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A thought about vampirism
TumlinTheJolly
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Currently (gameplay-wise) if you want to be a vamp, you get turned, ramp up to stage 4 and then forget about it. There is no real point in feeding... Most players go stage 4 or just get cured.
What if it were the other way around? Should vamps gain more vampy powers the more they feed? This would make vamp feel a whole lot more vampy to play.
Yes, you currently take less fire damage from feeding... but if you're doing that you'd may as well just get fully cured.
Edit: As people have pointed out, this could also be a way of fitting vamp into the justice system. It may also mean that you wouldn't feel the need to cover up the ugliness with a skin.
Edited by TumlinTheJolly on July 9, 2019 12:31PM What if it were the other way around? Should vamps gain more vampy powers the more they feed? This would make vamp feel a whole lot more vampy to play.
Yes, you currently take less fire damage from feeding... but if you're doing that you'd may as well just get fully cured.
Edit: As people have pointed out, this could also be a way of fitting vamp into the justice system. It may also mean that you wouldn't feel the need to cover up the ugliness with a skin.
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xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sounds like RP than actual utility change...big deal go feed every day once to keep stage 4 up and go hunger games to dry out...the only issue is that how do u drop ur vamp stage then since at stage 1 is like no vampire cuz no benefit no penalty...seriously people check the things you ask for changes 1st.1 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »sounds like RP than actual utility change...big deal go feed every day once to keep stage 4 up and go hunger games to dry out...the only issue is that how do u drop ur vamp stage then since at stage 1 is like no vampire cuz no benefit no penalty...seriously people check the things you ask for changes 1st.
It currently works the other way around. You have to NOT feed to get vamp powers. That's the point of the thread.0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah, to be honest the stage/feeding mechanic is pretty boring. I get why it's like that and I get that Werewolf is tied to the ultimate.. It's just that it's THAT mechanic that makes Werewolf fun sometimes. It's engaging as long as the ultimate lasts. Vampirism, there's no need to feed at all.
It would also resolve people who don't want the Justice System to touch vampirism because the feeding mechanic encourages you to not be obvious and well... Stage 4 is pretty obvious without a skin.0 -
mayasunrising✭✭✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »What if it were the other way around? Should vamps gain more vampy powers the more they feed? This would make vamp feel a whole lot more vampy to play.
I agree! I'm not totally up on the lore with ESO vampies, but it never really made sense to me that a vamp would gain MORE powers the LESS they fed. In pretty much every vamp story I've ever read, and games in which vamps are central (VtM: Bloodlines for example) you must feed to maintain your powers and if you don't you go into a frenzy and essentially become a beast.
I also think - now that there's precedent in the game - that the more visible vamp (And werewolf!) abilities - should be considered criminal acts similar to Necros.
@ZOS_GinaBruno is this something that can be considered? It's a great idea!
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ♥ Anaïs Nin
“There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." ♥ Amanda Palmer
“A game is an opportunity to focus our energy, with relentless optimism, at something we’re good at (or getting better at) and enjoy. In other words, gameplay is the direct emotional opposite of depression.” ♥ Jane McGonigal
“They'll tell you you're too loud, that you need to wait your turn and ask the right people for permission. Do it anyway." ♥ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez2 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭It would also resolve people who don't want the Justice System to touch vampirism because the feeding mechanic encourages you to not be obvious and well... Stage 4 is pretty obvious without a skin.
Yeah... It would be very nice to not look like a monster or have to use a skin! Bringing it into the justice system could also be interesting... You'd have to feed to A: be strong/more vampy and B: Not attract the attention of guards etc. Sounds good.Edited by TumlinTheJolly on July 9, 2019 12:25PM2 -
Lord_Wrath✭✭✭✭✭And FFS already make facial and body markings appear over the vamp skin, not below it!1300+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Palatine - Grand Master Crafter - 30000 Achievement Points
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TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭Lord_Wrath wrote: »And FFS already make facial and body markings appear over the vamp skin, not below it!
Yes please. That'd be nice!2 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's always been this way in previous games (Skyrim and Oblivion at least, might be Morrowind too)Hoping for more playable races0 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭If it were brought into the justice system, perhaps guards would notice you from further away as your stage increased? At stage 1 they wouldn't notice at all?1
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darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭A sort of "reverse progression" would be a welcome change, because as it stands there's no reason to feed and feeding is fun. Feeding actively makes you a weaker vampire, which is stupid.2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »A sort of "reverse progression" would be a welcome change, because as it stands there's no reason to feed and feeding is fun. Feeding actively makes you a weaker vampire, which is stupid.
