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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Why is break free not exclusive to stamina?
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Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't know why break-free is stamina but, as mostly mage player, I am okay with it.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imagine a set that had the 5th item passive "break free now costs magicka" that is otherwise tailored to a magicka build.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
jdamuso✭✭✭CC spam is horrible. tbh the way i deal with bash necros and stam dk immortals is spam soft ccs till they run out of stamina so they can finally be killed, which in itself requires huge amount of sustain whether spamming bombard with a bow, or ice reach with a staff. OVER and OVER and OVER.
It takes a team of 3 guys 2 dpsing and one spamming immobilize still with this method up to 1-2 minutes to kill one of these stam sustain defensive builds..
If this method is used on ANY magicka based toon that does not have mistform (which makes you go splat to dawnbreakers) About 12 seconds tops for the most versatile of magicka builds. Unless you can streak away on your sorc, or go invis on your nightblade, (this leaves alot of classes) Youre just boned when ccs are spammed at you. and yes there are soft cc immunities. but these also deplete resources which fortifies the premise of spamming the soft cc. Soft ccs are more useful in this case, since they can be re-applied rapidly compared to a hard CC (stun and knockback) Whereas after a break free there is a longer duration before you can be hard CC's again. In a magicka build you simply cannot sustain a viable defense without the mistform. But this requires vampirism, which is great on some builds, but you should not be required to be a vampire to have a stun/cc immunity when stamina based build have a plethora of viable counters to this tactic, hence taking you 2 minutes of spamming ice reach on the immortal DK.
Simply put there needs to be another option. or the stam hard cc immunity needs to be penalized to bring them back down to NOT immortal. If you wish to argue this point you just go kill the Jarls and EGO in Kraal when they decide to go be immortal.
It take 30 guys... THIRTY GUYS! so yea you cant just say "oh because youre bad" It takes 30 guys to kill this trio, unless they make a woopsy. And EGO uses mistform, the other two have stam for days and im guessing using HA ult.
So unless you wear HA or have 3k stam regen, or a vampire. youre boned.
I understand that there should be some advantages and disadvantages per build type, but to deny a squishy mage that cant run 30 meters without running out of go go juice in the first place, some way to counter this. Its not cool. The squishy mage already has to deal with low HP and low STAM. subject to one shots and can only run around the tree like 3 times to LOS vs the stam build running around the tree FOREVER times.
It is highly one sides, any arguments against this or feeble attempt to claim im a bad pvper are not well thought. Clearly im running the squishy mage in cyro in the first place means i have to be pretty good to do ANYTHING in there with a build like that, and the fact that i am obviously pretty well thought on the subject and have provided irrefutable empirical points on the matter, states that this is clearly an issue that needs to be addressed.
Whether it be a nerf of the stam class usefulness or an skill to counter this. Or whatever solution i really do not care, but there needs to be a magicka solution that does not require me and my skinny squishy mage ass to take 20% more damage from the over-used dawnbreaker, that i can barely take one of in the first place.
There is nothing you can say that could possibly make it fair that The Jarl guys can run around inside a zerg of 30 dudes and kill all of them because they cannot be stunned, and some skinny squishy mage cant even take one cc without it being a death sentence. Its simply not a fair dynamic and it needs to be addressed in some fashion.0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
...while on the other hand, magica builds -never- find themselves out of the resource they need to fight because they had been sprinting and dodging to get out of the red, or breaking that CC...As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen...
All in all, I always thought it balances, and just makes the two types play a bit -differently-
(I would not mind seeing CCs divided into "physical" and "magical" effects, and require stamina for breaking the former and magica for the latter. Just sayin.)
this is how it should be.3 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is break free exclusive to stamina? .
You really need to read your title again. Then edit it.
The current design has worked well for a great many players at all levels in both PvE and PvP.
What is great that a magicka player uses stamina to break free is it does not cost them the resource that is needed for both doing damage, healing and other means for survival. Of course some players to not build well for PvP which includes having a little more stamina. It has been common to use tri stat food for ages when entering PvP.
You mean the guys that can stack stam regen, run twice as fast, and run around rocks spamming break free and immovable and healing at will and do NOT have to use their magicka for these things, savine it for burst heals or whatever.
There no sound argument that states that magicka is not handicapped by break free.
Theres almost no way to kill some of these stamina builds. and we all know it takes 12 guys to kill them. Theres not many magicka builds that can hold 12 guys for more than 8 seconds, as that second stun comes in, and youre done..
But stamina guy can tank it up all the way and spam break free like is going out of style, and the hit you with a 14k dragon leap on a 12k dps build.
