Thank You for Allowing us to Buy our Max Undaunted/Psijic/etc on Alt Characters

Numerikuu · July 2019

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Wow people don't even realise it anymore when they get scammed.

The power of corporate grooming, at your service. That, and being in denial about the state of things. Not wanting to give up on or abandon something they've poured countless hours into, despite things rotting around them.

Julibomb wrote: »

ZoS has to make money somehow to be able to keep just the upkeep of the servers

That same old tired excuse? They raked in a motherload from microtransactions, but mainly crown crates. Where did that money go? Mostly into shareholder and CEO pockets. Meanwhile the servers rot--especially on EU and console--and the same several year old game breaking bugs exist. If they were doing as you say, why was Midyear Mayhem--a big pvp event for many--cancelled?

Going to the upkeep of the servers...

wolf486 · July 2019

Julibomb wrote: »

ZoS has to make money somehow to be able to keep just the upkeep of the servers, staff and profit (no body makes games like this for the love of it), this can not be a cheap business.

ESO easily has the worst servers of any game I've played, so tossing more money their way doesn't seem to work at improving things.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · July 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Not p2w at all. Hyperbolic is hyperbolic. It still requires you to unlock them on some sort of character. Convenience is awesome. Also people still have the option not to pay money for it. P2W = can only get it from the crown store. Like if there was sword I could buy that did obscene amount of damage and was only purchasable through the crown store. That is pay to win.

Pay to win dosnt mean it cant be aquired without paying sorry. You pay and get more power. Thats pay 2 win

So by your logic
Horse boost are p2w
Crown potion are p2w
Dlc are p2w since they come with set that give you power
Xp scroll are p2w since it make you gain power faster
Research scroll are p2w(face it its basicly research stoll for skill line)

I dont think those are p2w
The skill line arent either since you need to COMPLETE them and earn an ACHIEVEMENT in game to make your 2nd(possibly 18th) character on par with your 1rst
It make you pay to save time like the horse boost or the research scroll

To be p2w it would need either or a combination of the following

1.can be purchased regardless of your acomplishment in game
2.be better than any of the ingame alternative(like a speed 80 horse)
3.not being acheivable in game

If you still consider it p2w, well i cant help you

Dark_Lord_Kuro · July 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

It’s P2W and it’s stupidity to claim otherwise

Even by your shortsighted “must not be available in the game” standards, it’s P2W. There is absolutely no system in the game that allows someone to share questline progress across characters instantaneously.

If you could buy progress using ingame gold or achievement points (as it should be), then it wouldn’t be, but it isn’t, so it’s purely P2W

Faulgor wrote: »

The difference is whether you consider being able to pay to win already P2W, or only having to pay to win P2W.

This clearly falls into the first category. Still, curious what the price will be. 5k per skill line?

Do you also consider horse boost as p2w?

pdblake · July 2019

Not sure what the difference is between this and CP points being account wide myself.

Benzux · July 2019

I'm fine with most of these, but there's a couple of them that I don't think should be buyable. Namely, Soul Magic and Psijic Order. The reason is that they're tied to actual questlines - all the other ones are just a grind in one way or another (dailies for DB/TG, books for MG, Daedra/Undead for FG etc.), but these two have some ACTUAL content associated with them. Skipping grinding with Crowns? Yeah, that's fine, it's what the Skyshards are currently. But skipping entire questlines? Yeah no. What happens if you do buy the skill line? Does it skip the whole questline for you? How about the rewards for those quests? Heck, Soul Magic is tied to the Main Questline, and I doubt ZoS would be so dumb as to give you the option to skip it entirely.
If the crown store skill lines only give you the skill lines without skipping the actual content, then I'm kinda okay with it, but it still feels a little *** to be able to skip actual, non-grindy game content with the push of a button.
Overall, though, this was inevitable, but I didn't expect ZoS to roll it out this soon.

wishlist14 · July 2019

it's raining
Code 8

Lylith · July 2019

so, master weapons, vma weapons, trials armor, soon™, yes?

BomblePants · July 2019

Oh yeah ledgerman.... dude that is a real grindy one.... ugh....

Ufretin · July 2019

BennyButton wrote: »

Can't wait for the next skill line to be unnecessarily grindy!

I'm expecting something like this :
"Get ready for the new Dragon Guard skill line! Rank 10 can either be attained by completing 500 dragon hunt dailies or by purchasing it from the Crown Store."
Technically not p2w but very convenient

wolf486 · July 2019

pdblake wrote: »

Not sure what the difference is between this and CP points being account wide myself.