Agreed, it seems counterintuitive that a vampire gets stronger the less he feeds. However, if I had to feed regularly to maintain stage four, I would probably abandon the whole thing as just an extra chore that takes up more of my playing time.1 -
darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »A sort of "reverse progression" would be a welcome change, because as it stands there's no reason to feed and feeding is fun. Feeding actively makes you a weaker vampire, which is stupid.
Agreed, it seems counterintuitive that a vampire gets stronger the less he feeds. However, if I had to feed regularly to maintain stage four, I would probably abandon the whole thing as just an extra chore that takes up more of my playing time.
5 seconds in a 2 hour window is a chore?0 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭ZoS can we please have Drain essence animation changed to show us feeding instead of a hand beam. Please4 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭This suggestion sounds like it would make a lot of sense for role players. Other than that it sounds like way too much work. Unless I only needed to feed once a week, or some other really long window. Maybe Bloody Mara could be made to increase your vamp stage? That wouldn’t be so bad either.1 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭This suggestion sounds like it would make a lot of sense for role players. Other than that it sounds like way too much work. Unless I only needed to feed once a week, or some other really long window. Maybe Bloody Mara could be made to increase your vamp stage? That wouldn’t be so bad either.
Yeah I suggested this as someone who purely PvPs! Feeding once a day would be fine.0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I would add a "Stage 5", at which a vampire... starts continously loosing HP at a slow but steady rate due to being "blood-starved", and also suffers other penalties to make them less then effective. As well as maybe having a chance to auto-attack innocents in a frenzy if they get within range...
Hey, it would all be part of the "Bloodsucking Fiend" clichee that comes with vampirism, yes? Unable to control yourself around blood if starved, getting in trouble if you starve yourself for too long, etc.
As well as the other things I always mention when talking vampires:TheShadowScout wrote: »Like, why can't player vampires use the same skills like common bloodfiends? That shadowy teleport? Definitely should be added to their arsenal!
Like, why do Blade of woe and vampire feeding use the same mechanic and often select the wrong one? Why not combine them both into a "Bite of Woe" that counts for both feedings and assassinations?
Like, why does the vampire feeding just -stun- and not also damage? In days of blade of woe, it could at least suck away half their victims HP, right?
Like, why are lowly bloodfiends attacking their vampiric superiors? Should they not know their place and realize that this is not a meal, but another undead, and maybe all be "yellow" non-aggro towards player vamps?
Like, why do vampires swim like mortals? Should they not have some decent reason to avoid "running water"? Maybe a greatly reduced swimming speed, or maybe loosing magica at a steady, hefty rate while in water?
Like, why do vampires get food buffs? Should they not be incapable of those, yet get "recently fed" buffs instead? And possibly have the option of making "vampire" drink recipes with -actual blood- as part of the recipe that gives vampires only special buffs?
Like, why don't vampires have a way to store blood in alchemically treated vials for "later use" (to sip or to use in the aforementioned recipes)?
Like, why are vampires not illegal like necromancers are gonna be? Why not a "detection chance" per stage, say, 20% at 1, 40% at 2, 80% at 3 and auto at 4, with a "kill on sight" bounty if they find out you're a bloodsucking fiend... but also a "masquerade" skill to toggle that will lower your appearance and thus detection chance by one stage (meaning, zero chance and completely mortal looking when using that one at stage 1)
Like, why don't vampires have an "vampire sanctuary" where they can gather and sociualize with other vampy players, have vampire-themed gear vendors, and vampire-themed crafting stations, vampire-themed daily quests and pomme-se-sang NPCs to snack on... they -could- redo and expand the map for the initiation quest for that one, could they not?
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Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you ever felt Hunger in your life, real Hunger, then you would understand why Vamps gain more power as they starve... So in a way it makes sense.
Of course, as an undead that needs to feed on life to keep being ... undead... as opposed as plain dead, then yes, it seems counter intuitive.
However, the way it works now pleases me: I can RP a vampire feeding if I want to, but I don't have to. Means more freedom.0 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭Fun fact in early beta of ESO Vampires were able to have Thralls. Basically you would go find a humanoid in the world and make it your permanent thrall. It was going to be your "pet". But ZoS removed it for some reason. Could be they didn't want to be political with the whole Thrall aka slave thing or they just didn't want all classes to have pets.
Another fun fact is that a unfinished model of the Vampire Lord form is in ESO. It is a basic pink model, but you can Google it and see. Left over idea or possible skill? Who knows0 -
Vizikul✭✭✭✭If you ever felt Hunger in your life, real Hunger, then you would understand why Vamps gain more power as they starve... So in a way it makes sense.
