A request for ZOS to review Pirate Skeleton

leepalmer95 · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

There are other sources of Major Protection that are even more reliable than this set. Why are so many people hellbent on nerfing it? If it is so good, why aren't YOU using it?

I am, its Op.

Emma_Overload · July 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

There are other sources of Major Protection that are even more reliable than this set. Why are so many people hellbent on nerfing it? If it is so good, why aren't YOU using it?

I am, its Op.

I tested it in intense PvP combat. I was getting an average of 60% uptime. Do you think that is overpowered? What kind of uptime are you getting?

I decided it wasn't reliable enough for my purposes, so it's not the end of the world for me if they nerf it. It just bugs me that every patch they make it harder for the masses to get Major Protection.

leepalmer95 · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

There are other sources of Major Protection that are even more reliable than this set. Why are so many people hellbent on nerfing it? If it is so good, why aren't YOU using it?

I am, its Op.

I tested it in intense PvP combat. I was getting an average of 60% uptime. Do you think that is overpowered? What kind of uptime are you getting?

I decided it wasn't reliable enough for my purposes, so it's not the end of the world for me if they nerf it. It just bugs me that every patch they make it harder for the masses to get Major Protection.

More than 60% it feels, half the time it goes off cooldown with the amount of dots I get on me.

Slowbromance · July 2019

If a change does happen I just want the minor defile so it'll still boost healing done on my Necromancer healer. That's all I care about really. The major protection is just a nice benefit.

wheem_ESO · July 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

There are other sources of Major Protection that are even more reliable than this set. Why are so many people hellbent on nerfing it? If it is so good, why aren't YOU using it?

I am, its Op.

Which classes, roles, and "types" of PvP are you typically doing? (ie, Battlegrounds vs no-CP Cyrodiil vs CP-Cyrodiil. Playing solo or with coordinated groups, etc...)

When solo queueing high MMR Battlegrounds on a Magicka Warden, it kinda feels like Pirate Skeleton is a requirement. I've played around without it on a number of occasions, but it was too much like being a really gimpy Mag Sorc; mobility is much too limited (especially when not in a coordinated group that will help your "Spiderman Vine" with their positioning) for what survivability you have available.

ChunkyCat · July 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

There are other sources of Major Protection that are even more reliable than this set. Why are so many people hellbent on nerfing it? If it is so good, why aren't YOU using it?

I am, its Op.

I tested it in intense PvP combat. I was getting an average of 60% uptime. Do you think that is overpowered? What kind of uptime are you getting?

I decided it wasn't reliable enough for my purposes, so it's not the end of the world for me if they nerf it. It just bugs me that every patch they make it harder for the masses to get Major Protection.

More than 60% it feels

Very scientific study.

How can anyone disagree?

Trian94 · July 2019

Pirate skeleton needs a nuclear nerf. It's overperforming to the point it makes up for skill

React · July 2019

Minno wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Eh just apply major defile plus minor and they cant heal. They are pretty easy to take down at that point.

Good thinking, I'll just slot Reverb Bash and Incap Strike! Oh wait...

maybe you all should stop running tank builds like a bunch of EU copycats and maybe you will be able to kill something lol.

You're a magplar main, no? The two most problematic classes with pirate skeleton on are magplar and magnb. Magnb because of the mitigation stacking, and magplar because of the ability to turtle heal damage endlessly. I get that on magplar, wearing skele has a noticeable affect on your healing. This causes you to spend more time defensive, basically encouraging a playstyle that makes you appear as if you are a useless tank. This is a playstyle that is far too prevalent in ESO, and nerfing pirate is just the first of many steps that need to be taken in order to reduce the TTK in PvP.

Take it from a player who runs double damage sets on EVERY class in the game, playing solo or in small groups only. The set is broken. It's a carry. Anyone saying otherwise either doesn't understand the game, or is lying through their teeth to protect the thing that carries them. Imagine how much people would cry I'd there was a 2pc set that provided the same uptime on major berserk, which proc'd off dealing damage.

Players in this game just seem to generally prefer not dieing to being able to kill things, I really don't understand it.

templesus · July 2019

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Minno · July 2019

Liam12548 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Eh just apply major defile plus minor and they cant heal. They are pretty easy to take down at that point.

