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[Answered] Conjured/Empowered Ward — tooltip in comparison to Hardened Ward on PTS?
TheYKcid
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Edit: This is an old thread. My findings are summarised at:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485041/empowered-ward-has-been-disproportionately-nerfed-on-pts/p1
Short version:
Can anyone help me check this on PTS please? I don't have drive space to do so myself.
I need 3 pieces of info:
It doesn't matter how much max mag or Bastion points you have (as I'm just investigating their scaling relative to each other), but you'll need to keep these stats constant during the test.
Basically, just leave your build unchanged while swapping-out the morphs at a respec shrine.
I hypothesise that Hardened Ward will have a tooltip ~37.56% higher than the Empowered morph.
Much appreciated!
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Longer version — justification & mechanical basis:
On live, using Conjured Ward as a baseline for comparison, here's how the two upgrade morphs perform:
I obtained these values from ingame tests, and they are corroborated by the scaling coefficients listed on UESP. As these differences originate at the stat-scaling level, they are therefore independent of your max mag and Bastion modifier — i.e these ratios will hold true regardless of these two parameters.
Regarding the nerf, the PTS notes imply the following changes to the scaling of these abilities:
From this we can see that on PTS, Hardened Ward will now be (112.8/82)-1 = 37.56% stronger than the Empowered morph.
This is a huge widening of the disparity compared to live, where Hardened is only 20% ahead as demonstrated earlier. In spite of its lower cost, the Empowered morph is almost universally worse on live, and rarely used (if ever). This readjustment will make it even more worthless if my calculations are correct, and should be scrutinised and re-evaluated by the devs.
Edited by TheYKcid on July 13, 2019 5:05PM https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485041/empowered-ward-has-been-disproportionately-nerfed-on-pts/p1
Short version:
Can anyone help me check this on PTS please? I don't have drive space to do so myself.
I need 3 pieces of info:
- Conjured Ward IV tooltip (the base morph of the skill)
- Empowered Ward tooltip (skill rank shouldn't matter)
- Hardened Ward IV tooltip
It doesn't matter how much max mag or Bastion points you have (as I'm just investigating their scaling relative to each other), but you'll need to keep these stats constant during the test.
Basically, just leave your build unchanged while swapping-out the morphs at a respec shrine.
I hypothesise that Hardened Ward will have a tooltip ~37.56% higher than the Empowered morph.
Much appreciated!
_______________________________________________________________________
Longer version — justification & mechanical basis:
On live, using Conjured Ward as a baseline for comparison, here's how the two upgrade morphs perform:
- Empowered — 1.033x compared to Conjured
- Hardened — 1.2396x compared to Conjured ... alternatively expressed as 1.2x compared to Empowered
I obtained these values from ingame tests, and they are corroborated by the scaling coefficients listed on UESP. As these differences originate at the stat-scaling level, they are therefore independent of your max mag and Bastion modifier — i.e these ratios will hold true regardless of these two parameters.
Regarding the nerf, the PTS notes imply the following changes to the scaling of these abilities:
- Conjured, 18% nerf
= 82% compared to live value of Conjured - Empowered, 18% nerf + removal of 1.1% improvement per rank-up
= 82% compared to live value of Conjured - Hardened 9% nerf
= (1.2396 * 0.91) = 112.8% compared to live value of Conjured
From this we can see that on PTS, Hardened Ward will now be (112.8/82)-1 = 37.56% stronger than the Empowered morph.
This is a huge widening of the disparity compared to live, where Hardened is only 20% ahead as demonstrated earlier. In spite of its lower cost, the Empowered morph is almost universally worse on live, and rarely used (if ever). This readjustment will make it even more worthless if my calculations are correct, and should be scrutinised and re-evaluated by the devs.
PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭the health cap is the same, 40/50% for empowered/hardened ward, so if you are at health cap anyways, you will not see a difference in size compared to live, here is my sorc.
live tooltips
PTS tooltips-
stats-
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Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Uncapped tooltips in Cyrodiil, with ~ 35k max mag and no CP:
Conjured Ward: 5455
Empowered Ward: 5455
Hardened Ward: 7513Edited by Rianai on July 13, 2019 12:19PM1 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO thanks, but with those stats your wards are health-capped, so any differences in the scaling between live and PTS won't emerge.
You could get around it by using single-stat health food, changing Mundus to the Lord, etc. You could also enter Cyro to halve sheild size (while still preserving the ratios).
I'll update the OP to mention this consideration.PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Rianai Thank you, that is exactly what I needed!
Your values represent a Hardened tooltip 37.98% relative to Empowered, really close to predicted values.
Case in point, Empowered received a huge downgrade relative to the alternative morph. I'll reformat the thread to highlight this issue when I have time later.PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just noticed i made a typo. Empowered Ward doesn't has a lower size (5445) than the base morph. 5455 is the correct value for both. Just a small mistake, but i wanted to mention it nonetheless for the sake of accuracy.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@TheYKcid
this what you looking for?
kind of insane to think that if hardened ward didn't have a health cap, i would be able to get a 21,722 hardened ward on my build.
so based on my numbers there, hardened ward is 42% of your max magic and empowered is 31% of your max magic, a 32% increase in size from empowered to hardened. but empowered lasts for 33% longer then hardened, so it works out.
on live, hardened is ~47% your max magic and empowered is ~39% of your max magic.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 13, 2019 1:12PM0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭!I just noticed i made a typo. Empowered Ward doesn't has a lower size (5445) than the base morph. 5455 is the correct value for both. Just a small mistake, but i wanted to mention it nonetheless for the sake of accuracy.
37.73% more on Hardened, then. Even more accurate which is great. Thanks again!PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The cost increase on conjured ward is the main issue imo. And the duration on empowered is irrelevant for pvp. It wont last that long in combat anyway, as long as that is one of the morph effects, it wont be the preferred choice imo
PC EU
PvP only1