Do you teach or kick in dungeons?

Drdeath20 · July 2019

Kickable offenses.

Tanks that dont taunt or have VERY poor control of add grouping. Im glad the tank is taunting the archers while im scrambling around with a hulking werewolf on me.

Healers that are weak dps and dont run any of ele drain/orbs/shards. I have no use for you.

Dps that are always dead or die to just about every mechanic. Im glad you can test at 40k dps on a dummy but in a dungeon your doing 0k dps when your dead.

Outside of that ill try teaching.

msalvia · July 2019

If it's normal, I teach.

If it's vet, I kick or leave.

Vet is simply not the place to learn basic mechs, especially if the player is not competent in their role.

chaz · July 2019

You know, with everyone saying "this is just a game" , people have the audacity, the gall, the blasphemous ignorance, the nerve being so rude to kick new people or anyone from a dungeon. These fragheads think this is going to be the only 1 time they will be in that dungeon. In all the time that you are going to spend on this game, you really think you're better than everyone else or that you're actually going to go through that dungeon once in your entire life?

These are far beyond the normal reason why ZENIMAX bans the wrong people, banning them for chat bashing noobs like that instead of banning the noobs for kicking or acting like they know it all and over react when someone new comes along for fun wanting to get through the dungeon.

SHAME ON YOU ALL!

MaxJrFTW · July 2019

Aznarb wrote: »

Out of all the most impressive thing is the lack of basic knowledge, can be cp160 or 810+ I've saw lot of them.

Red circle ? Stay in and don't understand why he died.
Interrupt ? Nope
Break-free ? what is that ?
Active synergies ? What ?
Block heavy atk or fast casting aoe ? Nope
Dps who rez the dead ? Nope
Stay togheter ? Nope
Don't pull before Tank ? lel
Healer DPSing instead of heal ? Check
DPS with board and sword ? Check
Run away from healer when low hp ? Check
DPS checking number from addon instead of focus on mech ? Check
Looking at boss pattern ? Nope 99% of the player I've encounter or saw on Youtube don't look at or rely on a mod cuz they're lazy, and when mod fail, they fail..
Pretty funny when a big update come and add-on stop working.

I'm gonna be a bit rude here but : it's the 1st MMORPG where I see a big part of the community with such low skill.
I'm not blaming anyone, just saying.

It is definitely the most casual community i've been a part of as well.

Derra · July 2019

I try to teach except if a dps without a taunt slotted queued as tank - those get kicked without remorse.

templesus · July 2019

Kick

zvavi · July 2019

msalvia wrote: »

If it's normal, I teach.

If it's vet, I kick or leave.

Vet is simply not the place to learn basic mechs, especially if the player is not competent in their role.

I don't want to be rude, but normal have severe lack of mechanics.i did nSS few days ago. The difference is disgusting in my opinion. You can literally learn nothing in normal

Derra wrote: »

I try to teach except if a dps without a taunt slotted queued as tank - those get kicked without remorse.

You friend, are very forgiving, slot taunt yourself, carry it, and kick him before last boss. As a community we should all do that.

mairwen85 · July 2019

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Kickable offenses.

Tanks that dont taunt or have VERY poor control of add grouping. Im glad the tank is taunting the archers while im scrambling around with a hulking werewolf on me.

Healers that are weak dps and dont run any of ele drain/orbs/shards. I have no use for you.

Dps that are always dead or die to just about every mechanic. Im glad you can test at 40k dps on a dummy but in a dungeon your doing 0k dps when your dead.

Outside of that ill try teaching.

I've rarely seen a 40k dps who spent the majority of the dungeon on the floor. Generally if you can break 30k, you also know how to position, and survive intuitively.

The rest I agree 100% with... In vet dungeons. That said, I do try to teach, especially if I see well meaning, willingness to listen. I don't like being thr on who kicks. .. But I have been brought to it. If an individual is the problem, regardless of multiple explanation, more often than not someone else initiates the vote - - but I can't always put that on someone else either.

Agenericname · July 2019

I suspect that we all play at different levels and have different thresholds. I PUG mostly the vet DLCs and infrequently base game vets. Odds are a little higher that you will meet someone that doesn't know, or perhaps just needs a little help with the mechanics. If it comes down it, I'll usually leave, barring someone being rude, but it rarely has.

Base game vets, aside from a couple of the 2s I cant think of any that someone's performance or lack of damage being a detriment that will prevent a clear in a timely manner. As long as they're not rude.

