Necromancer pts feedback.

Skullstachio · July 2019

Here is my review and opinion on the notes made about the Necromancer in the latest pts patch. Feel free to add your own opinions and let me know what you think about these changes.

Grave Lord
Blastbones:

Removed the delay of the skeleton summoned from this ability and its morphs before it would attempt to leap to its target, to help reliability.
Reduced the minimum range of the leap ability to 5 meters from 7 meters to reduce situations where the Blastbones becomes confused on what to do, causing it to stand still, pondering its own existence.

The removal of the delay for the skeleton summoned by blastbones and its morphs could be seen as somewhat good, but considering it was that delay that allowed 20-30% out of the 50% bonus damage from stalking blastbones to be maintained with each summon could lead to a small decrease in damage regarding the bonus, making it almost mandatory to maintain a fair distance away from the target in order to get the full damage bonus. Decreasing the range of the leap to 5 meters from 7 meters (the 7 meters from 5 meters grammar from the actual notes looks to be like a typo) was probably fine, because there was a case with Magnifico Bahraha where the blastbones would just sit there instead of Blowing up the guy, me thinks it be the terrain causing a bit of funny business with the blastbones path-finding.

Boneyard:

Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3780 from 3510.
Decreased the damage by approximately 32% per tick.
Increased the bonus damage modifier for consuming a corpse to 50% from 20%.

Considering that the Morph “Unnerving Boneyard,” applies major fracture/breach to any enemy standing in it, I think it is safe to say the cost increase was suspected. The Bonus Damage from consuming a corpse increasing to 50% from 20% coupled with the 32% decrease to the DPT (Damage per tick) is a clear indication of thematic thought, Giving Necromancers the feeling of power from consuming corpses when using boneyard (that and the DPT decrease is offset by the Damage bonus increase, resulting in a 2% overall nerf(feel free to correct me if I am wrong.)

Pestilent Colossus: Reduced the escalating damage bonus each hit this morph deals. The total adjustment will result in an approximate 5% damage reduction.
Looks Self-explanatory, no feedback necessary.

Skeletal Mage: Increased the base cost to 4320 from 2430, and increased the damage per tick by approximately 90%.

This most certainly looks like a buff to the Skeletal mage to me, mind you the cost increase is nothing to sneeze at, but if used after proccing Reusable parts, the 25% cost reduction Brings it down to a measly 3240, probably further when used with sets like the seducer, hircines Veneer(for Skeletal archer), worms raiment and the like.

Skeletal Archer (morph):

The archer’s base damage no longer ranks up by 1.1% per rank.
Reduced the scaling bonus to 2% per hit from 10%, which ranks up to 5% at Rank IV.

Looks like a minor nerf to the morph as a whole, but given the buff to the base ability, call it a good offset I say.

Shocking Siphon:

This ability and its morphs will now update their hitboxes when fighting large enemies.
These abilities no longer have a resource cost, and now scale off your highest offensive stats.
Decreased the damage per tick by approximately 14%.

There’s a “Shocking” surprise here, good to see that it costs nothing to use, considering it mandatorily requires a corpse to use to its full potential, scaling to a players highest statistic is a well added improvement, the decrease to the DPT May result in a little less DPS but since it has the rare off-chance to cause concussion to damaged enemies(albeit a very small one) it is still a viable ability to use.

Mystic Siphon (morph): This ability now restores 35 Magicka per tick at Rank IV, down from 75.
this change will create less sustainability, but we shall see.

Bone Tyrant
Bitter Harvest:

The heal from this ability and its morphs is now properly synced up with the essence you absorb, resulting in less of a delay.
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 11%.

This looks to be a minor buff.

Bone Goliath Transformation: Fixed an issue where you could occasionally become stuck as a terrifying giant after casting this ability or its morphs, and never return to your frail, humanoid form. You must now find other ways to usher terror into Tamriel.
Darn it. I liked that bug. R.I.P Giant Scythe-Wielding Wraith-of-Crows Polymorph. :'(

Living Death
Render Flesh: Fixed an issue where the Befouled star from the Shadow tree was applying to the Minor Defile from this ability and its morphs.
Neat, I had a sneaking suspicion this would be brought to attention

Restoring Tether:

This ability and its morphs no longer have a resource cost, and now scale off your highest offensive stats.
Decreased the healing per tick by approximately 14%.
Mortal Coil: Reduced the Stamina return per tick to 35 from 79 at Rank IV.