If it was the same, the skills/achievements would not cost anything. They would just be applied to your account/alts. I would support that, not another terrible monetization scheme

CleymenZero · July 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Not p2w at all. Hyperbolic is hyperbolic. It still requires you to unlock them on some sort of character. Convenience is awesome. Also people still have the option not to pay money for it. P2W = can only get it from the crown store. Like if there was sword I could buy that did obscene amount of damage and was only purchasable through the crown store. That is pay to win.

Pay to win dosnt mean it cant be aquired without paying sorry. You pay and get more power. Thats pay 2 win

But seriously, as a person who is not interested in paying for this at all I ask, what do you except time? You win nothing. It won't make you a better player, it won't carry you in a dungeon or in a trial. I don't see the p2w argument...

P2W would be if there were platinum colored weapons or tempers in the Crown store only that would boost your WD or SD by another 200. THAT'S p2w.

Pay 2 skip is not pay 2 win. It's something easily recognizable, I don't understand the people who cry foul.

It WOULD be dishonest if, while introducing these purchases, they would for example double the exp or work needed to complete a skill line.

wolf486 · July 2019

CleymenZero wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Not p2w at all. Hyperbolic is hyperbolic. It still requires you to unlock them on some sort of character. Convenience is awesome. Also people still have the option not to pay money for it. P2W = can only get it from the crown store. Like if there was sword I could buy that did obscene amount of damage and was only purchasable through the crown store. That is pay to win.

Pay to win dosnt mean it cant be aquired without paying sorry. You pay and get more power. Thats pay 2 win

But seriously, as a person who is not interested in paying for this at all I ask, what do you except time? You win nothing. It won't make you a better player, it won't carry you in a dungeon or in a trial. I don't see the p2w argument...

P2W would be if there were platinum colored weapons or tempers in the Crown store only that would boost your WD or SD by another 200. THAT'S p2w.

Pay 2 skip is not pay 2 win. It's something easily recognizable, I don't understand the people who cry foul.

It WOULD be dishonest if, while introducing these purchases, they would for example double the exp or work needed to complete a skill line.

I can buy outfits in BDO that have stat boosts. That doesn't make me a better player than someone who spends nothing. It's terrible monetization schemes. ESO does however have p2w/paywall mechanics in place

Kuramas9tails · July 2019

WTB crowns

Bealeb319 · July 2019

If they made skill lines like undaunted easier to grind this would not be an issue in the first place. Making a skill line take months to lvl than locking important skills deep within the skill line than selling the skill line for rl money is not the best solution they could have come up with to build a healthy game imo

Vercingetorix · July 2019

Great, now alts are slightly more viable with this change. Being able to buy the Cyrodiil skyshards and a max Mage/Psijic skill line is honestly enough to encourage folks to create new characters. I feel the other skill lines and skyshards are waste of money and be easily obtained through normal means so I won't buy them, but if others want to... well, it's their money.

Raammzzaa · July 2019

I concur, this is great! Thanks a lot, ZOS!

msalvia · July 2019

I can't wait to get into under 50 BGs with my baby toon with all the skills lines. It won't give me any competitive advantage to have all these skills that I could never, ever get on a toon that's this level.

Not P2W at all, everything is fine here. /s

For real, this is the first and only thing I would call P2W in this game. And I'm right.

yodased · July 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Not p2w at all. Hyperbolic is hyperbolic. It still requires you to unlock them on some sort of character. Convenience is awesome. Also people still have the option not to pay money for it. P2W = can only get it from the crown store. Like if there was sword I could buy that did obscene amount of damage and was only purchasable through the crown store. That is pay to win.

Pay to win dosnt mean it cant be aquired without paying sorry. You pay and get more power. Thats pay 2 win

That's literally the definition of pay to win.

You have to pay to obtain something that is not obtainable through non-payment means.

Every other transaction may be douchetastic and grimey, but you are not winning over those who didn't pay.

Vercingetorix · July 2019

msalvia wrote: »

I can't wait to get into under 50 BGs with my baby toon with all the skills lines. It won't give me any competitive advantage to have all these skills that I could never, ever get on a toon that's this level.

Not P2W at all, everything is fine here. /s

For real, this is the first and only thing I would call P2W in this game. And I'm right.

Everything is fine. If your goal is to have a temporary "advantage" in a sub-lv50 environment because you can't handle fully leveled opponents, that's a personal problem. Most folks power level their characters outside of PvP, especially Battlegrounds - you're not gaining anything with this change. Perhaps you should try leaving the kiddie pool and learn how to actually PvP.

