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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
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What are you doing to this game ZoS???
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valeriiya✭✭✭✭✭
✭StabbityDoom wrote: »
@StabbityDoom it's what @ZOS_RobGarrett said in an interview:
Slowing Down Content Releases and the Great Fix Patch
I spoke with Rob about the fast release of updates and if ZOS had considered doing a “Great Fix Patch” for one of their updates. He said it’s a question they get a lot and whilst it’s not off the table they as a company do need to produce for everyone and a majority of the bugs and issues faced are not ones everyone encounters or are drastically halting gameplay, as such they need to continue creating content for people who want new content to play and and don’t play at the higher level to notice if a skill or mechanic works a little wonky.1 -
StabbityDoom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭but... but... the things I'm seeing about EU, etc, are actually stopping people from playing, period. That's not a "skill being a little wonky"....
8 -
SweepsAllClowns✭✭✭✭He said it’s a question they get a lot and whilst it’s not off the table they as a company do need to produce for everyone and a majority of the bugs and issues faced are not ones everyone encounters or are drastically halting gameplay, as such they need to continue creating content for people who want new content to play and and don’t play at the higher level to notice if a skill or mechanic works a little wonky.
Sadly I believe this is exactly how things are, for example majority don't have their accounts completely stuck like I've had for over 4 months now, it's only halting my playing completely so it's totally fine when most players can still log in. Zenimax has absolutely zero responsibility to fix anything no matter how much time and money a customer has spent on the game. I feel I'm a useless piece of garbage after about 4 years playing, never forget...
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RedGirl41✭✭✭✭Cyrodiil On ps4 NA is so laggy and delayed and terrible right now. I have wired internet and I live alone so it’s not my connection. PLEAZE FOCUS THINGS THAT ARE BROKEN. Simple concept.
Playing mag dk right now and 80% of dragon leaps “miss “ and do 0 damage
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linoge63✭✭✭What we need: A great fix patch.
What Zos has specifically said they're not interest in doing: A great fix patch.
Problems with this game 101
This^^^
I don't get too worked anymore about changes to skills and classes, none of that matters when I'm sitting in a long load screen or keep getting blue screens.
...or playing other games3 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »So, before I even started playing this game (Morrowind), it was already bad, declining and getting way much worse. I must be crazy to be playing it to CP 1155 and those who have greater CP than me must have lost their mind. What a terrible game to be playing. At the rate of how much the player-base is described in the OP, this game should have been dead before I even reached CP 160. However, here we are, still talking about its impending death, venting our disappointments, and just arguing to make the game better.
If this game started declining and dying in 2015, why in the world are we still playing this trash of a game in 2019?
Every MMO I've played has beend dying and declining since their closed beta or even alpha... it's not specific to ESO.StabbityDoom wrote: »I wonder if the people doing the race "balance" are the same people tasked with stability and performance of the game itself. My hunch is no. Someone correct me who knows better please.
They are definitely not the same.0 -
iPeriphery✭✭✭✭AlayneStone wrote: »
I just wish that we could have the communication required from ZoS so we could get all this BS straightened out without having to resort to canceling sub/not playing. I love this game so much, but it can only betray my trust and *** me over so many times before it's just not worth it anymore. And I think a lot of players are getting to that point where they're gonna say *** it and just leave.12 -
Thorvik_Tyrson✭✭✭iPeriphery wrote: »
Pve content is either super easy or extremely difficult chaotic messes.
Yeah I agree. This is probably the biggest problem with the game right now.
Hopefully this new development team will do a better job at finding the right balance between too easy and too frustrating. This upcoming update and the new DLC dungeons will tell the tale. The new CP system they are currently in works on will be a good indicator too. Because if they keep moving in this same direction - where content is either brain dead easy or annoyingly frustrating they are going to start running into problems.
I got news for you, no matter what they decided to do with the New CP System; it will fail. Why? Because CP just creates a gap between new and old players that shouldn't be there. They should instead make a talent system with key stones like League of Legends where you can choose 2 or 3 trees to draw passives from that all have a Keystone which has a specific mechanic to it that you can only choose from 1 per tree, that will benefit your class. CP is inherently flawed and introduces too much of a power creep, where as having a talent tree to pull from is limited but still useful enough to make more diverse builds without gating it behind a boring and pointless grind that many new players wont even play long enough to get to because of the laggy servers and buggy game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober We love your game and are just very disgruntled with the current state, please take the feedback from this thread without offence, but instead treat it as an opportunity to be aware of what will help dig you out of the ditch your game currently is in, so that you can profit greatly in the long run and keep your game alive to profit from for many years. We all love this game and don't want to see it go down the toilet, but that's sadly where it is heading if you don't step up, admit your mistakes, and make a change.
