Why is break free not exclusive to stamina?

jdamuso

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? This ability should be based on whichever resource pool is higher.

The fact that you cannot use MAGIC To break free is nonsense, I mean its MAGIC, because its MAGICAL you sure surely be able to use it to BREAK FREE of a debilitating effect.

In fact, it make MORE sense that you should be able to MAGIC to do such a thing, and stamina.

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.


Please fix this.

red_emu

Incoming stam players:

"But most abilities in game are Magica. we only have 4 weapon skill lines with 20 stam abilities. Give us stam frags and stam curse and stam streak and make roll dodge and block free...then you can have Magica break free"

*Grabs popcorn*

jdamuso

red_emu wrote: »

Incoming stam players:

"But most abilities in game are Magica. we only have 4 weapon skill lines with 20 stam abilities. Give us stam frags and stam curse and stam streak and make roll dodge and block free...then you can have Magica break free"

*Grabs popcorn*

Only 4 weapon skill lines? Magicka has only one weapon skill line. whats your point?

SidraWillowsky

red_emu wrote: »

Incoming stam players:

"But most abilities in game are Magica. we only have 4 weapon skill lines with 20 stam abilities. Give us stam frags and stam curse and stam streak and make roll dodge and block free...then you can have Magica break free"

*Grabs popcorn*

...no.

idk

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? .

You really need to read your title again. Then edit it.

The current design has worked well for a great many players at all levels in both PvE and PvP.

What is great that a magicka player uses stamina to break free is it does not cost them the resource that is needed for both doing damage, healing and other means for survival. Of course some players to not build well for PvP which includes having a little more stamina. It has been common to use tri stat food for ages when entering PvP.

susmitds

jdamuso wrote: »

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.

And which stamina class does not use Magicka abilities? On my stamina nightblade, being out Magicka is easy more risky than being out of stamina.

SidraWillowsky

jdamuso wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

*snip silly post*

Only 4 weapon skill lines? Magicka has only one weapon skill line. whats your point?

Sounds like this dude is a weird... attribute loyalist?

Vapirko

susmitds wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.

And which stamina class does not use Magicka abilities? On my stamina nightblade, being out Magicka is easy more risky than being out of stamina.

Yeah, all stamina classes have to use multiple costly magicka abilities. It’s pretty even.

jdamuso

idk wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? .

You really need to read your title again. Then edit it.

The current design has worked well for a great many players at all levels in both PvE and PvP.

What is great that a magicka player uses stamina to break free is it does not cost them the resource that is needed for both doing damage, healing and other means for survival. Of course some players to not build well for PvP which includes having a little more stamina. It has been common to use tri stat food for ages when entering PvP.

You mean the guys that can stack stam regen, run twice as fast, and run around rocks spamming break free and immovable and healing at will and do NOT have to use their magicka for these things, savine it for burst heals or whatever.



There no sound argument that states that magicka is not handicapped by break free.

Theres almost no way to kill some of these stamina builds. and we all know it takes 12 guys to kill them. Theres not many magicka builds that can hold 12 guys for more than 8 seconds, as that second stun comes in, and youre done..

But stamina guy can tank it up all the way and spam break free like is going out of style, and the hit you with a 14k dragon leap on a 12k dps build.

This is not balance, (granted this is the least balanced game in history)

jdamuso

Vapirko wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.

And which stamina class does not use Magicka abilities? On my stamina nightblade, being out Magicka is easy more risky than being out of stamina.

Yeah, all stamina classes have to use multiple costly magicka abilities. It’s pretty even.

How is breaking out of cc's at will even with having to use a magicka heal or armor buff?

susmitds

jdamuso wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? .

You really need to read your title again. Then edit it.

The current design has worked well for a great many players at all levels in both PvE and PvP.

What is great that a magicka player uses stamina to break free is it does not cost them the resource that is needed for both doing damage, healing and other means for survival. Of course some players to not build well for PvP which includes having a little more stamina. It has been common to use tri stat food for ages when entering PvP.

You mean the guys that can stack stam regen, run twice as fast, and run around rocks spamming break free and immovable and healing at will and do NOT have to use their magicka for these things, savine it for burst heals or whatever.



There no sound argument that states that magicka is not handicapped by break free.

