Why are we buffing dots AND nerfing shields? Already a counter...

Malamar1229 · July 2019

Why not just nerf shields and leave dots alone??? It's already become a meme with the wep dmg set having like 80% uptime on 800wep dmg, and dots were already a counter to dmg shields. Nerfing them and then buffing the dots is a bit overkill. We're already having reports of it being difficult to sustain hardened ward on pts....I mean I am personally glad you butchered pet sorc but now you're turning what I thought to be a fun class (petless magicka sorc) into a high maintenance class. And of course what I mean by that is we dont really have much in the way of options when it comes to dot builds and you're turning this into a stam dot meta. In it's current state it feels like another pigeon hole into running hots (meaning a resto staff) and sustain at the expense of competitive dmg. Dont forget we're losing some now not running the bird.

universal_wrath · July 2019

I think the nerf to shield is not justifable, as sorc does not have a burst heal, shield is there only mean of surivival, and tried to wait for hots to heal them without pets.

Hardened ward is class exclusive ability and should not be same as other generic skill that is availabe to everyone, it should be better. I guess next time we skill a surpise attack for everyone... oh wait, i forgt about silver bullet. Turn evil is a superior version of fear...etc

ku5h · July 2019

Soon only difference between classes will be their names.

ecru · July 2019

universal_wrath wrote: »

I think the nerf to shield is not justifable, as sorc does not have a burst heal, shield is there only mean of surivival, and tried to wait for hots to heal them without pets.

Hardened ward is class exclusive ability and should not be same as other generic skill that is availabe to everyone, it should be better. I guess next time we skill a surpise attack for everyone... oh wait, i forgt about silver bullet. Turn evil is a superior version of fear...etc

matriarch isn't a burst heal?

resto's single target heals were buffed, that's the counter. i don't like these new dots at all but self healing is about to go way up for mag just by slotting a resto staff.

olsborg · July 2019

Ill take the nerf to shield size, fine, but the nerf to its cost aswell...too much.

josh.lackey_ESO · July 2019

It's funny people complain about the shields, but then if we try to rely on heals, they complain about the pet.

It would be nice to have a one-bar heal that isn't tied to a pet.

Maybe they should add a toggle to turn off the pet completely and let you directly cast the active ability.

universal_wrath wrote: »

I think the nerf to shield is not justifable, as sorc does not have a burst heal, shield is there only mean of surivival, and tried to wait for hots to heal them without pets.

You are forgetting we don't have any hot's either. 😂

ecru wrote: »

resto's single target heals were buffed, that's the counter. i don't like these new dots at all but self healing is about to go way up for mag just by slotting a resto staff.

No, resto single target heal was massively nerfed. The only one was Healing Ward.

Now they have changed Regeneration to be single-target but the problem with regen is that it targets randomly. To get it to pop on yourself, you have to spam and spam it.

Waffennacht · July 2019

Yeah... It does look bad imo. I haven't played mag sorc in a while and it's definitely gonna be a while yet more

sankarul · July 2019

Regeneration's crazy strong now. Made a no-cp build on PTS that gets about 15k tooltip over 10 sec + I think 8.5k burst when I go below 20% on the mutagen part. Else it's 15k over 5 sec - like old time vigor for most builds.

ProzTh3Almighty · July 2019

I had this discussion with someone last night an didnt realize regeneration didnt heal the caster if youwere around other allies. Never had an issue cuz i always played solo but it should be made to heal the caster always and one or two allies on top with a larger heal for the caster an slightly reduced heals for allies like the old vigor. Just makes sense. Alot of the resto skills dnt make alot of sense when you think of them from a non-healer utility skill line point of view.

Lucky28 · July 2019

i think shields where already nerfed enough. this is overkill.

Kova · July 2019

Lucky28 wrote: »

i think shields where already nerfed enough. this is overkill.

They've been "already nerfed" in nearly every major patch since 2017. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if hardened ward is replaced by another pet. It's just something the playerbase will always be fired up about. I honestly feel like, at least at this point, it's that a persons healthbar is barely dented that triggers people even though shields are less effective overall.

"Passive HoT keeping tanky DDs topped off? Since me can see the healthbar moving, me brain knows me do damage."

