If you don't like the changes, do something

January1171 · July 2019

I think people are forgetting something very big- these patch notes are for the PTS. By definition, they are still being tested. If you are really unhappy with the changes, you can do something about it. Go to the PTS, play with the changes, and provide your honest and constructive feedback. That's what the PTS is for. So players can test it out and provide feedback that ZOS can work from to make further edits.

xeNNNNN · July 2019

The general issue with this is that when people have jumped on and tested and given feedback. Nothing has changed. Nothing important anyway and when it has its been rare. Very rare.

CipherNine · July 2019

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

Donny_Vito · July 2019

xeNNNNN wrote: »

The general issue with this is that when people have jumped on and tested and given feedback. Nothing has changed. Nothing important anyway and when it has its been rare. Very rare.

Yeah, this has been the history with PTS (from what I can tell).

I'm not on PC, so I don't access the PTS. But from the hundreds of threads I have read, it appears that players do provide a lot of feedback. In the case for the Necromancer and Elsweyr release, tons of feedback was given about bugs and discrepancies, and these same issues are still present.

Edit: typo

idk · July 2019

You are correct about doing something. Testing is very important. Testing so you can provide an educated feedback.

Yes, 2/3 of players cannot test because they are on console, but even then they can provide constructive feedback vs just complaining.

CipherNine wrote: »

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

You are wrong.

Zos has made many changes on the PTS before going live. On of the most notable changes made based on player feedback was to shields when Zos added the cast time. Much of the commentary was from the PvE side and due to well thought feedback Zos made changes.

Zacuel · July 2019

Console pleb here. So making HOW DARE YOU posts is doing my part.

rotaugen454 · July 2019

I’ve tried nothing and I’m all out of ideas!

xeNNNNN · July 2019

idk wrote: »

You are correct about doing something. Testing is very important. Testing so you can provide an educated feedback.

Yes, 2/3 of players cannot test because they are on console, but even then they can provide constructive feedback vs just complaining.

CipherNine wrote: »

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

You are wrong.

Zos has made many changes on the PTS before going live. On of the most notable changes made based on player feedback was to shields when Zos added the cast time. Much of the commentary was from the PvE side and due to well thought feedback Zos made changes.

I agree that they do listen to the community but not all the time. But with the PTS its not what makes it to PTS that is the problem its that whatever makes it to PTS Might as well be live anyway as a lot of horrible changes tend to make it through regardless of feedback being inherently negative towards those changes. Thus nobody has faith in the PTS anymore.

Of course some things do change but a majority of the time? No.

oxygen_thief · July 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

Donny_Vito · July 2019

xeNNNNN wrote: »

idk wrote: »

You are correct about doing something. Testing is very important. Testing so you can provide an educated feedback.

Yes, 2/3 of players cannot test because they are on console, but even then they can provide constructive feedback vs just complaining.

CipherNine wrote: »

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

You are wrong.

Zos has made many changes on the PTS before going live. On of the most notable changes made based on player feedback was to shields when Zos added the cast time. Much of the commentary was from the PvE side and due to well thought feedback Zos made changes.

I agree that they do listen to the community but not all the time. But with the PTS its not what makes it to PTS that is the problem its that whatever makes it to PTS Might as well be live anyway as a lot of horrible changes tend to make it through regardless of feedback being inherently negative towards those changes. Thus nobody has faith in the PTS anymore.

I think the bold part is the real focal point of the problem.

Zathras · July 2019

January1171 wrote: »

I think people are forgetting something very big- these patch notes are for the PTS. By definition, they are still being tested. If you are really unhappy with the changes, you can do something about it. Go to the PTS, play with the changes, and provide your honest and constructive feedback. That's what the PTS is for. So players can test it out and provide feedback that ZOS can work from to make further edits.

Have you participated on the PTS?

99% of what is in those feedback threads is ignored, and the changes get pushed through anyway. They use players to catch major bugs, not help them develop their game.

