That's Twice S&B Has Gotten Indirectly Nerfed

frostz417 · July 2019

I find it funny when “tanks” complain about bash nerf. Like literally you’re a tank not a dps. What the hell was so beneficial about having extra bash damage when tanking a boss?

NordSwordnBoard · July 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

I find it funny when “tanks” complain about bash nerf. Like literally you’re a tank not a dps. What the hell was so beneficial about having extra bash damage when tanking a boss?

That's why I thought they would just nerf the ult, making it single target instead of aoe or something. Ravenous ult being aoe, the other fitting into PvE better if you want to bash a boss to death with temporary OP damage. I think the colossus would be more help unless you were last man standing.

Kidgangster101 · July 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

SnB is the backbone of the tank meta and needs more nerfs to be honest. The amount of utility and damage it provides is absurd.
Why slot 2h when I can have a spammable that snares, gives minor maim, and minor heroism, win an on command, buggy, easily animation cancelled stun that also applies major defile, pair that passives that BOOST DAMAGE.
And be tanky as hell while appliying far more pressure then I could ever apply with 2h or dw.
They need to make 1h shield work in conjunction to restoration staff.
Restoration staff is only useful for healing
So 1h shield should only be useful for tanking.
It doesn’t need to be able to do the stupid amount of damage it does. Makes no sense at all, 90% of the cyrodiil population uses 1h shield... there’s clearly an issue there.

You can say shield and sword is the problem all you want, the problem is heavy armor sets like ravenger, fury, 7th legion, ECT. That is the common thing with shield and sword. I have yet to see a medium armor user using shield and sword for damage.......... Fury offers what almost 1000ish attack? Lol why can people in heavy armor get maxed resistances, I've seen builds that get 8000ish weapon damage......... But yep that is shield and swords fault lol.

If you nerf shield and sword rather than these sets then you will just see heavy armor users go to dw/2h and do almost identical things but be more offensive than defensive using shield and sword..........

Medium armor users use dw/bow, 2h/bow, dw/2h, bow/bow......... but yep it is shield and sword that is op nice logic 😉

frostz417 · July 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

SnB is the backbone of the tank meta and needs more nerfs to be honest. The amount of utility and damage it provides is absurd.
Why slot 2h when I can have a spammable that snares, gives minor maim, and minor heroism, win an on command, buggy, easily animation cancelled stun that also applies major defile, pair that passives that BOOST DAMAGE.
And be tanky as hell while appliying far more pressure then I could ever apply with 2h or dw.
They need to make 1h shield work in conjunction to restoration staff.
Restoration staff is only useful for healing
So 1h shield should only be useful for tanking.
It doesn’t need to be able to do the stupid amount of damage it does. Makes no sense at all, 90% of the cyrodiil population uses 1h shield... there’s clearly an issue there.

You can say shield and sword is the problem all you want, the problem is heavy armor sets like ravenger, fury, 7th legion, ECT. That is the common thing with shield and sword. I have yet to see a medium armor user using shield and sword for damage.......... Fury offers what almost 1000ish attack? Lol why can people in heavy armor get maxed resistances, I've seen builds that get 8000ish weapon damage......... But yep that is shield and swords fault lol.

If you nerf shield and sword rather than these sets then you will just see heavy armor users go to dw/2h and do almost identical things but be more offensive than defensive using shield and sword..........

Medium armor users use dw/bow, 2h/bow, dw/2h, bow/bow......... but yep it is shield and sword that is op nice logic 😉

7th, fury and ravenger are also an issue. But SnB is no different. It’s also a major issue.
I’d fight a 7th and fury user with dw 2h over a SnB reverb and heroic spamming pug any day.
SnB does not need any offensive capabilities. It needs to work in conjunction with restoration staff.
Debuffing, taunting, and tanking.

Toc de Malsvi · July 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

SnB is the backbone of the tank meta and needs more nerfs to be honest. The amount of utility and damage it provides is absurd.
Why slot 2h when I can have a spammable that snares, gives minor maim, and minor heroism, win an on command, buggy, easily animation cancelled stun that also applies major defile, pair that passives that BOOST DAMAGE.
And be tanky as hell while appliying far more pressure then I could ever apply with 2h or dw.
They need to make 1h shield work in conjunction to restoration staff.
Restoration staff is only useful for healing
So 1h shield should only be useful for tanking.
It doesn’t need to be able to do the stupid amount of damage it does. Makes no sense at all, 90% of the cyrodiil population uses 1h shield... there’s clearly an issue there.

You can say shield and sword is the problem all you want, the problem is heavy armor sets like ravenger, fury, 7th legion, ECT. That is the common thing with shield and sword. I have yet to see a medium armor user using shield and sword for damage.......... Fury offers what almost 1000ish attack? Lol why can people in heavy armor get maxed resistances, I've seen builds that get 8000ish weapon damage......... But yep that is shield and swords fault lol.

