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RIP Senches
Mystikkal
✭✭✭
So Senche's is not a very common set, but it was nerfed into the ground. The 5 piece set bonus now gives %12 more crit dmg for 8 seconds.
Here is how it compares when the stats are broken down relative to Mundus stones.
The Shadow Mundus stone will give you 13% crit dmg, rather than 238 weapon damage (Warrior Mundus Stone). So for each % of crit dmg, you give up 18 weapon dmg (238/13=18)
Senches will give you 12% crit dmg, rather than say hundings rage which will give you 299 weapon dmg. So for each % of crit dmg, you give up 25 weapon dmg (299/12=25).
AND that’s assuming senches has full uptime, which it won't. AND you have to use like 2.5k stamina to roll dodge
RIP Senches
Here is how it compares when the stats are broken down relative to Mundus stones.
The Shadow Mundus stone will give you 13% crit dmg, rather than 238 weapon damage (Warrior Mundus Stone). So for each % of crit dmg, you give up 18 weapon dmg (238/13=18)
Senches will give you 12% crit dmg, rather than say hundings rage which will give you 299 weapon dmg. So for each % of crit dmg, you give up 25 weapon dmg (299/12=25).
AND that’s assuming senches has full uptime, which it won't. AND you have to use like 2.5k stamina to roll dodge
RIP Senches
15
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So Senche's is not a very common set, but it was nerfed into the ground. The 5 piece set bonus now gives %12 more crit dmg for 8 seconds.
Here is how it compares when the stats are broken down relative to Mundus stones.
The Shadow Mundus stone will give you 13% crit dmg, rather than 238 weapon damage (Warrior Mundus Stone). So for each % of crit dmg, you give up 18 weapon dmg (238/13=18)
Senches will give you 12% crit dmg, rather than say hundings rage which will give you 299 weapon dmg. So for each % of crit dmg, you give up 25 weapon dmg (299/12=25).
AND that’s assuming senches has full uptime, which it won't. AND you have to use like 2.5k stamina to roll dodge
RIP Senches
I don't think is quite dead, what about putting a DoT and then dodgeroll?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is a pretty darn common set. The new idea of set is for crit builds, who will stack it with Shadow and Khajiit.2 -
jediodyn_ESO✭✭✭✭The set wasn’t super popular to begin with, the change makes it much worse than half a dozen other, already more popular, options.
What was the point of this change? Did someone actually think it would make it better?
All it needed was a slight increase to the uptime of the previous boosts.Edited by jediodyn_ESO on July 10, 2019 3:25AM13 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is a pretty darn common set. The new idea of set is for crit builds, who will stack it with Shadow and Khajiit.
Anyway dode roll proc condition is not a playstyle for PVE and it's even not good for ganking as you have to first dodgeroll.
Proc on dodgeroll shall be changed or duration to extend. This set will have rarely useEdited by Lord_Eomer on July 10, 2019 3:27AM3 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭I imagine it would be still decent for rollerblades.
The % crit damage you get is negating the crit resistance from other players so it can be more useful than WP damage, or just as useful but not for healing, would need to test it pre-pts vs after-pts. It will have the damage nerfed, but you will have a easier time with the uptime, since it almost doubled the duration.
Also you can front/back the set unlike HundingsEdited by Nevasca on July 10, 2019 3:43AM0 -
jediodyn_ESO✭✭✭✭Littlebluelizard wrote: »I imagine it would be still decent for rollerblades.
The % crit damage you get is negating the crit resistance from other players so it can be more useful than WP damage, or just as useful but not for healing, would need to test it pre-pts vs after-pts. It will have the damage nerfed, but you will have a easier time with the uptime, since it almost doubled the duration.
