That's Twice S&B Has Gotten Indirectly Nerfed

TimeDazzler

DW enchants were too strong so they cut them in half by making all 1H weapon enchants cut in half which impacted S&B. Many suggested giving S&B a passive that would increase enchant effectiveness by 100% -> ignored.

Goliath bash too strong so they change S&B passive's 100% additional bash damage to a bonus 500 wep dmg added to your bashes. Another nerf to anyone who weaved bashes on S&B without using goliath.

If you are going to nerf something please make specific changes to just that one thing without affecting other gameplay. Enough with blanket nerfs and more pinpoint nerfs in the future, please!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

relevant username.

TimeDazzler

Cool, now how about you post something relevant? P.S. still better than Lightspeedflashb14_ESO, something a 12 yo would come up with.

WoppaBoem

That user name, that is legendary, well done mate

susmitds

They should nerf S&B more. No reason for the tankiest weapon to have similar damage to DW or 2H.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Cries wrote: »

Cool, now how about you post something relevant? P.S. still better than Lightspeedflashb14_ESO, something a 12 yo would come up with.

Well my username is supposed to be just lightspeedflash. But since I have been here since beta, it has the "b14_ESO" on it.

Still better then Cries.

Iskiab

I’d rather see the ultimate removed entirely but hopefully it’s enough. Still might need a round 3.

DreadDaedroth

I think it's silly they ruined the shield passive only to adjust a class ultimate.

Aedaryl

Don't worry, bash S&Bfury 7th legion bloodspawn like builds are still overperforming.

wheem_ESO

susmitds wrote: »

They should nerf S&B more. No reason for the tankiest weapon to have similar damage to DW or 2H.

Yep. There's also a lot of utility/debuffing available in S&B, and the damage is extremely good. Why should Heroic Slash be hitting me just as hard as any Magicka-based spammable I get hit by (other than the new Whip), while also applying a 60% snare, Minor Maim with a long duration, and providing Minor Heroism? Not to mention the same weapon line providing an on-demand stun + Major Defile, and a not-insignificant amount of extra damage through bash weaving?

I could be on board with 1h/shield getting the same benefit from weapon enchants as every other weapon line, but it needs some nerfs coming alongside that improvement.

frostz417

SnB is the backbone of the tank meta and needs more nerfs to be honest. The amount of utility and damage it provides is absurd.
Why slot 2h when I can have a spammable that snares, gives minor maim, and minor heroism, win an on command, buggy, easily animation cancelled stun that also applies major defile, pair that passives that BOOST DAMAGE.
And be tanky as hell while appliying far more pressure then I could ever apply with 2h or dw.
They need to make 1h shield work in conjunction to restoration staff.
Restoration staff is only useful for healing
So 1h shield should only be useful for tanking.
It doesn’t need to be able to do the stupid amount of damage it does. Makes no sense at all, 90% of the cyrodiil population uses 1h shield... there’s clearly an issue there.

DemonDruaga

On the other side with every nerf to 1h shield you nerf every stam player that hasn't access to a class spamable. Dizzy still sucks bigtime against everything that isn't a turtle, basicly everyone.

Ragnaroek93

Totally justified. I've had combat logs in duels with bash as the #1 dmg source (was around 20%) and no, that wasn't a necro, just a usual stam tank.

iCaliban

S/B damage was over performing even without the incredibly cheesy goliath build. Nuking the ult would have made S/B builds the only viable choice for goliath.

mursie

thank god. can't tell you how many recaps i see with bash, heroic, or ransack in the list.

AMIRITE mag sorcs or what?

what a joke

CritsTheBed

Imo the bash ult was the only thing that needed a nerf. Bash canceling on the other hand takes a bit of skill compared to BASHBASHBASH.

Waffennacht

Bashing is a mechanic and shouldn't have a damage component anyway. It's the equivalent of gaining health because you performed a CC break.

The advantage is in the disruption and cool down forced upon the opponent, you already bypass GCD, there's no reason to stack bash so well when no other mechanic does so.

I think the changes are nice; I just hope it's enough

brandonv516

Sword + board (tanking) should not be offensively viable as Restoration staff (healing) is not.

This is a good change but still needs more nerfs.

SodanTok

Indeed its quite sad we had to have several other overperforming things for SnB getting some nerfs instead of getting nerfs aimed at SnB because it deserves lots of them.

ccmedaddy

Good. Next step: remove the weapon dmg buff passive.

cheemers

brandonv516 wrote: »

Sword + board (tanking) should not be offensively viable as Restoration staff (healing) is not.

This is a good change but still needs more nerfs.

Try running resto staff on magblade with elemental weapon and war maiden, you might be pleasantly surprised. Instant light attacks which cause magic damage, along with magicka restore on block and huge restore on heavy allows for an interesting offensive bar.

brandonv516

cheemers wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Sword + board (tanking) should not be offensively viable as Restoration staff (healing) is not.

This is a good change but still needs more nerfs.

Try running resto staff on magblade with elemental weapon and war maiden, you might be pleasantly surprised. Instant light attacks which cause magic damage, along with magicka restore on block and huge restore on heavy allows for an interesting offensive bar.

