Why are drops so bad for some players? (Resolved: finally got a Pellitene motif yay)

LadySinflower · July 2019

Minyassa wrote: »

The RNG *is* sinister. I am convinced that it is a malevolent entity that takes a dislike to some people and goes out of its way to deny them anything that would make them especially happy. Case in point--I loathe bears. I buy very, very few crown crates, just don't like to spend money on that, but sometimes I need gems. In the crown crates I have bought as well as those I have been given as gifts AND the free ones that were given out in past, I have won 2 apex mounts. Guess what they were! Yep, bears. In fact, I got a bear right away the very first crate I opened when the Psijic crates were out and I would have given my left pinky toe for that purple radiant horse. That's like the ultimate mount for me, I wanted it so very badly. So the RNG knew that and said nope. You get a bear. Because eff you.

That's how it do.

I know how you feel. I am not a dog person. Dogs annoy me in real life and in the game I don't buy any of the dogs or wolves or pups - mounts or pets. So we get that free crown crate from the June dailies with a chance of several cute pets. I'm a cat person. I so badly wanted the little senche, but I also really liked the pony. I already have one dwarven spider pet but wouldn't have minded another. I have two accounts. Guess what I got on BOTH accounts? You guessed it. The Wolf pup. Ok, it was free. And it is cute, for a dog. But I won't be having it follow me around. I'll just continue to cycle through the many feline pets I have. Good old RNGesus, flipping me the proverbial bird one more time.

As if that isn't bad enough, here's another story. My BF and I share the same Xbox. He works all week and has significantly less time to play than I do. I have been religiously learning traits on my main character and leveling up my crafting. I want to be a master crafter at some point. He deconstructs all his researchable gear, has very few traits researched, and most of his crafting skills are still at the first or second tier. Even though his playing time is less he could have been doing research as much as I have (since the research keeps going when you log out). Or characters are at similar CP levels; he's just a bit behind me. Since Elsweyr arrived I've been obsessively farming dragons and urns, sometimes 60 dragons a night, looking for the beautiful Elsweyr furniture plans. I've gotten mostly multiples of greens, a few blues, and maybe half a dozen purples. The unicorn for me is the Elsweyr elegant room divider because I use a lot of dividers in my houses and this one is beautiful. Hundreds and hundreds of dragons and urns, I can't get it to drop. So yesterday he was all excited to tell me "guess what? I got that divider you've been looking for!" And I thought he would offer to sell it to me because his character can't use it. He has miles and miles to go leveling up crafting and putting in skill points before he can make one of those. But what did he do? He memorized it. So it can sit there and go to waste for months while I could be making them for both of us. I was - am - so upset! He has killed maybe 5% of the amount of dragons I have and he gets the one purple plan I want most in the world. This time not only is RNGesus flipping me the bird, but he's showing me his a$$ and laughing at me as he does it.

Whatever determines how drops are didtributed in this game, it hates me. My luck is bad. The ones playing the game around me get what I most desire just so I feel that much worse not getting it myself.

Linaleah · July 2019

redlink1979 wrote: »

Rng... Just that...
You can have the item on 1st attempt or you can take months to grab it. Look at vMA as an example.
If you want to increase your success odds I advise you to run the daily quest with more chars. That's what I do when I have the time, I run them with 8 chars.

it helps but not enough.

I tend to farm Rimmen palace the same way I farmed Monastery (and before that - wardrobe room delve) in summerset, the way I farmed urns in vvardenfel. on 6-10 alts at a time, rotating through (so that by the time I get to the first alt, their containers have reset), over and over, for couple of hours per day. sometimes I get purples. sometimes. most of the time its more common old world purples. some of the people I farm with, doing the same exact type of rotation for the same exact amount of time... get MUCH better drops.

Kiralyn2000 · July 2019

Typical RNG shenanigans, combined with confirmation bias & conspiracy theories = people have all sorts of suspicions about the RNG being out to get them.

Minyassa · July 2019

LadySinflower wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

The RNG *is* sinister. I am convinced that it is a malevolent entity that takes a dislike to some people and goes out of its way to deny them anything that would make them especially happy. Case in point--I loathe bears. I buy very, very few crown crates, just don't like to spend money on that, but sometimes I need gems. In the crown crates I have bought as well as those I have been given as gifts AND the free ones that were given out in past, I have won 2 apex mounts. Guess what they were! Yep, bears. In fact, I got a bear right away the very first crate I opened when the Psijic crates were out and I would have given my left pinky toe for that purple radiant horse. That's like the ultimate mount for me, I wanted it so very badly. So the RNG knew that and said nope. You get a bear. Because eff you.

That's how it do.