Normals, I'm not PUGing them. That's where all the mean people are.

Kel · July 2019

Most important thing for DPS to learn....

https://i.imgur.com/PsVIY3L.jpg

mocap · July 2019

depends.
If they ask about mechanics, which usually never happens lol, then teach. If not, then leave. Never kick.

SirAndy · July 2019

UGotBenched wrote: »

So, I was curious if your first response it to teach or kick when someone is holding a dungeon or trial run back?
I’ve been on both ends. I’m a returning player and I had an awesome pug group who helped me learn mechanics and I’ve had a pug group who never responded when I asked for advice and then kicked me last boss.
But, I felt good because I taught some new players some dungeon mechanics the other day to beat a boss.

Are we talking about pug groups here?

If so, i happily carry anyone who can't keep up. We've all been that person at some point ...

xeNNNNN · July 2019

Teach always. But there are limits, because some things and some fights will always require "some good" DPS at the very least to get past certain bosses quickly otherwise you're there for ages and thats usually followed by group wipes to something silly due to the duration of the fights. This is mostly concerning new players and DLC dungeons though. I am always happy to help people with mechanics and such in raids but again those people need to pick up whats being taught to them too if they dont its kinda...well....its a bit of a waste of time is it not?

Its all about the learning curves really and how people adapt to them so I can understand why some people just outright choose to leave but they should at least offer some reasonable and sensible advice first if they're experienced players.

DovahkiinHeart · July 2019

I think Fang Lair and SCP and CoS and RoM are the ones I have taught the most since they are a little more mechanics heavy if the dps isn't high. I've had a lot of good responses like people saying they all the past groups they've had just didn't know how to do the dungeon or they never actually got past a certain boss because no one would tell them what they needed to know.

As long as they are willing to follow directions and learn, teaching > kicking. Only kick if someone is being rude or toxic or if the particular dungeon requires a proper tank/taunt.

I recently ran a normal Wayrest I and someone voted to kick the tank who was actually a dps right from the start. On vet I might have considered if if they couldn't 'tank', but on normal? That's ridiculous. The vote didn't pass because the other two ppl also had enough common sense to look at the big picture.

Ryuuhime · July 2019

I always try to teach... the issue is more if they want to learn or not! I only kick if it's an ***, then he deserves the kick. Otherwise, they can be the biggest noobs, I'll try to put in the effort to make the run at least remotely successful.

Weesacs · July 2019

Depends on what they need help with. As long as they know their role then I'll continue to explain tactics. However if they haven't even grasped thier role then I'll leave.

For example I signed up to vMoS a while back and the group where stuck on the first boss. We tried it a couple of times but noticed the group was repeatedly being one shotted by the sword and board boss. I asked the tank to make sure he kept aggro and he said he was. Anyway another couple of tries and with us still wiping I asked him what skill he was using to taunt the boss ... his response was Power Slam O.o sometimes it's better just to leave 😂

Anhedonie · July 2019

If they want to listen and can use chat - I teach.
If they don't - I just carry.
I think I only had to kick 1 or 2 times, because that person didn't read chat, couldn't interrupt in critical moment and used frost staff heavy attacks.

worrallj · July 2019

Teach. A lot of the time I'm the one being taught. Only time I get tempted to kick is when a)they're also being jerks in one way or another, or b) hey're clearly too low level for the content and no matter how well we do the mechanics it's just not gonna happen.

But yeah even in those cases I usually like teaching more. It can be fun to be the most badass dude in the group and getting a fun little challenge out of a dungeon. And 9/10 they are so grateful to have someone show them the ropes and everyone actually has fun even though it goes super slow.

rothtwinsdad · July 2019

Teach if they listen (and have mic) or leave if they don't.

Navras · July 2019

If in a normal run I just move ahead and finish the dungeon silently. In vets I just leave

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2019

Aznarb wrote: »

Out of all the most impressive thing is the lack of basic knowledge, can be cp160 or 810+ I've saw lot of them.

Red circle ? Stay in and don't understand why he died.
Interrupt ? Nope
Break-free ? what is that ?
Active synergies ? What ?
Block heavy atk or fast casting aoe ? Nope
Dps who rez the dead ? Nope
Stay togheter ? Nope
Don't pull before Tank ? lel
Healer DPSing instead of heal ? Check
DPS with board and sword ? Check
Run away from healer when low hp ? Check
DPS checking number from addon instead of focus on mech ? Check
Looking at boss pattern ? Nope 99% of the player I've encounter or saw on Youtube don't look at or rely on a mod cuz they're lazy, and when mod fail, they fail..
Pretty funny when a big update come and add-on stop working.