PhoenixGrey · July 2019

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Why not just nerf shields and leave dots alone??? It's already become a meme with the wep dmg set having like 80% uptime on 800wep dmg, and dots were already a counter to dmg shields. Nerfing them and then buffing the dots is a bit overkill. We're already having reports of it being difficult to sustain hardened ward on pts....I mean I am personally glad you butchered pet sorc but now you're turning what I thought to be a fun class (petless magicka sorc) into a high maintenance class. And of course what I mean by that is we dont really have much in the way of options when it comes to dot builds and you're turning this into a stam dot meta. In it's current state it feels like another pigeon hole into running hots (meaning a resto staff) and sustain at the expense of competitive dmg. Dont forget we're losing some now not running the bird.

We have reached the end of the road my friend. I personally feel the cost increase and strength nerf on hardened ward is as bad as the cast time on shields.

Derra · July 2019

I love how a lot of people are suggesting for the sorc to just slot hots.
Do you people not understand that sorcs do not have class synergy with healing?
Or that building for shields is entirely different from building for heals?

My sorcs mutagen will by defaul heal for 37% less (it´s more bc sorc builds for less dmg aswell due to being required to build for high mag pool) than my dks while also being complemented by less passive/offensive healing.

You can´t just tell a class that is by design not meant to heal well to: Just start using healing abilities instead of shields.
The result is that the class will be worse than any class that is designed to heal themselves.

Then the suggestion that matriarch in it´s current state would be a proper burst heal option - again on a class with no healing synergie. Also not scaling like other heals but instead purely on magica. As of this patch costing two slots, can die and has the benefit of adding a dot that does 20% of entropys dps. A heal that can die with a dot component so weak that gets outpaced by healthrec.
For real?

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

sankarul wrote: »

Regeneration's crazy strong now. Made a no-cp build on PTS that gets about 15k tooltip over 10 sec + I think 8.5k burst when I go below 20% on the mutagen part. Else it's 15k over 5 sec - like old time vigor for most builds.

That´s good for the healers, who are the ones who slot Resto staff (okay, maybe also some Pvp builds). For PvE content, now that the Matriarch is gone (2 slots and almost no DPS? No thanks, Matriach only serves for sorc healers, who will dissapear afte healing nerfs) there isn´t any good heal. One solution to keep health´s up would be casting Power Surge (expensive, and Major Sorcery now is up thanks to Degeneration so you would only slot it for the heal) and casting a shield for protecting you while you regen health. This is easily a 6k magicka and 2 GCD combo, while Stamina players just lose 1 GCD and 2k stamina. And considering most Stamina players will have more resistances thanks to armor type, will mean they will take less damage.

Stamina players trying to compare Vigor to Regeneration are just trying to justifying themselves. Adding easy access to AOE defences to every stamina class... now Stamina players not only have better DPS than magicka classes, they´re also have better healing and defences, better survability: something which could be attached to magicka classes before. Sustain also looks better on Stamina classes so i don´t find many reasons to play a Magicka DPS, Magicka just seems to stay for healer role.

I´d bet money on which kind of resource the dev team plays.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

Sorcs have a hot... surge... a burst heal... the deal. Tf are ppl bsing for?

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Sorcs have a hot... surge... a burst heal... the deal. Tf are ppl bsing for?

What burst heal? The matriarch one? A one that needs TWO slots and deals neglilible DPS? Not admisible. Surge? already explained, also not a true hot, you need to keep doing crits for healing, and expensive one and now more considering there will be a clear source of Major Sorcery, Degeneration.

DD Sorcs won´t have any reliable source of healing after patch but potions, unless some Pvp builds with Resto staff.

vesselwiththepestle · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

DD Sorcs won´t have any reliable source of healing after patch but potions, unless some Pvp builds with Resto staff.

Dark Deal, Dark Conversion?

universal_wrath · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Sorcs have a hot... surge... a burst heal... the deal. Tf are ppl bsing for?

Surge is not a HOT, it's only relaible as your crit rate, you don't crit, you don't heal. Also you don't fight, you don't heal, how is that a HOT for you?

