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Shock clench stun? RIP Magden..
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ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭
They were put up last night - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483597/pts-patch-notes-v5-1-0Waffennacht wrote: »So no to accelerated drain then?
I don't know all the notes, essentially just the reactions of people. I'm also no too willing to dig, they'll be posted tomorrow right?
And I guess Accelerated Drain itself is an OK stun, as long as you cancel the channel in most cases. The only problems there are that you'll need to be a Stage 4 Vampire, and the range is even shorter than Flame Clench will be (12m vs 15m). I really think it's time to dial back the drawbacks of Vampirism in PvP, especially since you'll no longer keep the Major Expedition when canceling Mist Form.
Being a vampire in PVP right now is generally a very bad idea. Almost every mag build runs flame damage and almost every stam build runs dawnbreaker1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's interesting that they took the stun from lighting but not the cc from the other two. I agree this hurts mag wardens along with necros the most as their class tool kits are weak in this department.
I'm curious about the aoe damage. If it's 33% weaker than fire/ice, then lighting is hot garbo now.
Yeah it's just another way that we lose versatility in builds. Now every mag class that wants to run master staff will have to run flame clench only. No one is slotting shock clench just for the mediocre damage. Would have been nice if they had just left the stun on shock clench and took the AOE off kind of like how they took the dot from flame clench but left the knockback stun.0 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »So no to accelerated drain then?
I don't know all the notes, essentially just the reactions of people. I'm also no too willing to dig, they'll be posted tomorrow right?
Why the hell do I have to be a damn vampire just to have a *** cc?4 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »So no to accelerated drain then?
I don't know all the notes, essentially just the reactions of people. I'm also no too willing to dig, they'll be posted tomorrow right?
Why the hell do I have to be a damn vampire just to have a *** cc?
uSe TuRN eViL3 -
khajiitNPC✭✭✭✭✭I’ve always used artic blast, Shock clench definitely better, but I might try out volcanic rune now with its recent changes.0
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Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
No that's not a trade off, if lightning staff losses it's stun that just destroys the balance of the 3 elemental staff types. for necro and warden who don't really have reliable class CC's that not great.
as much as i hate fighting anyone who uses a CC as their main spammable DPS skill and prefer to myself use flame or frost staff. this change is not good.Invictus5 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most clench spammers have never bothered to learn proper MagWarden play anyways, so its a good change. Reducing every class to spammable stun/dmg + delayed burst (2 Button mashing) is about the lowest form of gameplay that I can think of.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
No that's not a trade off, if lightning staff losses it's stun that just destroys the balance of the 3 elemental staff types. for necro and warden who don't really have reliable class CC's that not great.
as much as i hate fighting anyone who uses a CC as their main spammable DPS skill and prefer to myself use flame or frost staff. this change is not good.
k0 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Most clench spammers have never bothered to learn proper MagWarden play anyways, so its a good change. Reducing every class to spammable stun/dmg + delayed burst (2 Button mashing) is about the lowest form of gameplay that I can think of.
There is no proper magwarden playstyle lmao. Arctic blast is a horrible cc and bird spammable is a joke.
And if you say “ice mage magwarden with ice staff and gripping shards” is a proper magwarden... then please leave this thread because that’s some zergling nonsense.4 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Most clench spammers have never bothered to learn proper MagWarden play anyways, so its a good change. Reducing every class to spammable stun/dmg + delayed burst (2 Button mashing) is about the lowest form of gameplay that I can think of.
There is no proper magwarden playstyle lmao. Arctic blast is a horrible cc and bird spammable is a joke.
And if you say “ice mage magwarden with ice staff and gripping shards” is a proper magwarden... then please leave this thread because that’s some zergling nonsense.
Can be good in small group but I’d rather my teammates have kill potential instead of just being an annoyance.0 -
Vortigaunt✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?4 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Most clench spammers have never bothered to learn proper MagWarden play anyways, so its a good change. Reducing every class to spammable stun/dmg + delayed burst (2 Button mashing) is about the lowest form of gameplay that I can think of.
Which 4/5 classes are designed around? Okay1 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭Just want to say that bird spam isn't as bad as some are saying if you build for it and play non cp. Yeah sure the first bird is easy to dodge and maybe the 2nd. But 3rd through 5th are coming in on the global so they are arriving right after each other. Now their rhythm is off for when hit them with artic blast. You don't necessarily lead with your cc unless you need some relief from pressure on yourself. Save it so those last 3 birds and shalks land at the same time. The delay can actually be beneficial if used right and the indirect way they fire can keep enemies from zeroing in on you in chaotic fights.
Is it as good as the standard master staff clench spam? Maybe not but honestly the shield nerf is going to be harder to over come I think.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Vortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
k0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Vortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
k
What classes have you mained recently?0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Vortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
k
What classes have you mained recently?
i have 2 of each class, 8 dps, 3 tanks and 2 healers. i don't "main" anything because that is a silly concept to limit yourself so much.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Vortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
k
What classes have you mained recently?
i have 2 of each class, 8 dps, 3 tanks and 2 healers. i don't "main" anything because that is a silly concept to limit yourself so much.
