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Let's talk about the healing changes...
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
So you are proposing that healers should be happy about a skill that just more than doubled in cost (1 target instead of 2 + cost increase), has no reliable way of targeting and is absolutely not viable at healing a 12 man group (under perfect conditions (every cast hitting a new person) two healers will need 6 GCDs to apply Regeneration to everyone and it will have to be reapplied 4 GCDs later)?
Yep, great buffs we are talking about here...
From what I see - yeah I would expect healers to be happy. It increases the tick by 98%, I would gladly take having to cast an ability twice for double the potency. After reading this change - it's actually making me think of breaking out my healer again as regeneration is one of the few heals you don't have to be staring at a person to cast on or have them stacked on top of you.
They also cut the duration in half. And I'm still waiting for you to explain how is Regeneration such a buff in a 12 man... Healing 4 mans is not hard and is not even required in most cases.
My comments aren't limited to trials.
But even in trials, I would expect the nrew regen capable of more healing now. 98% is a huge buff.
And the problem in this thread is limited to trials... Healing four people in a situation where healing is not even needed (1 tank/3 DD will be even more potent next patch) is not hard. Healing twelve people through a serious healcheck is a problem. And you might not be aware, but damage in trials does not happen on a one by one basis. All twelve players take heavy damage simultaneously and single target HoTs will do jacksh*t to save your group there.
This thread is about the changes to healing. NO where in the OP did it say this conversation was only about veteran trials. Not every comment I make has to be about what you want to talk about.
Though even in a trial situation - I would still imagine this new regen would outperform the old. So it's a moot point anyway.
Oh, really?Rustyfish101 wrote: »Which while overpowered is necessary sometimes for especially difficult fights in endgame PvE such as DLC dungeons and trials (vCR/vHoF anyone?).Rustyfish101 wrote: »Limiting it to one at a time will have the DPS going nuts for the now rare synergy in a 12 person trial.
These are quotes from the first post in the thread. It really is about trials. And you are still failing to grasp that no matter how good a single target HoT is it is not suitable for healing a big group.
Also this.As a healer myself. These changes are a punch in the guts.
One of my healers is a bosmer templar healer and I ALWAYS get sh|t for it. "oh you can't heal properly, oh you will struggle with mag resources" etc. Etc. I loved to prove them wrong and show my bosmer healer is just as good. These healer changes will actually change this. Rapid regeneration was something I always had up for my group. Now it will be too expensive to cast. Will need to cast it 4 bloody times at an increased cost of a total 10,800 mag every 5 seconds. It's a brutal slap in the face. Means I will be needing to do way more heavy attacks for sustain.
And even this.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.
You said you dislike when people are forced to play a build they don't like. Well, good luck getting into group on a non-templar healer next patch.4 -
Rustyfish101✭✭✭halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
So you are proposing that healers should be happy about a skill that just more than doubled in cost (1 target instead of 2 + cost increase), has no reliable way of targeting and is absolutely not viable at healing a 12 man group (under perfect conditions (every cast hitting a new person) two healers will need 6 GCDs to apply Regeneration to everyone and it will have to be reapplied 4 GCDs later)?
Yep, great buffs we are talking about here...
From what I see - yeah I would expect healers to be happy. It increases the tick by 98%, I would gladly take having to cast an ability twice for double the potency. After reading this change - it's actually making me think of breaking out my healer again as regeneration is one of the few heals you don't have to be staring at a person to cast on or have them stacked on top of you.
They also cut the duration in half. And I'm still waiting for you to explain how is Regeneration such a buff in a 12 man... Healing 4 mans is not hard and is not even required in most cases.
My comments aren't limited to trials.
But even in trials, I would expect the nrew regen capable of more healing now. 98% is a huge buff.
And the problem in this thread is limited to trials... Healing four people in a situation where healing is not even needed (1 tank/3 DD will be even more potent next patch) is not hard. Healing twelve people through a serious healcheck is a problem. And you might not be aware, but damage in trials does not happen on a one by one basis. All twelve players take heavy damage simultaneously and single target HoTs will do jacksh*t to save your group there.
This thread is about the changes to healing. NO where in the OP did it say this conversation was only about veteran trials. Not every comment I make has to be about what you want to talk about.
Though even in a trial situation - I would still imagine this new regen would outperform the old. So it's a moot point anyway. And you might not be aware, but damage doesn't happen on a one by one basis in a lot of 4 mans either.
Well I did specify trials actually, vHoF and vCR (the examples I gave) are veteran trials. This is where the heals are most needed along with some vet dlc dungeons on hardmode. Let's not argue about totally different things. Dungeons are totally different to heal than trials and is like comparing apples to oranges. There's a certain type of experience, skill, and abilities you use in one that is often totally different from the other. The main points remain however, that grand healing needs something done about it, and orbs need synergies which luckily that will be fixed next patch. Either grand healing gets some healing buff or we need a replacement that can work in trials and dungeons (doesn't have to be the same skill/set).Tanks:
Fishando - Dragonknight Tank - Master Crafter
Healers:
Rustyfish - Templar Healer
Rozykinz - Warden Healer - Godslayer
Bellafish - Dragonknight Healer
Heals-With-Fish - Nightblade Healer
Fishromancer - Necromancer Healer
DPS:
Rusted Rose - Magicka Sorcerer
Unifish - Magicka Dragonknight
Fishy Cakes - Magicka Templar
Rosy Bell - Magicka Nightblade
Rosyfish - Stamina Templar
Rosy Fish - Stamina Warden
Llamafish - Stamina Nightblade
PC/NA
Founder of Mudcrab Knights, a friendly, welcoming, guild that teaches end game content, specifically trials to everyone who wants to learn!1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
In this game they are resources batteries as you put it.
Not according to the role definition in the Activity Finder they aren't.
According to this game: a healer's job is to: Heal and protect allies, keeping them alive throughout the battle. I see nothing in that description about being a resource battery.
Don't use that load of garbage for a definition.
Sorry but that's not a "load of garbage". That is how the game itself defines the job of healers. And I'll take the game's definition over your own.
To the contrary.The gf is not a dictionary.You cannot use such things to define something when the game has such a crappy ui.1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also, with some of the insane vigor tooltips i've seen people pull today, it won't be hard to imagine dungeon runs being 3 dps and one slotting echoing vigor.3 -
asdf0716✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
In this game they are resources batteries as you put it.
Not according to the role definition in the Activity Finder they aren't.
According to this game: a healer's job is to: Heal and protect allies, keeping them alive throughout the battle. I see nothing in that description about being a resource battery.
FFS- give it a *** rest already. You know what they call a fanatic? Someone that can’t change their mind and won’t change the subject.Edited by asdf0716 on July 9, 2019 12:09AM7 -
Tourist_McGee✭✭✭As someone who prefers to tank or heal, i've always been guided by this old adage:
If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damned fault.
When i'm healing I consider it my top priority to heal; to keep the tank alive, and then the dps. Being a resource battery for the dps would always be a distant second. That being said, i am new to the game, not yet having a toon that's done anything beyond the early public dungeons, so i've not experienced the part of the game where it's the healers job to be a resource battery.1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
So you are proposing that healers should be happy about a skill that just more than doubled in cost (1 target instead of 2 + cost increase), has no reliable way of targeting and is absolutely not viable at healing a 12 man group (under perfect conditions (every cast hitting a new person) two healers will need 6 GCDs to apply Regeneration to everyone and it will have to be reapplied 4 GCDs later)?
Yep, great buffs we are talking about here...
From what I see - yeah I would expect healers to be happy. It increases the tick by 98%, I would gladly take having to cast an ability twice for double the potency. After reading this change - it's actually making me think of breaking out my healer again as regeneration is one of the few heals you don't have to be staring at a person to cast on or have them stacked on top of you.
They also cut the duration in half. And I'm still waiting for you to explain how is Regeneration such a buff in a 12 man... Healing 4 mans is not hard and is not even required in most cases.