Theres almost no way to kill some of these stamina builds. and we all know it takes 12 guys to kill them. Theres not many magicka builds that can hold 12 guys for more than 8 seconds, as that second stun comes in, and youre done..

But stamina guy can tank it up all the way and spam break free like is going out of style, and the hit you with a 14k dragon leap on a 12k dps build.

This is not balance, (granted this is the least balanced game in history)

Stamina characters running twice as fast as mag?

Stamina characters burst healing with Magicka?

Nah mate, you guaranteed my suspicion that you never played Stamina.

If you are getting hit with 14k leaps, then I don't think you even have a proper build.

jdamuso

OKAY points taken, howabout increasing the cost of multple break frees.


Whats not fair is immunity to CC versus you got cc'd your dead.

jdamuso

susmitds wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? .

You really need to read your title again. Then edit it.

The current design has worked well for a great many players at all levels in both PvE and PvP.

What is great that a magicka player uses stamina to break free is it does not cost them the resource that is needed for both doing damage, healing and other means for survival. Of course some players to not build well for PvP which includes having a little more stamina. It has been common to use tri stat food for ages when entering PvP.

You mean the guys that can stack stam regen, run twice as fast, and run around rocks spamming break free and immovable and healing at will and do NOT have to use their magicka for these things, savine it for burst heals or whatever.



There no sound argument that states that magicka is not handicapped by break free.

Theres almost no way to kill some of these stamina builds. and we all know it takes 12 guys to kill them. Theres not many magicka builds that can hold 12 guys for more than 8 seconds, as that second stun comes in, and youre done..

But stamina guy can tank it up all the way and spam break free like is going out of style, and the hit you with a 14k dragon leap on a 12k dps build.

This is not balance, (granted this is the least balanced game in history)

Stamina characters running twice as fast as mag?

Stamina characters burst healing with Magicka?

Nah mate, you guaranteed my suspicion that you never played Stamina.

If you are getting hit with 14k leaps, then I don't think you even have a proper build.

Do you even pvp? If you actually run a glass cannon you get stomped. i have every type of build including ones that run around rocks and reduce 14k dragon leaps to 2k damage.

Theres no magick toon that can out run a stamina toon. Aside some streak sorcs, and that has increased cost for multiple uses.

AND IF MAGICKA IS BALANCED


Why is cyro85% stam.

because break free.

idk

jdamuso wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? .

You really need to read your title again. Then edit it.

The current design has worked well for a great many players at all levels in both PvE and PvP.

What is great that a magicka player uses stamina to break free is it does not cost them the resource that is needed for both doing damage, healing and other means for survival. Of course some players to not build well for PvP which includes having a little more stamina. It has been common to use tri stat food for ages when entering PvP.

You mean the guys that can stack stam regen, run twice as fast, and run around rocks spamming break free and immovable and healing at will and do NOT have to use their magicka for these things, savine it for burst heals or whatever.

No. I do not stack stam regen and certainly do not run twice as fast. I do use tri stat food and have some CP points to reduce the cost of break free but that is just a good part of a PvP build.

Again, it has worked fine for a great many people at all levels of game play. I have not seen your game play or build so cannot offer suggestions to help.

jdamuso

Vapirko wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.

And which stamina class does not use Magicka abilities? On my stamina nightblade, being out Magicka is easy more risky than being out of stamina.

Yeah, all stamina classes have to use multiple costly magicka abilities. It’s pretty even.

Lack of casting said ability is not usually a death sentence, no break free however is indeed a death sentence.

VaranisArano

Break free, dodge roll, and sprint are exclusive to stamina because ZOS originally designed ESO for every player to use magicka to cast their skills, with stamina being for utility mechanics like block, bash, break free, dodge and sprint. Even the weapon lines were supposed to be for flavor.

Ice staff tanking and the ability to use magicka to block with an ice staff was added later. The change to a Stamina vs Magicka meta didn't happen until the removal of the caps which made it possible to benefit from stacking one resource.

So because stamina is used for utility as well as abilities, most stamina abilities cost less than magicka abilities. Reworking the way break free, dodge roll, sprint, bash, etc. work would require rebalancing stamina and magicka to account for that change. ZOS isn't likely to do that.

So in the meantime, eat some purple tri-food when you PVP on a magicka character.

jircris11

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? This ability should be based on whichever resource pool is higher.