This is not balance, (granted this is the least balanced game in history)
You think ESO is the least balance game in history. BDO says otherwise!0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭CC spam is horrible. tbh the way i deal with bash necros and stam dk immortals is spam soft ccs till they run out of stamina so they can finally be killed, which in itself requires huge amount of sustain whether spamming bombard with a bow, or ice reach with a staff. OVER and OVER and OVER.
It takes a team of 3 guys 2 dpsing and one spamming immobilize still with this method up to 1-2 minutes to kill one of these stam sustain defensive builds..
If this method is used on ANY magicka based toon that does not have mistform (which makes you go splat to dawnbreakers) About 12 seconds tops for the most versatile of magicka builds. Unless you can streak away on your sorc, or go invis on your nightblade, (this leaves alot of classes) Youre just boned when ccs are spammed at you. and yes there are soft cc immunities. but these also deplete resources which fortifies the premise of spamming the soft cc. Soft ccs are more useful in this case, since they can be re-applied rapidly compared to a hard CC (stun and knockback) Whereas after a break free there is a longer duration before you can be hard CC's again. In a magicka build you simply cannot sustain a viable defense without the mistform. But this requires vampirism, which is great on some builds, but you should not be required to be a vampire to have a stun/cc immunity when stamina based build have a plethora of viable counters to this tactic, hence taking you 2 minutes of spamming ice reach on the immortal DK.
Simply put there needs to be another option. or the stam hard cc immunity needs to be penalized to bring them back down to NOT immortal. If you wish to argue this point you just go kill the Jarls and EGO in Kraal when they decide to go be immortal.
It take 30 guys... THIRTY GUYS! so yea you cant just say "oh because youre bad" It takes 30 guys to kill this trio, unless they make a woopsy. And EGO uses mistform, the other two have stam for days and im guessing using HA ult.
So unless you wear HA or have 3k stam regen, or a vampire. youre boned.
I understand that there should be some advantages and disadvantages per build type, but to deny a squishy mage that cant run 30 meters without running out of go go juice in the first place, some way to counter this. Its not cool. The squishy mage already has to deal with low HP and low STAM. subject to one shots and can only run around the tree like 3 times to LOS vs the stam build running around the tree FOREVER times.
It is highly one sides, any arguments against this or feeble attempt to claim im a bad pvper are not well thought. Clearly im running the squishy mage in cyro in the first place means i have to be pretty good to do ANYTHING in there with a build like that, and the fact that i am obviously pretty well thought on the subject and have provided irrefutable empirical points on the matter, states that this is clearly an issue that needs to be addressed.
Whether it be a nerf of the stam class usefulness or an skill to counter this. Or whatever solution i really do not care, but there needs to be a magicka solution that does not require me and my skinny squishy mage ass to take 20% more damage from the over-used dawnbreaker, that i can barely take one of in the first place.
There is nothing you can say that could possibly make it fair that The Jarl guys can run around inside a zerg of 30 dudes and kill all of them because they cannot be stunned, and some skinny squishy mage cant even take one cc without it being a death sentence. Its simply not a fair dynamic and it needs to be addressed in some fashion.
After dealing with this imbalance in ESO for nearly 2 years now. I finially decided to uninstall ESO and play BDO and GW2. Much more mage friendly MMOs than the Mage hating MMO that ESO is.
I would love to return to ESO. But that will only happen on the condition ZOS decides to allow magicka based playstyles outside of Sorc and Nightblades to be viable in PvP. Both CP and Non CP PvP.
But I dare not hold my breath on the matter. I now look from the outside in. To see if the day arrives that Magicka is just a strong as stamina builds.0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
...while on the other hand, magica builds -never- find themselves out of the resource they need to fight because they had been sprinting and dodging to get out of the red, or breaking that CC...As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen...
All in all, I always thought it balances, and just makes the two types play a bit -differently-
(I would not mind seeing CCs divided into "physical" and "magical" effects, and require stamina for breaking the former and magica for the latter. Just sayin.)
I like this point. And a magicka based break free would then cost those precious resources.
I also like the splitting the effect idea.
And additionally magicka has to do all those things to evade, and yes it is not on their ammo resource, but you have half the stam to do it, and 1/3 the sustain.
Im really only concerned with the break free however. The other part again are not death sentences. Getting a 3 second stun and not being able to break free IS a death sentence.
While stam-build has to manage their stamina to do damage and all the running and dodging and breaking free. Magicka is required to do all those as well, and with 1/3 the pool and sustain.