My comments aren't limited to trials.
But even in trials, I would expect the nrew regen capable of more healing now. 98% is a huge buff.
And the problem in this thread is limited to trials... Healing four people in a situation where healing is not even needed (1 tank/3 DD will be even more potent next patch) is not hard. Healing twelve people through a serious healcheck is a problem. And you might not be aware, but damage in trials does not happen on a one by one basis. All twelve players take heavy damage simultaneously and single target HoTs will do jacksh*t to save your group there.
This thread is about the changes to healing. NO where in the OP did it say this conversation was only about veteran trials. Not every comment I make has to be about what you want to talk about.
Though even in a trial situation - I would still imagine this new regen would outperform the old. So it's a moot point anyway. And you might not be aware, but damage doesn't happen on a one by one basis in a lot of 4 mans either.
Healing heavily relates to veteran trials.Pretty sure in most of this people are at minimum talking about dlc dungeons as their area of concern as well.5 -
mayasunrising✭✭✭✭✭I'm okay with the changes. I'm using an argonian warden and between layering circle heals, frontal cone heals, and targeted heals, it's - if anything - overkill healing (#ironicwordpairings). That's in PvE of course.
In PvPland, I know it's going to be a huge change. So many of us are used to riding a carpet of Springs while in battle. Now it's going to require a bit more thought. But we're resourceful, we'll adapt. My guess is that because ZOS' servers won't have to calculate 3,000 layered healing springs that lag might be a tad better. Hopefully. I'd definitely sacrifice the magic carpet of healing goodness for a bit of a free up from the lag dragon."And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ♥ Anaïs Nin
“There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." ♥ Amanda Palmer
“A game is an opportunity to focus our energy, with relentless optimism, at something we’re good at (or getting better at) and enjoy. In other words, gameplay is the direct emotional opposite of depression.” ♥ Jane McGonigal
“They'll tell you you're too loud, that you need to wait your turn and ask the right people for permission. Do it anyway." ♥ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez1 -
CipherNine✭✭✭✭✭They are destroying the healing role. There is no point in running a healer now. Just have the DDs run echoing vigor. The only place we might be needed is veteran trials. gee thats so fun.
The lead of the combat team is PvP guy. So us PvEers will just get the shaft every patch. Which is really stupid. This is a Elder Scrolls game. With a majority of PvE players. they do nothing but cater to PVP players. Im sick of it.PC-NA
Khajiit Templar - Healer
Argonian Necromancer - Healer
Breton Warden - Healer
Nord Necromancer - Tank
Argonian Templar - Tank
Nord Warden - Tank8 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »NaranjaIslands wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »NaranjaIslands wrote: »This thread started out REALLY GOOD. Then people started getting emotional. I would've loved to have been able to scroll through constructive conversation about the healing changes, but instead I felt the need to skip at least 4 pages of people being dramatic. I expect this thread to get moderated, or locked soon. Hopefully just moderated.
ANYWAY - I enjoy playing as a dedicated healer to support my teammates. I will always opt to play as a healer in dungeons/ trials, and I have the most fun by supporting my team while clearing harder content. This motivation has lead me to learn so much more about the game, and has helped me increase my skill level as a player at a very reasonable pace.
To be honest, I enjoy the support aspect of playing a healer more than the actual healing itself. Don't get me wrong, I keep everyone topped off without hesitation, but if there was a separate role for support then I'd probably play that more. Instead I have 5 alts fully dedicated to healing, and I use a Templar as my main for vet dungeons/ trials.
I'm concerned about the changes to healing that the patch notes reveal, but I'm hoping that the PTS phase will tweak some things so that these changes will be much more reasonable.
Kind of off topic, but what's the likelihood of ZOS implementing a role purely geared towards being a support group member? I would have more variety as far as what roles my alts play, but I'm thinking that'll never happen. It's an interesting thought nonetheless.