Also, matraich is a burst heal, but it also dies and takes to slots. If it dies mid fight, I have to channel summon it and not to be bashed by someone. 2 slots for a burst heal is way too mich for it's draw back. Just imagine you have to dauble slot BOL and channel it of 1,2 sec to use it, or it's a summon that can be killed. If you argue about matriach dmg, I have alway be oppesite of matraich doing any dmg at all to make tormentor morph more vaible for dmg, as long as it's instant summor or 1 bar ability like necro spirit mender.

Dark deal is also not relaible as it can be easily inturepted, does not crit, does not get buffed by major sorcery/brutality, tool on your lower resourcs pool as if you focus on mag it uses stam, and well all know how precious stam pool is for mag toons.

Only proble AOE HOT for sorc is healing morph of negate, and even that is useless in pvp and have limited use in pve as the ulti cost 200.

Aedaryl · July 2019

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

show previous quotes

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

DD Sorcs won´t have any reliable source of healing after patch but potions, unless some Pvp builds with Resto staff.

Dark Deal, Dark Conversion?

You don't understand the reliable part.

A cast time healing skill isn't reliable. You need to cast 2 shields before dark exchange and guess what, it cost more than the magicka return it give.

And it will only work if you are versus bad players.

Dark Exchange is supposed to be the sorc sustain skill, be happy, with hardened ward nerfed, sorc will streak even more often since they cannot sustain while fighting anymore.

Low on sustain? Streak from Nikel to Sejanus so u can dark exchange the mana you just consumed!

This is funny no? Dark exchange was used to recover sorc from being mobile aka streaking away, now streaking away and dark exchange is used to sustain the fight you just give up before being OOM!

Sorc streaking away twice more often because sustain issue will cause people to complain more about streak

Then streak will be nerfed

jcm2606 · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Sorcs have a hot... surge... a burst heal... the deal. Tf are ppl bsing for?

Yep, Surge is totally going to be useful with 10-20% crit in non-CP, where we don't get the extra 9% from CP, nor do we get the extra crit damage from CP to offset crit resist to make building for crit feasible.

Yep, Dark Conversion is totally going to save me from dying with a 1.2 second cast time making it delayed, telegraphed, and interruptable.

The matriarch is the only reliable in-class burst heal for magsorc, ignoring the fact that it's easier to build for since we already stack max magicka for shields. But it requires you to sacrifice 2 skill slots which limits skill choice, and requires you to run Necropotence to push the heal up to acceptable levels which limits gear choice. Not to mention is killable, and summoning it has a cast time, making it just as bad as Dark Conversion if it dies. And it was just nerfed, too, so yeah.

EDIT: As far as I'm concerned, the pets should just be reworked entirely.

Make them only take a single slot, either on a timer (summon the pet for x seconds, and activate the pet again to do the special ability), or as a persistent summon as they are now (the game can keep track of skills on either bar at any time, Necro highlights corpses whenever you have an ability that can consume corpses slotted, even on your back bar).

Have each pet offer a clearly defined role in your kit; maybe make Unstable Familiar the damage pet, and Winged Twilight the utility/healing pet. It'll be easier to balance the pets this way, because you won't have to consider how much damage the pet deals in addition to the healing, when the pet is primarily used for the healing.

Only allow one pet at a time, force players to make the choice between damage or utility/healing. You shouldn't have a moderate DOT on top of a crazy burst heal.

Remove targeting with skills, make the pets unkillable, but allow the pets to be bashed to interrupt certain special abilities or maybe stop the passive damage/healing for a few seconds, as well as stunned to take them out of the fight entirely for a few seconds. The biggest issue I have with pets is how they screw with targeting, so just remove targeting with skills entirely, have enemy players interact with the pets through CC.

Peekachu99 · July 2019

universal_wrath wrote: »

I think the nerf to shield is not justifable, as sorc does not have a burst heal, shield is there only mean of surivival, and tried to wait for hots to heal them without pets.

Hardened ward is class exclusive ability and should not be same as other generic skill that is availabe to everyone, it should be better. I guess next time we skill a surpise attack for everyone... oh wait, i forgt about silver bullet. Turn evil is a superior version of fear...etc

Matriarch, Clannfear and Dark Exchange? What game are you playing cause it’s not ESO.

Just because they’re burst heals you don’t like doesn’t make them nonexistent.

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Peekachu99 wrote: »

show previous quotes

universal_wrath wrote: »

I think the nerf to shield is not justifable, as sorc does not have a burst heal, shield is there only mean of surivival, and tried to wait for hots to heal them without pets.