Umm... This new player (Only CP 222) has yet to encounter this epic lag that you are referring to. I suspect that it is all hiding in PVP as I dont PVP. I get random disconnect every now and then, mostly when switching characters.
I'm not saying that the game isnt buggy or filled with issues that existed since Beta (There are other games like that out there) but I have not played the game long enough to encounter them.
Thorvik5 -
iPeriphery✭✭✭✭Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »iPeriphery wrote: »
Pve content is either super easy or extremely difficult chaotic messes.
Yeah I agree. This is probably the biggest problem with the game right now.
Hopefully this new development team will do a better job at finding the right balance between too easy and too frustrating. This upcoming update and the new DLC dungeons will tell the tale. The new CP system they are currently in works on will be a good indicator too. Because if they keep moving in this same direction - where content is either brain dead easy or annoyingly frustrating they are going to start running into problems.
I got news for you, no matter what they decided to do with the New CP System; it will fail. Why? Because CP just creates a gap between new and old players that shouldn't be there. They should instead make a talent system with key stones like League of Legends where you can choose 2 or 3 trees to draw passives from that all have a Keystone which has a specific mechanic to it that you can only choose from 1 per tree, that will benefit your class. CP is inherently flawed and introduces too much of a power creep, where as having a talent tree to pull from is limited but still useful enough to make more diverse builds without gating it behind a boring and pointless grind that many new players wont even play long enough to get to because of the laggy servers and buggy game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober We love your game and are just very disgruntled with the current state, please take the feedback from this thread without offence, but instead treat it as an opportunity to be aware of what will help dig you out of the ditch your game currently is in, so that you can profit greatly in the long run and keep your game alive to profit from for many years. We all love this game and don't want to see it go down the toilet, but that's sadly where it is heading if you don't step up, admit your mistakes, and make a change.
Umm... This new player (Only CP 222) has yet to encounter this epic lag that you are referring to. I suspect that it is all hiding in PVP as I dont PVP. I get random disconnect every now and then, mostly when switching characters.
I'm not saying that the game isnt buggy or filled with issues that existed since Beta (There are other games like that out there) but I have not played the game long enough to encounter them.
Thorvik
If you don't PVP or do Trials you probably wont feel the lag as bad. It deff still happens outside cyrodil in peak hours if the server decides to *** its pants
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Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭"ZOS, What are you doing?"
Stupid, amateur-hour things.
What they should be doing is in line with this.
Particularly this excerpt -
A. Best Practices
At the beginning of concept development, the engineer encounters evolving user preferences, imprecise
specifications of product parameters, varying levels of technology maturity, market and funding uncertainties, and
perhaps evolving regulatory, political and other hard-to-quantify factors.
Often called “the fuzzy front end” of product development, this phase is absolutely critical to embarking on a lean engineering undertaking.
Several key best practices have emerged.
Perhaps the most important element is to focus on understanding the customer and end user value expectations for the product – its features and attributes, quality, price or cost and availability.
No amount of efficient lifecycle engineering or engineering process improvement can make up for a poorly conceived product that a customer does not want.
Difficulties include less-than-fully-defined user value (after all, the product is less than fully defined at the
beginning of product development) and the importance of multiple stakeholders, particularly when end user and
acquirer (stakeholder that puts up development money) may be different. The issue of value definition and creation
in product development was studied by Slack.
A second important element is to keep the “design space” as open as long as possible before making critical decisions to address uncertainty. Toyota uses a technique called set based design in which the design choices for
subsystems and components are made from a set of possible choices ranging from a proven design to ones from
emerging technologies.
The final choice is delayed as long as possible, even into the detail design stage, in order to
have the best information available before a final choice is made.
***
ZOS' consistent history for at least the past two years' worth of ESO development demonstrates two things clearly that are in contradiction of these fundamentally summarized best practice design principles, and it is worth noting that these design principles are industry agnostic; they are designed for industry ubiquity in any industry in which a product is designed and/or fabricated, no matter what that product is.
Firstly, ZOS has shown no meaningful sign of servicing the majority of their customers. The nature of their most consistent changes reflect a pattern of preference for vocal minorities within specific and exclusive subsets of the playerbase, and are never ideal to the most common use cases.
Secondly, ZOS demonstrates a clear pattern of inadequate planning, including a noteworthy incomprehension of their own fundamental systems.
This game is a machine, just as certainly as the engine in your car or the device on which you're reading this. They make it systematically obvious that they do not understand the interoperations of their own mechanical systems through egregious and rapid-fire 'throw things at the wall until they stick' method of patching and re-patching of the same things.
This is not in line with industry standards of tweaking and modifying the mechanics of powers, abilities and classes; fine tuning is not done in double-digit percentage modifications. It's usually not called 'fine tuning' at all when large single integer modifications are being made.