So i mean sorcs get to streak, and NBS get to invis, but what does a templar get? Theres no magicka based mobility or evasion there. DKs used to get tohttps://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Bloodthorn's+Touch+Set
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Amber+Plasm+Set
Two great sets for magicka players worried about stamina.
This is helpful, yet do you really want to wear these in pvp? granted amber plasm is great. but 250 stam regen isnt going to save you really. Niether is the equivelent of 300 stam regen coming from bloodthorns.
.
Considering most magicka builds have between 9k and 12k stamina, these sets are more helpful than you think.
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TriangularChicken✭✭✭✭OKAY points taken, howabout increasing the cost of multple break frees.
Whats not fair is immunity to CC versus you got cc'd your dead.
In no CP break free costs around 4900 stamina - sure let's increase it even more, it's way too easy to survive when you have a noob zerg thirsting for the 50 AP they get for killing you. I am pretty sure that increasing the cost of multiple break frees will help with your initial idea of "break free being exclusive to stamina players". /s
I wish some of you people creating these nonsense threads would once in your life try to play solo. You'd learn a few things about this game.1 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭Why is break free exclusive to stamina? This ability should be based on whichever resource pool is higher.
The fact that you cannot use MAGIC To break free is nonsense, I mean its MAGIC, because its MAGICAL you sure surely be able to use it to BREAK FREE of a debilitating effect.
In fact, it make MORE sense that you should be able to MAGIC to do such a thing, and stamina.
As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.
Please fix this.
If your a mag build stamina is an untouched pool might as well use it for breakfree
AND sprint, AND dodge rol AND block. it isnt really unused.
And as Varanis stated above, the original intent for this system was not exactly how it works today.
I think a simple increase of multiple break frees in a time limit would make it fair.
Or a magicka based break free, even if it was a skill line ability added to a new skill line in a new DLC
So you would have to go train the whatever "daedric influence" skill line to get a magick break free that you would have to slot, but this would work. takes up a skill slot, so its a penalty for using it *shrug* fine. but something.
You are aware that stam still have to sprint, block and dodge but using the pool for their damage abilities. It’s a handicap on stam more than mag in my experience.1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TriangularChicken wrote: »OKAY points taken, howabout increasing the cost of multple break frees.
Whats not fair is immunity to CC versus you got cc'd your dead.
In no CP break free costs around 4900 stamina - sure let's increase it even more, it's way too easy to survive when you have a noob zerg thirsting for the 50 AP they get for killing you. I am pretty sure that increasing the cost of multiple break frees will help with your initial idea of "break free being exclusive to stamina players". /s
I wish some of you people creating these nonsense threads would once in your life try to play solo. You'd learn a few things about this game.
cc break costs 5400 by default. a base dodge roll costs 4040.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 1, 2019 9:41AM0 -
Trueblue✭✭yea... mag char use magica for break free, stam use stamina for break free... then change buff and boost stamina play so noone with stamina Build can't use magica buff skill. Give magica skill exclusive for magica build... why magica build need use stamina for some skill line in Assault tree for example when we use magica??
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FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭yea... mag char use magica for break free, stam use stamina for break free... then change buff and boost stamina play so noone with stamina Build can't use magica buff skill. Give magica skill exclusive for magica build... why magica build need use stamina for some skill line in Assault tree for example when we use magica??
Because ZOS hate players that like to fight with Staves and Magic. Best to just find another MMO. Where the devs. allow players that like playing mages viability. Because outside of Pet Sorc you will not find such treatment here in ESO.0 -
Neloth290✭✭✭If I was forced to use mag to break free on my mag chars I would stop playing them tbh.Ps4 Eu Wood Elf Stamplar AR 41
Breton Magblade AR 27
High Elf Mag Sorc AR 25
Redguard Stam Dk AR 22
Breton Magden AR 23
1100cp
Pc Eu
Argonian Magblade AR 14
325cp
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOXNPN0EreUScYN6QfmHcow4 -
logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭As I said several times before, Stamina should become something else. Lets call it Concentration, for example. The point is, that running, jumping (sic!) and rolling should be tied to "real" Stamina, and all current Stamina abilities to Concetration. Regarding breaking free ability, it also could be tied to "real" Stamina or, as OP said, to the highest resource pool. For the second option it even could be done with different fancy animations and effects, eh? Nevermind, most likely we'll never see any changes here, considering how ZOS communicate with players.EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tbh, every magicka build that doesnt have at least 13k stamina shouldnt get used in PvP.