I know how you feel. I am not a dog person. Dogs annoy me in real life and in the game I don't buy any of the dogs or wolves or pups - mounts or pets. So we get that free crown crate from the June dailies with a chance of several cute pets. I'm a cat person. I so badly wanted the little senche, but I also really liked the pony. I already have one dwarven spider pet but wouldn't have minded another. I have two accounts. Guess what I got on BOTH accounts? You guessed it. The Wolf pup. Ok, it was free. And it is cute, for a dog. But I won't be having it follow me around. I'll just continue to cycle through the many feline pets I have. Good old RNGesus, flipping me the proverbial bird one more time.

As if that isn't bad enough, here's another story. My BF and I share the same Xbox. He works all week and has significantly less time to play than I do. I have been religiously learning traits on my main character and leveling up my crafting. I want to be a master crafter at some point. He deconstructs all his researchable gear, has very few traits researched, and most of his crafting skills are still at the first or second tier. Even though his playing time is less he could have been doing research as much as I have (since the research keeps going when you log out). Or characters are at similar CP levels; he's just a bit behind me. Since Elsweyr arrived I've been obsessively farming dragons and urns, sometimes 60 dragons a night, looking for the beautiful Elsweyr furniture plans. I've gotten mostly multiples of greens, a few blues, and maybe half a dozen purples. The unicorn for me is the Elsweyr elegant room divider because I use a lot of dividers in my houses and this one is beautiful. Hundreds and hundreds of dragons and urns, I can't get it to drop. So yesterday he was all excited to tell me "guess what? I got that divider you've been looking for!" And I thought he would offer to sell it to me because his character can't use it. He has miles and miles to go leveling up crafting and putting in skill points before he can make one of those. But what did he do? He memorized it. So it can sit there and go to waste for months while I could be making them for both of us. I was - am - so upset! He has killed maybe 5% of the amount of dragons I have and he gets the one purple plan I want most in the world. This time not only is RNGesus flipping me the bird, but he's showing me his a$$ and laughing at me as he does it.

Whatever determines how drops are didtributed in this game, it hates me. My luck is bad. The ones playing the game around me get what I most desire just so I feel that much worse not getting it myself.

Omg what a jerk. You know where he sleeps, though, yeah? It would be such a shame if he woke up to slap at a tickle at his nose and found his hand was full of shaving cream. xD

twev · July 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Typical RNG shenanigans, combined with confirmation bias & conspiracy theories = people have all sorts of suspicions about the RNG being out to get them.

RNG isn't intelligent, and its not 'out to get' anyone.

But its not fairly distributed as one would assume a proper RANDOMLY generated number would be.

No malicious conspiracy involved.

No behind the scenes hi-jinx.

But not equally applied to each individual character, either on a 'per instance of loot awarded' basis, after the seed is generated for a character.
The programming that generates the number uses different weighting per character that has character-specific probability built into the character it's generating the odds for.
The seed may be randomly generated, but once the seed is generated - it follows a probability path unique to a character.

A more equitable system would randomly generate a new random seed for every drop instance.
And every character would have the same odds every time.
More specifically - every CHARACTER should have the same PROBABILITY of an outcome for each loot drop as any other character for a loot drop for a particular instance of loot at any given location or for any given container or battle outcome.

That's all we're saying.

angelncelestine · July 2019

LadySinflower wrote: »

Minyassa wrote: »

The RNG *is* sinister. I am convinced that it is a malevolent entity that takes a dislike to some people and goes out of its way to deny them anything that would make them especially happy. Case in point--I loathe bears. I buy very, very few crown crates, just don't like to spend money on that, but sometimes I need gems. In the crown crates I have bought as well as those I have been given as gifts AND the free ones that were given out in past, I have won 2 apex mounts. Guess what they were! Yep, bears. In fact, I got a bear right away the very first crate I opened when the Psijic crates were out and I would have given my left pinky toe for that purple radiant horse. That's like the ultimate mount for me, I wanted it so very badly. So the RNG knew that and said nope. You get a bear. Because eff you.

That's how it do.

I know how you feel. I am not a dog person. Dogs annoy me in real life and in the game I don't buy any of the dogs or wolves or pups - mounts or pets. So we get that free crown crate from the June dailies with a chance of several cute pets. I'm a cat person. I so badly wanted the little senche, but I also really liked the pony. I already have one dwarven spider pet but wouldn't have minded another. I have two accounts. Guess what I got on BOTH accounts? You guessed it. The Wolf pup. Ok, it was free. And it is cute, for a dog. But I won't be having it follow me around. I'll just continue to cycle through the many feline pets I have. Good old RNGesus, flipping me the proverbial bird one more time.