CleymenZero · July 2019

wolf486 wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Not p2w at all. Hyperbolic is hyperbolic. It still requires you to unlock them on some sort of character. Convenience is awesome. Also people still have the option not to pay money for it. P2W = can only get it from the crown store. Like if there was sword I could buy that did obscene amount of damage and was only purchasable through the crown store. That is pay to win.

Pay to win dosnt mean it cant be aquired without paying sorry. You pay and get more power. Thats pay 2 win

But seriously, as a person who is not interested in paying for this at all I ask, what do you except time? You win nothing. It won't make you a better player, it won't carry you in a dungeon or in a trial. I don't see the p2w argument...

P2W would be if there were platinum colored weapons or tempers in the Crown store only that would boost your WD or SD by another 200. THAT'S p2w.

Pay 2 skip is not pay 2 win. It's something easily recognizable, I don't understand the people who cry foul.

It WOULD be dishonest if, while introducing these purchases, they would for example double the exp or work needed to complete a skill line.

I can buy outfits in BDO that have stat boosts. That doesn't make me a better player than someone who spends nothing. It's terrible monetization schemes. ESO does however have p2w/paywall mechanics in place

There are many definitions of p2w.

The concept of p2w is generally accepted as something that has to do with paying to get an advantage over others who wouldn't pay for this content.

The BDO example you provided is clear-cut p2w. It gives you an advantage. At equal skills, you have an advantage over him if you bought the outfit and he didn't. You paid not necessarily to win but to increase your chances of winning.

A game that locks meta sets behind new content is p2w BUT as it delivers new content, it falls under a grey area IMO.

A game that allows paying to unlock skill lines that otherwise require 3 to 6 hours to level (I've completed Mages Guild and Psijic 10 and 13 times) doesn't qualify as p2w. It is clearly "pay to skip" as you are taking a shortcut but it is not locked behind a paywall, it is locked behind a time and effort constraint. I don't mind people that don't want to level the skill line paying to level it, I'll keep my money and spend elsewhere.

lokulin · July 2019

CleymenZero wrote: »

wolf486 wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Not p2w at all. Hyperbolic is hyperbolic. It still requires you to unlock them on some sort of character. Convenience is awesome. Also people still have the option not to pay money for it. P2W = can only get it from the crown store. Like if there was sword I could buy that did obscene amount of damage and was only purchasable through the crown store. That is pay to win.

Pay to win dosnt mean it cant be aquired without paying sorry. You pay and get more power. Thats pay 2 win

But seriously, as a person who is not interested in paying for this at all I ask, what do you except time? You win nothing. It won't make you a better player, it won't carry you in a dungeon or in a trial. I don't see the p2w argument...

P2W would be if there were platinum colored weapons or tempers in the Crown store only that would boost your WD or SD by another 200. THAT'S p2w.

Pay 2 skip is not pay 2 win. It's something easily recognizable, I don't understand the people who cry foul.

It WOULD be dishonest if, while introducing these purchases, they would for example double the exp or work needed to complete a skill line.

I can buy outfits in BDO that have stat boosts. That doesn't make me a better player than someone who spends nothing. It's terrible monetization schemes. ESO does however have p2w/paywall mechanics in place

There are many definitions of p2w.

The concept of p2w is generally accepted as something that has to do with paying to get an advantage over others who wouldn't pay for this content.

The BDO example you provided is clear-cut p2w. It gives you an advantage. At equal skills, you have an advantage over him if you bought the outfit and he didn't. You paid not necessarily to win but to increase your chances of winning.

A game that locks meta sets behind new content is p2w BUT as it delivers new content, it falls under a grey area IMO.

A game that allows paying to unlock skill lines that otherwise require 3 to 6 hours to level (I've completed Mages Guild and Psijic 10 and 13 times) doesn't qualify as p2w. It is clearly "pay to skip" as you are taking a shortcut but it is not locked behind a paywall, it is locked behind a time and effort constraint. I don't mind people that don't want to level the skill line paying to level it, I'll keep my money and spend elsewhere.

Charging for skill lines might not be p2w but in some ways it is more insidious. It is more a play on fear or missing out (FOMO). Every time they change the game balance a new class combo becomes the meta. Some people feel like if they don't have the meta class they will miss out on getting spots in raids and pvp groups. ZOS is already using this FOMO trick to squeeze more cash out of people with limited time crates and cosmetics. In the end, a narrow focus on whether something is p2w or not just lets companies like ZOS get away with other somewhat dubious marketing practices.

