IonicKai wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Mrslizardface wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

angeleda wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

oh wow its cute and funny how delusional you all are to think these changes do any of what you say in this thread.

this patch does not stick it to the big meta man. level the playing field? lol oh gee what are you smoking? it's hilarious that you all think it kills any meta it doesn't. it does the exact opposite of what you seem to think it does.

Gl being a healer if your not a Templar. That is what groups will prefer because Templar has spear shards. now that Necrotic Orb is practically useless.

"Killing the tankDD meta of 1h shield heavy armor" wtf are you thinking with this? the tank meta will still be 1h Shield with heavy armor.
Gl being a tank if your not a DK. Since Silver Leash is now nerfed. Groups will prefer DK because of chains even more now.

But sure celebrate changes that just further narrows your options of how to play. They are taking away all options that non-meta classes had to compensate for not having what the meta classes had.

Oh yay that just so awesome for diversity isn't it? Oh wait its NOT.

You do realize i said the tankDD meta, right?... Where everyone in pvp (CP is even worse) is a stamDK (or petsorc for other reasons and different setup/gear) with 1h/shield and 2h that both did a good amount of damage, heavy armor and being able to tank 6-7-8-9-10+ people while getting enough dmg to start wiping them...

And no, im not talking about 1vXing being an issue, but only 2 classes can pull that because of ...you guessed it: "imbalances"

Try to make a tanky af, 1h shield, heavy armor, damage dealer pvp build and link me... If you are able to kill even a single player (not a potato one) next patch, i'll give you a cookie, my guy...

Face it:

Stam damage? Medium armor
Mag Damage? Light armor
*** tank or tank in PvE? 1h shield heavy
Healer/healing? Resto staff

Clear distinctions

And they did not take ANY viable options out... the only options they took away was the ones that created those imbalances that could be achieved only with certain classes... (petsorc and stamDK lately... Stamblade was always cheese and ways to cheese it)

PS. LOL at the "groups will prefer DK tanks with chains even more now" because if you actually are talking about pvp groups running dedicated "tank" with chains... then i feel sorry for you because i am not talking about zergs but competent pvpers/smallscale XD

I wasn't talking about PvP with anything I said. I don't give a flying F about PVP.

Really? they didn't take ANY viable options out? are you freaking kidding me? Necrotic Orb gave none meta healing classes an option to be viable. With it being nerfed to the ground there is no options for the class. period. Now Templar with spear shards is the only viable option.
The healing springs change is another beyond stupid change. The PVE especially vet content has been designed around it. nerfing it to the ground with no other viable option to use makes no sense.

It's funny how pvpers say the changes are good even though they don't consider how these changes effect pve content for healers...

Well its no surprise, PVPers have always been the most selfish players. They never care how much changes completely screw over the PVE aspect of the game.
ESO has been balanced around PVP from the start and they act like ZOS just ignores them LOL. Its rather funny. Then PVE is just left to where the chips fall no matter how broken the changes make it.

I'm pretty sure trials & dungeons will still have groups clearing them. Notes can change, the sky is still up there.

Progression groups that aren't already at the tippy top will be reset to ground level assuming they can even get that far. The encounters in trials were designed with current healing in mind to a large degree and having strong, reactive, group healing was crucial. Think about the last boss in vSO. The poison phase is a flat out heal check that groups could only survive because group healing was strong. Especially your more reasonable group that doesn't have a bunch of 85-100k trial dummy parsers for DPS. Content was just getting to a point where with persistence, skill, and patience more than the top 1-2% of players could start clearing dlc trials and in one patch that will be taken away if things stay as they are. Nerfmire has nothing on the sweeping changes they are proposing and not seeing that only PvP really has anything to gain from this is ignorance at its peak. This is a flat nerf to almost every play style and nerf especially will be the death of most progression groups for months to years. The PVE crowd is so much larger than PvP and many of those PVE players also play some PvP and they will likely give up on this game if they get nerfed this hard. Your PvP balance will be great but only solo players that are here for the story, the top trial groups, and hard core PvP players will be left in a relatively short time. This is bad for the game and while it will temporarily lead to a performance improvement as people leave it will halt the growth the game has been having. If they want to make sweeping combat changes they cannot make them in big batches. Anyone that has ever programmed something in their life understands this. They need to take combat as a slow steady methodical approach where they release frequent small changes and see how they play out.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Mrslizardface wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

angeleda wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

oh wow its cute and funny how delusional you all are to think these changes do any of what you say in this thread.

this patch does not stick it to the big meta man. level the playing field? lol oh gee what are you smoking? it's hilarious that you all think it kills any meta it doesn't. it does the exact opposite of what you seem to think it does.