Hardened ward is class exclusive ability and should not be same as other generic skill that is availabe to everyone, it should be better. I guess next time we skill a surpise attack for everyone... oh wait, i forgt about silver bullet. Turn evil is a superior version of fear...etc

Matriarch, Clannfear and Dark Exchange? What game are you playing cause it’s not ESO.

Just because they’re burst heals you don’t like doesn’t make them nonexistent.

Do we really have to explain this over and over?

We want a GOOD heal, not mediocre ones. People complain not about the lack of heals, but the lack of proper ones. Every stamina class has one, most mag classes have one, i don´t understand why it´s so hard to understand. This answer might be the same as "im not doing enough DPS. Answer: hey, dont complain, you have skills that deal damage!!".

Matriach and Clanfear: both takes up TWO slots and after patch they wont add really DPS so waste of slot.
Dark Exchange isn´t even burst. Burst mean quickness. A 1,2 seconds channel heal, apart that losing DPS (you lose two GCDs instead of one), means that you may be interrutable. In pvp, that´s also telegraphied. Dark Exchange is only useful outside combat. Oh! and takes stamina which is VERY needed on magsorcs. Very.

To be honest, i already propose to change Dark Exchange to be instant, with some losing on the magicka regen part even. Take away the pet heals as magsorcs won´t play them anymore with the upcoming changes.

Aedaryl · July 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

show previous quotes

Peekachu99 wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

I think the nerf to shield is not justifable, as sorc does not have a burst heal, shield is there only mean of surivival, and tried to wait for hots to heal them without pets.

Hardened ward is class exclusive ability and should not be same as other generic skill that is availabe to everyone, it should be better. I guess next time we skill a surpise attack for everyone... oh wait, i forgt about silver bullet. Turn evil is a superior version of fear...etc

Matriarch, Clannfear and Dark Exchange? What game are you playing cause it’s not ESO.

Just because they’re burst heals you don’t like doesn’t make them nonexistent.

Do we really have to explain this over and over?

We want a GOOD heal, not mediocre ones. People complain not about the lack of heals, but the lack of proper ones. Every stamina class has one, most mag classes have one, i don´t understand why it´s so hard to understand. This answer might be the same as "im not doing enough DPS. Answer: hey, dont complain, you have skills that deal damage!!".

Matriach and Clanfear: both takes up TWO slots and after patch they wont add really DPS so waste of slot.
Dark Exchange isn´t even burst. Burst mean quickness. A 1,2 seconds channel heal, apart that losing DPS (you lose two GCDs instead of one), means that you may be interrutable. In pvp, that´s also telegraphied. Dark Exchange is only useful outside combat. Oh! and takes stamina which is VERY needed on magsorcs. Very.

To be honest, i already propose to change Dark Exchange to be instant, with some losing on the magicka regen part even. Take away the pet heals as magsorcs won´t play them anymore with the upcoming changes.

We don't need a good heal if mutagen/rapidregen is good enough.

What we need is a strong and not too much expensive shield.

Aedrion · July 2019

Magsorc on live is overpowered.

That's why I can't run a single day in Cyro without seeing them and their pets everywhere. Each death recap when I get blown up from 35 meters away is frags, curse and a whole line-up of magsorc skills.

Do they need a nerf? Hell yes.

But I won't deny - having played one myself- that magsorc walks a thin line between being too weak and being too strong.
My opinion is that the whole class needs a rework.

Streak isn't too strong.
Shields aren't too strong
Their burst isn't too strong.

But combine them all in one and you get an untouchable, super tanky, burst-bot that you pretty much can't kill or can't catch.

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Aedaryl wrote: »

We don't need a good heal if mutagen/rapidregen is good enough.

What we need is a strong and not too much expensive shield.

Strong and cheap shields would be great, indeed, along with some kind of hot for diff healing, but i doubt it will happen.

So i´d rather prefer a burst heal or hot. Mutagen is nice but that´s a resto staff skill, in PvE you wont use that ever unless you´re a healer.

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Aedrion wrote: »

Magsorc on live is overpowered.

That's why I can't run a single day in Cyro without seeing them and their pets everywhere. Each death recap when I get blown up from 35 meters away is frags, curse and a whole line-up of magsorc skills.

Do they need a nerf? Hell yes.

But I won't deny - having played one myself- that magsorc walks a thin line between being too weak and being too strong.
My opinion is that the whole class needs a rework.

Streak isn't too strong.
Shields aren't too strong
Their burst isn't too strong.

But combine them all in one and you get an untouchable, super tanky, burst-bot that you pretty much can't kill or can't catch.

The issue is Pve.There must be a way to nerf Sorcs in Pvp without compromising PvE. I agree that the class needs a rework. Good possitive criticism, wish there were more like yours.

Aedaryl · July 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

show previous quotes

Aedrion wrote: »

Magsorc on live is overpowered.

That's why I can't run a single day in Cyro without seeing them and their pets everywhere. Each death recap when I get blown up from 35 meters away is frags, curse and a whole line-up of magsorc skills.

Do they need a nerf? Hell yes.

But I won't deny - having played one myself- that magsorc walks a thin line between being too weak and being too strong.
My opinion is that the whole class needs a rework.

Streak isn't too strong.
Shields aren't too strong
Their burst isn't too strong.

But combine them all in one and you get an untouchable, super tanky, burst-bot that you pretty much can't kill or can't catch.

The issue is Pve.There must be a way to nerf Sorcs in Pvp without compromising PvE. I agree that the class needs a rework. Good possitive criticism, wish there were more like yours.

PvE sorc doesn't need healing.

Critical surge in PvE is a strong hot.

And harness Magicka is a sustainable shield reaching the cap in PvE.

Why would you need something more as a PvE DPS ?

Derra · July 2019

Aedrion wrote: »

Magsorc on live is overpowered.

That's why I can't run a single day in Cyro without seeing them and their pets everywhere. Each death recap when I get blown up from 35 meters away is frags, curse and a whole line-up of magsorc skills.

Do they need a nerf? Hell yes.

But I won't deny - having played one myself- that magsorc walks a thin line between being too weak and being too strong.
My opinion is that the whole class needs a rework.

Streak isn't too strong.
Shields aren't too strong
Their burst isn't too strong.

But combine them all in one and you get an untouchable, super tanky, burst-bot that you pretty much can't kill or can't catch.

Which is why anyone reasonable said before patch:
Rework pets.
Remove shieldstacking (at the very least rework harness sustain).

Now we get weaker more expensive shields which encourages more stacking.
We get useless pets instead of a rework.
We get massively buffed dots that already worked as a decent counter for shields on live.
We get massively buffed hots that the class does not synergise with.

And every sorc player that made reasonable suggestions on how to nerf sorcs in the areas the class was undeniably overperforming gets a heartattack bc the class gets zosed again.

Aedaryl · July 2019

Derra wrote: »

Which is why anyone reasonable said before patch:
Rework pets.
Remove shieldstacking.

Now we get weaker more expensive shields which encourages more stacking.
We get useless pets instead of a rework.
We get massively buffed dots that already worked as a decent counter for shields on live.
We get massively buffed hots that the class does not synergise with.

And every sorc player that made reasonable suggestions on how to nerf sorcs in the areas the class was undeniably overperforming gets a heartattack bc the class gets zosed again.

This so much.

I play pet sorc since 3 years and when pets got their LA affected by CP I was the first claiming that matriach was OP. At that time no one was trusting me because pets we completely unused.

That pet buff increased the matriach damage by about 30-35%.

What did ZoS?

They nerfed the damage synergy with All pets by 15% from deadric prey Elsweyr nerf.

That first nerf was stupid because half sorc was still using the non pet morph of curse.

ZoS nerfed the matriach damage this patch by 69%.

How can people think that's balanced?

Before 35% buff no one used matriach and no one used them.

How a 15% nerf followed by a 69% nerf can be even suggested as balanced? Guess what : healing matriarch is completely Dead, not worthing 2 slots at all.

People comment matriarch nerf as dumb haters saying "deserved it was OP".

How destroying a skill to 40% less damage than the times where no one used it because the damage was too weak is balance?

Malamar1229 · July 2019

Haters gonna hate
Baddies gonna bad
Taters gonna tate

Malamar1229 · July 2019

"Keep on, keeeeeppp on ZoSing"