Also you can front/back the set unlike Hundings
That isn’t how crit resist works. Impen reduces the amount of crit damage anyone does to you, not the chance of someone doing crit damage to you. Having a ton of crit is therefore less desirable than having a little crit an a ton of damage (hence the 7th,Fury Bloodspawn meta we have now on live)
Crit is actually a terrible stat in PvP against players in impen (awesome against PvE players who decide to jump into PvP “for a little fun”)0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jediodyn_ESO wrote: »Littlebluelizard wrote: »I imagine it would be still decent for rollerblades.
The % crit damage you get is negating the crit resistance from other players so it can be more useful than WP damage, or just as useful but not for healing, would need to test it pre-pts vs after-pts. It will have the damage nerfed, but you will have a easier time with the uptime, since it almost doubled the duration.
Also you can front/back the set unlike Hundings
That isn’t how crit resist works. Impen reduces the amount of crit damage anyone does to you, not the chance of someone doing crit damage to you. Having a ton of crit is therefore less desirable than having a little crit an a ton of damage (hence the 7th,Fury Bloodspawn meta we have now on live)
Crit is actually a terrible stat in PvP against players in impen (awesome against PvE players who decide to jump into PvP “for a little fun”)
That's exactly how Crit Damage Modifier works in PvP. Critical Hit Resistance is inverse Critical Hit Modifier.4 -
Frudu✭✭I would prefer a slightly longer uptime like the 8 sec to have more useful uptime after the dodge animation and maintain the wep dmg and small crit % buff. The weapon dmg could also be buffed to bring it in line with overused sets like 7th or fury which both give insane high wep dmg and can be put on extremely tanky setups to put out stupid amounts of dmg.
For example play s&b NB with green pact, Fury and bloodspawn, trolking or Pirate skeleton and your just stupidly strong, almost unkillable in a 1v1 ( realy you have to be extremely unskilled to die with this setup in a duel) while still pushing out huge dmg.
this cant die = always win or no one wins... is stupid game design but its eso endgame pvp.1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is correct. While the rarity of crit damage bonus or the duration increase shouldnt be overlooked this set went from giving you 4.1 set bonuses for 5s after dodgeroll to giving 1.7 set bonuses fo 8s after dodge roll.
That is assuming shadow mundus value is standard and ZoS knows what they are doing with crit damage. Which we cannot rely on as much with sets like Archer Mind giving 5% to crit damage and 10% from sneak and sets like Impregnable giving whooping 30% crit damage negation.
In any case assuming wearer isnt using shadow mundus already this 5th piece is way underperfoming compared to TBS bonus of allowing you to use shadow mundus as second. Something that isnt seen with any other mundus effects where sets dedicated to give mundus bonus in some way (hunding for weapon damage, spriggan for penetration and so on) perform well over the TBS.3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They just needed to increase duration to 6 seconds to match 5 seconds buff standard (obviously 1 second was wasted in roll). Instead of that from questionable set Senche moved to extremely niche set. Will work good when RNG is good and suck when RNG is bad. I tested it on PTS stacked to 110% crit damage and with couple of crits in the row that 30k HP player just suddenly died. When it doesn't crit you hit like a wet noodle though.
Also despite name this is bosmer's ohme's roll dodge set, not cathay's one.
ZOS, plz reconsider this change of this already niche set, because now it'll literally empower khajiit NB ganker - i.e. build you are trying to nerf for several patches in the row.4 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »They just needed to increase duration to 6 seconds to match 5 seconds buff standard (obviously 1 second was wasted in roll). Instead of that from questionable set Senche moved to extremely niche set. Will work good when RNG is good and suck when RNG is bad. I tested it on PTS stacked to 110% crit damage and with couple of crits in the row that 30k HP player just suddenly died. When it doesn't crit you hit like a wet noodle though.
Also despite name this is bosmer's ohme's roll dodge set, not cathay's one.
ZOS, plz reconsider this change of this already niche set, because now it'll literally empower khajiit NB ganker - i.e. build you are trying to nerf for several patches in the row.