When Nerfmire hit the PTS, there were threads filled with dozens and dozens of pages of well though out alternatives for some of the more drastic changes. Zero dev comments. Zero changes. Now, copy/paste that to every cycle, and you can see why the community just uses the PTS as a preview for new content, and to prepare for gear as well as new builds.

dennissomb16_ESO · July 2019

Have you participated on the PTS?

99% of what is in those feedback threads is ignored, and the changes get pushed through anyway. They use players to catch major bugs, not help them develop their game.

[/quote]

This. Unfortunately the PTS is used for catching bugs not for feedback on changes. There is so little response from ZOS on feedback outside of bugs it is no wonder people simply stop giving feedback

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

+1

Eraldus · July 2019

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

No, it's not a pvp game. What's with these idiotic claims that ESO is a "pvp game" being passed around here?

Is this some kind of troll/joke statement people are throwing around, because they think it's funny?

SassiestAssassin · July 2019

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

... PvP is literally the minority of actual game content though? You’ve got Cyrodiil, Imperial City, and Battlegrounds. Everything else is literally PvE unless I’m missing something?

rotaugen454 · July 2019

Eraldus wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

No, it's not a pvp game. What's with these idiotic claims that ESO is a "pvp game" being passed around here?

Is this some kind of troll/joke statement people are throwing around, because they think it's funny?

If ESO tossed PvP, it would take a big hit. If it tossed PvE, it would die.

CipherNine · July 2019

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

What a delusional statement. PvP is a mini-game. A broken one at that. ESO would have been vastly better off without it. This is Elder Scrolls a game that is majority PvE players because that is obviously what Elder Scrolls attracts. Without PvP all the resources could have gone to what a Elder Scrolls game is about, The Story, the questing, you know real RPG aspects. Also more and better group content. No nerfs that ruin PvE for the sake of PvP.

Agenericname · July 2019

SassiestAssassin wrote: »

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

... PvP is literally the minority of actual game content though? You’ve got Cyrodiil, Imperial City, and Battlegrounds. Everything else is literally PvE unless I’m missing something?

And Mid Year Mayhem...oh...nevermind.

TequilaFire · July 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

What a delusional statement. PvP is a mini-game. A broken one at that. ESO would have been vastly better off without it. This is Elder Scrolls a game that is majority PvE players because that is obviously what Elder Scrolls attracts. Without PvP all the resources could have gone to what a Elder Scrolls game is about, The Story, the questing, you know real RPG aspects. Also more and better group content. No nerfs that ruin PvE for the sake of PvP.

Then why are people so eager to pay to skip all those RPG aspects?

Salvas_Aren · July 2019

I still test the idea of never-ever putting money into that game again.

Eraldus · July 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

What a delusional statement. PvP is a mini-game. A broken one at that. ESO would have been vastly better off without it. This is Elder Scrolls a game that is majority PvE players because that is obviously what Elder Scrolls attracts. Without PvP all the resources could have gone to what a Elder Scrolls game is about, The Story, the questing, you know real RPG aspects. Also more and better group content. No nerfs that ruin PvE for the sake of PvP.

Then why are people so eager to pay to skip all those RPG aspects?

Are you referring to the buyable Undaunted, Psijic and other similar skill lines? Not everyone is gonna pay for those... I, for one, will neve pay for stuff like skyshards or skill lines, when I can just unlock them by actually playing the game.

Don't assume everybody will just drop real money on the game for stuff like that.

TequilaFire · July 2019

Eraldus wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

What a delusional statement. PvP is a mini-game. A broken one at that. ESO would have been vastly better off without it. This is Elder Scrolls a game that is majority PvE players because that is obviously what Elder Scrolls attracts. Without PvP all the resources could have gone to what a Elder Scrolls game is about, The Story, the questing, you know real RPG aspects. Also more and better group content. No nerfs that ruin PvE for the sake of PvP.

Then why are people so eager to pay to skip all those RPG aspects?

Are you referring to the buyable Undaunted, Psijic and other similar skill lines? Not everyone is gonna pay for those... I, for one, will neve pay for stuff like skyshards or skill lines, when I can just unlock them by actually playing the game.

Don't assume everybody will just drop real money on the game for stuff like that.