If you nerf shield and sword rather than these sets then you will just see heavy armor users go to dw/2h and do almost identical things but be more offensive than defensive using shield and sword..........

Medium armor users use dw/bow, 2h/bow, dw/2h, bow/bow......... but yep it is shield and sword that is op nice logic 😉

7th, fury and ravenger are also an issue. But SnB is no different. It’s also a major issue.
I’d fight a 7th and fury user with dw 2h over a SnB reverb and heroic spamming pug any day.
SnB does not need any offensive capabilities. It needs to work in conjunction with restoration staff.
Debuffing, taunting, and tanking.

I concur. S&B is far to valuable for defense and utility with very little punishment to maximum offense. Nerfs to Major Defile elsewhere made it even more valuable despite enchant losses to S&B.

Firstmep · July 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

SnB is the backbone of the tank meta and needs more nerfs to be honest. The amount of utility and damage it provides is absurd.
Why slot 2h when I can have a spammable that snares, gives minor maim, and minor heroism, win an on command, buggy, easily animation cancelled stun that also applies major defile, pair that passives that BOOST DAMAGE.
And be tanky as hell while appliying far more pressure then I could ever apply with 2h or dw.
They need to make 1h shield work in conjunction to restoration staff.
Restoration staff is only useful for healing
So 1h shield should only be useful for tanking.
It doesn’t need to be able to do the stupid amount of damage it does. Makes no sense at all, 90% of the cyrodiil population uses 1h shield... there’s clearly an issue there.

You can say shield and sword is the problem all you want, the problem is heavy armor sets like ravenger, fury, 7th legion, ECT. That is the common thing with shield and sword. I have yet to see a medium armor user using shield and sword for damage.......... Fury offers what almost 1000ish attack? Lol why can people in heavy armor get maxed resistances, I've seen builds that get 8000ish weapon damage......... But yep that is shield and swords fault lol.

If you nerf shield and sword rather than these sets then you will just see heavy armor users go to dw/2h and do almost identical things but be more offensive than defensive using shield and sword..........

Medium armor users use dw/bow, 2h/bow, dw/2h, bow/bow......... but yep it is shield and sword that is op nice logic 😉

The thing is, sword and board provides far more defense and utility than 2h or dw, those skill lines are mostly centered around damage.
Take heroic slash and tell me its not an overloaded skill.
Also s/b users can still use 2h or dw for things like AOE or execute.
I wouldnt worry too much, s/b will most likely see some heavy handed nerfs when they balance weapon skill lines.
Nerfing bash dmg btw is a good example of nerfing something for pvp only.
Adjusting heroic and reverb would be where id look at mostly, ransack is fine since it has low dmg, i think the ult would be fine too if the aformentioned skills werent overperforming.

Vlad9425 · July 2019

Oh stop crying, sword and board doesn't feel nerfed at all.

Insco851 · July 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

SnB is the backbone of the tank meta and needs more nerfs to be honest. The amount of utility and damage it provides is absurd.
Why slot 2h when I can have a spammable that snares, gives minor maim, and minor heroism, win an on command, buggy, easily animation cancelled stun that also applies major defile, pair that passives that BOOST DAMAGE.
And be tanky as hell while appliying far more pressure then I could ever apply with 2h or dw.
They need to make 1h shield work in conjunction to restoration staff.
Restoration staff is only useful for healing
So 1h shield should only be useful for tanking.
It doesn’t need to be able to do the stupid amount of damage it does. Makes no sense at all, 90% of the cyrodiil population uses 1h shield... there’s clearly an issue there.

You can say shield and sword is the problem all you want, the problem is heavy armor sets like ravenger, fury, 7th legion, ECT. That is the common thing with shield and sword. I have yet to see a medium armor user using shield and sword for damage.......... Fury offers what almost 1000ish attack? Lol why can people in heavy armor get maxed resistances, I've seen builds that get 8000ish weapon damage......... But yep that is shield and swords fault lol.

If you nerf shield and sword rather than these sets then you will just see heavy armor users go to dw/2h and do almost identical things but be more offensive than defensive using shield and sword..........

Medium armor users use dw/bow, 2h/bow, dw/2h, bow/bow......... but yep it is shield and sword that is op nice logic 😉

7th, fury and ravenger are also an issue. But SnB is no different. It’s also a major issue.
I’d fight a 7th and fury user with dw 2h over a SnB reverb and heroic spamming pug any day.
SnB does not need any offensive capabilities. It needs to work in conjunction with restoration staff.
Debuffing, taunting, and tanking.

Heroic/Reverb are straight carry skills. What other skill line gives you: minor heroism, minor maim, 60%! Snare, major defile and a stun - all with typical spamable dmg- in 2 skills??