The fact that you cannot use MAGIC To break free is nonsense, I mean its MAGIC, because its MAGICAL you sure surely be able to use it to BREAK FREE of a debilitating effect.

In fact, it make MORE sense that you should be able to MAGIC to do such a thing, and stamina.

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.


Please fix this.

If your a mag build stamina is an untouched pool might as well use it for breakfree

jdamuso

jircris11 wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? This ability should be based on whichever resource pool is higher.

The fact that you cannot use MAGIC To break free is nonsense, I mean its MAGIC, because its MAGICAL you sure surely be able to use it to BREAK FREE of a debilitating effect.

In fact, it make MORE sense that you should be able to MAGIC to do such a thing, and stamina.

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.


Please fix this.

If your a mag build stamina is an untouched pool might as well use it for breakfree

AND sprint, AND dodge rol AND block. it isnt really unused.

And as Varanis stated above, the original intent for this system was not exactly how it works today.

I think a simple increase of multiple break frees in a time limit would make it fair.

Or a magicka based break free, even if it was a skill line ability added to a new skill line in a new DLC
So you would have to go train the whatever "daedric influence" skill line to get a magick break free that you would have to slot, but this would work. takes up a skill slot, so its a penalty for using it *shrug* fine. but something.

TheShadowScout

jdamuso wrote: »

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen...

...while on the other hand, magica builds -never- find themselves out of the resource they need to fight because they had been sprinting and dodging to get out of the red, or breaking that CC...
All in all, I always thought it balances, and just makes the two types play a bit -differently-

(I would not mind seeing CCs divided into "physical" and "magical" effects, and require stamina for breaking the former and magica for the latter. Just sayin.)

Kel

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Bloodthorn's+Touch+Set


https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Amber+Plasm+Set

Two great sets for magicka players worried about stamina.

Gilvoth

the stupid break free and the unwanted CC's should be removed from the game completely.
i hate the both of them.

VaranisArano

jdamuso wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? This ability should be based on whichever resource pool is higher.

The fact that you cannot use MAGIC To break free is nonsense, I mean its MAGIC, because its MAGICAL you sure surely be able to use it to BREAK FREE of a debilitating effect.

In fact, it make MORE sense that you should be able to MAGIC to do such a thing, and stamina.

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.


Please fix this.

If your a mag build stamina is an untouched pool might as well use it for breakfree

AND sprint, AND dodge rol AND block. it isnt really unused.

And as Varanis stated above, the original intent for this system was not exactly how it works today.

I think a simple increase of multiple break frees in a time limit would make it fair.

Or a magicka based break free, even if it was a skill line ability added to a new skill line in a new DLC
So you would have to go train the whatever "daedric influence" skill line to get a magick break free that you would have to slot, but this would work. takes up a skill slot, so its a penalty for using it *shrug* fine. but something.

I'll correct you on one point.

For Magicka builds, you use magicka for skills and stamina for utility, exactly how the system was originally designed. The only exception is that now you gain more benefit from min-maxing your magicka vs stamina...in PVE. That's not true in PVP, where your stamina pool functions exactly as intended: as your necessary utility pool and you'd better have enough stamina for the running, dodging, and breaking free that you need.

So again, use purple tri-foods on your magicka build.

Sanctum74

Gilvoth wrote: »

the stupid break free and the unwanted CC's should be removed from the game completely.
i hate the both of them.

Then nobody would die except inexperienced players.

MakeMeUhSamich

Use Race Against Time?

jdamuso

TheShadowScout wrote: »

jdamuso wrote: »

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen...

...while on the other hand, magica builds -never- find themselves out of the resource they need to fight because they had been sprinting and dodging to get out of the red, or breaking that CC...
All in all, I always thought it balances, and just makes the two types play a bit -differently-

(I would not mind seeing CCs divided into "physical" and "magical" effects, and require stamina for breaking the former and magica for the latter. Just sayin.)

I like this point. And a magicka based break free would then cost those precious resources.

I also like the splitting the effect idea.

And additionally magicka has to do all those things to evade, and yes it is not on their ammo resource, but you have half the stam to do it, and 1/3 the sustain.

Im really only concerned with the break free however. The other part again are not death sentences. Getting a 3 second stun and not being able to break free IS a death sentence.

While stam-build has to manage their stamina to do damage and all the running and dodging and breaking free. Magicka is required to do all those as well, and with 1/3 the pool and sustain.

