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The P2W elephant in the room.
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't object to making it level 50 restricted. But again, it's not solving anything doing that.0 -
SpiderKnight✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please show us a level 25 character with Mages, Undaunted, Fighter's Guild-maxed Soul Magic 6, and every skyshard in the game. You damn well you'll be well over level 25 at that point.0 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
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Not really, because his analogy is wrong.
It should go something like this "It's like saying that having a car to get from A to B is somehow NOT a transportation advantage, because you can wait for the bus and go from A to B that way."
In this context bus and car perform identically, so all you get is getting there a bit quicker and more casually.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You first need to earn them on other charecter just as you need with skyshard,and no its not even close to p2w
Because directly buying an advantage is not P2W. Wow.
Even if you "could" collect everything available before lvl 50, which you can't, it is still using an advantage.
It's like saying that having a car to get from A to B is somehow NOT a transportation advantage, because yOu cAn jUsT wAlK tHeRe.
So what you are basically saying is that buying tripots or mount upgrades from crown store is also P2W cause it gives you an advantage?0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »The fact of the matter remains: There are a lot of "old" players who play sub-50 PvP.
They'll roll a new character, play in sub-50 PvP until they reach 50, then roll a new one and repeat the process.
Why do they do this? Because many like how sub-50 is balanced. The gear sets and skills that you face against are more limited.
I can understand their point of view because I personally have a lot more fun in sub-50 BGs than I do in vet BGs. I don't go through the trouble of rolling new characters specifically for this, but I do try to limit the amount of leveling that I do in PvE so that I get to enjoy this sub-50 experience longer.
But here's the key point: As you try to acquire and level those skill lines that grant you power, you are leveling the character. The tradeoff has always been that if you tried to acquire more power against your opponents in sub-50, you will end up spending less time in sub-50.
Buying skill lines means that people with the money to spend can now bypass that tradeoff.
The second consideration is battle-leveling. Battle-leveling is stronger in lower lowbies. That is to say, a level 10 battle-leveled to 50/C160 has better stats than a level 40 battle-leveled to 50/C160. This is to compensate for the fact that a level 10 has a more limited range of skills and abilities available to them. Again, being able to buy skill lines upsets this balancing consideration.
The simple thing to do is to allow the purchase of these things only on level 50 characters. You want a shortcut to leveling? Sure, that's fine. Just wait till you are level 50.
I'm not arguing against your suggestion because I think it's fine, but I believe people are underestimating how expensive it will be to buy a fully-leveled new character. It's really hard for me to imagine this being something done frequently even if you can purchase the skills right out of the gate. And to do it repeatedly just to dominate <50 BGs... I think you'd need a pretty fat wallet to keep your hobby up.
I would never do such a thing. You evidently wouldn't do such a thing. And I think most people wouldn't. But all it takes is for one person to do it to negatively impact the experience of everyone else that they fight against.
So are there people who would do this? I'm sure there will be. If there are people who spend $1000 on Crates to chase after a Radiant Apex mount, I'm sure there will be people who will spend 1/10 of that to feel like a god in PvP.
But people seem to be ignoring the fact that what's being bought with these changes can be done right now for free and still ruin the same content. People already gold out lowbie gear, grind these skill lines up to get the best skills from them, and do all that while staying under level 50.
Yes, twinking is already a thing. But this exacerbates the problem, don't you see? Just because the problem already exists to an extent doesn't mean it should be fine to make it worse.
And nobody is going to get Dawnbreaker at level 10 right now, since getting Dawnbreaker requires killing enemies, and that grants XP. A level 10 with Dawnbreaker is more disruptive than a level 30 with Dawnbreaker because of the stronger scaling of Battle Leveling for the level 10.
Again, all that's needed is a level 50 restriction. If people want this convenience for to get a character up to speed for vet content, this restriction would have no effect on them whatsoever.
Again this is not a true statement. You can get dawnbreaker at level 3.
I think what you mean is you can get the fighter's guild skill line at level 3, not Dawnbreaker. Minimum XP needed to unlock Dawnbreaker will get your character above level 10.
Troll...
If you didnt get xp from exploration you could probably get dawnbreaker at lvl1. You literally dont have to kill anything that grants xp to lvl up FG.0 -
rsantijw13✭✭✭wonder if my levels 6 16 26 and 36 gold gear(purple jewelry) is going to be an offense that will get me banned because someone who picked up the game last week gets beat up on in pvp. Surely me buying and being a sub since day 1 should actually put me at a disadvantage to all newcomers because feeling mean more than facts. I am laughing at this because if you play a character for more than one week and are not at least level 50 then you must have been doing some massive ERP instead.0
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rsantijw13✭✭✭and you can P2W to have an elephant put in one of your houses? Does it matter which room I put the elephant in to win
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Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes and now level 1 can have all the skill lines being offered.
It's only a big deal in lowbie PVP. Highly invested re-rollers with gold gear should be really excited about this. Now they can stomp new players even faster in lowbie pvp.
Not if the lowbies are busy doing what they should which is playing the main story and levelling their skill lines.
Why the compulsive need to run to PvP at “level 10”expecting to be a face rolling god when you know that people that have played this game for over 5 years are there in crafted or even dropped sets, in some cases golded out, with best food and potions, that you can’t craft nor buy since you shouldn’t even have the gold to buy any relevant quantity, I’ll never understand.
It’s not catering to whales, these people have done what you are clearly too lazy to do yourself, but you want what you’ve seen on Twitch and YouTube and you want it now. Even if you’ve only played the game for 5 hours (compared to my ~7,000 hrs).
If it was offered to anyone for Crowns regardless of completion then I’d agree, it would be whaleism, but it’s not.
Level your first ever char to 50 with those skill trees fully ranked and then make your level 10 BG monster with bought skill lines if you think only that’s what’ll make you good at PvP. It’d take a weekend.
People should leave their LOL, DOTA what ever reasoning and logic at the door when entering Elder Scrolls Online, thank you.
Edited by Idinuse on July 13, 2019 8:26AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Berenhir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Max CP players seal clubbing in <50 PvP are pathetic losers anyway, if they now gotta buy their skill lines to compete with the other tryhard seal clubbers it's a good thing.
It already was pay to win, as they paid with their dignity.PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -1