Let's talk about the healing changes...

BahometZ · July 2019

I just hope these changes don't scare people away from healing in vet PvE content. We need people to want to take support roles. If it becomes more sweaty and stressful, why the *** would people do it?

I know these forums are fully of flexbois and PvP egos who happily say good riddance, and love to smack nubs with git gud memes but we need to maintain the playing population.

Fact is, some people will leave for whatever reason, we need others to step up. They won't if we and the game make it too hard and frustrating to do so. Think beyond your 6 man tower crew and your rusted on elite trial guild.

Sevalaricgirl · July 2019

I just changed my templar from magicka to stamina and my Breton vampire healer was my main healer. It's probably a good thing that all my friends except one left the game so now I have no reason to heal.

CipherNine · July 2019

The only healers that are supporting this patch are the delusional ones in this thread that dont really know the first thing about being a healer in this game. They just heal their easy mode 4 mans and then think they have the knowledge to say this patch isnt horrendous.

This patch will single handily kill the healer role. There is no reason to take a healer in any of the content. All the DDs need to do is slot vigor. Us healers are not needed at all anymore. The only reason for us being in a trial now is to just be a buff bot to throw out that 1 orb and spam combat prayer. Which i have no interest in being. So game isnt for me anymore

danara · July 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

As a healer that actually does the vet trials and hm's. It is so apparent of the people in this thread that don't and are acting like they know what they are talking about.

Just healing your 4 man dungeons doesn't mean anything. It doesn't make you knowledgeable on this subject. A blind monkey can heal 4 mans.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "healers are just used to sitting back and spamming healing springs" you are just showing your ignorance on the subject. we never just sit back and spam springs. We do when there are certain mechanics in the fight that REQUIRES us to do it. we have had no choice its how the devs designed the fights.

With these changes they took that away with no answer to deal with the mechanic they built springs around.

I would love to see a "blind monkey" heal some of the 4 man pugs I've been in. That would be comical to watch.

As to your second point - have you tried the new regeneration out to compensate for the changes to healing springs? 98% increase in healing looks nice - even with the shorter duration.

And tell me how the hell do i use Regeneration in a 12 Man party when it only heal one person at a time ?
This change is a nerf for pve (the skill was usefull in vAS, now i dont think you want to bother yourself with that), but a buff for pvp (especialy BG)

Do not mix everything

daemondamian · July 2019

Sir_Xalvador wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I didn't say it had no impact on the game. It does - and a negative one. It just doesn't affect me personally in the sense I'm going to build my character the way I want regardless. But I know plenty of other individuals who have been bullied into conforming. It makes the game less diverse - and as a result less interesting.

Bullied ? so...
1- How old are these individuals
2 - its bad when others feel bullied, behind a screen miles away from said person in their own home
3 - let me guess...they need a safe place

Cyber bullying is a real thing which has caused victims of it to even commit suicide, everyone should have the right to feel safe in their own home and to be able to play an online game without being bullied, harrased or insulted by other players.

Age is irrelevant. Bullying isn't something that should be made fun of - it's a topic to be treated seriously but from what you said - deriding and making fun of people for wanting to feel safe in their own homes, to play a game without being bullied and suggesting there is no such thing as cyber bullying to begin with it seems highly probably that you're a bully yourself as that is how a bully would operate.

LadyNalcarya · July 2019

[

BahometZ wrote: »

I just hope these changes don't scare people away from healing in vet PvE content. We need people to want to take support roles. If it becomes more sweaty and stressful, why the *** would people do it?

I know these forums are fully of flexbois and PvP egos who happily say good riddance, and love to smack nubs with git gud memes but we need to maintain the playing population.

Fact is, some people will leave for whatever reason, we need others to step up. They won't if we and the game make it too hard and frustrating to do so. Think beyond your 6 man tower crew and your rusted on elite trial guild.

Nope. Most of endgame healers are against the change, but people who have never set their foot in dlc trials seem to support it. Maybe they just think that non-optimized healing builds will be more viable because of that. Maybe their hatred towards anything related to "meta" blinds them... Doesn't matter, but at this point I'm pretty sure that people who defend nerfs do not even realize their potential impact on average players and progression guilds. I've been playing this game for a long time, and I remember the aftermath of Morrowind nerfs. Many progression guilds just died after that patch, simply because too many people quit raiding and they couldn't fill their rosters. It took 2 years for endgame community to recover, and I don't want to see another mass exodus.
One can argue that it's normal for mmos - someone leaves, someone joins, but it would still be a big hit for progression guilds, simply because you can't fill your raiding roster with lvl 10s who bought the game on summer sale. It takes a while to learn how to play it, level up, grind for gear, etc.
That being said, I'm glad that they will at least adjust orb synergy in the next pts iteration.

Seraphayel · July 2019

Always mentioning the Morrowind changes as an argument to refuse the upcoming changes, we survived it, didn’t we? And guess what, the playerbase even grew after that.

It will be the exact same this time, the “sky is falling“ mentality is way too dramatic and overshadows real criticism about the changes.

LadyNalcarya · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Always mentioning the Morrowind changes as an argument to refuse the upcoming changes, we survived it, didn’t we? And guess what, the playerbase even grew after that.

It will be the exact same this time, the “sky is falling“ mentality is way too dramatic and overshadows real criticism about the changes.

I really hope it will not be the same this time. Half of my friends list stopped logging in after that patch, and many guilds fell apart. You can hate meta all you want, but you can't claim that this situation is good for the health of the game.
And like I said, you cannot replace members of your progression group with people who just bought the game. Endgame community is already very small, and it would be unwise to demotivate players who want to join it. The gap between average and hardcore players in this game is already absurdly high, and I think that more people should be able to clear content, not less.

ElderWattsy · July 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

The only healers that are supporting this patch are the delusional ones in this thread that dont really know the first thing about being a healer in this game. They just heal their easy mode 4 mans and then think they have the knowledge to say this patch isnt horrendous.

This patch will single handily kill the healer role. There is no reason to take a healer in any of the content. All the DDs need to do is slot vigor. Us healers are not needed at all anymore. The only reason for us being in a trial now is to just be a buff bot to throw out that 1 orb and spam combat prayer. Which i have no interest in being. So game isnt for me anymore

Im in the exact same boat with your reasoning here, reviewing all the patch notes and others posts to, my main was a healer that i was working hard on to level champ points and gear but indeed game is not for me anymore to, ESO + cancelled and uninstalled never returning. peace out

CP5 · July 2019

The other day I got into a discussion with a guildie that is in favour of the changes, saying that springs spam was an unskilled type of healing and this would force healers to do more and this got me thinking of how many ways this is wrong.

Healing strings is one of the least modified skills in the game, only getting some visual updates for pvp and a cut on the magicka return. Every but of content in the game was made with the assumption that this skill exist and I don't think it's a good idea to have to go back and adjust everything to compensate for the changes. Even if they did all that would do is lower heal checks to the point that dps can heal themselves through them

Springs also fits the mobile nature of eso's gameplay, a weak long lasted heal had no place in most serious fights where a stronger short lived one is. And no, spamming a busy heal isn't the same since the power of the heal is often wasted on over healing and misses half of your raid.

As for spamming the skill, that's how the games combat works. Resources limit what you can do rather than cooldowns and being able to use the skill in different ways is part of what makes it a fun skill to use. You can spam in high damage passes, spread the heals out over a wide area or use it to mitigate some damage whole doing other useful things. This poor heal on pts is only worth the slot since there isn't a better alternative.

And for those of you who feel the change is fine, go into pts and record a trial run and share it with us.

iLLcrime · July 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

The only healers that are supporting this patch are the delusional ones in this thread that dont really know the first thing about being a healer in this game. They just heal their easy mode 4 mans and then think they have the knowledge to say this patch isnt horrendous.

This patch will single handily kill the healer role. There is no reason to take a healer in any of the content. All the DDs need to do is slot vigor. Us healers are not needed at all anymore. The only reason for us being in a trial now is to just be a buff bot to throw out that 1 orb and spam combat prayer. Which i have no interest in being. So game isnt for me anymore

^ This 100%

pod88kk · July 2019

If Zos have an end game vision & are genuinely trying to change how this game is played & how different roles are played I'd prefer to get one big patch & let us work on coming to grips with each roles new function.
Slightly changing how each class/role changes each patch ultimately affects each role anyway so these tiny changes every few months are really frustrating.

Instead of ripping of the band aid in one swoop you're doing it so painfully slow that we can feel each hair being plucked. How much more of this do you expect us to take.

Have a bit more respect for your players Zos, we're the ones paying the bills.

iLLcrime · July 2019

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

Sanguinor2 · July 2019

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

iLLcrime · July 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Sanguinor2 · July 2019

iLLcrime wrote: »

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

My mean side is saying its because None of the devs, with exception of Gilliam, has much if any experience with vet Trials so they dont see why those healing changes could be a Problem.

They are saying that they are making an ability Audit, but neither healing springs nor orbs have anything similar to them so I wouldnt know to which Standard they are balancing them.

But we can only speculate until they themselves share their reasons and logic behind those.

CipherNine · July 2019

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

It's simple really. It's all cause of PVP. This game has always been balanced around PVP and PvE is just left to where the chips fall. They think PvE will just adjust to whatever happens. It's always been that way. I'm sick and tired of us PvEer's getting the shaft for the sake of PvP. When us PvEers are the majority of the game.

I don't see how people can't see how obvious it is. They dont care about PvE. I mean come they gave the lead of the combat team to a PvP guy. What does that tell you? You think Brian Wheeler cares about PvE? He has shown he clearly doesn't.

Jhalin · July 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

As a healer that actually does the vet trials and hm's. It is so apparent of the people in this thread that don't and are acting like they know what they are talking about.

Just healing your 4 man dungeons doesn't mean anything. It doesn't make you knowledgeable on this subject. A blind monkey can heal 4 mans.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "healers are just used to sitting back and spamming healing springs" you are just showing your ignorance on the subject. we never just sit back and spam springs. We do when there are certain mechanics in the fight that REQUIRES us to do it. we have had no choice its how the devs designed the fights.

With these changes they took that away with no answer to deal with the mechanic they built springs around.

I would love to see a "blind monkey" heal some of the 4 man pugs I've been in. That would be comical to watch.

As to your second point - have you tried the new regeneration out to compensate for the changes to healing springs? 98% increase in healing looks nice - even with the shorter duration.

It goes from 4.6k and 2 GCDs to get Regen on the group, up to 10k and 4 GCDs to get Regen on a group. It takes too long and costs far too much

Well you may be right. I haven't tried it yet - and won't be able to try it until it goes live as I don't play on the PTS. So if you've actually used it I won't debate you - at least not until I have tried it out for myself. All I know is that it looks nice on paper.

But even if it does fail as an effective group HoT during times of intense AoE damage - it still looks nice as a quick and effective way to heal players who aren't positioned near or in front of the healer who need some quick healing - which is something I've been asking for for a long time on here. Healing pugs as a healer can be so miserable when you have group members scattered and running all over the place and I have enough gray hair.

But in respect to countering AoE damage - I'll abstain until I have tested this spell out for myself. Though in all honestly I don't see why it at least wouldn't outperform the earlier regeneration. But sometimes looks can be deceiving.

You don’t get to choose the target, so it’s not good for healing those out of group. Unless that changes, it’s not even good on paper unless you’re solo’ing a dungeon

Seraphayel · July 2019

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

Huyen · July 2019

Rely on orbs to get the dps needed to clear endgame content? Avoiding mechanics through burning stuff down you mean. Minmaxers will adapt, like us peasants do too.

Royaji · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

So two skills designed to heal a large group through a major healcheck are the most commonly used in trials where you are required to heal a large group through a major healcheck. Who would've thought...

This patch is very PvP centric and actually works pretty good for PvP. Wheeler is the former (and current) PvP lead. Put two and two together.

Jhalin · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

Did they bother to see WHEN that healing was happening?

Did they check it those skills were being used during vCR executes where it’s required? How about in HoF execute where it’s required? Or even in SO where it’s required?

Or did they just see “oopsie dur! Too popular, gotta nerf hyuck!” because that’s the impression I get from these stupid changes

Shortsighted, lacking thought, and with complete disregard for the actual mechanics of the game

Seraphayel · July 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

So two skills designed to heal a large group through a major healcheck are the most commonly used in trials where you are required to heal a large group through a major healcheck. Who would've thought...

This patch is very PvP centric and actually works pretty good for PvP. Wheeler is the former (and current) PvP lead. Put two and two together.

This is a straw man argument because real arguments are missing or some players are not capable of seeing the reason for the nerfs.

Before Wheeler was lead combat designer we just had PvE centric patches? Yeah? Oh no? Who would have thought. This “balancing solely because of PvE or PvP“ is such a flat argument that doesn’t work at all when you dare to take a more holistic look at the game.

And yes, two skills contributing for almost all the healing output is an issue and I find it hard to understand how some players don’t want to see something as obvious as this.

As I already said multiple times, there’s need to be compensation for usual non-healing classes for the changes and I’m missing that yet. I already have made a thread on how to change Mend Wounds to make it the new go to heal for groups. And I don’t like the emphasis put on Templar healing - but removing healing potential from Grand Healing and Orbs (and shoving it to other sources) is a good thing.

CipherNine · July 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

Did they bother to see WHEN that healing was happening?

Did they check it those skills were being used during vCR executes where it’s required? How about in HoF execute where it’s required? Or even in SO where it’s required?

Or did they just see “oopsie dur! Too popular, gotta nerf hyuck!” because that’s the impression I get from these stupid changes

Shortsighted, lacking thought, and with complete disregard for the actual mechanics of the game

No point in wasting your time explaining it. He clearly doesn't understand or know anything about endgame healing. Every single one of his posts have no solid arguments. All he ever says is completely baseless and just shows he doesnt heal Vet trials at all.

Its just "this patch is good, trust the devs. healing was just spamming 2 skills. blah blah blah" its things like that from him over and over again. Shown that time and time again. Not worth discussing it with him.

Royaji · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

So two skills designed to heal a large group through a major healcheck are the most commonly used in trials where you are required to heal a large group through a major healcheck. Who would've thought...

This patch is very PvP centric and actually works pretty good for PvP. Wheeler is the former (and current) PvP lead. Put two and two together.

And yes, two skills contributing for almost all the healing output is an issue and I find it hard to understand how some players don’t want to see something as obvious as this.

Yeah, AoE HoTs that heal the whole group contribute more than single target heals or one off heals... It is hard to understand.

RogueShark · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

So two skills designed to heal a large group through a major healcheck are the most commonly used in trials where you are required to heal a large group through a major healcheck. Who would've thought...

This patch is very PvP centric and actually works pretty good for PvP. Wheeler is the former (and current) PvP lead. Put two and two together.

This is a straw man argument because real arguments are missing or some players are not capable of seeing the reason for the nerfs.

Before Wheeler was lead combat designer we just had PvE centric patches? Yeah? Oh no? Who would have thought. This “balancing solely because of PvE or PvP“ is such a flat argument that doesn’t work at all when you dare to take a more holistic look at the game.

And yes, two skills contributing for almost all the healing output is an issue and I find it hard to understand how some players don’t want to see something as obvious as this.

What top healing abilities would you like to see from a current DK healer toolset to replace these?
A NB healer?
What should be top healing done for a sorc in these high AoE damage phases?

Seraphayel · July 2019

RogueShark wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

So two skills designed to heal a large group through a major healcheck are the most commonly used in trials where you are required to heal a large group through a major healcheck. Who would've thought...

This patch is very PvP centric and actually works pretty good for PvP. Wheeler is the former (and current) PvP lead. Put two and two together.

This is a straw man argument because real arguments are missing or some players are not capable of seeing the reason for the nerfs.

Before Wheeler was lead combat designer we just had PvE centric patches? Yeah? Oh no? Who would have thought. This “balancing solely because of PvE or PvP“ is such a flat argument that doesn’t work at all when you dare to take a more holistic look at the game.

And yes, two skills contributing for almost all the healing output is an issue and I find it hard to understand how some players don’t want to see something as obvious as this.

What top healing abilities would you like to see from a current DK healer toolset to replace these?
A NB healer?
What should be top healing done for a sorc in these high AoE damage phases?

DK: Eruption (I already criticized that they nerfed it without any reasoning), buffed up heals due to high Major Mending uptime
NB: mix of Path, Strife, Siphon
Sorc: Matriarch (they are lacking additional healing skills)

Again, I said non-healing classes need adjustments in that regard and I hope they’re coming next week or the week after. That’s why I made the thread about Mend Wounds (I am very open to hear opinions about my suggested changes if Springs/Orb changes to live) - check it out https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484426/mend-wounds-rework-this-skill-to-compensate-for-the-changes-made-to-grand-healing-necrotic-orb#latest .

To spice things up by redistributing healing power to tanks/DPS (if necessary) is still not bad in my opinion and even helps to reduce the incredible power creep we experienced between Summerset and Elsweyr (top DPS almost tripled within a year, that’s absolutely insane).

Besides others I find it good for future builds that Vigor, Ring of Preservation, healing/defensive sets and ultimates are now considered to be mandatory. Why even have all those stuff when it is barely used?

RogueShark · July 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

So two skills designed to heal a large group through a major healcheck are the most commonly used in trials where you are required to heal a large group through a major healcheck. Who would've thought...

This patch is very PvP centric and actually works pretty good for PvP. Wheeler is the former (and current) PvP lead. Put two and two together.

This is a straw man argument because real arguments are missing or some players are not capable of seeing the reason for the nerfs.

Before Wheeler was lead combat designer we just had PvE centric patches? Yeah? Oh no? Who would have thought. This “balancing solely because of PvE or PvP“ is such a flat argument that doesn’t work at all when you dare to take a more holistic look at the game.

And yes, two skills contributing for almost all the healing output is an issue and I find it hard to understand how some players don’t want to see something as obvious as this.

What top healing abilities would you like to see from a current DK healer toolset to replace these?
A NB healer?
What should be top healing done for a sorc in these high AoE damage phases?

DK: Eruption (I already criticized that they nerfed it without any reasoning), buffed up heals due to high Major Mending uptime
NB: mix of Path, Strife, Siphon
Sorc: Matriarch (they are lacking additional healing skills)

Again, I said non-healing classes need adjustments in that regard and I hope they’re coming next week or the week after. That’s why I made the thread about Mend Wounds (I am very open to hear opinions about my suggested changes if Springs/Orb changes to live) - check it out https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484426/mend-wounds-rework-this-skill-to-compensate-for-the-changes-made-to-grand-healing-necrotic-orb#latest .

To spice things up by redistributing healing power to tanks/DPS (if necessary) is still not bad in my opinion and even helps to reduce the incredible power creep we experienced between Summerset and Elsweyr (top DPS almost tripled within a year, that’s absolutely insane).

Besides others I find it good for future builds that Vigor, Ring of Preservation, healing/defensive sets and ultimates are now considered to be mandatory. Why even have all those stuff when it is barely used?

Hey good job, you can pick out garbage healing skills from these classes and try and pretend they're suitable.
Why am I not surprised you think a sorc's top healing done (that was the question) should be from a costly, 360 degree burst smart heal which hits two people?
I get the feeling you've never set foot in vet dlc hm trials. You sit here and advocate for changes that make healing more dumbed down, and before there is even a hint or mention from devs that other healers will be compensated for these changes.
They should not even consider making these changes live until sorcs, dks and nbs have the class tools to tackle them. Period. Because right now there's not even a mention about helping out other healing classes from the devs. There's no indication they will ever get appropriate tools.
But oh well, right? As long as you don't feel "pressured" into spamming orbs anymore.

Let's trade skills/sets that were never used for classes that will never be used for healing anymore instead.

LadyNalcarya · July 2019

@Seraphayel
May I ask something? Have you tried to heal vet dlc content, especially trial hardmodes?

Seraphayel · July 2019

RogueShark wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Did the healing changes get made because of "numbers" they've seen? Too much overhealing going on? I'd love to know what exactly made them think that these healing changes were the right ones and where they got these numbers from (PvE trials/dungeons, Overland stuff, BGs, Cyro..?).

We can only speculate why they made them.
But a lot of PvPers have been qquing About the healing Output of ballgroups with springs for example. I doubt it was because of Trials personally because all the Trials have been designed with this healing Output in mind. Take vCR execute for example. 6 People (not totally sure on the number) get a debuff that takes them to 20% Health and places a dot and 85% healing debuff on them, this includes the tank, and if People dont get healed to 100% the debuff wont go away and will eventually become unhealable. I dont think you can heal that without good healing over time.

That's why I'm curious. Is the overhealing numbers the issue? Is it the PvP numbers? I would like to know where they are coming from to try and understand the logic behind them.

Look at ESO Logs. Two heals contributing for almost all of the healing in trials (Grand Healing morphs / Energy Orb) - it has not much to do with PvP and solely blaming PvP for the changes is an easy answer to comfortably ignoring the problem that two healing skills are creating almost 100% of output in PvE.

So two skills designed to heal a large group through a major healcheck are the most commonly used in trials where you are required to heal a large group through a major healcheck. Who would've thought...

This patch is very PvP centric and actually works pretty good for PvP. Wheeler is the former (and current) PvP lead. Put two and two together.

This is a straw man argument because real arguments are missing or some players are not capable of seeing the reason for the nerfs.

Before Wheeler was lead combat designer we just had PvE centric patches? Yeah? Oh no? Who would have thought. This “balancing solely because of PvE or PvP“ is such a flat argument that doesn’t work at all when you dare to take a more holistic look at the game.

And yes, two skills contributing for almost all the healing output is an issue and I find it hard to understand how some players don’t want to see something as obvious as this.

What top healing abilities would you like to see from a current DK healer toolset to replace these?
A NB healer?
What should be top healing done for a sorc in these high AoE damage phases?

DK: Eruption (I already criticized that they nerfed it without any reasoning), buffed up heals due to high Major Mending uptime
NB: mix of Path, Strife, Siphon
Sorc: Matriarch (they are lacking additional healing skills)

Again, I said non-healing classes need adjustments in that regard and I hope they’re coming next week or the week after. That’s why I made the thread about Mend Wounds (I am very open to hear opinions about my suggested changes if Springs/Orb changes to live) - check it out https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484426/mend-wounds-rework-this-skill-to-compensate-for-the-changes-made-to-grand-healing-necrotic-orb#latest .

To spice things up by redistributing healing power to tanks/DPS (if necessary) is still not bad in my opinion and even helps to reduce the incredible power creep we experienced between Summerset and Elsweyr (top DPS almost tripled within a year, that’s absolutely insane).

Besides others I find it good for future builds that Vigor, Ring of Preservation, healing/defensive sets and ultimates are now considered to be mandatory. Why even have all those stuff when it is barely used?

Hey good job, you can pick out garbage healing skills from these classes and try and pretend they're suitable.
Why am I not surprised you think a sorc's top healing done (that was the question) should be from a costly, 360 degree burst smart heal which hits two people?
I get the feeling you've never set foot in vet dlc hm trials. You sit here and advocate for changes that make healing more dumbed down, and before there is even a hint or mention from devs that other healers will be compensated for these changes.
They should not even consider making these changes live until sorcs, dks and nbs have the class tools to tackle them. Period. Because right now there's not even a mention about helping out other healing classes from the devs. There's no indication they will ever get appropriate tools.
But oh well, right? As long as you don't feel "pressured" into spamming orbs anymore.

Let's trade skills/sets that were never used for classes that will never be used for healing anymore instead.

God, is it so difficult to comprehend what I am trying to say? How often do I say other classes need adjustments to their healing repertoire to compensate the changes... this is the first round of the PTS. They already changed their mind and will allow Orb to be synergized with more players.

Who knows yet what they will change next week or the week after due to the feedback? Yet you’re all just whining „NO DON‘T DO THIS KEEP IT AS IT IS!!!!“ without even trying to get behind the changes and advocate for anything besides the recent status quo. I’ve yet seen no (!) suggestion for other heals or changes to be made except “don’t change anything“.