So i mean sorcs get to streak, and NBS get to invis, but what does a templar get? Theres no magicka based mobility or evasion there. DKs used to get to

Kel wrote: »

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Bloodthorn's+Touch+Set


https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Amber+Plasm+Set

Two great sets for magicka players worried about stamina.

This is helpful, yet do you really want to wear these in pvp? granted amber plasm is great. but 250 stam regen isnt going to save you really. Niether is the equivelent of 300 stam regen coming from bloodthorns.

Im run

MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »

Use Race Against Time?

This is not bad, but i dont think it will break you free. its a good soft cc break though. If it does break you from hard cc's that would be exactly what id suggested earlier'

Perhaps adding a hard cc break to this would be fair enough. but i think stam break free costs much more, thus would unbalance and make this topic sway the opposite direction.

How much is a stam break free costing right now? that would be the cost needed to be balanced for mag.

i think it was increased recently was it not? to slow stam builds down, but that just cripples mag builds. idk if it was increased, i thought i heard that.

Jeremy

jdamuso wrote: »

Why is break free exclusive to stamina? This ability should be based on whichever resource pool is higher.

The fact that you cannot use MAGIC To break free is nonsense, I mean its MAGIC, because its MAGICAL you sure surely be able to use it to BREAK FREE of a debilitating effect.

In fact, it make MORE sense that you should be able to MAGIC to do such a thing, and stamina.

As well as unbalancing PVP by a huge ammount, by forcing magicka builds to put points into stamina and stamina regen. STAMINA build do not need to put MAGICKA in their build unless they wish to utilize MAGICKA abilities. Yet if you dont stam your magicka pvp. You die. over and over by the CC intensive pvp combat system.


Please fix this.

I've asked for this in the past because there does need to be more magical ways to escape snares and stuns. Early in this game's design it wasn't a problem because Magicka Classes had the option to preempt these effects with unstoppable. But after they nerfed that it made CC too effective against magicka-based classes.

It was never realistic to expect magicka classes to build enough stamina to break free of a stun and then roll out of a snare anyway. And unless you were a vampire with mist form good luck moving on this game's PvP. And as you say - a person who can't move is a dead person.

I think the developers realize this finally as well. Which is why you see them giving magical options to escape CC effects in the Psijic Skill line. I'm not sure if those are an adequate replacement for Mist Form yet or not. I know the ultimate certainly wasn't. But I haven't really tested that other ability sufficiently to say. So you may want to try that one out and see if it helps.

LukosCreyden

The way I've always seen it is;

Stamina - sprint, dodge, block, break free all easy to cast, but use main resource pool. Limited access to magicka utility.

Magicka- sprint, dodge, block, break free all costly, but usable. Extensive access to magicka utility and shields, but uses main resource pool.

Written like this, it does make sense. However, some tweaks to numbers could be welcome, if done with care.

jdamuso

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The way I've always seen it is;

Stamina - sprint, dodge, block, break free all easy to cast, but use main resource pool. Limited access to magicka utility.

Magicka- sprint, dodge, block, break free all costly, but usable. Extensive access to magicka utility and shields, but uses main resource pool.

Written like this, it does make sense. However, some tweaks to numbers could be welcome, if done with care.

Agreed. Again the only part im really concerned with is the unlimited break free vs one - two if youre lucky.

Gilvoth

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the stupid break free and the unwanted CC's should be removed from the game completely.
i hate the both of them.

Then nobody would die except inexperienced players.

no it wouldn't.
eso did not launch with Break free.
we would go into an exhausted type of animation.
the CC and break free both need to be removed from pvp, it will help the fighting.

Jeremy

Gilvoth wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the stupid break free and the unwanted CC's should be removed from the game completely.
i hate the both of them.

Then nobody would die except inexperienced players.

eso did not launch with Break free.
we would go into a exhausted type of animation.

Players could also build for CC immunity, which was nice - and should have never been taken away as an option.

Gilvoth

Jeremy wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the stupid break free and the unwanted CC's should be removed from the game completely.
i hate the both of them.

Then nobody would die except inexperienced players.

eso did not launch with Break free.
we would go into a exhausted type of animation.

Players could also build for CC immunity, which was nice - and should have never been taken away as an option.

exactly.