They´d have to rebalance a lot of Content for a new role to be added, what are you gonna drop in 4 man for it? One dd? Or one healer? If the answer is dd then all Content Needs to be reworked, if the answer is healer why even Change something?
Yeah I agree with you. Adding a new role would need a huge overhaul, but it was just something that this conversation had me curious about.
Why would it need a huge overhaul? Just shift all of the buffs, debuffs and resource management tools from tanks/healers to a new supporting DPS role. And there you have your question as to which spot they’ll take. RIFT (another MMORPG) had this wonderful class called “Archon“ that was this support DPS.
That would actually be an easy way to fix this problem without having redesign the game. Just rename one of the DPS slots support. That way players who queue for that role can balance their character out between damage and support-oriented abilities. This is a great idea, actually.
Thus making it take even longer in queue because everyone wants to dps. Let's not forget about fake support roles either.you will have that to deal with.
Allowing players to focus on support would likely alleviate the problem with fake roles - because it would give people another option that likely isn't going to be overly-crowded for players who do not like to tank or heal.
Longer queue times for DPS would probably happen. But oh well. They would just have to start considering playing support themseleves instead of expecting tanks and healers to do it for them. ^^
As a healer main, I'd be pissed if they made healers useless like that. Managing buffs and debuffs is what makes healer role challenging, without them it's just braindead heal spam that is not even needed in many situations (because of oneshot mechanics and such). Healers are already pretty useless in dungeons, outside of some specific dlc hardmodes and it sucks. Support skills is pretty much the only thing they bring to the table, and if they are moved to a different class, healers will not be needed at all.
Of course, trials are a different beast. And if you think that healers who refuse to use support skills/sets would be more welcome in trial groups if they introduce a new role... You're simply wrong. In trial groups everyone has to contribute, and no one would want to replace a dd with an extra support player unless it's vCR+minibosses with 3 tanks.
Fake roles problem can't be solved easily as long as average dps is so low. Introducing a new role is not going to solve this. You cannot carry a bad group as a healer or tank, so it doesn't make much sense to solo queue if you're a support player. This leads to the lack of healers and tanks and longer queues for dds. If ZOS wanted to fix this, they should've boosted average player's dps instead of nerfing everyone.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU4 -
sindalstar✭✭✭Guys
The orbs will be changed to not go away after you use the synergy.
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »
As always, we will be monitoring feedback about all the balance changes during this PTS cycle, however we wanted to let everyone know that in a future PTS patch, the synergy from Orbs will not cause the Orb to vanish and can be activated multiple times by anyone not on synergy cool down.
Yall precious resources are gonna be fine as long as you arent a headless chicken. The pops will grant extra healing too .
The healers dont have to use an entire clip of magika to donate to every raid member anymore and can use it on their other abilities to heal.
Im bloody stoked.Edited by sindalstar on July 9, 2019 8:17AM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CipherNine wrote: »They are destroying the healing role. There is no point in running a healer now. Just have the DDs run echoing vigor. The only place we might be needed is veteran trials. gee thats so fun.
The lead of the combat team is PvP guy. So us PvEers will just get the shaft every patch. Which is really stupid. This is a Elder Scrolls game. With a majority of PvE players. they do nothing but cater to PVP players. Im sick of it.
Please stop with these conspiracy theories about “a PvP guy ruining PvE“ or whatsoever, it’s silly and doesn’t add anything to the discussion.
No, they are not destroying the healer role with this patch. Healers were barely needed before the changes in dungeons, that’s true, but this has nothing to do with PvP balance and they’re absolutely not catering solely to PvP players, they never had and they never will.
This PvE vs. PvP discussion when someone dislike changes that are/were made is fruitless.Edited by Seraphayel on July 9, 2019 10:00AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mayasunrising wrote: »I'm okay with the changes. I'm using an argonian warden and between layering circle heals, frontal cone heals, and targeted heals, it's - if anything - overkill healing (#ironicwordpairings). That's in PvE of course.
In PvPland, I know it's going to be a huge change. So many of us are used to riding a carpet of Springs while in battle. Now it's going to require a bit more thought. But we're resourceful, we'll adapt. My guess is that because ZOS' servers won't have to calculate 3,000 layered healing springs that lag might be a tad better. Hopefully. I'd definitely sacrifice the magic carpet of healing goodness for a bit of a free up from the lag dragon.
Only for ball groups that used #s and had no skill. This change will finally separate the good healers from the bad in PvP and PvE. No one skill should be REQUIRED to play the game in my opinion, yet that was and is true for a large portion of the game right now. I heal in PvE and PvP and look forward to the nerfs.0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mayasunrising wrote: »I'm okay with the changes. I'm using an argonian warden and between layering circle heals, frontal cone heals, and targeted heals, it's - if anything - overkill healing (#ironicwordpairings). That's in PvE of course.
In PvPland, I know it's going to be a huge change. So many of us are used to riding a carpet of Springs while in battle. Now it's going to require a bit more thought. But we're resourceful, we'll adapt. My guess is that because ZOS' servers won't have to calculate 3,000 layered healing springs that lag might be a tad better. Hopefully. I'd definitely sacrifice the magic carpet of healing goodness for a bit of a free up from the lag dragon.
Only for ball groups that used #s and had no skill. This change will finally separate the good healers from the bad in PvP and PvE. No one skill should be REQUIRED to play the game in my opinion, yet that was and is true for a large portion of the game right now. I heal in PvE and PvP and look forward to the nerfs.
Oh please. Stop with the "ball groups have no skill". And this will separate the "good from the bad". I've been healing in pvp since the beginning in both small and large groups. And to be honest, we need to encourage more players to be healers cause there is actually a lack of them. Now I'm not 100% against the Healing Springs changes. But I'm not 100% for them as well. But regardless, all that this will lead to is an army of Cleanse healers. And the heal from Cleanse got buffed. Layering a group with Hots is still possible, and it has always been the purges that keep groups moving.
As a side note, you are likely to see dedicated Rapid spammers in groups now. It's cheaper and lasts 8 secs even if you heal or deal dmg. Be prepared to be run over like a freight train.4 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mayasunrising wrote: »I'm okay with the changes. I'm using an argonian warden and between layering circle heals, frontal cone heals, and targeted heals, it's - if anything - overkill healing (#ironicwordpairings). That's in PvE of course.
In PvPland, I know it's going to be a huge change. So many of us are used to riding a carpet of Springs while in battle. Now it's going to require a bit more thought. But we're resourceful, we'll adapt. My guess is that because ZOS' servers won't have to calculate 3,000 layered healing springs that lag might be a tad better. Hopefully. I'd definitely sacrifice the magic carpet of healing goodness for a bit of a free up from the lag dragon.
Only for ball groups that used #s and had no skill. This change will finally separate the good healers from the bad in PvP and PvE. No one skill should be REQUIRED to play the game in my opinion, yet that was and is true for a large portion of the game right now. I heal in PvE and PvP and look forward to the nerfs.
Oh please. Stop with the "ball groups have no skill". And this will separate the "good from the bad". I've been healing in pvp since the beginning in both small and large groups. And to be honest, we need to encourage more players to be healers cause there is actually a lack of them. Now I'm not 100% against the Healing Springs changes. But I'm not 100% for them as well. But regardless, all that this will lead to is an army of Cleanse healers. And the heal from Cleanse got buffed. Layering a group with Hots is still possible, and it has always been the purges that keep groups moving.
As a side note, you are likely to see dedicated Rapid spammers in groups now. It's cheaper and lasts 8 secs even if you heal or deal dmg. Be prepared to be run over like a freight train.
I'm not saying they don't, but I will say yours doesn't.
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Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭The nerfs to healers, dps(both mag and stam), and tanks are too high. They should be toned down. Damage, heals, sustain, shields, sets........ have already been nerfed many times. None of these changes will stop PvP from being a die and respawn festival, and none of these changes will make overland content harder. A lot of people come to mmo's for fun in combat, not to beat their heads on the wall for 3 weeks, or to be powerless glass dpses, tanks and healers, because of poor balancing decisions. The more abilities get nerfed and stripped away from the players, the less fun the game becomes.