I assume nothing, but there sure are a lot of posts of those that do support it.

MLGProPlayer · July 2019

January1171 wrote: »

provide feedback that ZOS can work from to make further edits.

MLGProPlayer · July 2019

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

Sadly this.

As soon as ZOS promoted Wheeler to combat design lead, it was evident they saw ESO as a PvP game.

Numerikuu · July 2019

January1171 wrote: »

I think people are forgetting something very big- these patch notes are for the PTS. By definition, they are still being tested. If you are really unhappy with the changes, you can do something about it. Go to the PTS, play with the changes, and provide your honest and constructive feedback. That's what the PTS is for. So players can test it out and provide feedback that ZOS can work from to make further edits.

How to tell that someone has never actually used PTS: I present the above, exhibit A.

That's what PTS 'should' be for, but it isn't here. Feedback, bugs and technical issues get called out WEEKS before *** goes live, and the vast majority of it gets completely and utterly ignored. Things get pushed despite being BROKEN. It's been a common theme for years now, and it's gotten to the point where less people are bothering to use the PTS to actually test because why? Why bother when your feedback is ignored?

The main thing it seems to be used for now days is to pre-prep for 'worlds first' trail crap, and to see what the next best meta/skill setup will be.

Lylith · July 2019

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

is it?

other than bgs, seems to me eso has two zones for pvp and nearly thirty for pve as well as a large number of dlc dungeons.

eta: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483933/do-you-mostly-pvp-or-pve#latest

Kalgert · July 2019

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

No. It ain't a PvP game. And if it is, then it's a PvP game where no one really cares about PvP for in a serious manner.

Eraldus wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

No, it's not a pvp game. What's with these idiotic claims that ESO is a "pvp game" being passed around here?

Is this some kind of troll/joke statement people are throwing around, because they think it's funny?

I think there is still that small subset of people that are still living in the world of "This game was marketed with PvP in mind, ergo it is and always has been a PvP game!"... Even though the game pretty much strayed in to the lands of PvE and hasn't paid PvP all that much attention in terms of content (Which is weird when you consider how they keep trying to balance abilities around PvP...)

Jaraal · July 2019

Eraldus wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

No, it's not a pvp game. What's with these idiotic claims that ESO is a "pvp game" being passed around here?

Is this some kind of troll/joke statement people are throwing around, because they think it's funny?

Virtually every change made to existing skills and gear is for PvP "balance." Case in point: blowing up decades of Bosmer lore and pulling a racial useful to everyone and replacing it with a PvP only skill. And that's just one example out of hundreds.

It might be funny if it were a joke, but it's a reality millions of players have to deal with every day.

SirAxen · July 2019

If you feel strongly about something, you should: A.) Go actually test it and see for yourself instead of knee jerking. B.) Provide constructive feedback in the proper sticky threads provided by ZOS so they can be seen. C.) Actually do both A and B instead of hiding behind the excuse of 'They never change anything anyway' when they actually have and do if valid arguments are provided to actually convince them otherwise. Kicking and screaming doesn't change someones plans.

MehrunesFlagon · July 2019

oxygen_thief wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Yeah GL with that. Tons of bugs are always reported on the PTS. Players always give constructive feedback after playing the PTS. Nothing changes. The patch is always released and those reported bugs are still there.

ZOS does not listen to its playerbase. well unless its the PVPers whining and getting things nerfed. Which is what this whole patch is about. PVP

but its a pvp game. find yourself another pve oriented game and be happy

Delete pvp.

quadraxis666 · July 2019

January1171 wrote: »

I think people are forgetting something very big- these patch notes are for the PTS. By definition, they are still being tested. If you are really unhappy with the changes, you can do something about it. Go to the PTS, play with the changes, and provide your honest and constructive feedback. That's what the PTS is for. So players can test it out and provide feedback that ZOS can work from to make further edits.

You haven't been around long clearly.
If it made it to PTS it'll make it to live. No amount of constructive feedback will make make any difference.

Zos has proven they don't care what players think in patch after patch after patch since the game began.