Between these two points, I see no basis for confusion about how we've arrived at our present circumstance.
ZOS does not know what they are doing when it comes to the most mechanical of systems inherent to this machine we call a game. They have no singular design goal when it comes to classes or even single powers and abilities, and this is repeatedly demonstrated through their consistency of inconsistency when it comes to the magnitude and nature of their modifications made to them.
This is not a pattern of behavior that demonstrates confidence or even working knowledge of the mechanics at play.
This is not a pattern of behavior that indicates any plan or goal inherent to a desired outcome.
ZOS is winging it, and that is not, has never been and will never be an acceptable engineering practice in any respected or respectable field or industry.
The biggest reason for the isses you laid out on the table here is that the original team that worked on ESO through Alpha, Beta and the first year are all gone.Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh8 -
Taktak✭✭✭
players was asking for nerf "Shadowy Disguise" skill of nightblade for long time but nothing happened.0 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭They really need to get the ball rolling on performance issues instead of pushing the goal post back7 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »So, before I even started playing this game (Morrowind), it was already bad, declining and getting way much worse. I must be crazy to be playing it to CP 1155 and those who have greater CP than me must have lost their mind. What a terrible game to be playing. At the rate of how much the player-base is described in the OP, this game should have been dead before I even reached CP 160. However, here we are, still talking about its impending death, venting our disappointments, and just arguing to make the game better.
If this game started declining and dying in 2015, why in the world are we still playing this trash of a game in 2019?
Because its not a trash game, despite its many issues, its the best MMO on the market by a country mile?
I mean, just thinking out loud.3 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well it's perhaps time to move on, guys.
No voices are being heard (the rants have gone on for years no avail)7 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Pve content is either super easy or extremely difficult chaotic messes.
Yeah I agree. This is probably the biggest problem with the game right now.
Hopefully this new development team will do a better job at finding the right balance between too easy and too frustrating. This upcoming update and the new DLC dungeons will tell the tale. The new CP system they are currently in works on will be a good indicator too. Because if they keep moving in this same direction - where content is either brain dead easy or annoyingly frustrating they are going to start running into problems.
there is no 'if,' but they're doing a marvelous job of homogenizing classes and taking the fun right out of the game, imho.
4 -
iPeriphery✭✭✭✭
Pve content is either super easy or extremely difficult chaotic messes.
Yeah I agree. This is probably the biggest problem with the game right now.
Hopefully this new development team will do a better job at finding the right balance between too easy and too frustrating. This upcoming update and the new DLC dungeons will tell the tale. The new CP system they are currently in works on will be a good indicator too. Because if they keep moving in this same direction - where content is either brain dead easy or annoyingly frustrating they are going to start running into problems.
there is no 'if,' but they're doing a marvelous job of homogenizing classes and taking the fun right out of the game, imho.
Man, I remember back when there were so many skill choices that it was hard to choose what to put on my bar. And how excited I was when I finally unlocked Magicka Detonation and Caltrops. Sadly they keep nerfing skills to the point of being almost useless and forcing people into a single direction which is annoying and boring playing all the different classes with the same weapon skills.6 -
peoplething✭✭✭Well it's perhaps time to move on, guys.
No voices are being heard (the rants have gone on for years no avail)
that's the biggest reason I'm throwing in the towel. I know MMO's stand the meta on it's head every so often, but I'm kinda under the impression that those games already have the big stuff (like servers and game progression) sorted out.
as mentioned before, a ton of these issues were around in beta or launch. Five years later, they're still here. On top of that, performance is obviously going down the tubes.
and when ZoS basically says: "we know about all this stuff but simply don't care because PROFITS! oh yeah, in addition to NOT fixing anything, we're going to create more problems from our 'patches' that won't get addressed and lastly destroy your build and play style because we want everything standardized".
they're literally flipping off their most loyal customers.11 -
Varaug_Gaming✭✭✭the funny thing about this mans post is that he wants performance fixed while also wanting to have skills balanced seperately for pve and pvp which would also make the game run heavier0 -
iPeriphery✭✭✭✭Varaug_Gaming wrote: »the funny thing about this mans post is that he wants performance fixed while also wanting to have skills balanced seperately for pve and pvp which would also make the game run heavier
The funny thing about that is that it actually has nothing to do with performance? How would having a skill have a different effect in PVP than PVE make anything run slower? That literally makes no sense. It would be like slapping Battle Spirit on, but for skills, so Idk what you are on about.4 -
peoplething✭✭✭^ me?
not sure I ever mentioned either of those things.
but yeah, please tell me how would class balance and separating pvp/pve cause a game to 'run heavier'?