The game shouldn't be balanced for the few over- and underachievers, who are the minority of players. It should be balanced for the majority imho.
Best wishes allEdited by Arrodisia on July 9, 2019 11:20AM6 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭This patch represents an opportunity for the truly talented healers to simply adapt and learn new strategies to do their job. The trash healers will continue to cry and complain because god forbid they learn how to do something other than mash a few spells ad nauseum:
- Major Slayer uptime is getting nerfed - deal with it.
- If you want frequent synergies, slot other skills to provide more of them.
- If you want more healing sources, slot other skills to provide more of it.
It's time for healers to finally develop a proper healing rotation of many spells, rather than spamming a few spells. Adapt.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »CipherNine wrote: »They are destroying the healing role. There is no point in running a healer now. Just have the DDs run echoing vigor. The only place we might be needed is veteran trials. gee thats so fun.
The lead of the combat team is PvP guy. So us PvEers will just get the shaft every patch. Which is really stupid. This is a Elder Scrolls game. With a majority of PvE players. they do nothing but cater to PVP players. Im sick of it.
Please stop with these conspiracy theories about “a PvP guy ruining PvE“ or whatsoever, it’s silly and doesn’t add anything to the discussion.
No, they are not destroying the healer role with this patch. Healers were barely needed before the changes in dungeons, that’s true, but this has nothing to do with PvP balance and they’re absolutely not catering solely to PvP players, they never had and they never will.
This PvE vs. PvP discussion when someone dislike changes that are/were made is fruitless.
Have you rad some of Wheeler's comments.It's not a theory at this point.It's blatantly obvious.3 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »This patch represents an opportunity for the truly talented healers to simply adapt and learn new strategies to do their job. The trash healers will continue to cry and complain because god forbid they learn how to do something other than mash a few spells ad nauseum:
- Major Slayer uptime is getting nerfed - deal with it.
- If you want frequent synergies, slot other skills to provide more of them.
- If you want more healing sources, slot other skills to provide more of it.
It's time for healers to finally develop a proper healing rotation of many spells, rather than spamming a few spells. Adapt.
Just that there aren't that many Skills providing Synergies. Some don't even properly work out/aren't good to use in some Raids.😅2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
In this game they are resources batteries as you put it.
Not according to the role definition in the Activity Finder they aren't.
According to this game: a healer's job is to: Heal and protect allies, keeping them alive throughout the battle. I see nothing in that description about being a resource battery.
FFS- give it a *** rest already. You know what they call a fanatic? Someone that can’t change their mind and won’t change the subject.
How does posting the in-game definition of a healer make someone a "fanatic"?
lol
What a ridiculous post. You're the one who needs to "give it a rest already". You and your cohorts do not get to redefine what the role of healer is just because you want them to serve as your personal resource _____.Edited by Jeremy on July 9, 2019 6:21PM0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I refused to play a healer for a long time because it's a big responsibility and it makes me anxious. But I eventually leveled a templar and tried healing with him, and it wasn't awful, so I felt good that I could occasionally step in and take the healer role so that my friends aren't always stuck with healing if they'd rather play something else for a change. I even got brave enough to try healing with other classes and while I found NB to be pretty hair-raising I still managed to be semi-okay with it and determined to just learn to do better. This? No. I'm terrified now. I won't be healing anymore, I'm not up to it...and I will not have the chance to develop the skill to be better at it, because people don't want to die and will just get way experienced people to do it instead.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mayasunrising wrote: »I'm okay with the changes. I'm using an argonian warden and between layering circle heals, frontal cone heals, and targeted heals, it's - if anything - overkill healing (#ironicwordpairings). That's in PvE of course.