Exactly why I like this, I can drop Archer's Mind for this as I dodge a lot anyways. 12% crit dmg is a lot when you have 77% crit chance with 4k wep dmg.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »They just needed to increase duration to 6 seconds to match 5 seconds buff standard (obviously 1 second was wasted in roll). Instead of that from questionable set Senche moved to extremely niche set. Will work good when RNG is good and suck when RNG is bad. I tested it on PTS stacked to 110% crit damage and with couple of crits in the row that 30k HP player just suddenly died. When it doesn't crit you hit like a wet noodle though.
Also despite name this is bosmer's ohme's roll dodge set, not cathay's one.
ZOS, plz reconsider this change of this already niche set, because now it'll literally empower khajiit NB ganker - i.e. build you are trying to nerf for several patches in the row.
Exactly why I like this, I can drop Archer's Mind for this as I dodge a lot anyways. 12% crit dmg is a lot when you have 77% crit chance with 4k wep dmg.
There might be so many sick builds with this set
12% extra in PVP is even more then in PVE. And new camouflaged hunter motivates to outflank, from what I see it procs on many dots, though looks a little buggy. 0 -
Mystikkal✭✭✭The only way to get really high crit chance is to give up a lot, like penetration from maces by using daggers. Senche's is no longer viable, even if you stack crit. It's just underpowered now. Frustrating that a set is nerfed this hard that was very rarely used to begin with. Roll dodging uses A TON of stamina and it's just not worth it anymore. Anyways, just pointing it out.0
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only way to get really high crit chance is to give up a lot, like penetration from maces by using daggers. Senche's is no longer viable, even if you stack crit. It's just underpowered now. Frustrating that a set is nerfed this hard that was very rarely used to begin with. Roll dodging uses A TON of stamina and it's just not worth it anymore. Anyways, just pointing it out.
Or by using Mechanical Acuity.
0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only way to get really high crit chance is to give up a lot, like penetration from maces by using daggers. Senche's is no longer viable, even if you stack crit. It's just underpowered now. Frustrating that a set is nerfed this hard that was very rarely used to begin with. Roll dodging uses A TON of stamina and it's just not worth it anymore. Anyways, just pointing it out.
At some breakpoint crit % and crit damage start to net way more damage then WD. Obviously targets with Impregnable will be a bad surprise for Senche, but which % of players use it? basic 7 pieces of impenetrable are pierced just fine. Senche will be RNG burst build got several crits in a row? target is dead. 0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »The only way to get really high crit chance is to give up a lot, like penetration from maces by using daggers. Senche's is no longer viable, even if you stack crit. It's just underpowered now. Frustrating that a set is nerfed this hard that was very rarely used to begin with. Roll dodging uses A TON of stamina and it's just not worth it anymore. Anyways, just pointing it out.
At some breakpoint crit % and crit damage start to net way more damage then WD. Obviously targets with Impregnable will be a bad surprise for Senche, but which % of players use it? basic 7 pieces of impenetrable are pierced just fine. Senche will be RNG burst build got several crits in a row? target is dead.
Problem is it now competes with pure damage sets like Spriggan, Proc sets and so on. Since change from wd/crit chance to crit damage negate any defensive gain from those stats.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »The only way to get really high crit chance is to give up a lot, like penetration from maces by using daggers. Senche's is no longer viable, even if you stack crit. It's just underpowered now. Frustrating that a set is nerfed this hard that was very rarely used to begin with. Roll dodging uses A TON of stamina and it's just not worth it anymore. Anyways, just pointing it out.
At some breakpoint crit % and crit damage start to net way more damage then WD. Obviously targets with Impregnable will be a bad surprise for Senche, but which % of players use it? basic 7 pieces of impenetrable are pierced just fine. Senche will be RNG burst build got several crits in a row? target is dead.
Problem is it now competes with pure damage sets like Spriggan, Proc sets and so on. Since change from wd/crit chance to crit damage negate any defensive gain from those stats.