I'm not sure which planet you came from but here on planet Earth hunger does not work the way you imply it does. Without anything to eat, you become weaker and weaker every consecutive day until you become so weak that you are unable to walk anymore.Edited by Vizikul on July 10, 2019 12:14AMPugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist2 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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That one is true.Those who have felt this, or read the literature reports from those who have, know that if you don't eat anything at all, hunger ceases after a couple days... and the first week you just use up your bodies reserves, then cannibalize your muscles in the second week while getting weaker and weaker, and in the third week its your organs that get drawn from, and eventually something gives and your system fails.If you ever felt Hunger in your life, real Hunger, then you would understand why Vamps gain more power as they starve... So in a way it makes sense.
I'm not sure from which planet you came from but here on planet Earth hunger does not work the way you imply it does. Without anything to eat, you become weaker and weaker every consecutive day until you become so weak that you are unable to walk anymore.
But that is -starvation- and not -hunger-!
Hunger is the feeling you get before you start to starve, when your body tells you "eat something, at any cost, or you will starve". And the thing those who don't get enough to eat always live with. Yeah, it can be ignored with enough willpower, but its a helluva driving force, since we -are- biologically programmed for survival.
A hungry animal will take risks and fight with desperate ferocity to get something to eat.
Same for a hungry vampire.
So, yeah, that one makes sense.
What makes no sense is that they can keep at the edge of "desperately hungry" and yet never suffer any drawbacks. Like i keep saying... at the very least I would want them to have a chance to loose control and auto-attack all the delicious bloodbags they walk past when they go to turn in a quest while in that state...1 -
Imza✭✭✭✭Vamps in Elseweyr support the - no feeding equates to no strength/power - theory. (spoiler - it's talked about in a quest)
It takes more than 5 seconds to feed...
- first you have to find an npc you can feed on
- then you have to wait to do the feeding in secret - or suffer a bounty
- then feed
- and then finally go back to what it was you were doing before you needed to feed.....
EDIT:
and imagine if you're in a trial or in a battleground...Edited by Imza on July 10, 2019 12:53AM0 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭Vamps in Elseweyr support the - no feeding equates to no strength/power - theory. (spoiler - it's talked about in a quest)
It takes more than 5 seconds to feed...
- first you have to find an npc you can feed on
- then you have to wait to do the feeding in secret - or suffer a bounty
- then feed
- and then finally go back to what it was you were doing before you needed to feed.....
EDIT:
and imagine if you're in a trial or in a battleground...
Invisibility potion and feeding in BGs is the biggest troll ever lol. Plaus I love to feed. The mechanic is so much fun. But I am discouraged to feed because of mechanics, so the MAJOR thing that makes vampire fun I am punished for doing.
Real reason the whole "No feeding = Stronger Vampire" is for the players convenience, nothing more. Vampire is treated as a buff more than a actual skill. Get Bit, Level skills, Apply Skills to passives, get to rank 4, done. Never to play with the skill again.
At least in Werewolf it actually feels like a skill line. It is way more engaging. Plus when you feed you ACTUALLY gain benefits, WHO KNEW?!?! Where vampire is a hit it and forget it skill line.1 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
That one is true.Those who have felt this, or read the literature reports from those who have, know that if you don't eat anything at all, hunger ceases after a couple days... and the first week you just use up your bodies reserves, then cannibalize your muscles in the second week while getting weaker and weaker, and in the third week its your organs that get drawn from, and eventually something gives and your system fails.If you ever felt Hunger in your life, real Hunger, then you would understand why Vamps gain more power as they starve... So in a way it makes sense.
I'm not sure from which planet you came from but here on planet Earth hunger does not work the way you imply it does. Without anything to eat, you become weaker and weaker every consecutive day until you become so weak that you are unable to walk anymore.
But that is -starvation- and not -hunger-!
Hunger is the feeling you get before you start to starve, when your body tells you "eat something, at any cost, or you will starve". And the thing those who don't get enough to eat always live with. Yeah, it can be ignored with enough willpower, but its a helluva driving force, since we -are- biologically programmed for survival.
A hungry animal will take risks and fight with desperate ferocity to get something to eat.
Same for a hungry vampire.
So, yeah, that one makes sense.
What makes no sense is that they can keep at the edge of "desperately hungry" and yet never suffer any drawbacks. Like i keep saying... at the very least I would want them to have a chance to loose control and auto-attack all the delicious bloodbags they walk past when they go to turn in a quest while in that state...
Than you, couldn't have said it better. It's exactly what I meant in my post.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »Currently (gameplay-wise) if you want to be a vamp, you get turned, ramp up to stage 4 and then forget about it. There is no real point in feeding... Most players go stage 4 or just get cured.