And with all that you don’t see any issue with AOE centric classes getting steadily nerfed?0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Vortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
k
What classes have you mained recently?
i have 2 of each class, 8 dps, 3 tanks and 2 healers. i don't "main" anything because that is a silly concept to limit yourself so much.
And with all that you don’t see any issue with AOE centric classes getting steadily nerfed?
aoe centric? there is no class that is aoe centric intrinsically. it is your build of that class that is.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 10, 2019 4:19PM0 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Most clench spammers have never bothered to learn proper MagWarden play anyways, so its a good change. Reducing every class to spammable stun/dmg + delayed burst (2 Button mashing) is about the lowest form of gameplay that I can think of.
There is no proper magwarden playstyle lmao. Arctic blast is a horrible cc and bird spammable is a joke.
And if you say “ice mage magwarden with ice staff and gripping shards” is a proper magwarden... then please leave this thread because that’s some zergling nonsense.
Can be good in small group but I’d rather my teammates have kill potential instead of just being an annoyance.
It’s a cancer to the game. Builds that are just root spamming immbolilize abuse are literally what’s wrong with eso. Thankfully with the last patch we got root cooldown and more snare immunities. But they’re still an obnoxious playstyle.1 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just want to say that bird spam isn't as bad as some are saying if you build for it and play non cp. Yeah sure the first bird is easy to dodge and maybe the 2nd. But 3rd through 5th are coming in on the global so they are arriving right after each other. Now their rhythm is off for when hit them with artic blast. You don't necessarily lead with your cc unless you need some relief from pressure on yourself. Save it so those last 3 birds and shalks land at the same time. The delay can actually be beneficial if used right and the indirect way they fire can keep enemies from zeroing in on you in chaotic fights.
Is it as good as the standard master staff clench spam? Maybe not but honestly the shield nerf is going to be harder to over come I think.
I’ve fiddled with all the available spammables. Master staff vastly outperforms the others by a massive margin. Elements weapon is the second best but doesn’t perform well in laggy situations, that leaves bird spamming and force pulse.
Bird spamming is way too wonky and almost
Impossible to line up with subterranean assault because of how slow and weird it travels.
Force pulse might be the way to go next patch4 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Vortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
k
What classes have you mained recently?
i have 2 of each class, 8 dps, 3 tanks and 2 healers. i don't "main" anything because that is a silly concept to limit yourself so much.
And with all that you don’t see any issue with AOE centric classes getting steadily nerfed?
aoe centric? there is no class that is aoe centric intrinsically. it is your build of that class that is.
When the delayed burst and the best damage ulti are both AOEs.... they are intrinsically aoe centric. Magden and magnecro both share these same situations. Magplar has a similar situation but with a spammable+ulti.
But k0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Vortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
k
What classes have you mained recently?
i have 2 of each class, 8 dps, 3 tanks and 2 healers. i don't "main" anything because that is a silly concept to limit yourself so much.
And with all that you don’t see any issue with AOE centric classes getting steadily nerfed?
aoe centric? there is no class that is aoe centric intrinsically. it is your build of that class that is.
When the delayed burst and the best damage ulti are both AOEs.... they are intrinsically aoe centric. Magden and magnecro both share these same situations. Magplar has a similar situation but with a spammable+ulti.
But k
k0 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now with the main healinMojomonkeyman wrote: »Most clench spammers have never bothered to learn proper MagWarden play anyways, so its a good change. Reducing every class to spammable stun/dmg + delayed burst (2 Button mashing) is about the lowest form of gameplay that I can think of.
There is no proper magwarden playstyle lmao. Arctic blast is a horrible cc and bird spammable is a joke.
And if you say “ice mage magwarden with ice staff and gripping shards” is a proper magwarden... then please leave this thread because that’s some zergling nonsense.
Can be good in small group but I’d rather my teammates have kill potential instead of just being an annoyance.
It’s a cancer to the game. Builds that are just root spamming immbolilize abuse are literally what’s wrong with eso. Thankfully with the last patch we got root cooldown and more snare immunities. But they’re still an obnoxious playstyle.
There is much more wrong with eso. Specifically the fact that everyone runs around in 24 man zergs and teabags solo players. Having a spammable stun helps deal with that kind of obnoxious junk, and removing one instance while leaving others just makes things even more lopsided1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Most clench spammers have never bothered to learn proper MagWarden play anyways, so its a good change. Reducing every class to spammable stun/dmg + delayed burst (2 Button mashing) is about the lowest form of gameplay that I can think of.
Simplifying your build is a good idea, butVortigaunt wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZarkingFrued wrote: »
use a fire staff and clench?