Well, with new massive and cheap heals like buffed vigor and regeneration, I think importance of burst will be even higher. And unlike WD, crit is re-calculated every tick. So you first apply dots and then your Senche will be applied to them, while previous one wasn't. Previous Senche was great to stack ton of weapon damage. But duration was really short. I'll prefer 6 seconds version of old senche to new one, but this 8 seconds of 12% crit damage is a buff in comparison to 5 seconds on live - in case you use high crit build.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »The only way to get really high crit chance is to give up a lot, like penetration from maces by using daggers. Senche's is no longer viable, even if you stack crit. It's just underpowered now. Frustrating that a set is nerfed this hard that was very rarely used to begin with. Roll dodging uses A TON of stamina and it's just not worth it anymore. Anyways, just pointing it out.
At some breakpoint crit % and crit damage start to net way more damage then WD. Obviously targets with Impregnable will be a bad surprise for Senche, but which % of players use it? basic 7 pieces of impenetrable are pierced just fine. Senche will be RNG burst build got several crits in a row? target is dead.
Problem is it now competes with pure damage sets like Spriggan, Proc sets and so on. Since change from wd/crit chance to crit damage negate any defensive gain from those stats.
Well, with new massive and cheap heals like buffed vigor and regeneration, I think importance of burst will be even higher. And unlike WD, crit is re-calculated every tick. So you first apply dots and then your Senche will be applied to them, while previous one wasn't. Previous Senche was great to stack ton of weapon damage. But duration was really short. I'll prefer 6 seconds version of old senche to new one, but this 8 seconds of 12% crit damage is a buff in comparison to 5 seconds on live - in case you use high crit build.
Oh its definitely interesting set, but there is 95 useless ones and they picked one that was almost good and changed it, net result is no addition and 1 even more niche set.1 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is a massive nerf to this set, I have no idea why they have done this. The set was already rarely used and now it's been completely destroyed.
These two mundus stones are supposed to be equivalent. So what the heck is this?
Forget the no crit chance, look at the difference in just weapon damage vs critical chance!Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is a massive nerf to this set, I have no idea why they have done this. The set was already rarely used and now it's been completely destroyed.
These two mundus stones are supposed to be equivalent. So what the heck is this?
Forget the no crit chance, look at the difference in just weapon damage vs critical chance!
Duration increased almost twice. I have golden senche infused jewelry on live, so I know what I'm talking about... 4 seconds are very small time window in comparison to 8 seconds (cause crit damage is applied to already ongoing dots). Though I agree it may need additional buff, maybe to 15% of crit. Or better combination of WD+crit so it is more versatile and not pigeonholed into khajiit.1 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This is a massive nerf to this set, I have no idea why they have done this. The set was already rarely used and now it's been completely destroyed.
These two mundus stones are supposed to be equivalent. So what the heck is this?
Forget the no crit chance, look at the difference in just weapon damage vs critical chance!
Duration increased almost twice. I have golden senche infused jewelry on live, so I know what I'm talking about... 4 seconds are very small time window in comparison to 8 seconds (cause crit damage is applied to already ongoing dots). Though I agree it may need additional buff, maybe to 15% of crit. Or better combination of WD+crit so it is more versatile and not pigeonholed into khajiit.
Imo, they should give it up Crit chance as well Crit dmg. That will make it do more consistent burst.2 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This is a massive nerf to this set, I have no idea why they have done this. The set was already rarely used and now it's been completely destroyed.
These two mundus stones are supposed to be equivalent. So what the heck is this?
Forget the no crit chance, look at the difference in just weapon damage vs critical chance!
Duration increased almost twice. I have golden senche infused jewelry on live, so I know what I'm talking about... 4 seconds are very small time window in comparison to 8 seconds (cause crit damage is applied to already ongoing dots). Though I agree it may need additional buff, maybe to 15% of crit. Or better combination of WD+crit so it is more versatile and not pigeonholed into khajiit.