What if it were the other way around? Should vamps gain more vampy powers the more they feed? This would make vamp feel a whole lot more vampy to play.
Yes, you currently take less fire damage from feeding... but if you're doing that you'd may as well just get fully cured.
Edit: As people have pointed out, this could also be a way of fitting vamp into the justice system. It may also mean that you wouldn't feel the need to cover up the ugliness with a skin.
I believe the feeding mechanism was designed so players could choose when to be a vampire and when not to be without having to worry about being bitten again. It also allows players to control what stage of Vamprism they want to play at.
If you made it to where vampires had to feed regularly to use their vampire powers it would be a pain because using vampire abilities advances your stage very quickly. You would have to constantly be on the prowl for humanoids to feed on. And while that may sound cool - it would get tedious quickly trust me.Edited by Jeremy on July 10, 2019 2:22AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vamps in Elseweyr support the - no feeding equates to no strength/power - theory. (spoiler - it's talked about in a quest)
It takes more than 5 seconds to feed...
- first you have to find an npc you can feed on
- then you have to wait to do the feeding in secret - or suffer a bounty
- then feed
- and then finally go back to what it was you were doing before you needed to feed.....
EDIT:
and imagine if you're in a trial or in a battleground...
Invisibility potion and feeding in BGs is the biggest troll ever lol. Plaus I love to feed. The mechanic is so much fun. But I am discouraged to feed because of mechanics, so the MAJOR thing that makes vampire fun I am punished for doing.
Real reason the whole "No feeding = Stronger Vampire" is for the players convenience, nothing more. Vampire is treated as a buff more than a actual skill. Get Bit, Level skills, Apply Skills to passives, get to rank 4, done. Never to play with the skill again.
At least in Werewolf it actually feels like a skill line. It is way more engaging. Plus when you feed you ACTUALLY gain benefits, WHO KNEW?!?! Where vampire is a hit it and forget it skill line.
Just use drain essence instead. It's almost just as fun to use in combination with invisible.
Just be prepared for a lot of hate whispers. I usually have to ignore a couple of people every time I play him because one of my vampire characters is considered a "troll" when he does it. You would think being ganged up on by multiple players then beat into a puddle on the ground would bother them more. But nope - suck a little of their blood on a Vampire and they hate you. Gang beat them and they don't mind a bit. It's really weird.Edited by Jeremy on July 10, 2019 3:31AM1 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭If you made it to where vampires had to feed regularly to use their vampire powers it would be a pain because using vampire abilities advances your stage very quickly. You would have to constantly be on the prowl for humanoids to feed on. And while that may sound cool - it would get tedious quickly trust me.
Just make it so that your vamp stage increases only with time, not with ability use.Edited by TumlinTheJolly on July 10, 2019 3:57AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »If you made it to where vampires had to feed regularly to use their vampire powers it would be a pain because using vampire abilities advances your stage very quickly. You would have to constantly be on the prowl for humanoids to feed on. And while that may sound cool - it would get tedious quickly trust me.
Just make it so that your vamp stage increases only with time, not with ability use.
That might work.
It would end up being the current system just in reverse I guess.Edited by Jeremy on July 10, 2019 4:02AM0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »If you made it to where vampires had to feed regularly to use their vampire powers it would be a pain because using vampire abilities advances your stage very quickly. You would have to constantly be on the prowl for humanoids to feed on. And while that may sound cool - it would get tedious quickly trust me.
Just make it so that your vamp stage increases only with time, not with ability use.
That might work.
It would end up being the current system just in reverse I guess.
It would screw me over though. Currently when I am out and about solo I drop to level two vampire. Getting ready for trials or PvP I jump back up to level four. I can drop or raise a level or two as is real easy. Personally I wouldn't mind the change so long as it is done in a way that keeps it simple for going up or down levels.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »What if it were the other way around? Should vamps gain more vampy powers the more they feed? This would make vamp feel a whole lot more vampy to play.
NOT feeding in pretty much vampires everywhere results in weakness and torpor.
Maybe ZOS just needs to be different because it would otherwise be a chore for players, especially compared to being a Werewolf, where if you didn't want to handle it at all, you can just ignore it and not transform.
With Vampirism, if you get it, you have to deal with the weaknesses whether you use it or not. To additionally force people to feed -- the nature of players is to complain.
That said, it makes sense that feeding regularly should have some actual benefit.
Here's a crazy idea: Feeding = same as eating health+, stamina+, and magicka+ food.Edited by Dusk_Coven on July 10, 2019 4:15AM0