(Plus extra resistances+extra bash dmg+reduced block cost ... maaaaan)

What else you need? Any class can basically build around that- even mag toons to a degree. Salt the wound with a dot and double dot poisons (cuz duh) and an execute on the other bar... gg

Waffennacht · July 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

SnB is the backbone of the tank meta and needs more nerfs to be honest. The amount of utility and damage it provides is absurd.
Why slot 2h when I can have a spammable that snares, gives minor maim, and minor heroism, win an on command, buggy, easily animation cancelled stun that also applies major defile, pair that passives that BOOST DAMAGE.
And be tanky as hell while appliying far more pressure then I could ever apply with 2h or dw.
They need to make 1h shield work in conjunction to restoration staff.
Restoration staff is only useful for healing
So 1h shield should only be useful for tanking.
It doesn’t need to be able to do the stupid amount of damage it does. Makes no sense at all, 90% of the cyrodiil population uses 1h shield... there’s clearly an issue there.

You can say shield and sword is the problem all you want, the problem is heavy armor sets like ravenger, fury, 7th legion, ECT. That is the common thing with shield and sword. I have yet to see a medium armor user using shield and sword for damage.......... Fury offers what almost 1000ish attack? Lol why can people in heavy armor get maxed resistances, I've seen builds that get 8000ish weapon damage......... But yep that is shield and swords fault lol.

If you nerf shield and sword rather than these sets then you will just see heavy armor users go to dw/2h and do almost identical things but be more offensive than defensive using shield and sword..........

Medium armor users use dw/bow, 2h/bow, dw/2h, bow/bow......... but yep it is shield and sword that is op nice logic 😉

7th, fury and ravenger are also an issue. But SnB is no different. It’s also a major issue.
I’d fight a 7th and fury user with dw 2h over a SnB reverb and heroic spamming pug any day.
SnB does not need any offensive capabilities. It needs to work in conjunction with restoration staff.
Debuffing, taunting, and tanking.

Heroic/Reverb are straight carry skills. What other skill line gives you: minor heroism, minor maim, 60%! Snare, major defile and a stun - all with typical spamable dmg- in 2 skills??

(Plus extra resistances+extra bash dmg+reduced block cost ... maaaaan)

What else you need? Any class can basically build around that- even mag toons to a degree. Salt the wound with a dot and double dot poisons (cuz duh) and an execute on the other bar... gg

I do agree with the sentiment, but surely we gotta be wary of over nerfs

TimeDazzler · July 2019

You cant post anything on the forums nowadays and expect an intelligent response from the community. The hardcore pvp community is right when they say the forums are full of people just wanting their class to be OP even if they have every crutch to them. Or just people who have no idea how to pvp and aren't even deserving of being called a casual. Most of yall would play in a wheelchair if you could screw the crutches.

The point of the thread is to emphasize that ZOS has been making blanket nerfs recently. Not that XYZ on S&B is overperforming. It's all good though when the next blanket nerf comes caused by something entirely else, then maybe you will care. Petsorcs are overperforming? Watch ZOS nerf conjured ward, streak, or darkdeal along with your pets and then the rest of us will comment "good, petsorc was far overperforming" instead of addressing the real issue which was pets and not those other skills.

To further my point, this forum idiot doesn't even know that reverb has had its major defile nerfed from 10s to 4s, yet he's ready to hop on the all aboard nerf S&B train.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I concur. S&B is far too valuable for defense and utility with very little punishment to maximum offense. Nerfs to Major Defile elsewhere made it even more valuable despite enchant losses to S&B.

Nerfs to major defile elsewhere, lmao the main nerf to major defile was reverb being cut more than half which was a huge nerf to S&B offense. "Alright guys, S&B had its major defile cut more than half, enchant cut in half, bash damage nerfed, but it's even more valuable than ever." What a joke.

Demra · July 2019

S&b is not just a tank tool.. some people like the aesthetic of fighting with an axe and shield like a viking. The logic that s&b should be only a defensive tool with no damage is very myopic.

Trancestor · July 2019

I'd agree with nerfing s&b if stamdk and stamsorc and to an extent stamden and stamcro had class spammables (stamden and stamcro do have but not very good ones), but they don't and other than terrible dizzying these classes have no other option than to go s&b for its spammables.
Heroic should still lose one of its buffs/debuffs tho, preferabely the huge snare.

Derra · July 2019

mursie wrote: »

it's a joke. your recaps aren't RENDING SLASH, HEROIC SLASH, BASH added: REVERB, RANSACK. they just aren't. and you're delusional if you think they are.

Maybe i should have made more clear that i´ve talked about the pre nerfed state of bleeds and masterDW not the current versions.

Otherwise i don´t think you have much experience in dueling/1v1 over the years - because in duels on pc-eu they are just that and have been with breaks since stamDK started the madness in late 1.6 (not going into pre cp where every build would have sword and board on every class). Bash would regularly take #1 or #2 dmg done for opponents with offensive sword and board bar.

olsborg · July 2019

Well imo, bashcanceling skills with snb was insanely strong for so long..rip