Tri stat buff food is your friend.1 -
cHIIMEERa✭✭✭What about rolling, sprinting, sneak, blocking and bashing? I think it would be very discriminating for those moves to be left out. In fact, lets remove stamina and magicka alltogether and replace with something new. Yeah, lets call the new statpool bazooka and have everything in the game scale of max bazooka instead.
Haha
Edited by cHIIMEERa on July 1, 2019 12:37PM“Good judgement is the result of experience and experience the result of bad judgement.” ― Mark Twain2 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭I like the break free with stam as magica users. That way it is played differently and I like that. In CP I love the fact it is split. In no-CP as mag user what gets me killed 70% of the time is that I ran out of Stamina. That just doesn't not feel right.
What would be great if they indeed change it to higher resource and possible also change the animation if you break free with stam or mag. Or if they rework CP the break free costs will be integrated in passive more that in CP. That way in no-CP magica has access to more reduce costs for breakfree and roll dodge.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s not really break free that’s “exclusive” it’s the mass ability to dodge roll. If you don’t dodge roll on your mag toon- you’ll have plenty of recourses to break free when needed. If you DO dodge roll- then you need to build for that playstyle a bit.1 -
jdamuso✭✭✭What about rolling, sprinting, sneak, blocking and bashing? I think it would be very discriminating for those moves to be left out. In fact, lets remove stamina and magicka alltogether and replace with something new. Yeah, lets call the new statpool bazooka and have everything in the game scale of max bazooka instead.
Haha
none of these youve described are needed to break a hard cc... Again since im guessing you didnt read much of the thread.
The issue here is that NOT breaking out of a hard CC is a death sentence.
While stam builds have a plethora of ways to counter hard CCs. Magick has very very few, and the little to no stamina and stam regen make it almost impossible to break out of more than one hard CC.
Are you saying then.. if you were a magical being, that can shoot fireballs and teleport through spacetime, cast force fields and such.. that you couldnt use MAGIC to break free from a control effect?
And yet, if you were a big musclebound moron that can lift 500 pounds with one hand and run 3 marathons in a row, for some reason you should be able to release yourself from MAGICAL bindings quite easily.
Im sorry there just is no validation for this ^0 -
jdamuso✭✭✭highkingnm wrote: »Why is break free exclusive to stamina? This ability should be based on whichever resource pool is higher.
The fact that you cannot use MAGIC To break free is nonsense, I mean its MAGIC, because its MAGICAL you sure surely be able to use it to BREAK FREE of a debilitating effect.
In fact, it make MORE sense that you should be able to MAGIC to do such a thing, and stamina.
As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.
Please fix this.
If your a mag build stamina is an untouched pool might as well use it for breakfree
AND sprint, AND dodge rol AND block. it isnt really unused.
And as Varanis stated above, the original intent for this system was not exactly how it works today.
I think a simple increase of multiple break frees in a time limit would make it fair.
Or a magicka based break free, even if it was a skill line ability added to a new skill line in a new DLC
So you would have to go train the whatever "daedric influence" skill line to get a magick break free that you would have to slot, but this would work. takes up a skill slot, so its a penalty for using it *shrug* fine. but something.
You are aware that stam still have to sprint, block and dodge but using the pool for their damage abilities. It’s a handicap on stam more than mag in my experience.
So do mag with 1/3 the stam pool and 1/5th the regen. whats your point? If break free cost magicka then it would be more fair by what youve stated.
Edited by jdamuso on July 4, 2019 12:03AM1 -
jdamuso✭✭✭It’s not really break free that’s “exclusive” it’s the mass ability to dodge roll. If you don’t dodge roll on your mag toon- you’ll have plenty of recourses to break free when needed. If you DO dodge roll- then you need to build for that playstyle a bit.
dont dodge.. hmmmm sounds like a great idea
dont block... hmmm sounds like a great idea
dont sprint... hmmm sounds like a great idea
welp i didnt make it to tthe hard CC cuz im already dead, because i didnt defend myself
sounds like a great idea0 -
jdamuso✭✭✭Tbh, every magicka build that doesnt have at least 13k stamina shouldnt get used in PvP.
Tri stat buff food is your friend.
Do you use tri stat on your stam toon?
Nope you use dubious or better.
No one uses tri food in pvp. unless thier running sustain sets which provide little to no damage.
Ill use my willow and seducers to go tickle you to death while i have 13k stamina with my tri food ! woohooo
give me a break0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Something tells me that even if they did change break free to magicka, then the same few people would make threads about how they have no magicka left to heal, shield, or do damage. Some people think a nerf or changing game mechanics is going to somehow make them better.
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