Gl being a healer if your not a Templar. That is what groups will prefer because Templar has spear shards. now that Necrotic Orb is practically useless.

"Killing the tankDD meta of 1h shield heavy armor" wtf are you thinking with this? the tank meta will still be 1h Shield with heavy armor.
Gl being a tank if your not a DK. Since Silver Leash is now nerfed. Groups will prefer DK because of chains even more now.

But sure celebrate changes that just further narrows your options of how to play. They are taking away all options that non-meta classes had to compensate for not having what the meta classes had.

Oh yay that just so awesome for diversity isn't it? Oh wait its NOT.

You do realize i said the tankDD meta, right?... Where everyone in pvp (CP is even worse) is a stamDK (or petsorc for other reasons and different setup/gear) with 1h/shield and 2h that both did a good amount of damage, heavy armor and being able to tank 6-7-8-9-10+ people while getting enough dmg to start wiping them...

And no, im not talking about 1vXing being an issue, but only 2 classes can pull that because of ...you guessed it: "imbalances"

Try to make a tanky af, 1h shield, heavy armor, damage dealer pvp build and link me... If you are able to kill even a single player (not a potato one) next patch, i'll give you a cookie, my guy...

Face it:

Stam damage? Medium armor
Mag Damage? Light armor
*** tank or tank in PvE? 1h shield heavy
Healer/healing? Resto staff

Clear distinctions

And they did not take ANY viable options out... the only options they took away was the ones that created those imbalances that could be achieved only with certain classes... (petsorc and stamDK lately... Stamblade was always cheese and ways to cheese it)

PS. LOL at the "groups will prefer DK tanks with chains even more now" because if you actually are talking about pvp groups running dedicated "tank" with chains... then i feel sorry for you because i am not talking about zergs but competent pvpers/smallscale XD

I wasn't talking about PvP with anything I said. I don't give a flying F about PVP.

Really? they didn't take ANY viable options out? are you freaking kidding me? Necrotic Orb gave none meta healing classes an option to be viable. With it being nerfed to the ground there is no options for the class. period. Now Templar with spear shards is the only viable option.
The healing springs change is another beyond stupid change. The PVE especially vet content has been designed around it. nerfing it to the ground with no other viable option to use makes no sense.

It's funny how pvpers say the changes are good even though they don't consider how these changes effect pve content for healers...

Well its no surprise, PVPers have always been the most selfish players. They never care how much changes completely screw over the PVE aspect of the game.
ESO has been balanced around PVP from the start and they act like ZOS just ignores them LOL. Its rather funny. Then PVE is just left to where the chips fall no matter how broken the changes make it.

I'm pretty sure trials & dungeons will still have groups clearing them. Notes can change, the sky is still up there.

Progression groups that aren't already at the tippy top will be reset to ground level assuming they can even get that far. The encounters in trials were designed with current healing in mind to a large degree and having strong, reactive, group healing was crucial. Think about the last boss in vSO. The poison phase is a flat out heal check that groups could only survive because group healing was strong. Especially your more reasonable group that doesn't have a bunch of 85-100k trial dummy parsers for DPS. Content was just getting to a point where with persistence, skill, and patience more than the top 1-2% of players could start clearing dlc trials and in one patch that will be taken away if things stay as they are. Nerfmire has nothing on the sweeping changes they are proposing and not seeing that only PvP really has anything to gain from this is ignorance at its peak. This is a flat nerf to almost every play style and nerf especially will be the death of most progression groups for months to years. The PVE crowd is so much larger than PvP and many of those PVE players also play some PvP and they will likely give up on this game if they get nerfed this hard. Your PvP balance will be great but only solo players that are here for the story, the top trial groups, and hard core PvP players will be left in a relatively short time. This is bad for the game and while it will temporarily lead to a performance improvement as people leave it will halt the growth the game has been having. If they want to make sweeping combat changes they cannot make them in big batches. Anyone that has ever programmed something in their life understands this. They need to take combat as a slow steady methodical approach where they release frequent small changes and see how they play out.