Same feedback as shocking siphon but with healing instead of zapping.

Spirit Mender: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 4320 from 2430, and increased the healing per tick by approximately 90%.
Looks good from a standpoint, reusable parts becomes a more viable passive.

Intensive Mender (morph): This morph now heals for twice as much per tick, rather than 3 times. Reduces the duration in half, but also reduces the cost to half.
So, Intensive mender still lasts 8 seconds as intended but only heals twice as much alongside having a halved cost (2160 at best). I could work with it as a whole considering I use spirit guardian.

Dinokstrun · July 2019

Been playing around with Blastbones on PTS and it still feels fairly unreliable. Multiple times after rushing towards to the target the blastbones just stands in front of the target for 1.5 seconds before deciding to explode. Only positive as a stam necro it feels slightly quicker better than live version of blastbones since it leaps more often than not.

wheem_ESO · July 2019

Skullstachio wrote: »

The removal of the delay for the skeleton summoned by blastbones and its morphs could be seen as somewhat good, but considering it was that delay that allowed 20-30% out of the 50% bonus damage from stalking blastbones to be maintained with each summon could lead to a small decrease in damage regarding the bonus, making it almost mandatory to maintain a fair distance away from the target in order to get the full damage bonus. Decreasing the range of the leap to 5 meters from 7 meters (the 7 meters from 5 meters grammar from the actual notes looks to be like a typo) was probably fine, because there was a case with Magnifico Bahraha where the blastbones would just sit there instead of Blowing up the guy, me thinks it be the terrain causing a bit of funny business with the blastbones path-finding.

Blastbones still has the 2.5 second "assembly" time before becoming active (if it didn't, it'd become a really high damage spammable when used at point blank range

). The delay mentioned in the patch notes is instead referring to the time between Blastbones becoming active and when it'll use its gap closer. That delay was added late in the Elsweyr PTS cycle, and has now been reverted.

Off the top of my head, I'd like to see at least some of the following changes:
1: Speed up Grave Grasp and its morphs. It's fine to use when you're already at point blank range with someone, but is far too slow to be worthwhile at any sort of range in PvP, especially given how immobile Magicka Necromancer is. And perhaps the "empowering" morph should also apply to Necromancer summons automatically, since targeting them isn't very reliable. Given the cost of the ability, I don't think this would be too overpowering.

2: Rework Bone Totem. The delay (and super obvious telegraph) make it really terrible for a CC, and the Minor Protection buff isn't "sticky" at all - as soon as you move out of the small AOE it goes away. It's hard to say exactly what should be done with this skill, though, since I assume many PvE tanks will guard it jealously (although it seems like the duration-to-cost ratio on Minor Protection is fairly bad?)

Magicka Necromancers really need a worthwhile CC option for PvP, so maybe only changing the Remote Totem morph would be the best option. Either that, or add a CC onto a different class skill, or perhaps reduce the drawbacks on Vampirism and expect all of us to run Drain for our CC.

3: Improve the Bone Goliath Transformation's defenses/survivability in PvP. The bash-spam was rightfully nerfed, but this Ultimate really isn't all that great outside of that previous silliness. It interrupts you when the transformation runs out (seriously, try using the Psijic Meditation when transformed for an easy test), and doesn't really provide all that much survivability outside of some 1v1 fights when you get bursted. Given the cost, it just isn't very good; Temporal Guard or Resto Ult would almost always be superior choices when trying to stay alive, especially since execute range is based on HP %.

4: Improve both tethers. While I understand that ZOS probably doesn't want to abandon the corpse mechanic, it's currently far too limiting for these two abilities. They're still essentially useless when mobility is necessary (which is always in PvP), even when free to cast. I'd really like to see Magicka Necromancers have a class-based DOT option, but Mystic Siphon doesn't really fit the bill at all (outside of some PvE boss fights I guess?)

There have been suggestions about making them tether you to another player (friend or foe, depending on the particular tether), and that's one option that might be halfway decent. The only issue there, IMO, is that it certainly couldn't still require a corpse or high resources to cast. Otherwise we'd basically be left exactly where we are now, where it'd be LOS'd or out-ranged so much that it wouldn't be worth the bar slot.