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Varaug_Gaming✭✭✭iPeriphery wrote: »Varaug_Gaming wrote: »the funny thing about this mans post is that he wants performance fixed while also wanting to have skills balanced seperately for pve and pvp which would also make the game run heavier
The funny thing about that is that it actually has nothing to do with performance? How would having a skill have a different effect in PVP than PVE make anything run slower? That literally makes no sense. It would be like slapping Battle Spirit on, but for skills, so Idk what you are on about.
you think battle spirit comes for free?
because it does not, having battle spirit in the game makes the game run heavier too
and i give you a quite simplified example
you have a calculation of attacker hits defender so 100 hit power - 50 defense = 50 damage that has a runtime of 1 because it only has to process the number once
lets take this with battle spirit (100 hit power - 50 defense)/2 = 25 damage that now has a runtime of 2 because it has to process the number twice
these calculations get processed by the server the game is running on
in this example we literally doubled the work load our example processor would have to work himself through
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iPeriphery✭✭✭✭Varaug_Gaming wrote: »iPeriphery wrote: »Varaug_Gaming wrote: »the funny thing about this mans post is that he wants performance fixed while also wanting to have skills balanced seperately for pve and pvp which would also make the game run heavier
The funny thing about that is that it actually has nothing to do with performance? How would having a skill have a different effect in PVP than PVE make anything run slower? That literally makes no sense. It would be like slapping Battle Spirit on, but for skills, so Idk what you are on about.
you think battle spirit comes for free?
because it does not, having battle spirit in the game makes the game run heavier too
and i give you a quite simplified example
you have a calculation of attacker hits defender so 100 hit power - 50 defense = 50 damage that has a runtime of 1 because it only has to process the number once
lets take this with battle spirit (100 hit power - 50 defense)/2 = 25 damage that now has a runtime of 2 because it has to process the number twice
these calculations get processed by the server the game is running on
in this example we literally doubled the work load our example processor would have to work himself through
Or the simple solution would be Zos Not having spaghetti code, but that's too much to ask for. This quote from another post is a great solution that really wouldn't make the game run any heavier at all.
[I don't even remember how many times I've suggested this now..
The simplest way to balance this game for both aspects without breaking one or the other in the process is to simply have all abilities follow either a PvE or PvP table of coefficients.
So any ability used in any PvE situation would reference the PvE table of coefficients, and deal damage based on that.
In any PvP situation (duel, BGs, Cyrodiil, IC, etc.), the player can be invisibly flagged so the game knows that now it needs to reference the PvP table of coefficients when abilities are used.
ezpz
The only non-constant in this ridiculously easy formula are duels. The game would have to know when to unflag both players.. but this isn't impossible to achieve at all. When the losing player dies and the duel is declared over, they're obviously unflagged. When the duel is declared over, the winning player would obviously be unflagged so they don't get shafted in to being stuck with PvP coefficient damage on their abilities while going about their day.
It would require a bit of work on ZOS' part to achieve this, as numerous checks would have to be in place outside of PvP maps to ensure that players were indeed not flagged (thus resulting in different damage than they should be doing), but intelligently designed it's very, very possible.
Doing this would allow the development team to simply adjust ability damage entirely separate from PvE and PvP.
If Surprise Attack's coefficient for PvE was something like 2.25, it could be lowered for PvP to, say, 1.75, so it wasn't two-shotting people, and so on for every other ability, passive, etc. in the game.
I know ability damage calculations aren't as cut and dry as a simple integer determining the damage, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.
Until something like this is done, balance will never be achieved in this game, and every single content patch is going to have one side or the other up in arms because their aspect of the game was altered due to the other aspect.0 -
Varaug_Gaming✭✭✭it could become a good implementation if they say lets do this and just lower the pvp damage scalings and completely remove battle spirit for it0
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iPeriphery✭✭✭✭Varaug_Gaming wrote: »it could become a good implementation if they say lets do this and just lower the pvp damage scalings and completely remove battle spirit for it
Honestly at this point, I just want them to do something. Anything that isn't going to break the game further is a plus for me. I'm so sick of dealing with ZoS's *** for the past 6 years I've been playing. They do good stuff sometimes but it's few and far in between and this game could be so amazing, and it used to be as far as performance goes until they added that lighting patch that screwed performance and they refused to revert. So many problems, so little communication from ZoS. I love this game's combat and there isn't another MMO out there that is like it, but the problems are getting so out of hand that It's really disheartening trying to continue playing this game.5 -
AlienSlof✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AlayneStone wrote: »
I am doing exactly this. Cancelled sub, will be buying no more crowns. Until ZOS get their act together, my wallet remains shut.RIP Atherton, my beautiful little gentle friend, my Shining Light. I will miss you forever. Without you I am a hollow shell.9
This discussion has been closed.