"The PVE crowd is so much larger than PvP"
Is a false narrative that says the pve playerbase is some monolithic demographic hit the hardest by balance changes. Let's really break that down.

PvE: Open to all, sub/dlc/xpacs not required.

Casual, group or solo. Questers, rp, base game normal dungeons/trial, achievement hunters, CS, & housing.

All content that you can "play how you want"...Nord DD WW using a resto staff/bow build. Build/playstyle doesn't matter.

PvP: Open to all, sub/dlc/xpacs not required.

Cyrodiil, bg, & IC

Casual to hardcore, zerg-group-solo. All content that you can "play how you want". Not a esport.

Endgame PvE: Sub/dlc/xpac required for progression.

Group playstyle/build min-max required. DLC dungeons & trials: normal, vet, & hardmode.

Yes these different playstyles crossover a lot, but like all mmorpg's the hardcore endgame pve demographic is the smallest.

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

If these patch notes somehow excite you, you're probably terrible at math and have no idea what any of the numbers actually mean.

Either that or you're a masochist.

You have entered a topic created by the Legendy Hero of the Covenant @angeleda so bow down and be humbled by his great wisdom on the patch notes.

If he says something - it is the truth.

Like a year ago i found his wisdom, when i started to fight for the Covenant at old Sotha Sil PC/EU campaign, one of first things i saw was his message on zone at a battle where swarms of bananas attacked our outpost and most DC people was up and pew pewing from upstairs: "It is not even UA yet, come down and attack them, upstairs is not a **** so you don`t have to sit on it."

Ultimate truth that both made me smile and realize i had found home.

Now bow down mortals and listen to the wisdom.

It is a great patch. Resistance to changes is something that each of us have to deal with occasionally. Things like Springs spam was not exactly exciting gameplay. The patch is here, the patch of git gud. Rejoice!

PS: I respect for everyone having the right to vent about these also. So you got my sympathy too, trust me.. i`ve been there lol, i vent full nuts over the racial changes before the adjustments to them lol. Still a bit salty to be honest, Bosmer.. why u no Sneaky anymore.

IonicKai wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

IonicKai wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

Mrslizardface wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

angeleda wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

oh wow its cute and funny how delusional you all are to think these changes do any of what you say in this thread.

this patch does not stick it to the big meta man. level the playing field? lol oh gee what are you smoking? it's hilarious that you all think it kills any meta it doesn't. it does the exact opposite of what you seem to think it does.

Gl being a healer if your not a Templar. That is what groups will prefer because Templar has spear shards. now that Necrotic Orb is practically useless.

"Killing the tankDD meta of 1h shield heavy armor" wtf are you thinking with this? the tank meta will still be 1h Shield with heavy armor.
Gl being a tank if your not a DK. Since Silver Leash is now nerfed. Groups will prefer DK because of chains even more now.

But sure celebrate changes that just further narrows your options of how to play. They are taking away all options that non-meta classes had to compensate for not having what the meta classes had.

Oh yay that just so awesome for diversity isn't it? Oh wait its NOT.

You do realize i said the tankDD meta, right?... Where everyone in pvp (CP is even worse) is a stamDK (or petsorc for other reasons and different setup/gear) with 1h/shield and 2h that both did a good amount of damage, heavy armor and being able to tank 6-7-8-9-10+ people while getting enough dmg to start wiping them...

And no, im not talking about 1vXing being an issue, but only 2 classes can pull that because of ...you guessed it: "imbalances"

Try to make a tanky af, 1h shield, heavy armor, damage dealer pvp build and link me... If you are able to kill even a single player (not a potato one) next patch, i'll give you a cookie, my guy...

Face it:

Stam damage? Medium armor
Mag Damage? Light armor
*** tank or tank in PvE? 1h shield heavy
Healer/healing? Resto staff

Clear distinctions

And they did not take ANY viable options out... the only options they took away was the ones that created those imbalances that could be achieved only with certain classes... (petsorc and stamDK lately... Stamblade was always cheese and ways to cheese it)

PS. LOL at the "groups will prefer DK tanks with chains even more now" because if you actually are talking about pvp groups running dedicated "tank" with chains... then i feel sorry for you because i am not talking about zergs but competent pvpers/smallscale XD

I wasn't talking about PvP with anything I said. I don't give a flying F about PVP.