5: Make Flame Skull and its morphs a little more friendly to weaving. Maybe it's just me, but I clip my light attacks with this spammable more than pretty much any other. It seems to want to queue up casts in a way that doesn't really happen to me on other classes.

6: Have Blastbones follow the caster during the initial 2.5 second "assembly" time. As it stands right now, it's far too easy for it to get so far behind that it'll never reach its target, and that prevents you from re-casting another for far too long.

Mojomonkeyman · July 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Skullstachio wrote: »

The removal of the delay for the skeleton summoned by blastbones and its morphs could be seen as somewhat good, but considering it was that delay that allowed 20-30% out of the 50% bonus damage from stalking blastbones to be maintained with each summon could lead to a small decrease in damage regarding the bonus, making it almost mandatory to maintain a fair distance away from the target in order to get the full damage bonus. Decreasing the range of the leap to 5 meters from 7 meters (the 7 meters from 5 meters grammar from the actual notes looks to be like a typo) was probably fine, because there was a case with Magnifico Bahraha where the blastbones would just sit there instead of Blowing up the guy, me thinks it be the terrain causing a bit of funny business with the blastbones path-finding.

Blastbones still has the 2.5 second "assembly" time before becoming active (if it didn't, it'd become a really high damage spammable when used at point blank range ). The delay mentioned in the patch notes is instead referring to the time between Blastbones becoming active and when it'll use its gap closer. That delay was added late in the Elsweyr PTS cycle, and has now been reverted.

Off the top of my head, I'd like to see at least some of the following changes:
1: Speed up Grave Grasp and its morphs. It's fine to use when you're already at point blank range with someone, but is far too slow to be worthwhile at any sort of range in PvP, especially given how immobile Magicka Necromancer is. And perhaps the "empowering" morph should also apply to Necromancer summons automatically, since targeting them isn't very reliable. Given the cost of the ability, I don't think this would be too overpowering.

2: Rework Bone Totem. The delay (and super obvious telegraph) make it really terrible for a CC, and the Minor Protection buff isn't "sticky" at all - as soon as you move out of the small AOE it goes away. It's hard to say exactly what should be done with this skill, though, since I assume many PvE tanks will guard it jealously (although it seems like the duration-to-cost ratio on Minor Protection is fairly bad?)

Magicka Necromancers really need a worthwhile CC option for PvP, so maybe only changing the Remote Totem morph would be the best option. Either that, or add a CC onto a different class skill, or perhaps reduce the drawbacks on Vampirism and expect all of us to run Drain for our CC.

3: Improve the Bone Goliath Transformation's defenses/survivability in PvP. The bash-spam was rightfully nerfed, but this Ultimate really isn't all that great outside of that previous silliness. It interrupts you when the transformation runs out (seriously, try using the Psijic Meditation when transformed for an easy test), and doesn't really provide all that much survivability outside of some 1v1 fights when you get bursted. Given the cost, it just isn't very good; Temporal Guard or Resto Ult would almost always be superior choices when trying to stay alive, especially since execute range is based on HP %.

4: Improve both tethers. While I understand that ZOS probably doesn't want to abandon the corpse mechanic, it's currently far too limiting for these two abilities. They're still essentially useless when mobility is necessary (which is always in PvP), even when free to cast. I'd really like to see Magicka Necromancers have a class-based DOT option, but Mystic Siphon doesn't really fit the bill at all (outside of some PvE boss fights I guess?)

There have been suggestions about making them tether you to another player (friend or foe, depending on the particular tether), and that's one option that might be halfway decent. The only issue there, IMO, is that it certainly couldn't still require a corpse or high resources to cast. Otherwise we'd basically be left exactly where we are now, where it'd be LOS'd or out-ranged so much that it wouldn't be worth the bar slot.

5: Make Flame Skull and its morphs a little more friendly to weaving. Maybe it's just me, but I clip my light attacks with this spammable more than pretty much any other. It seems to want to queue up casts in a way that doesn't really happen to me on other classes.

6: Have Blastbones follow the caster during the initial 2.5 second "assembly" time. As it stands right now, it's far too easy for it to get so far behind that it'll never reach its target, and that prevents you from re-casting another for far too long.