Good thinking, I'll just slot Reverb Bash and Incap Strike! Oh wait...

maybe you all should stop running tank builds like a bunch of EU copycats and maybe you will be able to kill something lol.

You're a magplar main, no? The two most problematic classes with pirate skeleton on are magplar and magnb. Magnb because of the mitigation stacking, and magplar because of the ability to turtle heal damage endlessly. I get that on magplar, wearing skele has a noticeable affect on your healing. This causes you to spend more time defensive, basically encouraging a playstyle that makes you appear as if you are a useless tank. This is a playstyle that is far too prevalent in ESO, and nerfing pirate is just the first of many steps that need to be taken in order to reduce the TTK in PvP.

Take it from a player who runs double damage sets on EVERY class in the game, playing solo or in small groups only. The set is broken. It's a carry. Anyone saying otherwise either doesn't understand the game, or is lying through their teeth to protect the thing that carries them. Imagine how much people would cry I'd there was a 2pc set that provided the same uptime on major berserk, which proc'd off dealing damage.

Players in this game just seem to generally prefer not dieing to being able to kill things, I really don't understand it.

Problem is you can't tell when it's up due to the costume hiding everyone does. I played without costumes and was very noticably pressured outside of the proc. If a magplar is always low health, they are bol till full and thus out of resorces.

The other issue is block is overperforming, and that your example left out the DK who has better self healing and conviently stacked 50%*46% block Mitigation. I've seen them go 0-100 more than a Templar lol.

Emma_Overload · July 2019

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Trian94 · July 2019

"Dk has better self healing than magplar."
L
M
A
O

Emma_Overload · July 2019

Liam12548 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Eh just apply major defile plus minor and they cant heal. They are pretty easy to take down at that point.

Good thinking, I'll just slot Reverb Bash and Incap Strike! Oh wait...

maybe you all should stop running tank builds like a bunch of EU copycats and maybe you will be able to kill something lol.

You're a magplar main, no? The two most problematic classes with pirate skeleton on are magplar and magnb. Magnb because of the mitigation stacking, and magplar because of the ability to turtle heal damage endlessly. I get that on magplar, wearing skele has a noticeable affect on your healing. This causes you to spend more time defensive, basically encouraging a playstyle that makes you appear as if you are a useless tank. This is a playstyle that is far too prevalent in ESO, and nerfing pirate is just the first of many steps that need to be taken in order to reduce the TTK in PvP.

Take it from a player who runs double damage sets on EVERY class in the game, playing solo or in small groups only. The set is broken. It's a carry. Anyone saying otherwise either doesn't understand the game, or is lying through their teeth to protect the thing that carries them. Imagine how much people would cry I'd there was a 2pc set that provided the same uptime on major berserk, which proc'd off dealing damage.

Players in this game just seem to generally prefer not dieing to being able to kill things, I really don't understand it.

I think you're on to something. My guess is that ESO's toxic PvP culture is a big part of the problem. Get rid of the "exposing", the trash talking and the tea-bagging, and you might see people loosen up their builds a bit. Imperial City is even worse for this, though. I play a lot in the Imperial City where players are afraid of losing Tel Var, and it seems like everyone and their mother has some immortal gimmick build!

templesus · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Major protection from any source is broken. There exists only one source of Major Protection’s counter in the game, Major Vulnerability, and it lies behind a pay wall and 225 ultimate. This is not what you call balance, every source of Major Protection should have exactly one counter source of Vulnerability and vice versa. The reason it’s EXTREMELY broken on pirate is the high uptime as well as the fact that you are only sacrificing a 2pc, not an entire 5pc set.

The 3k of each resistances is icing on the cake.

LeHarrt91 · July 2019

Agree, you can wear 2 damage sets and then just use this monster set, without sacrificing much.

React · July 2019

Minno wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Eh just apply major defile plus minor and they cant heal. They are pretty easy to take down at that point.

Good thinking, I'll just slot Reverb Bash and Incap Strike! Oh wait...

maybe you all should stop running tank builds like a bunch of EU copycats and maybe you will be able to kill something lol.