What do you mean, it's a duration increase of 3 seconds, not 4. Even with 15% additional crit damage it would be a nerf to what it is on live currently. This set was one of the few (if not the only) medium armor set which offered a good amount of weapon damage. Now we don't have any good medium weapon damage sets anymore.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »This is a massive nerf to this set, I have no idea why they have done this. The set was already rarely used and now it's been completely destroyed.
These two mundus stones are supposed to be equivalent. So what the heck is this?
Forget the no crit chance, look at the difference in just weapon damage vs critical chance!
Duration increased almost twice. I have golden senche infused jewelry on live, so I know what I'm talking about... 4 seconds are very small time window in comparison to 8 seconds (cause crit damage is applied to already ongoing dots). Though I agree it may need additional buff, maybe to 15% of crit. Or better combination of WD+crit so it is more versatile and not pigeonholed into khajiit.
What do you mean, it's a duration increase of 3 seconds, not 4. Even with 15% additional crit damage it would be a nerf to what it is on live currently. This set was one of the few (if not the only) medium armor set which offered a good amount of weapon damage. Now we don't have any good medium weapon damage sets anymore.
But first second of buff was wasted in roll-dodge and weapon damage is not applied on ongoing dots. So despite impressive tooltip, Senche was good only for some very quick bursts on roll-dodge exit, from my experience. Trying to time it with berserker enchant proc, and all the WD buffs was quite a task. Now you may apply dots, roll-dodge, proc berserker and have full 5 seconds duration of fully buffed setup. But ofc crit damage start to pay-off only when combined with more crit damage and more crit chance. So it's like another 12% to already min-maxed crit build with shadow mundus, and preferably khajiit NB. Otherwise it's useless, I agree.0 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭--- A non-khajiit, non-nightblade crit build ---
base crit damage (50) + shadow (13) + sench (12) + 56 precise strikes (20) + minor force (12) = 107 crit damage stat
no sench crit resit required to fully mitigate = 6270
with sench crit resit required to fully mitigate = 7062
Fighting against build with 3.5k crit resist without sench: 6270-3500 = 2770 = 1.42 x crit multiplier
Fighting against build with 3.5k crit resist with sench: 7062-3500 = 3760 = 1.54 x crit multiplier
Percentage damage increase for crits from sench = 1.54 / 1.42 * 100 -100 = 8.5 %
So real world crit hits are 8.5% harder with sench against a 3.5k resist build
Put it on a wood elf templar for a slightly harder crit hit and the penetration gain. Or use a different race for higher flat stats. Stamblades still have archers mind. Other classes now have this if they want to stack crit. We can do a lot in 8 seconds on a crit build. I'll probably try it on my khajiit stam sorc.
Edit: fixed a stupid mistake of filling in @MartiniDaniels suggested value for sench (15%) rather than the actual one (12%). Now fixed. If the suggest value of 15% crit damage were used then the 8.5% real world crit hit damage scaling would increase to 10.5% against this fictional 3.5k resist character.Edited by Kolzki on July 13, 2019 1:25AM2 -
Ecfigies✭✭✭Senche and Veiled, the changes don't make much sense, they were ok, we still have Truth at least, for now.0 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭my response as pvper
senche is d8gshtt in live, they want to make it even worse now.
so dev think that 5 second weapon damage buff is overpowered? LMAO.
i myself dont use it as snb and use spriggan in pvp instead.
reason:
even though you have a freedom to trigger it, the cost (>2.5k stamina / 5sec) (it mean we need extra >1000 stamregen to maintain it like a constant sets), low uptime (5sec), and not usable in stealth just not even worth it vs a constant sets like hunding and spriggan or high uptime easy free proc like 7th legion.
- imagine we have to waste stamina and gcd (if we not animation cancel attack while dodge) to only get a 5 sec buff. It might be used by roller / full glass cannon, but in stand your ground fight / real 'pvp' it just so clunky and expensive to maintain the buff.
- +1 stack dodge fatigue, more stamina loss.
- it messes our positioning especially in tight or elevated space.1