In PvPland, I know it's going to be a huge change. So many of us are used to riding a carpet of Springs while in battle. Now it's going to require a bit more thought. But we're resourceful, we'll adapt. My guess is that because ZOS' servers won't have to calculate 3,000 layered healing springs that lag might be a tad better. Hopefully. I'd definitely sacrifice the magic carpet of healing goodness for a bit of a free up from the lag dragon.
Only for ball groups that used #s and had no skill. This change will finally separate the good healers from the bad in PvP and PvE. No one skill should be REQUIRED to play the game in my opinion, yet that was and is true for a large portion of the game right now. I heal in PvE and PvP and look forward to the nerfs.
Oh please. Stop with the "ball groups have no skill". And this will separate the "good from the bad". I've been healing in pvp since the beginning in both small and large groups. And to be honest, we need to encourage more players to be healers cause there is actually a lack of them. Now I'm not 100% against the Healing Springs changes. But I'm not 100% for them as well. But regardless, all that this will lead to is an army of Cleanse healers. And the heal from Cleanse got buffed. Layering a group with Hots is still possible, and it has always been the purges that keep groups moving.
As a side note, you are likely to see dedicated Rapid spammers in groups now. It's cheaper and lasts 8 secs even if you heal or deal dmg. Be prepared to be run over like a freight train.MehrunesFlagon wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
In this game they are resources batteries as you put it.
Not according to the role definition in the Activity Finder they aren't.
According to this game: a healer's job is to: Heal and protect allies, keeping them alive throughout the battle. I see nothing in that description about being a resource battery.
Don't use that load of garbage for a definition.
Sorry but that's not a "load of garbage". That is how the game itself defines the job of healers. And I'll take the game's definition over your own.
To the contrary.The gf is not a dictionary.You cannot use such things to define something when the game has such a crappy ui.
Oh I can - and will.
The in-game description of what a healer's role is certainly valid to this debate. You don't like me to bring it up because it counters your claim healers are simply meant to be resource batteries on this game. Unfortunately for your argument - the game disagrees with you.0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
In this game they are resources batteries as you put it.
Not according to the role definition in the Activity Finder they aren't.
According to this game: a healer's job is to: Heal and protect allies, keeping them alive throughout the battle. I see nothing in that description about being a resource battery.
FFS- give it a *** rest already. You know what they call a fanatic? Someone that can’t change their mind and won’t change the subject.
How does posting the in-game definition of a healer make someone a "fanatic"?
lol
What a ridiculous post. You're the one who needs to "give it a res already". You and your cohorts do not get to redefine what the role of healer is just because you want them to serve as your personal resource _____.
I'm going to keep saying it. Healers are also support in this game. If it were up to me you wouldn't be able to enter/stay a dungeon without orbs/shards and ele drain.Would be an auto kick feature.It is what the game requires, thus that is what the description is going to be.0 -
Jamdarius✭✭✭✭✭2 – 833 Spell Critical
3 – 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – 833 Spell Critical
5 – Whenever you critically heal or critically damage a target, spawn a ball of Hemoglobin at their location. After 2 seconds the ball explodes, restoring 3470 Magicka and applying Minor Vitality to you and your allies within 6 meters of the ball for 9 seconds, increasing their healing received by 8%. This effect can occur once every 9 seconds
Looks to me that mag DDs wont have any troubles in trials where you use to stack
So sentinel of Rkugamz and this set to cover the stamina group sustain eh ?
Sentinel of Rkugamz
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 2% Healing Done
(2 items) When you heal a friendly target, you have a 10% chance to summon a dwemer spider that heals for 1049 Health and restores 524 Stamina to you and your allies within 5 meters every 1 second for 8 seconds. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
or to be good for 1 more lucky fella no matter primary resource
Symphony of Blades
LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160
(1 items) Adds 2% Healing Done
(2 items) When you heal an ally whose primary resource is under 50%, grant them Meridia’s Favor, restoring 2325 of that resource every 1 second for 6 seconds. 18 second cooldown0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
The real problem is this game doesn't have a support class - so people look to healers and tanks to provide buffs to damage and resource regeneration instead of actual tanking and healing.