Sure, people don't "have" to pay for any of this, but in my opinion ZOS is skirting awfully close to a line that crosses in to really taking advantage of some vulnerable people in our communities. Whether it is p2w or not is irrelevant in this context. Arguably Fortnite is not p2w in anyway but the fortnite cash shop and battlepass is horribly manipulative.

It seems like ZOS, like most other gaming companies, are taking a leaf out of Epics play book.

There are so many cool games on the horizon but more and more I feel like they are going to be ruined by this current obsession by gaming companies to monetize every aspect of the game through micro-transactions. To me, it really saps any enjoyment out of the game in the end.

Starlock · July 2019

No, no thank you.

This was sadly predictable as the developers have incrementally added pay-to-win elements to their cash shop for years. After they added skyshards, I saw the writing on the wall. It was obvious the direction they were going in. I'm not... I need to think about whether or not I want to continue supporting and playing this game at this point. You can now, officially, start a 1st level character and pay to have them behave like a much higher level character. That's a problem. And for those who don't see that, you've been successfully conned by manipulative marketing strategies. It was, probably, their plan all along. Incrementally add pay-to-win so the frog in the pot of water being brought to a boil doesn't notice.

No, Zeminax. We notice. And shame on you for not taking the high road.

Iluvrien · July 2019

CleymenZero wrote: »

It WOULD be dishonest if, while introducing these purchases, they would for example double the exp or work needed to complete a skill line.

What are you talking about?

They did double the exp or work needed to complete the skill line. They doubled it when the released the skill line in the first place. Take the pre/post Glass motifs as an example.

Before glass, motifs were available as books. All the elements for one style in a single object. They couldn't easily pitch a Crown Store purchase against that: A book vs. a book. Who would buy it? But by breaking the motif down into chapters that were, at that time, only available through a double RNG system (fragments, then combination) they made the book that they released into the Crown Store later look like an obvious time saver.

Summerset is a year old. Given planning and implementation time for skill lines in the Crown Store... my bet is that the reason that the Psijic skill line was released in the form that it current holds is because they intended to sell it on the Crown Store. They don't need to do a post-release doubling of the work required, because they baked it in from the beginning. Knowing full well what the eventual goal would be. Further Crown Store monetization.

bearbelly · July 2019

People kinda act like this is the only game to ever do this kind of thing. It's becoming the Norm for the industry; just like loot crates.

SWTOR has been doing stuff like this for a long time. You don't even need to earn things on one character before you have the option unlocked.
You can buy the game then jump right into the in-game store and buy all the max-level characters you want.
(Edit: more precisely, "coupons" allowing you to insta-level existing characters; you need an existing character to apply a "coupon" to [I forget what they're called now]).

Of course, you'll still need to learn how to actually play the game; all you're doing is buying a pass on the leveling process.

Delparis · July 2019

Another BS post

Jhalin · July 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

It’s P2W and it’s stupidity to claim otherwise

Even by your shortsighted “must not be available in the game” standards, it’s P2W. There is absolutely no system in the game that allows someone to share questline progress across characters instantaneously.

If you could buy progress using ingame gold or achievement points (as it should be), then it wouldn’t be, but it isn’t, so it’s purely P2W

Faulgor wrote: »

The difference is whether you consider being able to pay to win already P2W, or only having to pay to win P2W.

This clearly falls into the first category. Still, curious what the price will be. 5k per skill line?

Do you also consider horse boost as p2w?

Does your character gain power when their horse runs at 60% speed? There’s your answer

But you character does get a hell of a lot stronger when you buy 100+ skill points and the maxed out skill lines to sink them right after character creation.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2019

This... This actally falls kinda into P2W territory... since you buy something that you otherwise would have to grind. What is next ? Insta level 50 upgrade ?!

Also, what worries me, is it will ecaueage ZOS to do another new skill lines grinding in a "Psijic Order" style, to be as annoying and painfull as pisible. This also looks like one of those "introduce a problem, and then sell a solution for it" BS trend that gaming industry has developed...

Alpharos7 · July 2019

As a console player, maxing out the Mages Guild skill line is arguably the worst grind ever, I have only managed to max it on one of my characters, so I am delighted I'll be able to buy it.

Its not pay to win, its pay for convienience. Simple.

Uviryth · July 2019

If anyone wants that, more power to them. I actually like doing the Questlines.
And PvP you only need Rank6 and that you can do by doing Battlegrounds for 3 hours.
What I´seriously considering is Undaunted, because that one takes sooooo long.