I'd actually like to see some competitive footage of that! Very different idea.

wheem_ESO

brandonv516 wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Sword + board (tanking) should not be offensively viable as Restoration staff (healing) is not.

This is a good change but still needs more nerfs.

Try running resto staff on magblade with elemental weapon and war maiden, you might be pleasantly surprised. Instant light attacks which cause magic damage, along with magicka restore on block and huge restore on heavy allows for an interesting offensive bar.

I'd actually like to see some competitive footage of that! Very different idea.

It's still not quite the same thing, even if that works (though I've never actually seen it in game), since Resto Staff still wouldn't have abilities comparable to those of S&B.

Sleep724

Man, I would love to see clips of these overpowered s/b users manhandling you all so bad that you come to the forums asking for nerfs instead of just l2p.

ecru

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Totally justified. I've had combat logs in duels with bash as the #1 dmg source (was around 20%) and no, that wasn't a necro, just a usual stam tank.

Basically this. Bash was overperforming. It's pretty clear from this change that it wasn't ever intended to be a character's main source of damage.

leepalmer95

ecru wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Totally justified. I've had combat logs in duels with bash as the #1 dmg source (was around 20%) and no, that wasn't a necro, just a usual stam tank.

Basically this. Bash was overperforming. It's pretty clear from this change that it wasn't ever intended to be a character's main source of damage.

Yet its been fine in the game for years.

Just zos things, instead of nerfing the over performing new class ult they decide to blanket nerf everything.

Derra

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Totally justified. I've had combat logs in duels with bash as the #1 dmg source (was around 20%) and no, that wasn't a necro, just a usual stam tank.

Basically this. Bash was overperforming. It's pretty clear from this change that it wasn't ever intended to be a character's main source of damage.

Yet its been fine in the game for years.

Just zos things, instead of nerfing the over performing new class ult they decide to blanket nerf everything.

I could not disagree more.
Sword and board has outperformed the other weapon lines on PC (outside of obviously broken stuff like dw masteraxes) since late 2015.

leepalmer95

Derra wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Totally justified. I've had combat logs in duels with bash as the #1 dmg source (was around 20%) and no, that wasn't a necro, just a usual stam tank.

Basically this. Bash was overperforming. It's pretty clear from this change that it wasn't ever intended to be a character's main source of damage.

Yet its been fine in the game for years.

Just zos things, instead of nerfing the over performing new class ult they decide to blanket nerf everything.

I could not disagree more.
Sword and board has outperformed the other weapon lines on PC (outside of obviously broken stuff like dw masteraxes) since late 2015.

Not really, only certain builds bash weave with s&b. Most of the time people used 2h/ dw for main bars.

And previously before they ruined ward people used resto/ bow a lot as well.

Derra

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Totally justified. I've had combat logs in duels with bash as the #1 dmg source (was around 20%) and no, that wasn't a necro, just a usual stam tank.

Basically this. Bash was overperforming. It's pretty clear from this change that it wasn't ever intended to be a character's main source of damage.

Yet its been fine in the game for years.

Just zos things, instead of nerfing the over performing new class ult they decide to blanket nerf everything.

I could not disagree more.
Sword and board has outperformed the other weapon lines on PC (outside of obviously broken stuff like dw masteraxes) since late 2015.

Not really, only certain builds bash weave with s&b. Most of the time people used 2h/ dw for main bars.

And previously before they ruined ward people used resto/ bow a lot as well.

Can only speak about PC-EU - and what you´re describing is not what i´ve experienced when i played the game.

mursie

Derra wrote: »

Sword and board has outperformed the other weapon lines on PC (outside of obviously broken stuff like dw masteraxes) since late 2015.

what are you even talking about? absolutely laughable. There is nothing broken about master axes in no-cp. I never fall over saying "WTF" because someone used rending slash on me. it's freaking comical the stupidity in these threads.

Bash necro? sure. that was broken.

sorc dmg recap? sure. broken AF. joke class

dawn+sub+old steel tornado? - you bet. bonkers

permafrost+sub+steel? - yep, ridic.

but they've nerfed steel. they've adjusted sub. they nerfed bleeds. master dw got further nerfed with latest "dot alignment" as the last tick of rend bleed no longer gets the master dw buff (it only buffs 4 of the 5 ticks now). i mean come the hell on.

it's a joke. your recaps aren't RENDING SLASH, HEROIC SLASH, BASH, RANSACK. they just aren't. and you're delusional if you think they are.


typical recaps: dawnbreaker, crystal frag, curse, endless fury, executioner, Leap. the occasional meteor, soul assault, jesus beam make appearances from time to time.

so to recap: the weapon line with no passive bonuses to damage (other than bash which got nerfed) and requires you to single target your opponent and weave bashes, IN MELEE range, is your eyesore problem. And not the pogo stick frogger clown standing 30 meters away chaining reach, curse, frag, fury all over your face reigning down an ungodly fire storm of scorched earth.... or the AOE 10 meter clown dumping Dawny's in your group's back while spinning like a Cinderella nutjob as an AOE sub rips open your pixelated ***.

let's get some priorties straight here. if only you were so lucky as to have your opponent use snb. what a welcome change that would be.

WuffyCerulei

So when does a tank need bash damage. The 1hander enchant changes were certainly a nerf to tanks, but tanks literally do not need bash damage.