You're a magplar main, no? The two most problematic classes with pirate skeleton on are magplar and magnb. Magnb because of the mitigation stacking, and magplar because of the ability to turtle heal damage endlessly. I get that on magplar, wearing skele has a noticeable affect on your healing. This causes you to spend more time defensive, basically encouraging a playstyle that makes you appear as if you are a useless tank. This is a playstyle that is far too prevalent in ESO, and nerfing pirate is just the first of many steps that need to be taken in order to reduce the TTK in PvP.

Take it from a player who runs double damage sets on EVERY class in the game, playing solo or in small groups only. The set is broken. It's a carry. Anyone saying otherwise either doesn't understand the game, or is lying through their teeth to protect the thing that carries them. Imagine how much people would cry I'd there was a 2pc set that provided the same uptime on major berserk, which proc'd off dealing damage.

Players in this game just seem to generally prefer not dieing to being able to kill things, I really don't understand it.

Problem is you can't tell when it's up due to the costume hiding everyone does. I played without costumes and was very noticably pressured outside of the proc. If a magplar is always low health, they are bol till full and thus out of resorces.

The other issue is block is overperforming, and that your example left out the DK who has better self healing and conviently stacked 50%*46% block Mitigation. I've seen them go 0-100 more than a Templar lol.

Block is a huge part of the mitigation/survival issues present too, but it is one separate from pirate skeleton. The fact is that while the hiding of the proc DOES need to be fixed, a 3 second downtime on that much mitigation is not sufficient enough for adequate counter play (especially when you consider the many on demand counters to this downtime the skeleton user can utilize such as blocking, mist forming, using an immov, etc). Setting up to burst during the downtime against a user NOT utilizing the hiding options is often not enough to secure a kill, even against average or below average skill players. Often the only way to kill pirate users is to run them out of one resource or another, which takes time and consistent pressure that are just not available in an outnumbered scenario.

I didnt leave DK healing out of my example, I just didnt mention it as most DK's run bloodspawn (and DK is perhaps the only class that has enough reasons to actually use BS over skele). DKs are more problematic when it comes to blocking like you said, as blocking enables them to survive most damage while their multiple burst heals (cauterize and dragons blood on mag) or their HOTs (vigor, rally, lingering pots, etc) take their health back up to full.

Lord-Otto · July 2019

templesus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Major protection from any source is broken. There exists only one source of Major Protection’s counter in the game, Major Vulnerability, and it lies behind a pay wall and 225 ultimate. This is not what you call balance, every source of Major Protection should have exactly one counter source of Vulnerability and vice versa. The reason it’s EXTREMELY broken on pirate is the high uptime as well as the fact that you are only sacrificing a 2pc, not an entire 5pc set.

The 3k of each resistances is icing on the cake.

That's why the Minor Defile is there.

Trian94 · July 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Major protection from any source is broken. There exists only one source of Major Protection’s counter in the game, Major Vulnerability, and it lies behind a pay wall and 225 ultimate. This is not what you call balance, every source of Major Protection should have exactly one counter source of Vulnerability and vice versa. The reason it’s EXTREMELY broken on pirate is the high uptime as well as the fact that you are only sacrificing a 2pc, not an entire 5pc set.

The 3k of each resistances is icing on the cake.

That's why the Minor Defile is there.

Are you that clueless Otto? Minor defile can be bypassed with cp and major mending/vitality which you can get super easily. Also a class with good healing abilities and minor mending (aka magplar) can ignore the minor defile. Not even gonna talk about magblades.

templesus · July 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Major protection from any source is broken. There exists only one source of Major Protection’s counter in the game, Major Vulnerability, and it lies behind a pay wall and 225 ultimate. This is not what you call balance, every source of Major Protection should have exactly one counter source of Vulnerability and vice versa. The reason it’s EXTREMELY broken on pirate is the high uptime as well as the fact that you are only sacrificing a 2pc, not an entire 5pc set.

The 3k of each resistances is icing on the cake.

That's why the Minor Defile is there.

Huh? I’ve been playing Magcro lately, and I’ve never had the minor defile proc. Wonder why that is.

wheem_ESO · July 2019

Trian94 wrote: »

"Dk has better self healing than magplar."
L
M
A
O

You can laugh if you want, but he's really not wrong. Even the not-very-good DKs I've been seeing in low/mid MMR ranges on my Magicka Necromancer have some really ridiculous self healing, going from the verge of death to full HP repeatedly, and with fairly minimal GCD usage.