I agree with everything but 3). My PvP Goliath is probably one of the strongest things in the game (in light armor). Almost unkillable due to the healing modifiers of Scythe and Necrotic Potency when not countered correctly.

red_emu · July 2019

There was me thinking, they gave MagNecro at least one buff in this patch with removing the delay. Nope ... In PvP by the time the skeleton assembles, the enemy is already too far away for it to ever catch up.

Please remove the 2.5 second delay. The skill doesn't do as much damage to justify it. Or at least reduce the delay to 1 second, like other cast time abilities.

Neloth · July 2019

Yes, rework bone totem into a reliable CC. Right now even warden arctic nonsense is better. Or at least give shock reach back it’s stun, if we don’t deserve a good class-based CC.

wheem_ESO · July 2019

red_emu wrote: »

There was me thinking, they gave MagNecro at least one buff in this patch with removing the delay. Nope ... In PvP by the time the skeleton assembles, the enemy is already too far away for it to ever catch up.

Please remove the 2.5 second delay. The skill doesn't do as much damage to justify it. Or at least reduce the delay to 1 second, like other cast time abilities.

They can't entirely remove the delay, or Necromancer would have absurd damage at point blank range when Blastbones turned into a spammable. I just think the still-assembling-itself skeleton should follow the caster around during that initial 2.5 seconds.

Neloth wrote: »

Yes, rework bone totem into a reliable CC. Right now even warden arctic nonsense is better. Or at least give shock reach back it’s stun, if we don’t deserve a good class-based CC.

I can't agree with Reach getting the stun back, unless Master Staves get changed or nerfed. Weapons obtained through non-trivial PvE should never be top dog in PvP, especially when it wraps a strong spammable and long range CC into one bar slot (which shouldn't be a thing at all, IMO).

The best solution is improvements to class-based CCs for some classes (Necromancers especially), or a reduction in the drawbacks to Vampirism (and perhaps some extra range on Drain? I don't think 20m would be too crazy).

Peekachu99 · July 2019

Bone Totem and Grave Grasp both need a rework. Neither is justified staying on a bar when you can CC far more reliably with Frost Blockade and Graveyard.

Vicarra · July 2019

As a magtank, I would quite like to have a morph off one of the tether skills (of which I currently use none) to share out incoming damage instead of using the spirit guardian, which no longer feels viable to me because of the increased cost vs undead confederate sustain bonus. I don't much care about the healing it provides, because I don't use it for that.

Or perhaps something that lets me pass dots on me (or other negative effects) onto corpses as an alternative to purge (1 effect per corpse), which then explode with disease damage when enemies stand on them (like the sorc mines) after a period of "juicing up".

One thing that is a constant source of annoyance to me when tanking is the lack of a reliable CC. It's all very well having chains via beckoning armour, but the mobs who are chained in can just run away immediately. I would like to have a reliable CC that, for instance, continually feeds off death. I.e., when cast, it produces an aura of dread that slows enemies (by 70%) that are within 5 metres of me for 3 seconds, and every 5 seconds will consume another corpse to keep the aura up. If the skill is used again while already active, it can use any available remaining corpses to fear enemies in place (with X enemies shared for X corpses consumed).

Neloth · July 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I can't agree with Reach getting the stun back, unless Master Staves get changed or nerfed. Weapons obtained through non-trivial PvE should never be top dog in PvP, especially when it wraps a strong spammable and long range CC into one bar slot (which shouldn't be a thing at all, IMO).

The best solution is improvements to class-based CCs for some classes (Necromancers especially), or a reduction in the drawbacks to Vampirism (and perhaps some extra range on Drain? I don't think 20m would be too crazy).

Master weapons have never been overperforming, and the only complains I heard about them are from lazy/unskilled PvPers, who can't find friends to help them in vDSA. The whole thing can be easily done with both DDs pulling 25k DPS, which is trivially to achieve in current game state. Yes, it takes 1.5-2 hours to run with an average group (competent PvE friends of mine clear it in 1h), so it can be considered a bit to long. Yes, I fully support giving DSA weapons BRB treatment, when you get worse versions after doing normal run.

Keep in mind this all comes from a primary PvP player with 15+ vDSA runs, who never got vDSA inferno staff (only ice and shock).