Really? they didn't take ANY viable options out? are you freaking kidding me? Necrotic Orb gave none meta healing classes an option to be viable. With it being nerfed to the ground there is no options for the class. period. Now Templar with spear shards is the only viable option.
The healing springs change is another beyond stupid change. The PVE especially vet content has been designed around it. nerfing it to the ground with no other viable option to use makes no sense.

It's funny how pvpers say the changes are good even though they don't consider how these changes effect pve content for healers...

Well its no surprise, PVPers have always been the most selfish players. They never care how much changes completely screw over the PVE aspect of the game.
ESO has been balanced around PVP from the start and they act like ZOS just ignores them LOL. Its rather funny. Then PVE is just left to where the chips fall no matter how broken the changes make it.

I'm pretty sure trials & dungeons will still have groups clearing them. Notes can change, the sky is still up there.

Progression groups that aren't already at the tippy top will be reset to ground level assuming they can even get that far. The encounters in trials were designed with current healing in mind to a large degree and having strong, reactive, group healing was crucial. Think about the last boss in vSO. The poison phase is a flat out heal check that groups could only survive because group healing was strong. Especially your more reasonable group that doesn't have a bunch of 85-100k trial dummy parsers for DPS. Content was just getting to a point where with persistence, skill, and patience more than the top 1-2% of players could start clearing dlc trials and in one patch that will be taken away if things stay as they are. Nerfmire has nothing on the sweeping changes they are proposing and not seeing that only PvP really has anything to gain from this is ignorance at its peak. This is a flat nerf to almost every play style and nerf especially will be the death of most progression groups for months to years. The PVE crowd is so much larger than PvP and many of those PVE players also play some PvP and they will likely give up on this game if they get nerfed this hard. Your PvP balance will be great but only solo players that are here for the story, the top trial groups, and hard core PvP players will be left in a relatively short time. This is bad for the game and while it will temporarily lead to a performance improvement as people leave it will halt the growth the game has been having. If they want to make sweeping combat changes they cannot make them in big batches. Anyone that has ever programmed something in their life understands this. They need to take combat as a slow steady methodical approach where they release frequent small changes and see how they play out.

"The PVE crowd is so much larger than PvP"
Is a false narrative that says the pve playerbase is some monolithic demographic hit the hardest by balance changes. Let's really break that down.

PvE: Open to all, sub/dlc/xpacs not required.

Casual, group or solo. Questers, rp, base game normal dungeons/trial, achievement hunters, CS, & housing.

All content that you can "play how you want"...Nord DD WW using a resto staff/bow build. Build/playstyle doesn't matter.

PvP: Open to all, sub/dlc/xpacs not required.

Cyrodiil, bg, & IC

Casual to hardcore, zerg-group-solo. All content that you can "play how you want". Not a esport.

Endgame PvE: Sub/dlc/xpac required for progression.

Group playstyle/build min-max required. DLC dungeons & trials: normal, vet, & hardmode.

Yes these different playstyles crossover a lot, but like all mmorpg's the hardcore endgame pve demographic is the smallest.

Endgame score pushers are a small group but there are a ridiculous number of players trying to complete vet dlc dungeons and vet trials in general. People want the gear and the challenge and let's not forget the skins that are so highly coveted. Many people play PvP but most of them are like the players that casually quest. They have very little invested in the games actual mechanics and just run around in a pack or try to group up with their friends.

CipherNine wrote: »

Things in the PTS rarely change that much. So when this patch goes live its going to hilarious when all the people praising this patch are here on the forums turning around and bitching about how frustrating group content is now.

This patch hurts the mid tier portion of the player base that just did vet dungeons and vet trials that could just barely get through them.

I can't wait till all the delusional people that is praising this patch are bitching here on the forums that there pug groups for vet dungeons and the pug trials from craglorn are a complete failure and full of massive frustrations then they ever was. Because the DPS from mediocre players and the heals from mediocre healers are gonna be much worse then they was before. Have fun with those pug groups.

This patch only further narrows the meta and gives you even less viable options than before. If you think that is good for the game you are delusional.