Necromancer, Magicka Warden, and Magicka Templar with essentially the same regen stats, and my Necromancer will struggle far more than the others. Stacking extra sustain via enchants (I already use Atronach Mundus) can help, but it comes with a significant cost to both damage and healing-per-GCD. And it's also susceptible to being negated entirely by Mist Form or Blocking with an Ice Staff - something that isn't the case with a Templar's Rune, Warden's Netch, etc...

They need to either find a way for Mystic Siphon to not be terrible in PvP, or implement some other way for Magicka Necromancers to get some decent sustain. While playing in the low MMR BGs, or "potato mashing" in Cyrodiil, the sustain issues aren't that big of a deal, since no one will be pressuring you enough for it to really make much difference. But as soon as you start going up against players that are actually good, Magicka Necromancer gets exposed for the dumpster fire that it is, and a lot of that comes down to the sustain being really bad. And this is with the pre-nerf version of Pirate Skeleton, by the way; the class is flat out terrible, OP set or not. Heavy handed nerfs to your primary way of staying alive just make things even worse.

If I could actually get into any BGs on PTS I might be able to confirm that Magicka Necromancer offense has gotten a bit better (on paper it has, at least), but that won't matter if any decent Stamina player can just explode you - during an AOE fear, regardless of class - before your DOTs have time to put in work.

Again, I'm not saying that the Pirate Skeleton nerf needs to be 100% reverted and never touched again. But I think it should have either been temporarily left alone while ZOS figures out ways to help out tankability and/or mobility on some classes, or at least given a much smaller nerf until they do the same. Now we're just left with a situation, which may last for 6 months or longer, where the gap between magicka and stamina builds in PvP will be even larger than it was before.