Moreover, in the latest patch every class had a comparable or better set options even without DSA destro. Crafty + necro + monster outperformed master builds on magsorcs and magdens by a mile, while magblades and DKs were never forced into master destro at all. Necro has its own problems, which have no connection to master destro. Idk anything about templars, but I don't see them frequently running reach either.

Last, that OP spammable + long range CC is extremely telegraphed on its flame version, while 3/6 classes can't afford running its shock version, which is a bit less telegraphed.

Thus I can't understand how you can justify reach nerf with master reach being OP or being hard to get.

Edit: now I just want to add, that forcing people into being vampire is far more cruel than forcing PvP players doing easy PvE trial. Double standards?

sandblack · July 2019

How about you can throw a skeleton at an enemy and it jumps onto their back, holding on to them while you siphon power from the lifedraining skeleton.

Maybe instead if an explosion that is mitigated by major evasion (since 9outof10 stam will get it) blastbones could be singletarget.

Baphomet · July 2019

Also make sure that blastbones damage can’t be dodged since it’s an AoE.

Players can easily dodge it as it is now.

It also needs to be sped up again. Most stamina builds can outrun it - even when cast from close range.

Also cut down the delay to 1,5 secs to prevent it from going idle because it can’t find its target.

Leave the damage as it is because its easy to kill, more than half the players will soon have major evasion and dragon wings halves the damage because it is treated as a ranged attack.

katorga · July 2019

red_emu wrote: »

There was me thinking, they gave MagNecro at least one buff in this patch with removing the delay. Nope ... In PvP by the time the skeleton assembles, the enemy is already too far away for it to ever catch up.

Please remove the 2.5 second delay. The skill doesn't do as much damage to justify it. Or at least reduce the delay to 1 second, like other cast time abilities.

They can leave the delay. It is supposed to be delayed burst like Haunting Curse or Shalks, but make it teleport to the target to the target. Or remove the resource cost just like the tethers because of how terribly unreliable it is.

Either way the mechanics to BB and the tethers wrecked this class. It will always have problems.

Mettaricana · July 2019

I'd rater see them fuse summon skeletal mage and blastbone into a summon a pair of skeletons pet skill that deals magic ranged or melee posion or disease damage for like 30 secs then detonate or leap detonate at end of duration. And use the freed up skill to give necro a source or major brutality and sorcery. Like bring back the stamina sorcerer old crit surge that healed 40% of the crit dmg dealt maybe tweak it down to like 30% and work on direct damage. Would bring back a feel of semi perma pets and a close up brawler specialist of scythe swinging.

sandblack · July 2019

i would like them to make blastbones jump onto the targets back and grab on. like a boney backpack, you could then use a siphon onto the corpse that the enemy has on its back, making it harder to avoid but you could still line of sight the siphon, giving it some counterplay.

maybe the second or third blastbones thrown at an enemy could stun it. after the stun the corpses fall off.

fook. i dunno.. but major evasion makes blastbones meh.

katorga · July 2019

sandblack wrote: »

i would like them to make blastbones jump onto the targets back and grab on. like a boney backpack, you could then use a siphon onto the corpse that the enemy has on its back, making it harder to avoid but you could still line of sight the siphon, giving it some counterplay.

maybe the second or third blastbones thrown at an enemy could stun it. after the stun the corpses fall off.

fook. i dunno.. but major evasion makes blastbones meh.

Well, tbh, major evasion hammers magicka necro pretty hard. Templar the same, but they have eclipse.

Seraphayel · July 2019

sandblack wrote: »

i would like them to make blastbones jump onto the targets back and grab on. like a boney backpack, you could then use a siphon onto the corpse that the enemy has on its back, making it harder to avoid but you could still line of sight the siphon, giving it some counterplay.

maybe the second or third blastbones thrown at an enemy could stun it. after the stun the corpses fall off.

fook. i dunno.. but major evasion makes blastbones meh.

I love the idea of throwing a skeleton onto my target‘s back and it keeps clinging to them.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · July 2019

Dinokstrun wrote: »

Been playing around with Blastbones on PTS and it still feels fairly unreliable. Multiple times after rushing towards to the target the blastbones just stands in front of the target for 1.5 seconds before deciding to explode.

Well that is almost certainly down to the location desync issue that is all over the servers.

It's taking the code that long to realise the skelly is within range of the target.

All The Best