From what I've seen - these new changes are actually beneficial to healers who are not Templars.
Regeneration:
Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
Increased cost to 2700 from 2160.
Rapid Regeneration (morph): This morph now doubles the frequency but halves the duration.
Alchuri Templar Healer /dps
The regen from Restoration Staff is one of the better heals available to all healers - especially after these buffs if this insert is to be believed. So from a pure healing perspective - It's hard for me to see how these changes are anything but a buff to healers generally - including the non Templar variety. Healers aren't suppose to be resource batteries anyway. They are suppose to be, well... healers.
In this game they are resources batteries as you put it.
Not according to the role definition in the Activity Finder they aren't.
According to this game: a healer's job is to: Heal and protect allies, keeping them alive throughout the battle. I see nothing in that description about being a resource battery.
FFS- give it a *** rest already. You know what they call a fanatic? Someone that can’t change their mind and won’t change the subject.
How does posting the in-game definition of a healer make someone a "fanatic"?
lol
What a ridiculous post. You're the one who needs to "give it a res already". You and your cohorts do not get to redefine what the role of healer is just because you want them to serve as your personal resource _____.
I'm going to keep saying it. Healers are also support in this game. If it were up to me you wouldn't be able to enter/stay a dungeon without orbs/shards and ele drain.Would be an auto kick feature.It is what the game requires, thus that is what the description is going to be.
You can say it all you want - but repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it any more true.
The game defines what a healer's role is. So you aren't arguing with me - you're arguing with the people who made the game. And don't worry - I would be kicking people who demand healers use orbs/shards and ele drain too. So we're even on that score.Edited by Jeremy on July 9, 2019 6:27PM1 -
Lisutaris✭✭✭✭✭I don't want to talk about it!!!!
EDIT: The other 10 guys are stucked to the trees outside the gif... dead ofc.Edited by Lisutaris on July 9, 2019 6:28PM3 -
ks888✭✭✭✭K so I had a moment of "wtf" when I read them, but then again, it just means, at least for PvP - it's going to come down to more skillful healing. Combat prayer and hasty prayer used to be a big part of my rotation and run high regen vs. higher crit, always have. So it's just going to be relearning my old rotations again and a couple of minor tweaks that I forsee for myself.
However, the orbs thing, at least when it comes ot dmg morph, is going to be annoying as heck if the synergy isn't restricted to group members. In smaller grps, knowing who should be picking up the synergy is manageable, but I imagine in trials this would be a pain in the arse.DC NA - Norri - Khole RIP - [Mostly Outnumbered]** I have too many toons **RIP every alt I deleted - where am I? what year is it?1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »This patch represents an opportunity for the truly talented healers to simply adapt and learn new strategies to do their job. The trash healers will continue to cry and complain because god forbid they learn how to do something other than mash a few spells ad nauseum:
- Major Slayer uptime is getting nerfed - deal with it.
- If you want frequent synergies, slot other skills to provide more of them.
- If you want more healing sources, slot other skills to provide more of it.
It's time for healers to finally develop a proper healing rotation of many spells, rather than spamming a few spells. Adapt.
Yeah, spamming orbs doesn't exactly sound like quality game play to me.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tourist_McGee wrote: »As someone who prefers to tank or heal, i've always been guided by this old adage:
If the Tank dies, it's the Healer's fault.
If the Healer dies, it's the Tank's fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own damned fault.
When i'm healing I consider it my top priority to heal; to keep the tank alive, and then the dps. Being a resource battery for the dps would always be a distant second. That being said, i am new to the game, not yet having a toon that's done anything beyond the early public dungeons, so i've not experienced the part of the game where it's the healers job to be a resource battery.
Same here. A healer's priority should always be to heal and keep their allies alive. That is their primary job.
Support is a secondary function if they choose to adopt it.Edited by Jeremy on July 9, 2019 6:30PM2 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is starting to feel like teaching a special ed. class.Edited by MehrunesFlagon on July 9, 2019 6:31PM3