Only thing I can think of, but counter productive when shalks is AOE and shock buffs aoes while flame buffs direct dmg
oh no, a trade off, how dare you not have everything.
Ignorant comment.
Magden is an aoe class. Aoe ult, aoe burst. You have literally 0 use out of fire staff. How dare any other class in this game that’s pure single target have everything by slotting fire staff?
The discussion doesnt really matter to him, he was just trolling to troll.1 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭Just want to say that bird spam isn't as bad as some are saying if you build for it and play non cp. Yeah sure the first bird is easy to dodge and maybe the 2nd. But 3rd through 5th are coming in on the global so they are arriving right after each other. Now their rhythm is off for when hit them with artic blast. You don't necessarily lead with your cc unless you need some relief from pressure on yourself. Save it so those last 3 birds and shalks land at the same time. The delay can actually be beneficial if used right and the indirect way they fire can keep enemies from zeroing in on you in chaotic fights.
Is it as good as the standard master staff clench spam? Maybe not but honestly the shield nerf is going to be harder to over come I think.
I’ve fiddled with all the available spammables. Master staff vastly outperforms the others by a massive margin. Elements weapon is the second best but doesn’t perform well in laggy situations, that leaves bird spamming and force pulse.
Bird spamming is way too wonky and almost
Impossible to line up with subterranean assault because of how slow and weird it travels.
Force pulse might be the way to go next patch
Did you actually fiddle with your build or just your skill bars? As during murkmire I ran a bird spam build specifically to counter all the snipers back then and it worked very well. Birds hit like a truck using the set up I ran of spinners + war maiden and shadowrend since minor maim is one of the most powerful defensive tools, since it applies first, plus it runs at whatever procced it which was good for finding the pesky snipers. I ran a flame staff as shalks were really only for burst and to pull NB out of cloak and I used my ults more defensively than offensively since I was a glassy build. Outside of that I played smart with positioning and kept as much distance as possible to boost bird damage. All those snipers usually stupidly obliged. Now the game has changed and I can't speak to how it would perform in cp play but in no cp infinite dodge roll or block isn't possible and the bird spam usually wore them down. I've played a few matches on it during the current patch and it isn't bad still. Not quite as good since there aren't as many snipers to get free kills on but some tweeking to deal with the new meta could make it viable again.0 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just want to say that bird spam isn't as bad as some are saying if you build for it and play non cp. Yeah sure the first bird is easy to dodge and maybe the 2nd. But 3rd through 5th are coming in on the global so they are arriving right after each other. Now their rhythm is off for when hit them with artic blast. You don't necessarily lead with your cc unless you need some relief from pressure on yourself. Save it so those last 3 birds and shalks land at the same time. The delay can actually be beneficial if used right and the indirect way they fire can keep enemies from zeroing in on you in chaotic fights.
Is it as good as the standard master staff clench spam? Maybe not but honestly the shield nerf is going to be harder to over come I think.
I’ve fiddled with all the available spammables. Master staff vastly outperforms the others by a massive margin. Elements weapon is the second best but doesn’t perform well in laggy situations, that leaves bird spamming and force pulse.
Bird spamming is way too wonky and almost
Impossible to line up with subterranean assault because of how slow and weird it travels.
Force pulse might be the way to go next patch
Did you actually fiddle with your build or just your skill bars? As during murkmire I ran a bird spam build specifically to counter all the snipers back then and it worked very well. Birds hit like a truck using the set up I ran of spinners + war maiden and shadowrend since minor maim is one of the most powerful defensive tools, since it applies first, plus it runs at whatever procced it which was good for finding the pesky snipers. I ran a flame staff as shalks were really only for burst and to pull NB out of cloak and I used my ults more defensively than offensively since I was a glassy build. Outside of that I played smart with positioning and kept as much distance as possible to boost bird damage. All those snipers usually stupidly obliged. Now the game has changed and I can't speak to how it would perform in cp play but in no cp infinite dodge roll or block isn't possible and the bird spam usually wore them down. I've played a few matches on it during the current patch and it isn't bad still. Not quite as good since there aren't as many snipers to get free kills on but some tweeking to deal with the new meta could make it viable again.
Tried every setup I could think of or find on magden. There are very few that in my opinion are competitive0 -
RedGirl41✭✭✭✭That’s a good change tbh. They should take the cc off of flame reach too. People use it as a spamable which is a joke. Playing maximum range and spamming a knock back/stun1
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭That’s a good change tbh. They should take the cc off of flame reach too. People use it as a spamable which is a joke. Playing maximum range and spamming a knock back/stun
they did, reach is only direct damage and a dot for all 3 types of staffs. here the new tooltips-
this is flame clench with a master staff-
frost clench-
chock clench with a master staff on vs shock ring-
as you can see, now you only have flame clench with a stan and its range is only 15 meters. so no "Playing maximum range and spamming a knock back/stun"0