And when it comes to hiding the Pirate Skeleton animation/graphic - I'd agree that it shouldn't be possible...as long as they fix the issues with bar swapping that not hiding it seems to cause.

templesus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Major protection from any source is broken. There exists only one source of Major Protection’s counter in the game, Major Vulnerability, and it lies behind a pay wall and 225 ultimate. This is not what you call balance, every source of Major Protection should have exactly one counter source of Vulnerability and vice versa. The reason it’s EXTREMELY broken on pirate is the high uptime as well as the fact that you are only sacrificing a 2pc, not an entire 5pc set.

The 3k of each resistances is icing on the cake.

That's why the Minor Defile is there.

Huh? I’ve been playing Magcro lately, and I’ve never had the minor defile proc. Wonder why that is.

The Minor Defile procs every time the Major Protection does, even on a Magicka Necromancer. It will overwrite the Minor Defile that triggers from Render Flesh, and prevent it from reapplying as long as the Pirate Skeleton proc is in effect. This matters somewhat if you're trying to use the Necromancer cleanse, as it can't remove the Minor Defile from Pirate Skeleton, but can remove the one from Render Flesh.

jediodyn_ESO · July 2019

How did this set escape the changes?

Even the person leaking the notes was literally laughing at the Devs for missing this.

This set is so ridiculous when stacked with other defensive bonuses and anyone trying to defend it is just trying to defend their broken play style.

I use it on my mag Templar btw and it’s freaking ridiculously awesome. Too awesome, sadly.

NBrookus · July 2019

Trian94 wrote: »

"Dk has better self healing than magplar."
L
M
A
O

I mostly play magplar and magDK and I'd agree. My magplar has never gotten a major mending 10k embers tick while I'm actively attacking, right after fat powerlash tick. And DK has an on-demand burst heal, and aoe heal and a strong hybrid dot/direct heal. But then my magplars rarely die to dots and bleeds unless they are just overwhelming and I run OOM.

If Living Dark goes live as-is, magplar may take the top again.

brandonv516 · July 2019

This set is fine as is.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

There are other sources of Major Protection that are even more reliable than this set. Why are so many people hellbent on nerfing it? If it is so good, why aren't YOU using it?

Bout to quit. These dev's won't make these ppl l2p. They will be unhappy and quit no matter what the dev's do

Rake · July 2019

buff it in duration then delete it from game

Lord-Otto · July 2019

Trian94 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Major protection from any source is broken. There exists only one source of Major Protection’s counter in the game, Major Vulnerability, and it lies behind a pay wall and 225 ultimate. This is not what you call balance, every source of Major Protection should have exactly one counter source of Vulnerability and vice versa. The reason it’s EXTREMELY broken on pirate is the high uptime as well as the fact that you are only sacrificing a 2pc, not an entire 5pc set.

The 3k of each resistances is icing on the cake.

That's why the Minor Defile is there.

Are you that clueless Otto? Minor defile can be bypassed with cp and major mending/vitality which you can get super easily. Also a class with good healing abilities and minor mending (aka magplar) can ignore the minor defile. Not even gonna talk about magblades.

You can not bypass Minor Defile with CP. You can only pump your healing so it's sufficient enough, but it is still weaker than without the defile.
Major Mending and Vitality are not easy to come by for every class. And again, your healing is even better without the defile on you when you have vitality and mending up.
No, I'm not clueless. I'm pointing out the flawed details in your argumentation you'd like to sweep under the rug.

Amdar_Godkiller · July 2019

Really major protection just needs to be nerfed. It's too OP at 30%. Major + Minor protection with just 13000 resistances provides more mitigation than being at the 33K cap, and most of the mitigation is penetration-immune.

The solution to this issue involves some of the following:

A. Reduce the values of Protection buffs from 30%/8% to 15%/10% (Major/Minor). All classes have access to minor through FG and Psijic I believe, so this allows all classes to have some access to a stronger mitigation buff, while decreasing the effectiveness of Major Protection in PVP to a more reasonable level. Stacking them will still be strong, but individually, the buffs will no longer be so crazily OP.