As if that isn't bad enough, here's another story. My BF and I share the same Xbox. He works all week and has significantly less time to play than I do. I have been religiously learning traits on my main character and leveling up my crafting. I want to be a master crafter at some point. He deconstructs all his researchable gear, has very few traits researched, and most of his crafting skills are still at the first or second tier. Even though his playing time is less he could have been doing research as much as I have (since the research keeps going when you log out). Or characters are at similar CP levels; he's just a bit behind me. Since Elsweyr arrived I've been obsessively farming dragons and urns, sometimes 60 dragons a night, looking for the beautiful Elsweyr furniture plans. I've gotten mostly multiples of greens, a few blues, and maybe half a dozen purples. The unicorn for me is the Elsweyr elegant room divider because I use a lot of dividers in my houses and this one is beautiful. Hundreds and hundreds of dragons and urns, I can't get it to drop. So yesterday he was all excited to tell me "guess what? I got that divider you've been looking for!" And I thought he would offer to sell it to me because his character can't use it. He has miles and miles to go leveling up crafting and putting in skill points before he can make one of those. But what did he do? He memorized it. So it can sit there and go to waste for months while I could be making them for both of us. I was - am - so upset! He has killed maybe 5% of the amount of dragons I have and he gets the one purple plan I want most in the world. This time not only is RNGesus flipping me the bird, but he's showing me his a$$ and laughing at me as he does it.

Whatever determines how drops are didtributed in this game, it hates me. My luck is bad. The ones playing the game around me get what I most desire just so I feel that much worse not getting it myself.

I know the feeling. My husband has played the game on and off throughout the years, and his RNG is much better then mine. Luckily for me he always gave me items that I wanted if he got them. I couldn't even imagine how upset I would be if he would of done what your bf did. O.o I imagine I would be more bitter, and angrier then Zaan from SCP.

KMarble · July 2019

twev wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Typical RNG shenanigans, combined with confirmation bias & conspiracy theories = people have all sorts of suspicions about the RNG being out to get them.

RNG isn't intelligent, and its not 'out to get' anyone.

But its not fairly distributed as one would assume a proper RANDOMLY generated number would be.

No malicious conspiracy involved.

No behind the scenes hi-jinx.

But not equally applied to each individual character, either on a 'per instance of loot awarded' basis, after the seed is generated for a character.
The programming that generates the number uses different weighting per character that has character-specific probability built into the character it's generating the odds for.
The seed may be randomly generated, but once the seed is generated - it follows a probability path unique to a character.

A more equitable system would randomly generate a new random seed for every drop instance.
And every character would have the same odds every time.
More specifically - every CHARACTER should have the same PROBABILITY of an outcome for each loot drop as any other character for a loot drop for a particular instance of loot at any given location or for any given container or battle outcome.

That's all we're saying.

I don't think there is a "seed". Since you're all using your personal experiences to validate the seed theory, I'll use mine to say there is no seed. I only farm with one char.

GENERALLY when I first enter a zone I get no plans or recipe drops. I USUALLY have to clear the whole zone to start getting plans/recipes from it. NORMALLY as I farm an area, the drops will become better (say 5 rounds of only getting whites and greens, then blue ones start showing up and eventually I'll see purples).

If there was a seed, I would be stuck with the above routine/behavior, right?

How can you explain that I got the Breton throne the second time I tried farming for it, in an area where I did little looting? I also go 2 of the 3 Orcish thrones on my first try (again, having looted almost nothing in town before), and the next day I got another throne (a repeat). Haven't gotten any throne since then.

Murkmire and Elsweyr both yielded purple plans when I was starting out in the zones. I seldom get any loot from Murkmire nowadays, but I admit to not going there much. In Elsweyr I got an old purple plan and a few green Elsweyr plans on the first few days, and then nothing. Not even from dragons. Last week I started to get drops again.

It's called random because we - the ones on the receiving end of it - don't know what it will be. One last thing, when there is a (lets say) 50% chance of something happening, that does not mean it will happen for sure every other time. Take coin flipping for example. It has a 50% change (which is pretty good odds, btw) of getting what you want. If you flip a coin twice and get heads on the first flip, that does NOT mean the second flip will guarantee tails.

munchkinxx · July 2019

Many theories are being put forward and dissected here and since the start of the game.

But I don't think anyone has looked at the fact that it is an MMO, not Skyrim etc.

If there is such a seed, rng...chance whatever..it is to enhance the game, not inhibit it.

If everyone had the same chance to pick something up, would trading be necessary or communities that help each other? Using the pledges to get keys, to gain head pieces etc would be under utilised. Purchasing from the PvP vendors would be defunct etc etc.

Areas of the game are pretty much dead zones unless someone posts a YouTube build and suddenly everyone farms it or Devs put in a drop or event. Which again, requires people to work together for completions.

Working together seems more the point of this chance phenomenon, rather than to inhibit the ability to complete a motif set etc.

Connections, friendships and guilds are built this way.

Granted, VMA may be an exception but if you got everything you wanted every time, where is the challenge other than leaderboard, which again involves a chance drop and a gold item.

In the end, there appears to be no formula that will guarantee what you want will drop because it is the intention of an MMO and it keeps it alive.

From a few posts here, it looks as though chance is affected by various mechanisms that could hit at any time, with no player control other than working together and using the platform for what it is. An MMO.