I'm gonna be a bit rude here but : it's the 1st MMORPG where I see a big part of the community with such low skill.
I'm not blaming anyone, just saying.

Said this once already today. In most MMOs, the checklist is 1/10th that size. It's not that this playerbase is worse at gaming than say WOW, it's that the skill floor to be acceptable is much higher in ESO than WOW, because ESO is more complicated and difficult to play.

msalvia · July 2019

I don't want to be rude, but normal have severe lack of mechanics.i did nSS few days ago. The difference is disgusting in my opinion. You can literally learn nothing in normal

You can learn a lot in normal if you actually do the mechanics. However, most norm groups just faceroll and skip it all.

For example, I played nSS the other day and offered to do the end boss portals. They said "we don't need to, it's normal." That's the prevailing mindset of normal trials. It's not that you CAN'T learn mechanics, it's that most people choose not to. (for the record, 3/4 of that group wiped on the end boss while I did the portals anyway).

And for dungeons (not trials) it's even more the same--mechanics are basically the same, you just can't ignore them in normal.

My original point was just that people should do normal first to get an idea before trying vet (at least for DLCs). There's a correlation between not knowing basic mechanics and spamming light attacks through a dungeon. And depending on how much time I have, I may not feel like carrying / teaching someone without a basic understanding of the game.

msalvia · July 2019

I recently ran a normal Wayrest I and someone voted to kick the tank who was actually a dps right from the start. On vet I might have considered if if they couldn't 'tank', but on normal? That's ridiculous. The vote didn't pass because the other two ppl also had enough common sense to look at the big picture. [/quote]

I don't know about this, isn't jumping the queue kind of a crappy thing to do? You know that person (a dps) just wanted an instant queue (by fake tanking), so I'm not sure we should reward that kind of stuff. Try cutting a line IRL and see how that goes if you want an analogy.

And sure, we can handhold through norms and easy vets, but who has to time to babysit in vSCP?

Blackbird_V · July 2019

I carry them and tell them what they are doing wrong, plain and simple.

I'm not the type of special snowflake that kicks or leaves. Those people imo also have a l2play issue.

msalvia · July 2019

ANother way to think about this is that being kicked is a natural part of the learning the game.

ESO was my first MMO, so I learned this game really, really slowly. I totally sucked until at least cp300.

One day a tank in vDC2 politely said "guys, we probably don't have the dps for the end boss. If you want, friend me and I can give you some tips, or just google [don't remember exactly]." That was the first day I learned about what a rotation is, how to stack dots and spammables, what weaving is...basically, I had no clue how to dps until someone told me I was failing in my role IN A CONSTRUCTIVE WAY.

People learn through failure, and that includes being kicked/bailed on for not being ready for the content. As vets we need to do it constructively, but thinking that kicking someone is some kind of despicable attack is folly. People learn through failure. It's infinitely worse to be dishonest and give every 4k dps and tauntless tank a pat on the back.

msalvia · July 2019

Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »

I carry them and tell them what they are doing wrong, plain and simple.

I'm not the type of special snowflake that kicks or leaves. Those people imo also have a l2play issue.

Sounds like a learn to carry issue

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

"Hey, these trash pulls would be a lot easier if you used an AoE ability like Whirlwind."

"Screw you elitist, I play how I want!"

Blackbird_V · July 2019

msalvia wrote: »

Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »

I carry them and tell them what they are doing wrong, plain and simple.

I'm not the type of special snowflake that kicks or leaves. Those people imo also have a l2play issue.

Sounds like a learn to carry issue

Which technically is a learn to play

mobicera · July 2019

Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »

I carry them and tell them what they are doing wrong, plain and simple.

I'm not the type of special snowflake that kicks or leaves. Those people imo also have a l2play issue.

Please feel free to post a video of you carrying a tank through vdom...
They must not aggro stone watchers, at orb boss they can ignore adds and attack orbs, they don't stack adds in king nalimor fight, etc.
Kicks are simply needed at times if it's simply hopeless and kicks don't fly it's perfectly acceptable to leave.

Blinkin8r · July 2019

If it's normal I don't care. If it's vet and requires a decent team I just leave. Very rarely do I feel like teaching someone how to play a game where guides are abundant and all they need to do is ask Google.