B. Cause bleeds to be increased by Damage shield HP or have them scale inversely with all non-resistance based mitigation besides CP (so physical resistance will reduce bleed damage, as will hardy and thick-skinned, but major/minor protection and set buffs to mitigation like Reactive will increase bleed damage multiplicatively).

C. Stop giving sets easier access to major protection. The purge set is the real ridiculous one, and even though I've already gilded 2 weapons of this set because of how strong it is, but I still think the set needs some "adjustment". And that set that once resurrected, but now provides Major Protection in execute range is another bad idea. Stacking that with Vampire passives and pariah plus troll king is the kind of PVP Aids we need to avoid.

D. Make it so that penetration doesn't just reduce resistance-based mitigation, but total mitigation, effectively converting all flat penetration to percentage pen.

Amdar_Godkiller · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I also wear it on everything, and can confirm, this set needs to be outright removed from the game it’s so broken.

Wait... is the SET broken, or is Major Protection broken? Because nerfing this set just to leave Major Protection in the hands of a few favored builds doesn't seem like a very good or balanced solution.

What if Major Protection was only 20%, would this set still be a problem?

Yes

brandonv516 · July 2019

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Really major protection just needs to be nerfed. It's too OP at 30%. Major + Minor protection with just 13000 resistances provides more mitigation than being at the 33K cap, and most of the mitigation is penetration-immune.

The solution to this issue involves some of the following:

A. Reduce the values of Protection buffs from 30%/8% to 15%/10% (Major/Minor). All classes have access to minor through FG and Psijic I believe, so this allows all classes to have some access to a stronger mitigation buff, while decreasing the effectiveness of Major Protection in PVP to a more reasonable level. Stacking them will still be strong, but individually, the buffs will no longer be so crazily OP.

B. Cause bleeds to be increased by Damage shield HP or have them inversely with all non-resistance based mitigation besides CP (so physical resistance will reduce bleed damage, as will hardy and thick-skinned, but major/minor protection and set buffs to mitigation like Reactive will increase bleed damage multiplicatively).

C. Stop giving sets easier access to major protection. The purge set is the real ridiculous one, and even though I've already gilded 2 weapons of this set because of how strong it is, but I still think the set needs some "adjustment". And that set that once resurrected, but now provides Major Protection in execute range is another bad idea. Stacking that with Vampire passives and pariah plus troll king is the kind of PVP Aids we need to avoid.

D. Make it so that penetration doesn't just reduce resistance-based mitigation, but total mitigation, effectively converting all flat penetration to percentage pen.

Vampire + Troll King is redundant.

Amdar_Godkiller · July 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Really major protection just needs to be nerfed. It's too OP at 30%. Major + Minor protection with just 13000 resistances provides more mitigation than being at the 33K cap, and most of the mitigation is penetration-immune.

The solution to this issue involves some of the following:

A. Reduce the values of Protection buffs from 30%/8% to 15%/10% (Major/Minor). All classes have access to minor through FG and Psijic I believe, so this allows all classes to have some access to a stronger mitigation buff, while decreasing the effectiveness of Major Protection in PVP to a more reasonable level. Stacking them will still be strong, but individually, the buffs will no longer be so crazily OP.

B. Cause bleeds to be increased by Damage shield HP or have them inversely with all non-resistance based mitigation besides CP (so physical resistance will reduce bleed damage, as will hardy and thick-skinned, but major/minor protection and set buffs to mitigation like Reactive will increase bleed damage multiplicatively).

C. Stop giving sets easier access to major protection. The purge set is the real ridiculous one, and even though I've already gilded 2 weapons of this set because of how strong it is, but I still think the set needs some "adjustment". And that set that once resurrected, but now provides Major Protection in execute range is another bad idea. Stacking that with Vampire passives and pariah plus troll king is the kind of PVP Aids we need to avoid.

D. Make it so that penetration doesn't just reduce resistance-based mitigation, but total mitigation, effectively converting all flat penetration to percentage pen.

Vampire + Troll King is redundant.

Good point. then switch for earthgore or whatever healing monster set is best currently when you are low health